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View Full Version : Bushnell reticle - Mil Dot or DOA 600 ? Which one to pick?


Martan
09-16-2010, 3:18 PM
IF anyone here has any experience with these two Bushnell reticles, would you add some input? I can't decide between these two. Seems like Mil Dot is not advisable for long distance (how long would that be?), DOA might have finer lines in cross-hair and perhaps easier range estimating feature?

I'm looking at Bushnell Elite 4.5-30x50 with one of those two.

Hoop
09-16-2010, 4:20 PM
What rifle is it going on? Also, I haven't heard a lot of good about the 4-30; I would look at the FFP 6-24 instead if you want to go bushnell.

Martan
09-16-2010, 4:34 PM
It's going on Remington 700 SPS Tactical. The reason I've been looking at that is the good lower limit at 4.5 and possibility to go all the way to 30. Also I've red good reviews , so I don't know. Some guys can't see the difference between this scope and others in this price range from other brands.
What bad have you heard about this scope?

Hoop
09-16-2010, 6:56 PM
Fuzzy at high power, lack of adjustment range. You don't need that much magnification either - I used to think you did but I see more at 1300 yards with my 18X IOR than with my 45X burris spotter just because the glass is that much better. If you want to go bushnell the FFP 4200 models are decent scopes (IIRC 700something for the 6-24 FFP in stock at libertyoptics, that's a good scope at that price range), and the 6-24 SFP is okay too. You could also look for a used IOR 3-18 or a USO 10x both can be had for around 1k which is not a whole lot more if you think about it.

Other good scopes to consider are the IOR 10X for 800 and the SS 10X HD for 800. If you email or call SWFA I bet they would loan you an HD just to try it out.

If you want to go cheaper, the super sniper 10X regular is 300 and the bushnell 10X mil mil is 200 on sale. Both are good fixed power scopes for cheap. Adjustable power "cheap" scopes I like are the nikons, I think you can get a new 6-18X for 300something. They have decent glass and work fairly well, and come with "target" turrets and mildot reticle if you want them. A used zeiss conquest is an option as well, they have wonderful glass but I don't really like the turrets or the rapid-Z reticles.

No matter what you get, know that a 308 will take 35-40 MOA to reach 1000 so if you want to shoot that far and purchase a variable high power scope you will also need a canted base.

CoyoteHunter555
09-16-2010, 8:30 PM
A buddy of mine has the DOA. For simple hunting, its cool but I like Mil Dots for everything

Martan
09-16-2010, 8:37 PM
Hm, I've red that some guys don't like the mil dot for longer range, what is your experience? Let's say beyond 500 yards, have you done any shooting at that range?
What do you mean by "simple hunting"? Do you think for more precise long range shooting DOA is not as good?

CoyoteHunter555
09-17-2010, 4:31 AM
Hm, I've red that some guys don't like the mil dot for longer range, what is your experience? Let's say beyond 500 yards, have you done any shooting at that range?
What do you mean by "simple hunting"? Do you think for more precise long range shooting DOA is not as good?

Many mil dot reticles are made too thick, getting in the way of the ever shrinking targets at further and further distances. There are much better BDC reticles out there (NF and Leupold and others - but you will pay for em) but mils are simple and I like them. I have taken mils out to 1000 SO FAR. The DOA is made for out to 600 yards

Hoop
09-17-2010, 9:31 AM
The mil reticle on my IOR is very thick but it has a floating center dot 1/4 MOA in size so the aiming point is very small. It is perfectly usable.

Sightron s3 scopes are another option - although they aren't mil mil they do have a following and I don't see many people badmouthing them.

You should find a local gunstore that has some tactical scopes in stock or go to a range on a long distance shooting day and check out what everyone is using. That will give you a chance to sit behind these various different scopes and see for yourself what you like and don't like.

rksimple
09-17-2010, 10:01 AM
Who said a mildot is not advisable for long distance? Whoever it was, stop listening to them. Get the mildot, learn to use it, and be happy. Come on out to a shoot when you get it and you'll learn how to use it effectively. caprc.com (http://caprc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=38)

Martan
09-17-2010, 10:10 AM
The mil reticle on my IOR is very thick but it has a floating center dot 1/4 MOA in size so the aiming point is very small. It is perfectly usable.

Sightron s3 scopes are another option - although they aren't mil mil they do have a following and I don't see many people badmouthing them.

You should find a local gunstore that has some tactical scopes in stock or go to a range on a long distance shooting day and check out what everyone is using. That will give you a chance to sit behind these various different scopes and see for yourself what you like and don't like.

Thanks for your opinion. I think it's going to have to come down to that. I'm trying to think what would be the best store in Bay Area to go to for the most variety. Cabela's in Reno is a little too far for that purpose. Any ideas? I'm in East bay, San Ramon.

Martan
09-17-2010, 10:18 AM
Who said a mildot is not advisable for long distance? Whoever it was, stop listening to them. Get the mildot, learn to use it, and be happy. Come on out to a shoot when you get it and you'll learn how to use it effectively. caprc.com (http://caprc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=38)


It was some web pages with reviews of riflescopes. I understand that I can't take everybody seriously, especially online when you don't know the guy, that's why I posted this thread here to find out more.
I'm inclined now to go for Bushnell Elite 6500 2.5-16x50 with mil dot, the price is just little over $700. I like the zoom range and 2.5 lower limit. And with the Bushnell warranty and return policy, I guess I cold still go some other way if I don't like it. There is so many scopes in this range that one can do research for months and still be undecided.
I have one question though. With 16x power, what would be the maximum distance I can make a precise hit on the paper target?
Thanks for the link to the club's website, I'll do some browsing there and see what it is about.

rksimple
09-17-2010, 10:27 AM
16x is enough for 1000 yards and beyond. I've taken my 260 to 1250 yards with a 3.5-15 Nightforce. In the price range you're looking, the Sightrons would also be good contenders. Take your pick.

Martan
09-17-2010, 10:33 AM
16x is enough for 1000 yards and beyond. I've taken my 260 to 1250 yards with a 3.5-15 Nightforce. In the price range you're looking, the Sightrons would also be good contenders. Take your pick.


Hm, Sightrons I haven't even looked at. Another brand to go through.....Is there anything specific you would recommend I could look at?

rksimple
09-17-2010, 10:55 AM
This Sightron would work well: http://swfa.com/Sightron-6-24x50-SIII-30mm-Riflescope-P9151.aspx

Most of the Bushnell 6500 offerings are pretty good as well. Conversely, you could always get something to start with like the Bushnell 3200 10x mildot or the Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14 for under 300 bucks. Learn how to use the scope well, learn how to drive the rifle, read the wind, etc., and save your pennies for a Nightforce...or a Schmidt, Hensodlt, etc.

RobG
09-17-2010, 11:12 AM
To confuse even further, the Vortex Viper line is a great scope for the money as well. 16x top end is a bunch of mag, I have never used more than 14x due to mirage. If you are willing to spend a few hours and road trip, CS Tactical in Elk Grove is about 90 mins from SR. They have a bunch of good glass, just call ahead to see what they have in stock.

Martan
09-17-2010, 11:35 AM
To confuse even further, the Vortex Viper line is a great scope for the money as well. 16x top end is a bunch of mag, I have never used more than 14x due to mirage. If you are willing to spend a few hours and road trip, CS Tactical in Elk Grove is about 90 mins from SR. They have a bunch of good glass, just call ahead to see what they have in stock.


Thanks for the advice. Here is my dilemma. I have Cabela's gift cards in $400 value, that's why I set my budget a little higher. The thing is they are little more pricey than other stores, but if I buy somewhere else, I have to pay the full price and gift cards stay untouched.
I was considering www.red-dot-scopes.com, somewhat new store, they have good prices, but still not good enough to sacrifice the value of gift cards.
Well, at some point I'll have to make a decision, the rifle is not here yet, I still have 2 more weeks or so.
Do you personally own Vortex Viper?
And I don't want to buy something cheap either, for that I could use my Leapers 3-9x50 that sits on my air rifle.

rksimple
09-17-2010, 12:22 PM
And I don't want to buy something cheap either, for that I could use my Leapers 3-9x50 that sits on my air rifle.

In this game, there's a difference between cheap and inexpensive. That Leapers would suck for what you want to do. The Bushnell 3200 10x is more reliable and repeatable than many scopes costing 2-3x what it does. At 200 bucks, its a killer deal. You'd learn more using that scope than say a Falcon that doesn't track nor hold zero. You'd be better off investing that Cabelas money into a reloading setup if you don't reload already.

Any of the above-mentioned scopes will perform well. Use that cabelas money and spend the rest on ammo and trigger time.

Hoop
09-17-2010, 1:22 PM
I have Cabela's gift cards in $400 value

I would spend that on ammo or a beginner reloading setup.

If you're just a beginner and have NO CLUE what to buy, get a 200 bushnell 10X or a super sniper 10X. Decent glass, they work well, and when you are done with it you can sell it on ebay for 60-75% of what you spent on it. I know people who have used those scopes for years and are completely satisfied with them just like I know people (like me) who bought one of them, used it for a few months and then traded up when I realized what it was that I REALLY wanted.

RobG
09-17-2010, 1:23 PM
Thanks for the advice. Here is my dilemma. I have Cabela's gift cards in $400 value, that's why I set my budget a little higher. The thing is they are little more pricey than other stores, but if I buy somewhere else, I have to pay the full price and gift cards stay untouched.
I was considering www.red-dot-scopes.com, somewhat new store, they have good prices, but still not good enough to sacrifice the value of gift cards.
Well, at some point I'll have to make a decision, the rifle is not here yet, I still have 2 more weeks or so.
Do you personally own Vortex Viper?
And I don't want to buy something cheap either, for that I could use my Leapers 3-9x50 that sits on my air rifle.

I do. Its the 6.5-20x50. Very good glass, tactile/repeatable adjustments, and so far 100% reliable. It is a mil-dot scope but has moa adjustments.

Like rk stated, inexpensive (Viper) and cheap (Leapers) are not the same thing. The Viper is in no way a Nightforce either. Just try and get the best glass your budget will allow.

tacticalcity
09-17-2010, 1:29 PM
Knowing how to use the mildot system is an important skillset. Not knowing how to use mildot is kind of like not knowing how to drive a stick shift. You can get by without that skillset 98% of your life. But sure enough, a time will come along when you need to know how to drive a stick, so you had better hope it is not an emergency or you are screwed.

Mildot is the standardized marksman reticle. Pick up a scoped military or law enforcment rifle and it is going to have mildot. Most former military guys and enthusiasts run mildot. So if you ever find yourself behind one of their rifles, you'll know how to take full advantage of it. That makes it a value added skillset. So when talking about long range scopes, if the mildot is an option I always get it. In fact, I almost always will not buy a scope without a mildot reticle.

Now, if we are talking about something for CQB, that is completely different.

Martan
09-17-2010, 1:38 PM
well, thank you all for your input, I'll sleep on it... reloading is another thing I've been thinking about, I wonder how many pieces of reloaded ammo it takes to have a cost return of reloading equipment

Martan
09-17-2010, 2:00 PM
Knowing how to use the mildot system is an important skillset. Not knowing how to use mildot is kind of like not knowing how to drive a stick shift.

That's my mentality as well, I was born and grew up on stick shift and never owned a car without it :-) .
When I get into it and spend some real money on it, I'll want to know as much about it as I can, I think this post made me positive on mil dot. Now it's a matter of scope brand and then rings and mount.

Martan
09-17-2010, 2:14 PM
You'd be better off investing that Cabelas money into a reloading setup if you don't reload already.

Any of the above-mentioned scopes will perform well. Use that cabelas money and spend the rest on ammo and trigger time.

What do you think about rangefinders? I could use Cabela's cards for a nice range finder, is it something really necessary? Or just a nice gadget to have? I guess it must be useful especially for people that don't have very good distance estimating skill.

rksimple
09-17-2010, 3:33 PM
If you're shooting long range anywhere except a known distance range, a rangefinder is essential. I dont care how good you are at estimating or milling. Once you pass 6-700 yards, as little as a 25 yard error will result in a miss.

Martan
09-17-2010, 3:44 PM
I dont care how good you are at estimating or milling. Once you pass 6-700 yards, as little as a 25 yard error will result in a miss.

You're right, another gadget on the list....
Thank you, your posts are really helpful.