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View Full Version : Need a Safety? Bear with me for a second.


TKM
05-17-2006, 9:50 PM
Aside from the inevitable hue and cry from the blissninnies, is there really any reason to use an SRB?


I've been looking at cut down pistol grips and homemade devices designed to retain the safety detent. There are arguments for and against both. What I'm wondering is, is there a legal downside to just leaving the hole empty?

The best safety being between the ears etc.,etc..

I'm interested in what you guys think. Is there something painfully obvious that I'm missing?

(Just got a Grizzly, sorry about the unintended pun)

shopkeep
05-17-2006, 9:57 PM
Personally I like the new duct tape method I've been seeing recently. You use a peice of grey duct tape to hold in the spring.

Pthfndr
05-17-2006, 10:18 PM
Ever hear of a "brain fart". Don't think it can't happen to you. Or to someone who picks up your firearm after you've gone and left a round chambered. I've seen it happen.

FWIW, I agree, the best "safety" is the one between the ears. But backup never hurts. If I'm at a range and I'm not using my rifle, the safety is on. Just in case.

blkA4alb
05-17-2006, 10:37 PM
FWIW, I agree, the best "safety" is the one between the ears. But backup never hurts. If I'm at a range and I'm not using my rifle, the safety is on. Just in case.
I'm sorry but I would not rely on leaving the safety on and a round in the chamber at a range. Do you actually leave your guns on the bench loaded with one in the chamber but the safety on?? :confused: :confused: I can't believe that...

EDIT: To clarify, you cant have the safety on when its unloaded, implying you leave it loaded.

Pthfndr
05-17-2006, 11:00 PM
I'm sorry but I would not rely on leaving the safety on and a round in the chamber at a range. Do you actually leave your guns on the bench loaded with one in the chamber but the safety on?? :confused: :confused: I can't believe that...

Is that actually what you thought I meant? I NEVER leave a firearm unattended with a round in the chamber. Safety or no safety. That's a disaster waiting for a time to happen.

The reason I put the safety on when the firearm in unattended is because it's not within my immediate reach and some other person might pick it up and commit a "brain fart". You'd be AMAZED at the number of people who are capable of chamberng a round and pulling a trigger but have no idea how to disengage a safety. Even on their own gun :rolleyes:

Pthfndr
05-17-2006, 11:02 PM
EDIT: To clarify, you cant have the safety on when its unloaded....

What makes you think that? Any time the hammer is cocked the safety can be on. Whether there's a round in it or not. That's true of every firearm I own. And own a lot of widely different firearms.

jerryg1776
05-17-2006, 11:02 PM
I'm sorry but I would not rely on leaving the safety on and a round in the chamber at a range. Do you actually leave your guns on the bench loaded with one in the chamber but the safety on?? :confused: :confused: I can't believe that...

EDIT: To clarify, you cant have the safety on when its unloaded, implying you leave it loaded.

You can safety many weapons that are unloaded. How do you figure you can only safety a loaded weapon?

blkA4alb
05-17-2006, 11:46 PM
You can safety many weapons that are unloaded. How do you figure you can only safety a loaded weapon?
I know that, this specific discussion was pertaining to ARs and not enabling the safety by removing the pistol grip and detent. I was under the impression that was what we were still discussing, not guns in general.

blkA4alb
05-17-2006, 11:48 PM
What makes you think that? Any time the hammer is cocked the safety can be on. Whether there's a round in it or not. That's true of every firearm I own. And own a lot of widely different firearms.
To the best of my reasoning, people generally don't leave the hammer cocked without a round in the chamber, its not something that at least I am in the habit of doing.

BTW: No ill intentions or feelings here :) .

coolguy
05-18-2006, 12:05 AM
sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet

Pthfndr
05-18-2006, 12:59 AM
To the best of my reasoning, people generally don't leave the hammer cocked without a round in the chamber, its not something that at least I am in the habit of doing.

BTW: No ill intentions or feelings here :) .

If you lock the bolt open on an AR, the hammer is cocked. If you go to a public range, during a cease fire most, if not all of them will say to open the bolt. At most public ranges if you put your rifle in the rack the bolt must be left open so any line RO can see that it is unloaded and empty. AR, Bolt gun, anything.

On an AR if the bolt is held open with the bolt catch and the mag is removed, if you were to hit the bottom of the butt stock the bolt can bounce closed. If a live round happened to be in the chamber (for what ever reason) the rifle is capable of firing it. In the service it's a common prank to walk up behind someone whose bolt is open and smack the butt causing the bolt to slam closed.

In High Power competition when a rifle is removed from the line (any rifle) it has to have a Empty Chamber Indicator - ECI - in it first. Safety rule for "just in case".

In IDPA pistol matches, after a shooter completes his/her string of fire, the RO checks to make sure the mag is empty, the chamber is empty, and then the competitor must close the slide/bolt and DROP THE HAMMER to make sure the gun is safe.

Ever see an extractor fail on a rifle and leave a live round in the chamber? At one range I frequent it happened to a guy when a cease fire was called. Instead of firing off the round he opened the bolt, neglected to notice LIVE round failed to extract. He decided to call it a day at that point. When he went to put his rifle in the case he closed his bolt and pulled the trigger. Whether on purpose or accident I don't know. BUT, his rifle was already laying in it's case when the round went off. Fortunately the case was on the bench and pointing down range. The case flew out onto the range :eek:

It's all just safety precautions. NDs happen. It's not a matter of if, but when.

No ill intentions taken.

Oh, and FWIW, my .50 BMG rifle has no safety. It was made that way. You can bet I'm REALLY careful to make sure it's unloaded before I remove it from a firing position.

TKM
05-20-2006, 2:00 PM
I started this thread after reading about someone who didn't worry about the safety detent spring because he had a JP trigger. I didn't realize that he wasn't just freeballing it (as it were).

It seems that the JP drop in unit (temporarily out of stock) uses a different approach re the safety.

Of course I may just be completely FITH but I have to go do some more research before I start skipping any safety measures.

onley11
06-20-2006, 12:23 AM
Meh, the safety is the little part in the triggerguard that touches the hammer and disconnecter. I thought about glocking it with the ar (no safety) but the main issues are you just put two HUGE holes in the reciever to suck in dirt, and I don't need the kind of attention it would attract. A lot of people forget safetys were developed for condition one carry and will freak if they see your rifle safetyless. Safetys are of vital importance if you have your chamber filled and need to walk around that way, say digging a fighting hole or on patrol. My house gun has it's safety on all the time, cause there's a cartridge in the chamber.

And in regards to nd's, they can happen. Most people who shoot for a lifetime, or carry a gun like they carry a wallet, will screw up clearing the gun once after a long day. And that's why you inspect the chamber and ammuntion source (empty magwell/no ammo belt/empty magazine tube/empty cylinder,etc.), and point the gun in a SAFE direction and drop the hammer on a hopefully empty chamber. That is your failsafe. If you screwed up somewhere, you will know. In a big way. I like clearing towards dirt, safes, and concrete. Walls and TV's are poor choices.

Again, nd once, shame on you, don't forget what you done. Nd twice, sell your guns and go away. The first time should'a been a life altering experience.