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View Full Version : Off-list FFLS: How has the second memo affected sales?


shopkeep
05-16-2006, 10:30 PM
I'm just curious about the effect of the second memo on off-list lower and off-list gear sales? Have sales continued on off-list goodies, or has the second memo successfully slowed down sales?

Jicko
05-16-2006, 11:09 PM
Everyone got their lowers already.....

Ten Rounder
05-16-2006, 11:16 PM
Got three and I think I'll get three more.

tenpercentfirearms
05-16-2006, 11:46 PM
I sell these things. The new memo has slowed things down, temporarely. All parts and accessories slowed down last week. This week it is back up again. Keep on buying ladies and gentleman.

shopkeep
05-16-2006, 11:52 PM
I sell these things. The new memo has slowed things down, temporarely. All parts and accessories slowed down last week. This week it is back up again. Keep on buying ladies and gentleman.

In light of the new memo I may decide to build an offlist AK-47 and a pinned mag FAL.

Pryde
05-17-2006, 10:34 AM
I wouldn't think it would have an effect, I doubt that 60% of the lower purchasers even go to calguns.

I think a lot of people who purchase lowers just walk into their local gunshop, see an AR lower, say "cool" and buy it. This is probably part of the reason why these people are building detachable mag AR's with pgrips, because the shop owner just wants to make a sale and doesn't bother to inform the guy of the current CA laws. The guy buying it figures that if its for sale in a gunshop it's legal.

CALI-gula
05-17-2006, 11:09 AM
I wouldn't think it would have an effect, I doubt that 60% of the lower purchasers even go to calguns.... / ...This is probably part of the reason why these people are building detachable mag AR's with pgrips, because the shop owner just wants to make a sale and doesn't bother to inform the guy of the current CA laws...


Wrong - there are very few if any people building them into SB-23 AW features ban configurations. The VERY FEW that MAY have done so are likely doing it to thumb their nose at CA gun laws in general, no different than those that did not partake in any registration required by Roberti-Roos, SB23, or AB50 - yes, those people are still out there, they exist, always will. Unless they do somethin publicly stupid or their are investigated for other crimes, the DOJ will never know they own those firearms. Those "illegal" guns will sit in their safe until "the Rapture" if they so choose.

There are also convicted felons that own full-auto AK47s that received them as stolen property or were smuggled into California by Columbian Cartels, where the drug sniffing dogs never noticed, as they were trained to smell cocaine, not firearms.

So pick your crime, but don't make up scenarios and instances you can't prove. You sound worse than the yellow-journalism press!

Most all of the dealers that have been selling them have frequently referred people to various sources to read up on the law, as well as a specific FAQ by which everyone here is familiar. Many hand out both the memos and the FAQ. EVERY consumer I have ever met at various dealers' shops dealing in Off List lowers has mentioned Calguns.net in discussion or by anecdote. That also indicates that at some point, your 60% figure is an inaccurate assessment, because in the process, people learn to stop in here at some point or another to familiarize themselves with the futility and ridiculousness of numerous contradictory memos.

And as far as memos enticing purchases: it gave me a GREATER motivation to purchase numerous other type receivers beyond AR influenced lowers by which I was unsure of purchasing previously. I had already bought 2 DCI-AK receivers, but BECAUSE of the second memo, I am now in for numerous types of receivers with "detachable magazines" of HK91, FN FAL, AK variant, Stoner 63, SIG, Steyr, and ???? influence. Bill and Iggy can sit on THAT and spin.

How does THAT float your goat? Because looking at your previous posts, you seem to be carting your goat over this Off-List Lower issue over and over, and the goat is well dead. I am puzzled by your fixation with this topic. I understand you are adverse to listing as it coincides with registration - I have reservations about this as well, and since the 2nd memo notes there won't be any listing, your beef (or goat) is on the table, and it's well done.

Yet, your continuance to keep this shuttlecock in the air makes me believe you have some invested interest beyond playing Devil's advocate, and beyond your claims of supporting 2nd Amendment Rights, as if your intention is to discourage Off-List lower purchases altogether. You got your 2nd memo stating the DOJ won't list - you should be happy now. You should suffice with the second memo, and take your "I told you so" mantra to heart - and be done with us. Right?

.

Pryde
05-17-2006, 11:33 AM
Wow, that was really an overreactionary and confrontational post in regards to what I said.

Yes, I have met people in person who have had offlisters with pistol grips and detachable mags. Some of these people are just ignorant of the law, others just don't care. It doesn't really matter to me what they do really, my guns are legal. If I meet people like this, I politely inform them that they should fix their mag or remove their pgrip to make their weapon legal and do not push the issue any further.

I'm sure the calguns related vendors on this site do thier job to tell people that these lowers are not legal unless pinned mag or no SB-23 features, but I'm also sure not every FFL in CA goes to calguns. Based on the reactions of people who own "illegal config" ARs that I have personally met, it leads me to believe based on my opinion that the people who sold these guys their lowers were not fully informed about the law or did not care.

There is life outside Calguns, and not every gunowner in CA looks at this website or even knows it exists. I base my claims on what I have actually seen in person, not what I have read off a computer screen. I'm not trying to sh*t on your lowers, I already realized it is pointless to do so. I'm just pointing out that there is a lot of shady behavior going on with people who own OLLs, you should care about this because as an OLL owner, people like this make you look bad.

Is that better?

6172crew
05-17-2006, 12:11 PM
My FFL said sales have been the same for the last few months.

bwiese
05-17-2006, 12:41 PM
Quite a few FFL dealers are incl copies of my FAQ and the CA AW laws/regs as part of a purchase package.

I saw 3 copies of my FAQ at the Cow Palace gunshow last week.

shopkeep
05-17-2006, 1:13 PM
Quite a few FFL dealers are incl copies of my FAQ and the CA AW laws/regs as part of a purchase package.

I saw 3 copies of my FAQ at the Cow Palace gunshow last week.

Your FAQ became general issue about 5 months back in January :)!

kenc9
05-17-2006, 1:54 PM
My FFL gives all the memos from DOJ as to what the DOJ is saying.


Pryde? Please explain where your coming from and what the / means? and what the pic means to you? Sorry...but I smell a rat!


-ken

Pryde
05-17-2006, 2:05 PM
My FFL gives all the memos from DOJ as to what the DOJ is saying.


Pryde? Please explain where your coming from and what the / means? and what the pic means to you? Sorry...but I smell a rat!


-ken

There are 2,438 FFL holders in California as of 2005.

Is it that hard to believe some of them don't visit Calguns? When I ask my personal FFL about DOJ memos and whatnot posted on this site, he tells me: "The only updates I get are from the DOJ". Since the memo is not an actual law or policy update, he did not get it.

So you're telling me just because your FFL knows about cal-AR laws, every FFL in CA has read Bweise's FAQ? That smells suspect to me.

kenc9
05-17-2006, 2:21 PM
There are 2,438 FFL holders in California as of 2005.

Is it that hard to believe some of them don't visit Calguns? When I ask my personal FFL about DOJ memos and whatnot posted on this site, he tells me: "The only updates I get are from the DOJ". Since the memo is not an actual law or policy update, he did not get it.

So you're telling me just because your FFL knows about cal-AR laws, every FFL in CA has read Bweise's FAQ? That smells suspect to me.
Alot of FFL's are use to all the crap DOJ says and only hear what the new law is.

So I ask again..What is up with that rebel pic with the red / thru it?
And if what is said here is suspect...why do you care? Are you trying to save us all? We can all read and don't need someone like yourself trying to help us decide thank you!

You may smell suspect...I smell a rat...and I think you know what I mean!

kenc9
05-17-2006, 2:35 PM
There is life outside Calguns, and not every gunowner in CA looks at this website or even knows it exists. I base my claims on what I have actually seen in person, not what I have read off a computer screen. I'm not trying to sh*t on your lowers, I already realized it is pointless to do so. I'm just pointing out that there is a lot of shady behavior going on with people who own OLLs, you should care about this because as an OLL owner, people like this make you look bad.

Is that better?
WOW! I don't know anyone that is not doing exactly what the law says! Not what DOJ says because they are liers, but what the law says. Who do you know is not being lawfull? Are you trying to create """probable cause"""?

You say you """not trying to sh*t on your lowers, I already realized it is pointless """???

Why are you trying to do that?

I don't know why you are here...but I'll say again...I smell a rat!

Guys becarefull.

-ken

Pryde
05-17-2006, 2:37 PM
Alot of FFL's are use to all the crap DOJ says and only hear what the new law is.

So I ask again..What is up with that rebel pic with the red / thru it?
And if what is said here is suspect...why do you care? Are you trying to save us all? We can all read and don't need someone like yourself trying to help us decide thank you!

You may smell suspect...I smell a rat...and I think you know what I mean!

I did not know you were referring to my avatar, I thought you were talking about my post, try to be more clear about what you are saying. My avatar is che guevara crossed out. I'm sure you've seen college kids wearing che guevara shirts, they seem to think he's cool because he was a communist.

Basically my avatar stand for my view that "communists are not cool". Because they aren't.

I don't know if you are young or if english is your second language, but if you can't state your intentions more clearly, it is difficult for myself and others to understand what you are saying. What I was saying in my original post is that, yes there are lots of people out there not being lawful with their OLLs, yes I see them all the time, and no, cops don't care.

kenc9
05-17-2006, 2:44 PM
See if this is clear from this 52 year old realtor!

I think something is wrong with why you are here...Get that?
AND I smell a rat...Is that clear?

Everyone has been forewarned!

Trouble maker...Rat...something is not right.

Watch what you say!

My ignore is now on so don't waste your time explaining...But I am sure you will.

-ken