View Full Version : Part 2

05-17-2006, 6:08 PM
Hello Everybody....:)

I joined the SKS forum many mentioned here.... only to be totally more confused, anyhow here's what people have said and helped me with:


So I guess the pistol grip/collapsable stock is just TOO much drama.... what about a dragunov stock...? :confused:

Just an idea:
Is there any lawyer that for a small fee can give me straight answers and write up a letter so I can carry with me incase (if I do a stock change) can explain anything to law enforcement....? :confused:

Thanks for all your help everyone...and I'm sorry for all the dumb questions, I'm just confused. :(


glen avon
05-17-2006, 6:14 PM
Is there any lawyer


that for a small fee


can give me straight answers


and write up a letter ....


but cops won't care a hoot for a letter from a lawyer. save your money.

05-17-2006, 8:29 PM
Its pretty simple, no matter what you change, your sks cannot have a detachable magazine. No matter what.

What happens is when you change the stock from anything stock, even a monte carlo (im pretty sure) it loses its C&R status. Therefore being a federally illegal foreign imported firearm. To make it legal you have to change enough parts out for it to qualify as domestically made. It is not dependant on the number of U.S. parts but the number of imported parts. I believe the number is 5, I'm sure someone else here is positive.

If you replaced the parts to make it "domestic" you can put lets say the new Tapco stock/pistol grip on it. If I missed anything here guys feel free to correct me as I'm doing this off memory and not looking at the actual law.

05-18-2006, 5:20 PM

Okay.... I got a response from the government... Is there anyone here on the forum that is willing to talk to me over the phone...? My e-mail address at home is black9c1@sbcglobal.net we can exchange numbers there.... it would be GREATLY appreciated it.

Anyhow...read below.....check this out:

From: EPS Directorate [mailto:EPS@atf.gov]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 1:41 PM
To: Jesse Nunez
Subject: NUNEZ

Thank you for visiting ATF's Website. As stated on our site, generally, we do not answer technical questions via e-mail, but I contacted our Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) and was advised the following:

"Modifications to Imported SKS and AK Type Rifles

ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) received many letters asking about the legality of making modifications to imported semi-automatic rifles and shotguns. Generally, it is illegal to modify your SKS to incorporate a pistol grip.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), 18 U.S.C. Section 922(r), specifically states the following:

It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under the Section 925(d)(3)…as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes…

Also, 27 C.F.R. Section 478.39 (formerly 178.39) states—

“…(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purpose…..

(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:

(1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or (2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the provisions of[§478.151(formerly 178.151)]; or (3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the replacement of any part of such firearm.

(c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts [tabulated below] are:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver

castings, forgings, or castings.

(2) Barrels.

(3) Barrel extensions.

(4) Mounting blocks (trunnions).

(5) Muzzle attachments.

(6) Bolts.

(7) Bolt carriers.

(8) Operating rods.

(9) Gas pistons.

(10) Trigger housings.

(11) Triggers.

(12) Hammers.

(13) Sears.

(14) Disconnectors.

(15) Buttstocks.

(16) Pistol grips.

(17) Forearms, handguards.

(18) Magazine bodies.

(19) Followers.

(20) Floor plates.

As a result of a 1989 study by the U.S. Treasury Department regarding the importability of certain firearms, an import ban was placed on military-style firearms. This ban included not only military-type firearms, but also extended to firearms with certain features that were considered to be “nonsporting.” Among such nonsporting features were the ability to accept a detachable magazine, folding/telescoping stocks, separate pistol grips, ability to accept a bayonet, flash suppressors, bipods, grenade launchers, and night sights. The exception for this criteria is curios and relics in their original military configuration i.e. the Yugoslavian SKS 59/66. Yugoslavian SKS 59/66 rifles can be modified by removing offending features (as in the State of California) but not adding features.

Determinations regarding the suitability for sporting purposes are made on a case-by-case base and often will require review by the Firearms Technology Branch. Rifles that are prohibited from importations include:

Semiautomatic versions of machineguns
Rifles chambered to accept a centerfire cartridge case having a length of 2.25 inches or less (includes .223 and 7.62 X 39); AND
Rifles that have the ability to accept a detachable large capacity magazine originally designed and produced for a military assault rifle or be easily modified to accept such a magazine with only minor adjustments to the rifle.

Non-sporting features may be removed from SKS and AK type rifles without violating 922(r), i.e. bayonet, bayonet lug, bipod, grenade launcher, flash suppressor, and night sight. Any additions to SKS and AK type rifles would make them nonsporting firearms that would be in violation of 922(r). These additions include: replacing the thumbhole stock with a pistol grip and military style stock and/or modifying the firearm to accept a high capacity magazine.

In order to modify SKS or AK type rifles and avoid any violations of 922(r), you will have to replace the foreign parts, except for 10, with U.S.-made parts. As previously stated, no more than 10 of the above 20 foreign parts can be installed after the modification”

If you have any further questions, please call them on 304-260-1700. Regards,

From: Webmaster
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 8:02 AM
To: EPS Directorate
Subject: FW:

From: Jesse Nunez
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 6:01 PM
To: Webmaster

I have a Yugo SKS and I want to install a pistol grip/collapsible stock like the image below...(I hate the wooden stock it came with).... anyhow, I asked a Sheriff at the Lomita, CA Sheriff station (Officer D.Williams 310-539-1661)... he told me "as long as the 10 round magazine is pinned (non-detachable), the muzzle brake/flash suppressor is welded(non removable) and over all length 26 inches(from top to bottom), your okay"..... Is this true....?

Can you directed me somewhere so I can print this out and carry it with me as to NOT get in trouble if pulled over on the way to or from a firing range....? Also the over all 26 inch is this with the stock fully collapsed or extended....?

Thank You,
Jesse Nunez

05-18-2006, 6:02 PM
They basically just said the same thing everyone else is saying, except verbatim to the law with all the legal mumbo jumbo.

More or less, you can NOT change anything on your rifle if it's imported. Period. Imported does NOT mean a rifle that was brought in whole, but a rifle that is manufactured with more than 10 imported parts. You could then, in theory, have an imported AR-15 with a Colt receiver. The reason this get difficult is because sporting firearms were allowed to be imported, complete, from other countries. These firearms, like your Yugoslavian SKS, have MORE than 10 imported parts; however they are still legal because they were imported as sporting firearms.

Now this is where you are getting a headache. Do NOT listen to all the "You can't without violating..." talk that the ATF sent you. YES that is true, but that is confussing. By replacing the stock you have created a non-sporting firearm. This then negates the immunity it has from the 10 part rule. So YES, putting the pistol grip stock on the SKS and doing nothing else is illegal; there are still legal ways to do it. What you would need to do is replace as many parts as needed to make it ATF legal (922r).

What you need to do is get a list of all recognized parts on the SKS. Someone on the link you posted said there was a list posted somewhere. Go get that.

Now, go online and search your heart out. Replacing the magazine is three parts; that should be your first place to look. The stock is another good thing (especially on the AK as it counts for two parts). Trigger group is also something to look into as it counts for 3-4 parts. Obviously some parts you don't want to change, like the receiver and barrel. Once you have figured out what parts are available, if at all. Once you have gotten a total or parts that has less than 10 of the original parts, then you order. Once you have all the parts (and not a secon sooner), strip the rifle and put it all together with the US made parts. After that, you can sell the extras to someone and you have a fully legal (both with CA and the ATF) non-sporting SKS rifle.

I too have been looking into it, but funds have prevented me from looking into it seriously. Good luck with it, be safe, and legal.

ETA: The sporting firearm thing is made for hunting rifles. Think of Beretta and the really nice shotguns they have. The ATF still recognizes those firearms as having legitimate purposes, but on the same token they realize that shotguns like those made by Benelli are most often used in a non-sporting manner (like defense or police/military). So they put up a definition of what is sporting and what isn't; and the beloved pistol grip is one of the things that makes a longgun a non-sporting firearm.

05-19-2006, 1:35 PM
Look! Your Yugo is a C&R rifle. This is why it can be brought into the U.S.
Because of the granade launcher being a destructive device in Kalifornia, BATF looked the other way and allowed the modification of the GL (granade launcher) so we could have them in this state.
To modify a C&R weapon, violates the status and it then is subject to FED law 922(r). Why they let us get away with the GL, I don't know, BUT BATF still considers the Yugo 59/66 a C&R weapon
You cannot add "non-sporting" features (pistol grip, bayonet lug, nightsights. ect, ect) to a foreign made or assembled weapon, BUT YOU CAN TO A U.S.A. MADE WEAPON

You want to change the stock, you have to make have 10 or less of the following foreign parts on you SKS

Note: fp = Foreign part
c) The term imported parts [tabulated below] are:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings, or castings. No USA replacement fp#1

(2) Barrels. No USA replacement fp#2

(3) Barrel extensions. No USA replacement fp#3

(4) Mounting blocks (trunnions). Not on a SKS

(5) Muzzle attachments. There are US replacements

(6) Bolts. No USA replacement fp#4

(7) Bolt carriers. No USA replacement fp#5

(8) Operating rods. Tapco

(9) Gas pistons. Tapco

(10) Trigger housings. No USA replacement fp#6

(11) Triggers. No USA replacement fp#7

(12) Hammers. No USA replacement fp#8

(13) Sears. No USA replacement fp#9

(14) Disconnectors. Not on a SKS

(15) Buttstocks. Tapco, ATI, Fiberforce

(16) Pistol grips. Tapco, ATI, Fiberforce

(17) Forearms, handguards. Tapco, ATI, Fiberforce

(18) Magazine bodies. CDNN

(19) Followers. CDNN

(20) Floor plates. CDNN

Replace the parts in green and you have just made a U.S.A. made SKS!


1. U.S.A. made weapon is NOT SUBJECT TO 922(R) FED Law

2. You CAN have "Evil" features on a center fired rifle WITH a Non-detatchable magazine Kali LAW.

I hope this clears things up.

05-20-2006, 12:29 PM
Are we okay with a "Dragunov" type stock on our SKS's....here in California ? :confused:

I'm going the safer route... I want to do the "Dragunov" stock and remove the bayonet and the lug also....is this okay...?


05-20-2006, 3:29 PM
Are we okay with a "Dragunov" type stock on our SKS's....here in California ? :confused:

I'm going the safer route... I want to do the "Dragunov" stock and remove the bayonet and the lug also....is this okay...?

I don't know how many times we have to repeat the same things we have been saying. Re-read what ALL the posts above this say. You cannot change the stock without playing the U.S. parts game. No, do not just add the dragunov, it is no "safer" than the tapco one. Bayonet lugs have nothing to do with anything since the federal ban expired...

05-20-2006, 4:50 PM
I'm sorry about the multiple post..... I decided to just relax....take a deep breath and build an M4 :D

On a serious note... these gun laws are really, really stupid, they don't make sense,and just totally out dated.... you know we (California) have it bad when even law enforcement don't know what the hell to do..... ;)

But, I want to Thank everyone who came to my aid.. :)