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snuggles2/1
09-09-2010, 5:54 PM
I'm not sure what to do? I've read that that the firearm and ammo should be stored seperately, does that apply when traveling to and from the range?

Reason I ask is I have a range bag that has many pockets and wondering if it's legal to store the ammo in pocket and the handgun in the other and lock both seperately?

Sorry if I annoyed anyone, first pistol purchased and I want to do things right the first time than learn it from some LEO is writing me a ticket.

Thanks!
You're input is appreciated..

mtenenhaus
09-09-2010, 5:59 PM
We had a LEO at our range a while back and i asked him the same question as i have an SUV without a trunk.

This is what he told me. He wants to see the pistol empty, either seperately in a locked container or with a suitable lock on it. The ammo kept seperately.

So for me with a SUV I use a range bag. Within the bag there is a slot for the pistol, i keep the pistol in there with a trigger lock on it. In a seperate container within the range bag i keep the ammunition. He said that was fine.

Hope this helps.

Librarian
09-09-2010, 6:04 PM
We had a LEO at our range a while back and i asked him the same question as i have an SUV without a trunk.

This is what he told me. He wants to see the pistol empty, either seperately in a locked container or with a suitable lock on it. The ammo kept seperately.

So for me with a SUV I use a range bag. Within the bag there is a slot for the pistol, i keep the pistol in there with a trigger lock on it. In a seperate container within the range bag i keep the ammunition. He said that was fine.

Hope this helps.

Don't follow that advice.

A trigger lock has no benefit for legal concealed (in a bag or case) transport - you MUST have a completely enclosing locked container. A lock on two zipper-pull tabs on that pistol section of your range bag should suffice.

See the Wiki FAQ on transport (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/FAQ#Transportation_Questions).

snuggles2/1
09-09-2010, 6:04 PM
That really does! Thanks!

My biggest concern was going to the range looking like Paris Hilton and bringing a gangload of bags..

The Original Godfather
09-09-2010, 6:06 PM
That really does! Thanks!

My biggest concern was going to the range looking like Paris Hilton and bringing a gangload of bags..

Coach leather grips on your pistols! :p

The Original Godfather
09-09-2010, 6:15 PM
Something to think about, it's going to take too long when you're traveling on lonely roads. Things happen quick and when your gun is locked away you'll pay with your life. I know I know it's the law, but we as legal citizens need to use our own discretion, come on there is going to be times when you're traveling on roads and road stops late at night where you want your pistol tucked in your waistband or wherever while you accompany your wife and kids to the roadside rest stop. If not maybe suggest taking a pistol grip shotgun tucked away somewhere accessible in your vehicle with some buckshot hitched on to the receiver for quick loads!

UOC in your vehicle is totally legal as long as the loaded magazines are not concealed. Also, UOC in your vehicle is only legal if you are not in a GFSZ/within 1000ft of a school.

I would certainly UOC in my car if I was travelling on a backroad in the middle of nowhere. 1000ft is approximately 3-4 blocks, so as long as no schools are that close to the backroads then I'm safe.

DaveFJ80
09-09-2010, 6:21 PM
When I asked about this awhile back, some said (and also showed the PC... can't find it now) that you can keep ammo in the same case as your handgun, as long as it's locked & unaccessible and ammo is in the chamber or magwell. Thus, keeping loaded mags next to the gun, but not in the gun, is ok.

However, either way if that's true or FUD, I now just throw my loaded mags into a side compartment on my bag since I don't have room for any mags in the case with my 2 pistols.



EDIT: found the PC... 12031, Defining loaded in CA (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Defining_loaded_in_California) and also what the CHP website says about transporting a handgun with a mag in the same locked container HERE (http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/answers.html#05)

"California law does not recognize concealed weapon permits from other states; therefore, they would not be held valid. If you wish to transport a handgun during your California visit, it should be carried unloaded in a locked container. In the absence of a suitable container, you may secure the unloaded handgun in the locked trunk of a passenger car. Ammunition may be kept in the same container or trunk, but the handgun must remain unloaded with no rounds in the cylinder and no loaded magazines in the magazine well."

Old4eyes
09-09-2010, 6:27 PM
It was explained to me from a Castro Valley LEO that they want to see a lock between the gun and the ammo. You could put the gun(s) in gun rug(s), padlocked and stuff them in the bag with the ammo in the bag, unlocked, and you would meet HIS view.

And that's the trick of it, what if it is all in the trunk, guns in one bag, unlocked, ammo in another bag, unlocked. You've met the definition of transporting the gun in a locked container (the trunk) but there is not a lock between the gun and the ammo. And unfortunately, a LEO's view of the law, and/or local DA's view of the law may not be what case law has been stated, but you'll be arguing before a court to possibly get things straitened out.

It would be really nice if the legislature would write concise law, but that's asking too much from a group of pinheads.

neuron
09-09-2010, 6:33 PM
A trigger lock has no benefit for legal concealed (in a bag or case) transport - you MUST have a completely enclosing locked container [emphasis added]. A lock on two zipper-pull tabs on that pistol section of your range bag should suffice.

This is the correct advice. ;) And IF it's in a locked/enclosed container, the ammo can be stored there, too, so long as it is not "attached to" the gun...but if you want to be super-anal about it, keep the ammo somewhere else.:D

winnre
09-09-2010, 6:42 PM
How about a briefcase with a 3 digit lock with 2 digits set to unlock and the third digit just one off? Not that anyone would know...

Cokebottle
09-09-2010, 6:49 PM
It was explained to me from a Castro Valley LEO that they want to see a lock between the gun and the ammo. You could put the gun(s) in gun rug(s), padlocked and stuff them in the bag with the ammo in the bag, unlocked, and you would meet HIS view.
They can WANT to see anything they would like.

I want to see every cop give me a warning instead of a ticket.... or even better... give me a code-3 escort when they see me speeding since I'm obviously in a hurry to go somewhere.

What he WANTS to see and what the LAW SAYS are two entirely different things.

People vs Clark... case law has established that as long as the ammunition is not in a position to be fired, the weapon is considered "unloaded", and the law ONLY requires unloaded carry (either open, or in a secure, locked container).
The law says NOTHING about ammo needing to be in a secure locked container, nor outside of the gun's secure locked container.


Next time you talk to him, simply ask him "If you were to inspect my vehicle and find a loaded magazine in the locked case with my gun, but not IN my gun, what PC would you arrest me under?"

If he says 12025 or 12031, the DA would decline to press charges since those statutes do not require separation.

Cokebottle
09-09-2010, 6:51 PM
How about a briefcase with a 3 digit lock with 2 digits set to unlock and the third digit just one off? Not that anyone would know...
Locked is locked.
Unlike the "child safety lock", there is no legal definition of "secure locked container" outside of "other than a glove box or utility compartment"

The rule of thumb is that it is a secure locked container if the gun cannot be accessed without either opening a lock (and one digit would satisfy that), or damaging the container.

MASTERLAB
09-09-2010, 8:29 PM
UOC in your vehicle is totally legal as long as the loaded magazines are not concealed. Also, UOC in your vehicle is only legal if you are not in a GFSZ/within 1000ft of a school.

I would certainly UOC in my car if I was travelling on a backroad in the middle of nowhere. 1000ft is approximately 3-4 blocks, so as long as no schools are that close to the backroads then I'm safe.

just to clarify, UOC is unloaded open carry, and that would be legal as long as the gun is unloaded, the ammo is visible but not in the gun, and you are not by any school, am i correct on what you ment by this

Cokebottle
09-09-2010, 8:32 PM
just to clarify, UOC is unloaded open carry, and that would be legal as long as the gun is unloaded, the ammo is visible but not in the gun, and you are not by any school, am i correct on what you ment by this
The ammo does not have to be visible, however, any loaded magazines do have to be visible.

As far as school zones, 626.9 does not address long guns, only handguns, but the Federal GFSZ law does address long guns.

paul0660
09-09-2010, 8:39 PM
1) "other than a glove box or utility compartment"

Actually, it's "The glove box or the utility compartment". A lockbox bolted to your vehicle is not "the" utility compartment, despite some high and mighty opinions.

2)Evident in this thread are some LEOs that would make good gun store employees.

Foriegn power
09-09-2010, 11:04 PM
Hhhh

ARDude
09-09-2010, 11:24 PM
There is a paragraph on the CHP website about just this question.
http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/answers.html

Bill Carson
09-09-2010, 11:35 PM
Wow it is the weekly gun and ammo transportation post.

DaveFJ80
09-10-2010, 8:07 AM
There is a paragraph on the CHP website about just this question.
http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/answers.html

Look at post #8 that I made above. I copied & pasted the exact paragraph from that site.

sqroot3
09-10-2010, 8:21 AM
2)Evident in this thread are some LEOs that would make good gun store employees.
lol

Librarian
09-10-2010, 10:50 AM
Sometimes, I wonder about these things and all I can say is, unloaded open carry is one thing

But what is the deal to put it in a lock box, etc if open carry is okay?


First, unloaded open carry (UOC) is a bit of an oversight by the Legislature (which they tried to address this session, and failed - barely).

It exists because if one carries openly, one does not violate PC 12025, and if unloaded, one does not violate PC 12031. But you've already read in this thread that open carry is trumped by Gun Free School Zones, so the usability of UOC is quite low.

The 'locked container' is an exception to PC 12025 (concealed carry) spelled out in PC 12026.1 and PC 12026.2.

crazyryceman
09-10-2010, 11:40 AM
I usually transport my handgun in the case it came with. It does lock but has two latches that keep it closed. Is what I'm doing illegal?

norcal.xd
09-10-2010, 11:53 AM
i do the same... both my xd and hi points came in a lockable case. that is what i use with a master lock when transporting handguns in my car. oh i usually carry the case in my back pack so it is also not visible while in my car...

Cokebottle
09-10-2010, 11:57 AM
Sometimes, I wonder about these things and all I can say is, unloaded open carry is one thing. But what is the deal to put it in a lock box, etc if open carry is okay? Geez, politics and law kiss my a- hole. I know let me vent, okay there is laws that says you need to place your pistol in a locked container, okay but what about open carry? Very contradicting.. To the original person where are you headed on the road anyways?
It is not contradictory at all.

Exclusing school zones (which require ALL guns to be in a secure locked container), the law is:

Open carry is legal.

IF a gun capable of being concealed IS concealed, then it must be concealed in a secure locked container (or one of the exceptions must be met such as CCW, plaintiff in a restraining order, etc...)

The law simply states that if you conceal a gun, it must be locked up.

Cokebottle
09-10-2010, 11:58 AM
Wow it is the weekly gun and ammo transportation post.
We've had 3 this week.

Moto4Fun
09-10-2010, 7:37 PM
If you have a locked bag in you car, can a cop even inspect the contents without a warrant?

The law is a joke in this state. So I choose to transport my guns in the way that best meets my needs. I have never had a cop search my vehicle nor ask about any of my possessions during a routine traffic stop, and I don't see why that would ever change.

Cokebottle
09-11-2010, 6:53 PM
If you have a locked bag in you car, can a cop even inspect the contents without a warrant?
Maybe.

If he has reasonable suspicion or probable cause to believe that you have a gun in the vehicle, he has the right to inspect the weapon to make sure that it is unloaded and being transported legally.

Reasonable suspicion/probable cause could include items related to firearms that are in plain view... targets, ammo, etc....

If nothing is in plain view, you do not consent to a search, you do not admit that you have a gun... then he may STILL have probable cause to search, IE: You and your vehicle match the description of a person/vehicle that was involved in a robbery/rape/etc...

And that's where it gets dicey. "You look like someone we're looking for" is not an unusual excuse given for a profile stop. It's happened to me a couple of times, both driving and simply walking down the sidewalk.
If the "profile stop" reveals something that he could arrest you for, you then have to be on the ball and have your attorney obtain the records that reflect that you/your vehicle match the description of "someone they're looking for".

Some have related stories that some departments have a group of composites posted that are so general that they could be used to match nearly anyone... true or not, I don't know.

HK Dave
09-11-2010, 7:53 PM
I'm not sure what to do? I've read that that the firearm and ammo should be stored seperately, does that apply when traveling to and from the range?

Reason I ask is I have a range bag that has many pockets and wondering if it's legal to store the ammo in pocket and the handgun in the other and lock both seperately?

Sorry if I annoyed anyone, first pistol purchased and I want to do things right the first time than learn it from some LEO is writing me a ticket.

Thanks!
You're input is appreciated..

Sorry to say this but most LEO folk haven't the slightest clue what handgun laws are.

Let me spell it out to you as they are today 9/11/2010.

While in transport the handgun must be in a LOCKED container and UNLOADED. That container does NOT have to be hard sided... it simply has to be locked and not easily accessible.

The gun lock is NOT a legal means of transporting a handgun.

You CAN have ammo in the SAME container you are transporting the gun in... but it CAN NOT be in the actual handgun or in a place where it can be fired. It is LEGAL to have rounds loaded into a magazine, provided the magazine is NOT loaded into the handgun.

No where in the penal code does it specify that you can NOT have ammo in the same container.

Follow this link... it'll specify the law.

CLICK ME FOR PENAL CODE (http://www.californiaopencarry.org/CaliforniaOpenCarry.pdf)

Cokebottle
09-11-2010, 8:10 PM
While in transport the handgun, when concealed or within 1000ft of a school, must be in a LOCKED container and UNLOADED. That container does NOT have to be hard sided... it simply has to be locked and not easily accessible.
Fixed it for you ;)

Open carry is still legal as of 9/11/2010.
Perhaps still not advisable, but nevertheless, legal.

ARDude
09-12-2010, 12:46 PM
Look at post #8 that I made above. I copied & pasted the exact paragraph from that site.

Sorry Dave, I didn't notice the link you had.

Lucky Scott
09-12-2010, 2:59 PM
Not to highjack the thread, but here is a related question.

I carry my handguns in a locked soft bag that has two different pockets. I put the ammo in one pocket, and the guns in the other and then lock both zipper pull tabs to a ring on the strap with a small padlock. I think this is legal for carry, as the ammo and the guns are in seperate containers (pockets) and also locked.

My question is......I see no mention of where the key should be located.

If I am legally locked, what is the position of the law on where the key needs to be?
My pocket?, my glove compartment?, how about in a seperate side pocket on the same container? I would like to know what is the legal language concerning key location.

nn3453
09-12-2010, 3:02 PM
My question is......I see no mention of where the key should be located.

If I am legally locked, what is the position of the law on where the key needs to be?
My pocket?, my glove compartment?, how about in a seperate side pocket on the same container? I would like to know what is the legal language concerning key location.

There is none. I'd use common sense. The lock does not need to be a standard one that needs a key either. It could be a biometric, fingerprint, retinal scan, whatever. The law doesn't say anything about that. Just don't leave it in the lock, might be hard to argue your way out of that one.

Lucky Scott
09-12-2010, 4:00 PM
"Common Sense" ??????

We all know that has never worked before...........J/K