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DNA
09-11-2010, 11:52 PM
Looking for someone that would be willing to come out to the LA South Bay area to bolt a safe into concrete floors.

Dan

Ed_Hazard
09-11-2010, 11:54 PM
You could probably do it yourself pretty cheap renting the tools at Home Depot and useing the right size red head bolts.


Edit: Depending on the size of your safe's knockouts here's the stuff you need. You'll also need a socket set or adj. wrenchto tighten down and maybe a little locktight.

Bolts
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xhc/R-100132499/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Bit
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xhc/R-100195379/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

You could use the cheaper Vermont bit , but it might not last long enough to do the job.

You can rent the Rotary hammer at most Home Depots and sae onnot haveing to buy one, or you could use this as an excuse to buy one.:43:

IntoForever
09-11-2010, 11:57 PM
Hammer drill, new bit and some "redheads" bolts. Damn thing aint going anywhere!

ElectronWrangler
09-12-2010, 7:51 AM
Just be aware of what's behind your safe before you anchor it down. I recently went out on a trouble call, homeowners outside receptacles and the recepts in the garage were not working. The homeowner had the biggest gun safe I've ever seen. Had it anchored down 3" off the wall of the garage with 1/2" anchors epoxied into the garage floor. This thing was not going to move. Problem was it was anchored down centered right in front of the GFCI that protected his garage and outside recepts and it had tripped.
EW

JimmyW
09-13-2010, 7:37 PM
just make sure the floor is not a post-tension concrete slab

CSACANNONEER
09-13-2010, 7:51 PM
You're over an hour away from me but, if you can't find anyone else in a reasonable amount of time, let me know. If I can find my hammer drill, I don't mind giving you a hand sometime.

Kodemonkey
09-13-2010, 7:54 PM
just make sure the floor is not a post-tension concrete slab

Yeah, when I bought my house I had to sign all kinds of stuff stating I understood I had a tension slab. Apparently if you hit a tension wire it has enough force to kill you. At least that's what I was told in the paperwork.

kendog4570
09-14-2010, 12:17 PM
It's true.


Yeah, when I bought my house I had to sign all kinds of stuff stating I understood I had a tension slab. Apparently if you hit a tension wire it has enough force to kill you. At least that's what I was told in the paperwork.

DNA
09-14-2010, 10:24 PM
Hmm.. how in the world does one go about finding out about the post-tension concrete slab aside from cut/bolt and stand back?

Dan

maurice05
09-14-2010, 10:45 PM
PT cables are never in older homes because the cost and still not in most newer ones for same reason, never seen it kill someone but seen several drilled into but the force involved I think I understand what was implyed, I have a 12v and 24v dewalt still I'm willing to loan in addition simple threaded rod a nut and washer should be good enough since your just trying to prevent uplifting forces. Oh and I been on inspections of multi million dollar home who still don't use PT cables but it is a good idea to know since they are use in low to hi end homes

CSACANNONEER
09-18-2010, 2:55 PM
PT cables are never in older homes because the cost and still not in most newer ones for same reason, never seen it kill someone but seen several drilled into but the force involved I think I understand what was implyed, I have a 12v and 24v dewalt still I'm willing to loan in addition simple threaded rod a nut and washer should be good enough since your just trying to prevent uplifting forces. Oh and I been on inspections of multi million dollar home who still don't use PT cables but it is a good idea to know since they are use in low to hi end homes

I get to a lot of construction sites in Malibu, Beverly Hills, Hollywood Hills, etc. and I see plans for for many high end homes and I've yet to see a set which calls for PT cables.

maurice05
09-18-2010, 5:30 PM
I have only seen two single family dwellings with it, one in south LA a basement was under garage slab, second was in san Pedro ironically both jobs were same contractor. Csacannoneer who was you electrical inspectors? Or were your inspectors BMI'S

CSACANNONEER
09-18-2010, 5:40 PM
I have only seen two single family dwellings with it, one in south LA a basement was under garage slab, second was in san Pedro ironically both jobs were same contractor. Csacannoneer who was you electrical inspectors? Or were your inspectors BMI'S

I have no idea who the inspectors were. I'm a surveyor so, I get to a lot of different job sites and need to go over plans for most of them.

Seesm
09-18-2010, 6:10 PM
Never ever heard of those kind of slabs can some explain them more sounds crazy dangerous.

kendog4570
09-18-2010, 6:45 PM
Never ever heard of those kind of slabs can some explain them more sounds crazy dangerous.

Very typical in concrete bridgework. Basically, very high strength wires are placed in a concrete form to an engineered profile, and after the concrete is poured and cured, it is tensioned with a hydraulic ram. This ads great tensile strength to concrete. There is a lot more to it but that is the short version.

maurice05
09-18-2010, 7:09 PM
And cool to watch them use the ram listening to the poping sound it makes

ThunderBubba
09-21-2010, 11:11 PM
I was working for an electrical contractor at a apartment that was being built in Pleasant Hill about 15 years ago, and someone had mis-marked the locations of the cables in the parking garage. I say a guy drilling a hole with the rotary hammer, and suddenly there was a loud "TWANG" and a poof of red mist...:eek:

He just nicked the cable, and it snapped instantly, severing his left arm at the shoulder, and his left leg right above the knee as the cable curled up out of the concrete..... It was so powerfull, that it looked like it had been done with surgical instruments... (he lived)

About a month later in December, we had the coldest snap I can recall in the bay area, and every pipe in the 7 story apartment froze and burst.... There were no windows or interior walls yet, they were just doing a leak check... That place was cursed....


If you plan to do any bolting to your floor, It might be worth it to get someone with a good metal detector to make sure you aren't going to hit a cable.... The ones in your floor will not be as large, or as highly tensioned as the ones in a parking garage, but they could still slice you in half.....

kendog4570
09-22-2010, 7:03 AM
An old inspector friend was on a job many years ago where there were a few post tensioned concrete bridge girders stacked by the side of a freeway, staged for erection. A semi truck clipped one of them pretty good and the cables whipped it apart in a matter of seconds, along with the others yarded next to it.
I personally have done a railroad bridge with multi-strand cables (45 to 54 wires in each of 32 cables) and there is an unbelievable amount of tension applied to the wires.
Even with the relatively small mono-strand wire that may be in a house slab, it isn't anything you want to fool with.

Check out this website for an idea of what is involved.
http://vsl.net/SYSTEMSPRODUCTS/MONOSTRANDPT/tabid/88/Default.aspx

CSACANNONEER
09-22-2010, 7:35 AM
Did you ever find anyone to help you bolt your safe down?

PatriotnMore
09-22-2010, 7:44 AM
I was working for an electrical contractor at a apartment that was being built in Pleasant Hill about 15 years ago, and someone had mis-marked the locations of the cables in the parking garage. I say a guy drilling a hole with the rotary hammer, and suddenly there was a loud "TWANG" and a poof of red mist...:eek:

He just nicked the cable, and it snapped instantly, severing his left arm at the shoulder, and his left leg right above the knee as the cable curled up out of the concrete..... It was so powerfull, that it looked like it had been done with surgical instruments... (he lived)

About a month later in December, we had the coldest snap I can recall in the bay area, and every pipe in the 7 story apartment froze and burst.... There were no windows or interior walls yet, they were just doing a leak check... That place was cursed....


If you plan to do any bolting to your floor, It might be worth it to get someone with a good metal detector to make sure you aren't going to hit a cable.... The ones in your floor will not be as large, or as highly tensioned as the ones in a parking garage, but they could still slice you in half.....

Holy bad days Batman, The risk of injury sounds like it outweighs the benefit for residential. Crap, how is someone going to protect against a mis marked cable location? I guess a metal detector could hep in pinpointing cable, but man, it just does not appear the risk and cost is worth it.

GP3
09-22-2010, 7:45 AM
How would you guys drill the holes?

Would you place the safe in it's spot, mark the holes, move the safe, drill, put the safe back, bolt down?

Or

Place the safe in it's spot, drill the holes, bolt down?

Thanks.

EDIT: The holes in the safe are there. I meant how would you drill holes in the concrete.

CSACANNONEER
09-22-2010, 7:48 AM
How would you guys drill the holes?

Would you place the safe in it's spot, mark the holes, move the safe, drill, put the safe back, bolt down?

Or

Place the safe in it's spot, drill the holes, bolt down?

Thanks.

Most safes have predrilled holes in the bottom of them. Depending on the size of these holes, one might be able to drill and insert redheads without moving the safe. Otherwise, I'd drill with the safe in place, move it to insert lead and then reposition it to bolt it down.

DirtyJerz
09-22-2010, 7:49 AM
How would you guys drill the holes?

Would you place the safe in it's spot, mark the holes, move the safe, drill, put the safe back, bolt down?

Or

Place the safe in it's spot, drill the holes, bolt down?

Thanks.

I marked the holes with the safe in its place, then moved it, drilled the holes, then placed the safe back and bolted it down. Luckily my holes were accurate :D

I couldnt drill with the safe in place b/c there was just not enough room to fit the drill in the corners where the holes were.

maurice05
09-22-2010, 2:06 PM
So what do you guys favor red heads or all thread with epoxy the couple I have bolted I used epoxy

smird
09-23-2010, 7:37 AM
Just FYI the Trilogy homes down in Corona near Tom's Farm are all post tensioned. They do have a plaque in the concrete in the garage slab. Don't know if that's required now.

I've used red heads and bolts with epoxy, to fasten all the machine tools down in my garage. The epoxy has held better.

But I get more vibration on the tools then upward force like someone stealing a safe.

GP3
09-23-2010, 7:59 AM
red heads = wedge anchor?

ironman5669
09-23-2010, 11:35 AM
yes, red head is a brand of wedge anchor.

Dreaded Claymore
09-23-2010, 2:12 PM
Why does the cable snap up out of the slab? If I understand this correctly, if the concrete slab makes up the floor and the tensioned cables are running parallel to the flat surface of the concrete, the tension is going this way <--->. So if a cable is broken, wouldn't the two pieces of it go this way <---> instead of going upwards and killing the hapless firearms enthusiast?

CSACANNONEER
09-23-2010, 3:58 PM
Why does the cable snap up out of the slab? If I understand this correctly, if the concrete slab makes up the floor and the tensioned cables are running parallel to the flat surface of the concrete, the tension is going this way <--->. So if a cable is broken, wouldn't the two pieces of it go this way <---> instead of going upwards and killing the hapless firearms enthusiast?

Strech a rubber band and cut it. Now, did you notice that it doesn't come straight back but, instead it jumps around a bit?

smird
09-23-2010, 4:05 PM
Why does the cable snap up out of the slab? If I understand this correctly, if the concrete slab makes up the floor and the tensioned cables are running parallel to the flat surface of the concrete, the tension is going this way <--->. So if a cable is broken, wouldn't the two pieces of it go this way <---> instead of going upwards and killing the hapless firearms enthusiast?

For lack of a better diagram This <------> turns into this </\/\/\/\/\/>

watch this cable break.
BuIbvX_B7sY

Curtis
09-23-2010, 4:10 PM
Why does the cable snap up out of the slab? If I understand this correctly, if the concrete slab makes up the floor and the tensioned cables are running parallel to the flat surface of the concrete, the tension is going this way <--->. So if a cable is broken, wouldn't the two pieces of it go this way <---> instead of going upwards and killing the hapless firearms enthusiast?

The main reason is that the cables are not straight. They curve up, down, left, and right. The other reason is up is the path of least resistance.

All residential slabs with PT in them should have a stamp in the concrete at the garage door. It also needs to be at one side or the other of the opening. I have seen them so light that it is hard to know what they are....unless you are looking for them.

Residential tendons are made up of 7-strand tendons/cables. Unless you cut a tendon, I would not expect it to cause much damage or be a major issue to live or limb. But anything is possible....

I had a situation where a contract cut 7 tendons at the front of a garage. The concrete plugs at the other end of the cable did shoot out with a great deal of force. I could see that hurting or even killing someone.

If anyone has a PT slab and wants to locate the tendons, let me know. I have the equipment to do so.

97F1504RAD
09-23-2010, 4:19 PM
So what do those of us that have PT slabs do?

CSACANNONEER
09-23-2010, 6:42 PM
So what do those of us that have PT slabs do?

CRY?

IntoForever
09-23-2010, 9:58 PM
Here's why a PT cable goes upwards. Too much resistance to sides and down so it goes up. I've done precast/pre-tensioned cable and the tension on those is insane. I've heard of a cable snapping and splitting the slab in half.
As for anchoring a safe, I use a tape measure and figure out where the bolts are going, lay it out and double check the marks. When you drill out the holes you don't want the concrete dust dropping back in the holes so you vacuum it out. Set the safe and install the anchors. If you want that safe to be permanent, use epoxy in the hole before placing the safe and bolts.

smird
09-24-2010, 6:43 AM
If anyone has a PT slab and wants to locate the tendons, let me know. I have the equipment to do so.

So what do those of us that have PT slabs do?

Talk to ENG417?