View Full Version : Am I missing something here?

James R.
05-15-2006, 4:24 PM
I was over at Ade's today picking up another Lower and he had a pair of AR's there sans pistols grips...and also sans anything on the muzzle.

I asked what was up with them and apparently someone threw them together and was offering them for sale in his shop, consignment or whatever.

Anyhow, he asserted that even with the pistol grip gone it's not legal to have a muzzle brake? That just doesn't sound right to me. I could see maybe a flash hider being a problem, but a muzzle brake? Ade said you can't put squat on the end of the rifle if you want it to remain legal...well save for a thread protector.

I wasn't going to argue the issue with him, the guy is an FFL and said he called the DOJ and asked them personally. I thought I had read the law correctly which specified that w/o a pistol grip on the rifle you should be able to have a detach mag AND a muzzle brake w/o any issues. Otherwise how the hell could you legally own an M1A? I know the M1A's are built in Cali legal versions which I presume vary from those sold in free states by differences in the design of the, "dressing" at the muzzle end.


James R.

05-15-2006, 4:35 PM
You're right, and the ffl is being pretty brave by just having those monsters exposed. I'd LOVE to see a pic of that.

05-15-2006, 4:40 PM
Soon enough, many gunshops will have off-list rifles on the shelves. It's only a matter of time. Then comes the legislative action and media frenzy :(!

James R.
05-15-2006, 4:44 PM
Yeah he had them out on display. Honestly I don't think he has anything to fear.

One was configured with a standard A2 butt stock, 20" BBL, detach mag and no grip. There was just a piece of tape holding in the detent spring and detent. The muzzle was just left with exposed threads.

The other IIRC had a Pseudo collapsing stock on it, I fiddled with it and it wouldn't collapse so I don't think it can unless I wasn't doing it right. I think this one had a 16" BBL IIRC and again, no grip just tape holding the spring in and the muzzle was left with exposed threads.

I think the guy who dropped them off there wanted $1200 for each of them. Honestly, not to rip on his effort (which I appreciate)...but he could stand to work on his technique with the punches and what not. I built my first lower on Friday and despite how difficult those roll pins are, I did manage to put the lower together, drove the pins in all the way (aka equal lengths on each side of the holes) w/o marring the finish of my receiver whatsoever. All it takes is plenty of tape, PROPERLY sized brass and steel punches, brass hammer and a patient, "no need to rush" demeanor. I punched in the bolt release one entirely using the punches...the trigger guard I did using a combination of a plastic jawed Panavise and drove it the rest of the way with a steel punch.

IMHO go ahead and use the brass ones right up to the very moment you start driving the pin down the hole. Sure you might mushroom the punch head a bit, but big whoop...you can reprofile it on a grinder in about 2 seconds, good as new. I'd rather damage a $2 brass punch than a $200 lower receiver.


James R.

05-15-2006, 4:50 PM
There may be a A.T.F. issue if the excise tax isn't paid on those completed firearms.

James R.
05-15-2006, 5:04 PM
Is there any need to pay an excise tax? If someone buys the parts and builds a finished rifle out of them then offers them up for consignement sale you're dealing with a private party transfer. I don't think Ade is selling them himself, he's offering a customers gun for sale at which point the transaction is a PP transfer with Ade acting as the FFL in the middle.

Seems Kosher to me...


James R.

05-15-2006, 5:52 PM
If you build less than 51 units a year, you are exempt from paying excise taxes on fully built rifles.

05-15-2006, 6:00 PM
I LOVE the tape grip :D! That's some hardcore garage gunsmithing technique there for ya :)!

05-15-2006, 7:14 PM
I'm working on a something similar to the tape grip but with cosmoline.

James R.
05-15-2006, 7:29 PM
LOL I don't mean the grip was made of tape. I mean that he used a piece of tape to hold in the detent spring. It was absolutely not functional...the safety was just kinda loose flopping around. I think the guy intended for someone to put on an SRB or just throw on the grip law be damned or fix the mag or whatever.


James R.