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View Full Version : Stag or BCM upper? What do you prefer?


vicb
09-12-2010, 11:40 AM
Ok, I have narrowed down my options... I am looking for nothing more than a decent 16' M4 complete upper to slap on my JD lower. I am also considering a Spikes LE and the $335 JSE built special.

What do you guys think?

danieldangz
09-12-2010, 11:56 AM
I prefer BCM upper. I just put one on my JD lower

RaiderNation
09-12-2010, 12:06 PM
BCM all the way. You will get a properly staked BCG.

Sick Boy
09-12-2010, 12:13 PM
BCM for sure!

A 14.5" mid-length upper is my next build.

God Bless The Mauser
09-12-2010, 12:22 PM
BCM! I got the 14.5" carbine and I'm already planning a 20" rifle and 14.5" midlength.

U5512
09-12-2010, 12:26 PM
....."Professional Grade Weaponry, by BCM™"......

I don't think you can be more explicit than that!!!:D


.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .......................
http://i884.photobucket.com/albums/ac47/U5512/AR15/Picture1204.jpg

bender152
09-12-2010, 12:27 PM
What? Really?!

That's like asking if I should buy a Mercedes (BCM) or Honda (Stag). Nothing wrong with either, but BCM is a step above.

professorhard
09-12-2010, 12:28 PM
BCM baby, Stag doesn't even compare

I love my BCM 14.5 middy w/DD lite 12.0 rail and PWS comp. Probably my favorite AR or maybe even gun that I own.

Josh3239
09-12-2010, 12:29 PM
BCM for sure. Every single one is produced properly, Stag cannot say that.

ArkinDomino
09-12-2010, 12:54 PM
BCM FTW.

By the way,

Stag can't be compared to Hondas because Hondas, above all, are reliable and have a lot of value considering their cost. That cannot be said about Stag. :D

Twinspool
09-12-2010, 1:00 PM
Geez, buncha Stag haters here. I guess photos of my perfectly fine 0.5 MOA rifle or it's properly staked gas key wouldn't be appreciated.

You do know that Mercedes only does MPI testing on batches of their con rods don't you? ZOMG Benz is teh suck!

professorhard
09-12-2010, 1:03 PM
Geez, buncha Stag haters here. I guess photos of my perfectly fine 0.5 MOA rifle or it's properly staked gas key wouldn't be appreciated.

You do know that Mercedes only does MPI testing on batches of their con rods don't you? ZOMG Benz is teh suck!

Good for you, sounds like you like your Stag and theres nothing wrong with that.

OP simply asked what we prefer, and the obvious choice by the majority of people is BCM.

Ganner
09-12-2010, 1:36 PM
BCM all the way. You will get a properly staked BCG.

+1...:cool:

Packy14
09-12-2010, 1:46 PM
BCM

maxima
09-12-2010, 2:57 PM
From spec perspective, BCM looks more attractive, just wonder if anybody had the chance to do side by side comparison, using factory new BCMs and Stags with live ammo (e.g. 5000rd various rounds/each gun, and get the accuracy/group fact and stoppages) to have a substantial result and to be a little bit fair to convince people which one is better.

Josh3239
09-12-2010, 3:08 PM
Stop getting defensive. No one is hating on Stag, it is just largely understood on in the AR community that there is a different level of quality. The hardest place ARs are run in the civilian world are in carbine classes, Stags are minorities there and the BCM are one of the top dogs and it is for good reason. Sure CMT supplies the military but everything the military gets from CMT is made to spec, not everything Stag sells to the rest of us joes are made to spec.

Honestly, I could care less what Mercedes does. Malfunctions and parts breakage will happen but we can reduce the frequency and there is overwhelming evidence that proper staking and MPI testing for instance, does dramatically reduce these failures. It wasn't that long ago that the ABC manufacturers were considered the top dogs, now of the ABCs only Colt stands for serious civilian use and/or military use. Not everything is made equally. Your Stag does the job or has good staking? Congrats, I hope it works well for you. But your lucky, not every Stag is made to that quality. And for the record, AR quality has nothing to do with the finish or how small your groups are.

Geez, buncha Stag haters here. I guess photos of my perfectly fine 0.5 MOA rifle or it's properly staked gas key wouldn't be appreciated.

You do know that Mercedes only does MPI testing on batches of their con rods don't you? ZOMG Benz is teh suck!

nagorb
09-12-2010, 3:22 PM
From spec perspective, BCM looks more attractive, just wonder if anybody had the chance to do side by side comparison, using factory new BCMs and Stags with live ammo (e.g. 5000rd various rounds/each gun, and get the accuracy/group fact and stoppages) to have a substantial result and to be a little bit fair to convince people which one is better.

Not a side to side comparison but
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html

My BCM has about 1500 rds through it without a single failure and I've only cleaned it twice, once when I first got it and about 200-300 rds later.

I would go with the midlength over the carbine gas sys.

EDIT: BCM uppers are barely any more $

wash
09-12-2010, 3:25 PM
I would choose a Daniel Defense or Spikes over BCM because BCM won't sell magazines or magazine parts kits to Californians.

Beside that, their product is top notch.

ren
09-12-2010, 3:31 PM
eh, I'll join the minority group. I bought a stag 2h upper and have no complaints with 1k rounds through mine.

NiteQwill
09-12-2010, 5:28 PM
Why? Because you get an outstanding product with outstanding support, backed by industry proven quality control.

Not many companies even come close, and for the price, no one even touches them with a 100 ft pole.

I rest my case. ;)
http://www.sk8ng.com/dusty/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/IMG_4956.JPG

gun toting monkeyboy
09-12-2010, 6:04 PM
Yeah, I'll have to go with BCM on this one. There is nothing wrong with Stag. They are decent guns. And while that comparison chart is a little dated, it still shows how much more you get with a BCM vs. just about anything else on there. With the sales that BCM has been running lately, you end up getting a lot more value for your money. You can get a Stag, and it will probably serve you just fine. But you would still be better off getting a BCM.

C_1
09-12-2010, 6:21 PM
BCM FTW :)

danieldangz
09-12-2010, 7:34 PM
BCM do sell the complete lower to CA from the third party (G&R Tactical), but they don't sell part kits though...

I have to build my lower with Stag lower part kit to go with my BCM midlength upper though...

I would choose a Daniel Defense or Spikes over BCM because BCM won't sell magazines or magazine parts kits to Californians.

Beside that, their product is top notch.

oddball
09-12-2010, 8:19 PM
BCM, no doubt.
Their hardware and CS are second to none.

evidens83
09-12-2010, 8:22 PM
BCM!!

stitchnicklas
09-12-2010, 8:24 PM
i love my stag 3h

killshot44
09-12-2010, 8:32 PM
You'll never convince the window-lickers who bought BCM that ANY other maker's ARs are as good. They're as bad as the Magpul fanboys.

Whatever... I'll let 'em yak about their awesomely staked carrier keys and watch 'em give you a link to the infamous "chart"....

I guess every Stag I've had and Stag owner I've shot with just got "lucky, since not every Stag is made to that quality"...........
That includes you, Twinspool, with your (proven at 800yds) Stag Varminter...;)

And since "AR quality has nothing to do with the finish or how small your groups are" I guess I won't.....wait a minute; WTF?

Fit & finish and accuracy aren't important? I thought people shot BCM guns, hmmm maybe they just use 'em for this?

http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab348/Killshot44_bucket/AR15PooperScooper.jpg

NiteQwill
09-12-2010, 8:39 PM
You'll never convince the window-lickers who bought BCM that ANY other maker's ARs are as good. They're as bad as the Magpul fanboys.

Whatever... I'll let 'em yak about their awesomely staked carrier keys and watch 'em give you a link to the infamous "chart"....

I guess every Stag I've had and Stag owner I've shot with just got "lucky, since not every Stag is made to that quality"...........
That includes you, Twinspool, with your (proven at 800yds) Stag Varminter...;)

And since "AR quality has nothing to do with the finish or how small your groups are" I guess I won't.....wait a minute; WTF?

Fit & finish and accuracy aren't important? I thought people shot BCM guns, hmmm maybe they just use 'em for this?

http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab348/Killshot44_bucket/AR15PooperScooper.jpg
Instead of the banter, couldn't you have just said "get a stag?"

If you want a rifle built to spec: BCM + a company that will do no-cost service to your for the lifetime of their products. Otherwise, get a Stag + their so-so customer service.

fusionstar
09-12-2010, 9:06 PM
BCM, Professional Grade Weaponry.
Stag, neighhhhhhhhhhhh im a deer.

Stags are good.. but not as good as BCM

818gtiguy
09-12-2010, 9:09 PM
BCM, Professional Grade Weaponry.
Stag, neighhhhhhhhhhhh im a deer.

Stags are good.. but not as good as BCM

LOL!
+1 for BCM

bender152
09-12-2010, 9:22 PM
BCM, Professional Grade Weaponry.
Stag, neighhhhhhhhhhhh im a deer.


:rofl2:

orangeglo
09-12-2010, 9:25 PM
BCM > Stag.

But I still vote for riflegear uppers. Riflegear upper will adorn my next build.

gmcal
09-12-2010, 9:35 PM
So if you buy a BCM you're a window licker? Wow. How are you any better than the "fanboys" with comments like that? Can you please intelligently explain why you think he should choose stag?

OP, if they are both within your budget go with BCM. BCM has posted more detail regarding their specs, materials, and QC processes than any other manufacturer that I have seen.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=55930

nagorb
09-12-2010, 9:51 PM
you can get a complete BCM upper for a little over $500 cheapest on stags site was $465. I'm sure you could find a stage for cheaper but why?

tomd1584
09-12-2010, 10:03 PM
You'll never convince the window-lickers who bought BCM that ANY other maker's ARs are as good. They're as bad as the Magpul fanboys.

Not true at all. LMT and KAC are just as good. Daniel Defense too.


No one is saying that Stag aren't good, they're just not on the same level as these top tier MFGS; thats OK, but for the minimal price difference you can jump from Stag to BCM, LMT or DD and rest assured you bought one of the best.

bobfried
09-12-2010, 10:29 PM
People out there that shoots a **** load of rounds through all kind of conditions choose BCM.

Stag's are great, they were the ones I would recommend a few years ago if someone said they wanted a complete upper with decent/good quality for around $500.

But now BCM can be had for the same price and I would only recommend BCM. For the price BCM is hands down the best value for the money bar none. No one even comes close and once you build 20-30+ AR's you will know this.

That said I use Noveske and Larue products more, but I have BCM's in my past and present, they are not the best by any means. But for a "starter" rifle you are getting something that only a mil-spec Colt/LMT upper can compare to. Anything better and your stepping up to the semi-custom builders and manufacturers.

Which is why BCM is amazing. For the quality that you get, the price means you can beat it to hell and back and yet make no compromise in quality.

RT13
09-12-2010, 11:10 PM
BCM BFH Uppers ftw. Stag makes decent uppers but, I'd be surprised if anyone chose a Stag over a BCM. Quality for the money, the BCM is unmatched. My first choice is BCM followed by LMT and Daniel Defense.

UserM4
09-12-2010, 11:51 PM
BCM is good but to downplay other brands without empirical failure data is absurd. Don't listen to fanboys and search out facts. I've never ran across a Stag exhibiting catastrophic failure. That would place them right up there with BCM no matter the chart profile.

Alaric
09-12-2010, 11:59 PM
Stag, neighhhhhhhhhhhh im a deer.

Ok there city slicker, you do know that deer don't neigh right? Them's are horsies you're thinking of there feller.
...
Both are ok. If you want real quality get a Noveske.

ArkinDomino
09-13-2010, 12:14 AM
BCM is good but to downplay other brands without empirical failure data is absurd. Don't listen to fanboys and search out facts. I've never ran across a Stag exhibiting catastrophic failure. That would place them right up there with BCM no matter the chart profile.

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/jcrew2/Denial.png

UserM4
09-13-2010, 12:15 AM
Yeah, too bad I don't own a Stag. And I'm still waiting on that empirical data.

Ed_Hazard
09-13-2010, 12:31 AM
Well I bought the Stag upper when I updated my RAW ar's as I was not to happy looking at shelling out $1000+ per upper to Bedrock Industries as at the time they were/are the only LH Noveske upper dealers. Did I mention I shoot rifles LH.:D

Never had any issuaes w/my Stag uppers, and I own 6 currently. But I am not a high speed low drag operator who's life depends on his gear. I will probably put as many rounds through all six of my rifles over their lifetimes as most people will do over a couple of carbine classes.

When it comes to gear questions I heed the old saying of run whatya brung.:thumbsup:

Ed_Hazard
09-13-2010, 12:32 AM
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/jcrew2/Denial.png


This is funny though...:D

freonr22
09-13-2010, 4:41 AM
LMT is just about the same as BCM (not withstanding chf)

nikonuser
09-13-2010, 6:22 AM
I love my STAG but I bought it when I was still a noob and did not know much on how to customize an AR. BCM offers way more options and different models. I believe STAG does not even offer 14.5 uppers.

gmcal
09-13-2010, 7:45 AM
IMO, most don't believe stag sucks, or that BCM is better than LMT, it's that for a little more money you can have a rifle tested to a higher standard than stag. And you can save $100 or more by buying a BCM, which is comparable on quality to LMT. From my own observations that's why people are so enthusiastic about BCM. With their summer sale right now stag and BCM are very close in price.

Calmacs
09-13-2010, 10:42 AM
Rock River has a special feel to me

Killawhale415
09-13-2010, 12:35 PM
with BCM's sale right now you can get an upper with the BCG and charging handle added and only pay a few more dollars over a stag.

DDRH
09-13-2010, 12:38 PM
BCM, higher quality material and HP and MP tested...

jak77
09-13-2010, 3:12 PM
well youve heard it many times, but ill say it anyway. BCM. Nothing wrong with stag, but if those two are your options, BCM IS a cut above, no doubt. If you were trying to go a cheaper route, stag would be perfectly fine, but between those two, BCM takes the cake.

TonyMang_89
09-13-2010, 3:35 PM
BCM
Love my 16" middy

vicb
09-15-2010, 5:50 AM
I spoke to an AR gunsmith who is a fromer Navy Seal Armorer. He told me the upper itself is only the box were the BCG goes back in forth in. All you really need is high quality BCG and a good chrome moly barrel... And you should be good to go. He makes uppers and lowers for many high quality names...

C_1
09-15-2010, 7:45 AM
Its true, the BCG and barrel, are 2 parts that you definitely dont want to skimp out on. But like others have said, especially with the sale BCM is having, its easy to pick that over the Stag.

NiteQwill
09-15-2010, 8:25 AM
I spoke to an AR gunsmith who is a fromer Navy Seal Armorer. He told me the upper itself is only the box were the BCG goes back in forth in. All you really need is high quality BCG and a good chrome moly barrel... And you should be good to go. He makes uppers and lowers for many high quality names...

Everything comes into play on the upper. Not just a BCG, barrel, etc. All things must be considered... Milspec dimensions & fitting, headspacing, gas tube diameter and length, exterior finish, muzzle timing, etc...

ALL of it.

There is a difference between companies who get by and those who spend the time to make sure it's right the first time.

17+1
09-15-2010, 8:53 AM
BCM, higher quality material and HP and MP tested...

The barrel on my wifes Stag upper is marked MP...

The CMT (Stag) bolt is also MPI...you can even pay $10 extra for that when ordering one on the BCM site:

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/CMT-AR15-Semi-MPI-Bolt-Carrier-Group-p/bcg-cmt-mp-ar15.htm

As for 'higher quality material', please provide your source on that.

FYI, BCM doesn't make their own parts, they contract a manufacturer to do it for them, whereas Stag (CMT) has their own machine shop.

BCM is the flavor of the month, IMO, but there are many other good AR manufacturers out there. For some reason everyone is hot for BCM...it'll pass.

NiteQwill
09-15-2010, 9:03 AM
The barrel on my wifes Stag upper is marked MP...

The CMT (Stag) bolt is also MPI...you can even pay $10 extra for that when ordering one on the BCM site:

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/CMT-AR15-Semi-MPI-Bolt-Carrier-Group-p/bcg-cmt-mp-ar15.htm

As for 'higher quality material', please provide your source on that.

FYI, BCM doesn't make their own parts, they contract a manufacturer to do it for them, whereas Stag (CMT) has their own machine shop.

BCM is the flavor of the month, IMO, but there are many other good AR manufacturers out there. For some reason everyone is hot for BCM...it'll pass.
Have you compared a Stag bolt to a BCM? I have, I owned 3 complete Stag uppers. The Stag bolt and BCG are complete trash and had inconsistencies in finishing. I was once a nonbeliever too but owning their products opened by eyes.

BCM does finishing, but so do 95% of companies. Stag sucks at both finishing and manufacturing.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=55930

I ask you to compare the same $$$ between both companies, one will come out on top, by a long shot.

GutPunch
09-15-2010, 9:18 AM
After doing 2 months of research before buying my AR, I'd recommend that you spend the money on a good upper group and cry once instead of having to deal with the issues which could crop up with Stags.

C_1
09-15-2010, 9:56 AM
BCM is usually considered "better" than Stag. They both dont make their own parts (well, I think Stag is making those M8s now, so that statement could be wrong). But Stag get their parts from their father company, CMT, however, BCM dont buy junk either.

There's a story where BCM didnt have barrels or complete uppers because the barrel manufacturers couldnt meet the owner's (or whoever) standards.

I think the main difference between BCM and Stag is quality control. BCM's testing and quality control is more strict than Stag. I believe they test all of their parts. Where as Stag do batch testing. Hope that makes sense.

Stags are a great value, and they are not bad, but if all we're doing is shooting it at the range on weekends, I guess you could say its all the same.

But if you want something that will run and last in a carbine class, for self defense, or the like, where price shouldnt matter too much, Stag wont be at the top of my list. I'd go with a BCM, LMT, Daniel Defense, Noveske, Colt, FN, White Oak, JP, etc etc.

However, its up to you, to do decide where the price, and point of diminishing return, is for you.

Stag and CMMG works, but at the sale price of BCM, why settle for something "less"?

hnoppenberger
09-15-2010, 10:57 AM
I have a few stag guns, and i have bushmaster guns, spikes gun, and some colt parts.

The only bolt carrier that has failed? the COLT.

The gas key faseners loosened up, and it was staked real good.

Guess what, staking does much less than you think, the problem is people are slack jawed and cant tighten a fasener correctly. ive made one of my own out of a CMT bin parts, then wrenched down on the bolts and gave em my own staking, which IMO i do a better job than those idiots at cmt, colt, whoever.
has not failed yet, but if it does ill be surprized, and wont be too bugged by it, because you know what its a piece of machinery and just like a car its gonna break.

Average Joe American
09-15-2010, 12:21 PM
Both are good for punching holes in paper. The major difference is if you plan on going to war in Iraq or A-stan? Its common knowledge that Stag is clearly a mid tier AR. Drop in a $80 BCM BCG/bolt and it could be considered top tier to some?

BCM is about as mil-spec you can get other than being issued by the military itself. (thats the only why to get true mil-spec since mil-spec technically means it will have select fire.)

I own a Stag and I know exactly what its pros & cons are and I am ok with it since I am not taking it to Iraq. It has a 4140 chromoly barrel vs a 4150 chromoly vanadium steel barrel. Vanadium holds up to full auto heat better. Do I absolutely need that? Not at all.

Stag batch tests its barrels, bolts and BCG's. While BCM individually tests & inspects their parts. (HPT & MPI) This process is very expensive so many companies batch test to pass on a savings to the recreational shooter type customer. Stag offsets the batch test system with a lifetime warranty.

Stag is owned by the son of CMT. CMT has been providing forged uppers & lowers to lots of companies since the Vietnam war. I wouldnt be surprised if BCM buys its raw uppers & lowers from CMT?

The bottom line is BCM is built to withstand extreme hard use in combat. The reality is that very few citizens will ever push their AR15 to its breaking point in a home defense situation.

Are 6 pot Brembo breaks awesome? Sure but do I really need them on my compact pickup? Absolutely not. Many average Joe type folks need a reality check.

gmcal
09-15-2010, 12:44 PM
The barrel on my wifes Stag upper is marked MP...

The CMT (Stag) bolt is also MPI...you can even pay $10 extra for that when ordering one on the BCM site:

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/CMT-AR15-Semi-MPI-Bolt-Carrier-Group-p/bcg-cmt-mp-ar15.htm

As for 'higher quality material', please provide your source on that.

FYI, BCM doesn't make their own parts, they contract a manufacturer to do it for them, whereas Stag (CMT) has their own machine shop.

BCM is the flavor of the month, IMO, but there are many other good AR manufacturers out there. For some reason everyone is hot for BCM...it'll pass.

The barrel on my BCM is marked MP and HP as is the bolt. Is your wifes stag bolt and barrel marked HP as well? Some 4150 steel meets the mil spec for barrel steel and some don't. My BCM does. Does your wifes stag? My BCM bolt is made of the proper mil spec steel. Is your wifes stag bolt made of the correct steel? It might be, but I couldn't find the info on the stag website.

Most people will not need or notice the difference between a rifle that has the additional testing and higher quality material.

But price out a stag and BCM upper. The stag 2h is about $535. The BCM with standard barrel, bolt and charging handle, and DD rear sight is about $600. We're not talking about a stag and full blown space custom match grade rifle. $60-$70 isn't much when you know you're getting a rifle made from higher quality materials and additional QC.

As far as the flavor of the month that will pass, maybe. But that doesn't change the fact BCM rifles are built to a higher standard than stag and others at a competive price.

nagorb
09-15-2010, 12:58 PM
As I said in an earlier post people who have never owned a delton are the ones who complain about them, as I've seen in this thread all the people talking bad about BCM have never owned one.

Cyc Wid It
09-15-2010, 1:11 PM
It's one of those situations where the price difference is minimal, so why not go with the one with (all things being equal/on average) higher quality. That doesn't mean that all Stags are lemons and that they will all fail. The point is that you are more likely to receive a problematic gun from Stag than from BCM. I personally own a LMT, but my next will either be a BCM or DD.

nagorb
09-15-2010, 2:13 PM
Can any of the Stag, RRA etc fanboys show us a link to any info that shows they are anywhere equal to BCM?

Have you compared a Stag bolt to a BCM? I have, I owned 3 complete Stag uppers. The Stag bolt and BCG are complete trash and had inconsistencies in finishing. I was once a nonbeliever too but owning their products opened by eyes.

BCM does finishing, but so do 95% of companies. Stag sucks at both finishing and manufacturing.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=55930

I ask you to compare the same $$$ between both companies, one will come out on top, by a long shot.

IsaacGlass
09-15-2010, 3:02 PM
I have a Stag 2T and a BCM middy upper I bought last year during the rush to buy hype. I like both, but there is one thing my Stag can do that my BCM upper and a friend DD M4v2 cannot. Shoot Wolf ammo without jamming :D After all, if shooting paper is your thing, buying cheap wolf ammo do have their pocket book advantages. Maybe OP should buy both since prices have fallen a lot from last year. Anyways, carry on with the debate :popcorn:

fusionstar
09-15-2010, 3:41 PM
The finish on my BCM is outstanding, the finish on my cousin's Stag is sh*t at best, It took him 3 weeks to find a lower that would match 100%. The original stag lower was darker than the upper. That and the knowledge that every barrel and bolt is tested beyond industry standards constitutes the extra cash.

Stop asking for proof because some of you are in denial. The question is what you prefer. And alot of us prefer mil-spec barrels, bolts, and finishes because we feel that these extra bonuses justify the added cost. Both will still shoot.

gun toting monkeyboy
09-15-2010, 3:41 PM
As I said in an earlier post people who have never owned a delton are the ones who complain about them, as I've seen in this thread all the people talking bad about BCM have never owned one.

You get a lot of that online. I like my Model 1 Sales rifles. I even admit to owning 2 of them. And I like all of the Delton rifles I have fired. When it comes to BCM, I have to say that I have yet to run into a bad one. The fit and finish is always top notch. And I like the QA that they use. I am NOT a window-licking fanboy. But I really do like it when a company goes out of its way to turn out a very good, very reliable product at a reasonable price. BCM has done that as far as I am concerned. Personally I hope to never have to use any of my rifles for anything other than the occasional varmint, and evil paper targets now and then. But I really appreciate the fact that if the S ever did HTF, I will have at least one upper that I can count on to take whatever abuse I throw its way, and it will keep running. Not just running, but running well. THAT is what I like about BCM. For the money, it is the closest upper I can get true military grade.

gmcal
09-15-2010, 4:12 PM
I have a Stag 2T and a BCM middy upper I bought last year during the rush to buy hype. I like both, but there is one thing my Stag can do that my BCM upper and a friend DD M4v2 cannot. Shoot Wolf ammo without jamming :D After all, if shooting paper is your thing, buying cheap wolf ammo do have their pocket book advantages. Maybe OP should buy both since prices have fallen a lot from last year. Anyways, carry on with the debate :popcorn:

Do you run them on the same lower? What kind of buffer/spring? If you're using a h buffer try a carbine buffer and spring. Might work better for you. I haven't run much wolf through my bcm but what I have hasn't given me trouble.

erratikmind
09-15-2010, 4:19 PM
Gotta love my new 16" BCM BFH middy.

hnoppenberger
09-15-2010, 5:30 PM
ive noticed that too.. stag shoots crap ammo perfectly...

i will say i upgraded the stag rifles with the so com bolt upgrades; stiffer extractor spring, black instead of rifle blue bushing, and o ring. also running heavier buffers too. guns ran fine before, just a little preventative maintenance.

its the one downside about stag, which they say is not a problem, is they run m16a2 components for their bolts, and for their upper receiver. no m4 feed ramps, blue buffer inserts, and carbine buffers, not h buffers.

ill be honest, if i were to do it again, i would buy the bcm stuff instead, since they are cheap now, but id like to see how long my m4gery stag will go for without a problem, so far zero issues, several thousand rounds.

johnrunner89
09-15-2010, 5:46 PM
I currently have a stag upper on my stag lower. Has nearly 1k of different types of ammo and has been 100% reliable so I couldnt be happier with it. Sure it doesn't have all the boxes checked that BCM has on the infamous chart...but I don't mind. It has a reliable track record by several owners nationwide and is carried by numerous LEO's as duty rifles, used by hunters, and average joe's for that reason. On the other hand BCM is also a quality product that has an outstanding record too and is known to be very relialbe. Every now and then you will hear about both rifles having issues but nothing is perfect. Just get what you really want and have some fun at the range. The battle brand will never end. Back in school, kids judged each other by the brand of your clothes....here on Calguns, people sometimes judge you by the brand of your rifle :p