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View Full Version : maintaining a AK47 in the field


vanjons
09-10-2010, 8:02 PM
So, I was thinking with corrosive ammo you have to clean your rifle soon after you shoot it. At least thats what people say. I dont have any frist hand experince. If thats true, how do the freedom fighters, terrorists, rebels, or what ever you want to call them all over the world, care for there rifles? Or are they all POS that you couldnt hit the brod side of a barn with?

jaustin612
09-10-2010, 8:09 PM
Heheh, I remember seeing a old video of some ancient looking afghan rebels cleaning even more ancient looking aks. One of them had a shoestring with a knot tied on the end, that was dipped in motor oil, and was using it like a boresnake. People like that aren't concerned about shooting sub moa with their rifle, or even sub foot... Caring for their rifles usually would consist of popping the top cover off, flipping it upside down and shaking the dirt out of it, maybe squirting some used motor oil in the action... :)

Alot of people here have the goal of making one hole in a target with as many rounds as possible, and are willing to be as anal as need be to accomplish that goal. Over there, if it shoots all the time, thats all that really matters. You'd honestly laugh if you saw how Iraqis shoot.

bigthaiboy
09-10-2010, 8:10 PM
That's why AKs and SKSs (except Yugos of course) all had chromed lined barrels. These rifles were designed for minimally trained troops. The SKS for example had the fixed magazine and folding bayonet, because Soviet military chiefs considered these two less gun parts for a soldier to lose. Soviet military chiefs clearly had a lower than average opinion of their soldiers' level of competence.

driveljay
09-10-2010, 8:10 PM
take a boot lace, tie 5-6 large knots in it, soak in motor oil, and pull through. Repeat as necessary.;)
But seriously these guns will take some crazy abuse...kinda like a Honda. Poorly or Well maintained they just keep running. I put 2k down my Bulgy before cleaning it. The piston looked like it was made of charcoal. It didnt really need to be cleaned but I did it anyway. Not a single malfunction up to that point. Accuracy not affected at least within 200yrds (I dont shoot it much past that.)

sd1023x
09-10-2010, 8:18 PM
Well first you have to make the assumption about the pervasiveness of corrosive 7.62x39 amongst non-align groups.

Second, who makes corrosive 7.62x39 anymore?

That being said, the insurgents that have been caught have had electic mixes of ammunition, but more often than not, its from local gov't and american supplies.

MrPlink
09-10-2010, 8:23 PM
A little surface rust isn't going to ruin an ak. Sometimes if things got bad the action might sieze up, in which case you just put the butt stock on the ground and motorcycle stomp the charging handle (I dare you to clear an AR this way) and you are good to go.

BroncoBob
09-10-2010, 8:52 PM
Crap, pour some motor oil down the tube and your good. here is one buried for 18 years and it stilled fires

http://www.hk94.com/hk/topic/27472-ak47-rifle-buried-for-18-years-still-functions/

Mac
09-10-2010, 11:16 PM
Actually Russia has a higher literacy rate than the United States.
I laugh when the dumb peasant conscript term comes up when referring to the AK and SKS. Simplicity and Reliability is not an ancillary benefit intended for the challenged. Just an efficient design philosophy. A Way of thinking so to speak.

http://www.data360.org/dsg.aspx?Data_Set_Group_Id=599

Corrosive ammo? I don't see an issue. They know what cleaning a weapon means as well as we do. :)

My view anyway.

Scott Connors
09-10-2010, 11:21 PM
Well first you have to make the assumption about the pervasiveness of corrosive 7.62x39 amongst non-align groups.

Second, who makes corrosive 7.62x39 anymore?

That being said, the insurgents that have been caught have had electic mixes of ammunition, but more often than not, its from local gov't and american supplies.

Former combloc states prefer corrosive primers because they supposedly ignite more reliably in cold temperatures. (And they know cold!)

Scott Connors
09-10-2010, 11:27 PM
Actually Russia has a higher literacy rate than the United States.
I laugh when the dumb peasant conscript term comes up when referring to the AK and SKS. Simplicity and Reliability is not an ancillary benefit intended for the challenged. Just an efficient design philosophy. A Way of thinking so to speak.

http://www.data360.org/dsg.aspx?Data_Set_Group_Id=599

Corrosive ammo? I don't see an issue. They know what cleaning a weapon means as well as we do. :)

My view anyway.

There's the motivation factor to consider. Typical Soviet conscript tried to do as little as possible, with the exception of finding alcohol. Unless an officer was watching them, chances are they wouldn't go so far as the shoelace and motor oil. Read Victor Suvarov's INSIDE THE RED ARMY for a revealing picture.

I understand that things have gotten much better in the Russian Army, and this was undoubtedly not the case in some of the other Warsaw Pact states (East Germany and Poland come to mind),

Mac
09-10-2010, 11:49 PM
There's the motivation factor to consider. Typical Soviet conscript tried to do as little as possible, with the exception of finding alcohol. Unless an officer was watching them, chances are they wouldn't go so far as the shoelace and motor oil. Read Victor Suvarov's INSIDE THE RED ARMY for a revealing picture.

I understand that things have gotten much better in the Russian Army, and this was undoubtedly not the case in some of the other Warsaw Pact states (East Germany and Poland come to mind),

Yeah I will check Amazon for a copy of it and give it a look see.
Alcohol I think is universal for any Military service. I know it was for my Father. Many stories there.

fusionstar
09-11-2010, 12:01 AM
Despite popular belief.. AK's do jam. It's loose tolerances allow for larger margins of reliability. Keeping any rifle clean is priority, even AK's. Sure, its not moa accurate, but its accurate enough.

fs-OIJxDEEQ

Quiet
09-11-2010, 12:54 AM
Working rusted AK (Norinco Type 56-II) taken off a Somali pirate.
http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt156/rosco2009/rustyak.jpg

bigthaiboy
09-11-2010, 1:12 AM
Actually Russia has a higher literacy rate than the United States.
I laugh when the dumb peasant conscript term comes up when referring to the AK and SKS. Simplicity and Reliability is not an ancillary benefit intended for the challenged. Just an efficient design philosophy. A Way of thinking so to speak.

http://www.data360.org/dsg.aspx?Data_Set_Group_Id=599

Corrosive ammo? I don't see an issue. They know what cleaning a weapon means as well as we do. :)

My view anyway.

I'm confused why you would post 21st Century literacy data. It's completely irrelevant to your argument, and you would have done better to have produced Russian literacy data from 1945 to 1947. The SKS and AK was born out of post-WWII Russian design philosophy based on military doctrine of that era.

I never mentioned anything about "dumb peasants", but class and race did play an important role in the Red Army. Even during the 1970's and 1980's, Russian Army conscripts of Mongolian Asian decent were generally kept out of infantry units and put in engineers units, due to distrust by white officers in the Asian Russian's ability, and intelligence, based purely on his race. Soviet Army engineer units made up as much as 1 million men. It is believed most engineers only ever handled a rifle during basic training, so were much more proficient in handling a pick and shovel, than a battle rifle.

bigthaiboy
09-11-2010, 1:15 AM
Working rusted AK (Norinco Type 56-II) taken off a Somali pirate.
http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt156/rosco2009/rustyak.jpg

Ah, it just needs a squirt of CLP to get it in battle-ready condition again.

MrPlink
09-11-2010, 1:57 AM
Despite popular belief.. AK's do jam. It's loose tolerances allow for larger margins of reliability. Keeping any rifle clean is priority, even AK's. Sure, its not moa accurate, but its accurate enough.

fs-OIJxDEEQ

well, this video definitely shows expert use! HIGHLY trained soldiers you have there, no chance of user error whats-so-ever. Look at that technique! Im sure this is going to be on the next Magpul DVD :p

big ron
09-11-2010, 8:20 AM
Despite popular belief.. AK's do jam. It's loose tolerances allow for larger margins of reliability. Keeping any rifle clean is priority, even AK's. Sure, its not moa accurate, but its accurate enough.

fs-OIJxDEEQfawk :eek: with friends like that, who needs enemies.

sevensix2x51
09-11-2010, 9:17 AM
A little surface rust isn't going to ruin an ak. Sometimes if things got bad the action might sieze up, in which case you just put the butt stock on the ground and motorcycle stomp the charging handle (I dare you to clear an AR this way) and you are good to go.

yeah, you cant get your foot onto the charging handle. you have to tightly grip the ch and smash the butt of the weapon on the floor as hard as you can, to clear an ar.

:rolleyes:

BroncoBob
09-11-2010, 10:11 AM
Working rusted AK (Norinco Type 56-II) taken off a Somali pirate.
http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt156/rosco2009/rustyak.jpg

Without a doubt a thing of beauty

PEZHEAD265
09-11-2010, 11:23 AM
Well first you have to make the assumption about the pervasiveness of corrosive 7.62x39 amongst non-align groups.

Second, who makes corrosive 7.62x39 anymore?

That being said, the insurgents that have been caught have had electic mixes of ammunition, but more often than not, its from local gov't and american supplies.

The Yugo 7.62x39 mil surplus is corrosive from AIM
http://www.aimsurplus.com/

God Bless The Mauser
09-11-2010, 11:39 AM
Whoever had my Yugo M64 maintained it, the bore is in good shape and the gas tube is bright and shiny. It is obviously well used, most of the finish is worn off. My other Yugos have pitting in the gas tubes and the bores show more wear.

sd1023x
09-11-2010, 11:48 AM
The Yugo 7.62x39 mil surplus is corrosive from AIM
http://www.aimsurplus.com/

That stuff is from the 70's...so that's conclusive of...

Code7inOaktown
09-11-2010, 1:34 PM
Actually Russia has a higher literacy rate than the United States.
I laugh when the dumb peasant conscript term comes up when referring to the AK and SKS. Simplicity and Reliability is not an ancillary benefit intended for the challenged. Just an efficient design philosophy. A Way of thinking so to speak.

http://www.data360.org/dsg.aspx?Data_Set_Group_Id=599

Corrosive ammo? I don't see an issue. They know what cleaning a weapon means as well as we do. :)

My view anyway.

I have to agree. I know AK's are generally seen as the weapon of choice in the developing world's rebels but the Soviet's clearly had a different view of war than we did. I suspect that's because they lost 24 million in WWII. Whereas US soil was mostly untouched by war.

It isn't just the AK that's designed like this. They did the same with all of their military technologies.

American fighter jets have to have pristine airfields before take off to prevent debris from being injested into the engines. Most of the Soviet's aircraft are designed to take off from airfields damaged by bombing and debris and thus have systems to block the intake of debris before takeoff.

American's scoffed at the use of tube technology in the MIG25 because it was viewed as inferior but the Soviets used tube technology because of its ability to withstand EMP better than solid state technology.

Their ships were also designed for simplicity. Many of their cruisers and missile guided destroyers used externally mounted missiles, eg. Slava-class cruisers. This was seen as being far more reliable than VLS systems being adopted. The Soviets did adopt VLS systems in their ships, eg. Kirov, but they also wanted a fall back should the cold war go hot.

vandal
09-11-2010, 1:53 PM
... and the Yugo is among the most effective milsurp round, and the only milsurp choice for non-magnetic.

That stuff is from the 70's...so that's conclusive of...

Mac
09-11-2010, 2:18 PM
bigthaiboy:

Relax. Was not an attack, just a pet peeve I have, although I did interject a few phrases. My bad. Literacy rates take quite a long time to change and go North. My point. Simplicity is their basic design philosophy (Sputnik, MIG, AK the list goes on). As a DeFacto result of an Ancillary benefit (side Effect) their weapons are easy to operate for anyone including the former Soviet Union folks. Was it intentional because their IQ is low? I doubt it. My words not yours. Yeah I could be wrong on the above.

Just my .02 and yes off the OP topic.
Now back to our regular scheduled programming.

bigthaiboy
09-11-2010, 3:21 PM
bigthaiboy:

Relax. Was not an attack, just a pet peeve I have, although I did interject a few phrases. My bad. Literacy rates take quite a long time to change and go North. My point. Simplicity is their basic design philosophy (Sputnik, MIG, AK the list goes on). As a DeFacto result of an Ancillary benefit (side Effect) their weapons are easy to operate for anyone including the former Soviet Union folks. Was it intentional because their IQ is low? I doubt it. My words not yours. Yeah I could be wrong on the above.

Just my .02 and yes off the OP topic.
Now back to our regular scheduled programming.

No offence was taken. The myth of the "dumb peasant" and the "inferior" Mongolian Asian soldier was a commonly-held belief by Soviet senior officers based on class / race prejudices. Without doubt, these in some form served to influence military doctrine and design.

The other major influences of military design was of course cost, function over form, and ease of mass production, eg, the milled AK-47 is phased out in favor of the stamped AKM in 1959.

ZX-10R
09-11-2010, 4:14 PM
My WASRs and PSL have gone hundreds of rounds without cleaning and I am talking weeks and in one case over a month+ without cleaning and still firing. That is what is awesome about the AK pattern...Reliability.

sevensix2x51
09-11-2010, 4:17 PM
i havent cleaned one each of my ar15s or hk93 clones in over almost (edit for bad math) a year. i have given the bolts a squirt of motor oil once or twice, but thats it. they run like a deere.

coma13
09-11-2010, 4:50 PM
"Anything that is complex is not useful and anything that is useful is simple. This has been my whole life's motto."
 -Mikhail Kalashnikov

ZX-10R
09-11-2010, 5:11 PM
i havent cleaned one each of my ar15s or hk93 clones in over almost (edit for bad math) a year. i have given the bolts a squirt of motor oil once or twice, but thats it. they run like a deere.

How many rounds? Brass? Steel? Milsurp ammo for PSL is dirty as heck but hey...I like your style. Cleaning is subjective...I have not cleaned my dirtbike this year or my YZ85 in almost two years :D My sportbike which is my commuter has not seen soap and water in almost 3 years...Last time it saw water was the drizzle of rain this past Wednesday in Irvine at 6am.

sevensix2x51
09-11-2010, 5:25 PM
ive run probably 2k through each rifle. i use wolf exclusively in the 93, it stinks up the whole safe. looks like the la brea tar pits in the action. i switched over to all brass in the ar about 4 months ago, just because of the steel getting caught up in the chamber. the rifle was doing its job, just the coating on the steel ammo would bind one up every few hundred rounds. it was annoying. the ar eats the brass all day long. fluted chamber in the 93 doesnt care about no coating, it blasts with impunity.

ZX-10R
09-11-2010, 5:36 PM
ive run probably 2k through each rifle. i use wolf exclusively in the 93, it stinks up the whole safe. looks like the la brea tar pits in the action. i switched over to all brass in the ar about 4 months ago, just because of the steel getting caught up in the chamber. the rifle was doing its job, just the coating on the steel ammo would bind one up every few hundred rounds. it was annoying. the ar eats the brass all day long. fluted chamber in the 93 doesnt care about no coating, it blasts with impunity.

Good stuff for sure...Have not cleaned my AK in 2 weeks and it had 200 rounds go through the last time I shot it. I had to clean my PSL after a couple a hundred rounds due to the fact that I had to take the firing pin retainer pin out to fix the pin so it would depress the primer properly...That was a biatch!!!

nick
09-11-2010, 6:21 PM
fawk :eek: with friends like that, who needs enemies.

I know, lots of deaf people there, huh? :)

PEZHEAD265
09-12-2010, 12:12 AM
That stuff is from the 70's...so that's conclusive of...

Ammunition Purchase Requirements

1,120rd case (28 boxes): $179.20

Beautiful Surplus Yugoslavian 7.62x39 ammunition. This is the best shooting 7.62x39 ammunition available. Features a 123grn lead core copper jacketed bullet, brass case, and berdan corrosive primer. Packed 10rds on a steel charger (stripper clip), 40rds (4 chargers) in a box, and 1,120rds (28 boxes) sealed in metal tin inside of a hinged latched wooden case. At these prices... while supplies last!

MrPlink
09-12-2010, 2:52 AM
Ammunition Purchase Requirements

1,120rd case (28 boxes): $179.20

Beautiful Surplus Yugoslavian 7.62x39 ammunition. This is the best shooting 7.62x39 ammunition available. Features a 123grn lead core copper jacketed bullet, brass case, and berdan corrosive primer. Packed 10rds on a steel charger (stripper clip), 40rds (4 chargers) in a box, and 1,120rds (28 boxes) sealed in metal tin inside of a hinged latched wooden case. At these prices... while supplies last!

what?? where? howmuch for shipping?!
Good god man, SPEAK!
:p

metalliman545
09-12-2010, 4:39 AM
what?? where? howmuch for shipping?!
Good god man, SPEAK!
:p

check copes distributing.com i bought a case of that, m67. havent shot any yet cuz im still in iraq haha, my brother said it looks good though. clean. shipping was like 20$ or so, they did it really cheap

PhantomII
09-12-2010, 5:05 AM
what?? where? howmuch for shipping?!
Good god man, SPEAK!
:p

That was at AIM but they're sold out and from what I hear, they're not getting any more.

Cheapest price for Yugo on strippers right now is Natchez at $259 plus shipping (about $57)
(I bought a case just cuz' I wanted the strippers)

Without strippers, J&G has 1260 rounds for $209.79 plus shipping ($31).

Hadesomega
09-12-2010, 9:05 AM
Working rusted AK (Norinco Type 56-II) taken off a Somali pirate.
http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt156/rosco2009/rustyak.jpg

Haha this reminded me of Farcry 2 when you pick up enemy weapons or you weapons get old and worn out from use they get all rusty like that and then eventually they just explode on you.

Interesting the bayonet is still shiny

sd1023x
09-12-2010, 9:09 AM
Ammunition Purchase Requirements

1,120rd case (28 boxes): $179.20

Beautiful Surplus Yugoslavian 7.62x39 ammunition. This is the best shooting 7.62x39 ammunition available. Features a 123grn lead core copper jacketed bullet, brass case, and berdan corrosive primer. Packed 10rds on a steel charger (stripper clip), 40rds (4 chargers) in a box, and 1,120rds (28 boxes) sealed in metal tin inside of a hinged latched wooden case. At these prices... while supplies last!

Oh, you cut and paste the ad....what is your point?

PEZHEAD265
09-12-2010, 9:44 PM
Oh, you cut and paste the ad....what is your point?

The point is it is corrosive!You didnt think anyone made it and I was showing you it.7.62x39 PRVI Partizan factory Yugo 1999 FMJ 123 C/BE Check Samco Global he has it from the 70's and 1999 and they are both Corrosive.So now that was my point and your ?? was answered.There is tons of this ammo still floating around and will be around for years while supplies diminish.

sd1023x
09-12-2010, 10:18 PM
The point is it is corrosive!You didnt think anyone made it and I was showing you it.7.62x39 PRVI Partizan factory Yugo 1999 FMJ 123 C/BE Check Samco Global he has it from the 70's and 1999 and they are both Corrosive.So now that was my point and your ?? was answered.There is tons of this ammo still floating around and will be around for years while supplies diminish.

Over a decade ago...okay.:sleeping:

And really, how many tons of the Yugo exists? You got all this information from advertisement or are you just making assumptions?

Here is an actually somewhat researched answers to OP's question, although nothing specifically about corrosive.

http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/22/arming-both-sides-the-perils-of-ammunition-leakage-in-the-afghan-war/

http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/01/reading-rifle-magazines/

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/20/world/asia/20ammo.html?_r=1

1911ZENSHOOTER
09-13-2010, 12:31 AM
well, this video definitely shows expert use! HIGHLY trained soldiers you have there, no chance of user error whats-so-ever. Look at that technique! Im sure this is going to be on the next Magpul DVD :p

yeh right!
these guys are idiots..:smilielol5:

MrPlink
09-13-2010, 2:47 AM
yeh right!
these guys are idiots..:smilielol5:

nah, Im pretty sure they are true blue tier one operators. I didnt see any Oakleys, but Im pretty sure one of them at least had a beard, so that proves it. :D

17+1
09-13-2010, 11:33 AM
Despite popular belief.. AK's do jam. It's loose tolerances allow for larger margins of reliability. Keeping any rifle clean is priority, even AK's. Sure, its not moa accurate, but its accurate enough.

fs-OIJxDEEQ

LOL

I love how they just walk out in the open, don't use the sights, don't use a supported position...

stix213
09-13-2010, 6:04 PM
LOL

I love how they just walk out in the open, don't use the sights, don't use a supported position...

What would you need sights for when you have full auto? :p