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lazs
09-08-2010, 12:03 PM
Since this is a pretty much self defense oriented forum...The new Rifleman has a good article on self defense using the old single action revolver. The course was a three day course at gunsite.

Some interesting points. No.. you can't reload fast. Yes. the guns are mostly in calibers that get the job done with one or two shots anyway. They even admitted that most gunfights only last one or two shots.

The article pointed out that the single action revolver is still the fastest gun from leather to first shot.. Mostly that means.. blink of an eye. You can draw and fire (with practice) before a human has time to react.

They also changed a lot of the standards. On the one hand, they made reload a low priority but don't get too smug plastic gun fans.. they also stretched the shooting ranges out to 90 yards. The low end of the shooting distances was higher than the high end for the "combat" guns.

Agree or not, a man who is armed with a single action revolver is not undergunned. Not on the street in any case. Maybe in a war or for some forms of police work.

Plus.. single actions are just fun.

Blood Ocean
09-08-2010, 12:05 PM
"Beware the man who has only one gun, he probably knows how to use it." I keep my Blackhawk .357 in the holster/belt rig next to the bed, I can put an eye out at 50 feet with it.

OneSevenDeuce
09-08-2010, 12:08 PM
I have thought about a single action revolver for HD before. I honestly don't think it would be any less effective than any other revolver. One was even in contention for my HD gun when I was making that determination, and I would not feel uneasy about using one in a defensive role. The thing that turned the table towards an auto loader was simply my familiarity with them.

viet4lifeOC
09-08-2010, 12:21 PM
read the NY guy with an AK-47 being verbally harrassed by 20+ gang members threatening his family's life?

nn3453
09-08-2010, 12:35 PM
Keep convincing yourself of that.

Go watch some guys at IDPA/IPSC nationals and then come back and talk about "plastic guns." Keep convincing yourself that you are a better shooter than a competent shooter with a modern semi-auto. Go talk to any experienced cop and ask him if he will carry 1 or 2 rounds and a single action, or as much ammo as he can as his "plastic gun." Yeah, sure, you probably think most cops can't shoot anyway and you're the best damn shooter off of your little bench where you park your butt.

You claim that most gunfights involve 1 to 2 shots, yet you conveniently left out that you will almost never engage targets at 90yd with a handgun.

Stop categorizing people into "plastic gun" people and single action people. A shooter is a shooter. If you cannot handle the former, it is your limitation. A good shooter doesn't care what is put into his hands. We're tired of your trolling and little selection bias. You're not convincing anyone but if you keep repeating it enough time, you just might convince yourself.

OneSevenDeuce
09-08-2010, 12:38 PM
Keep convincing yourself of that.

Go watch some guys at IDPA/IPSC nationals and then come back and talk about "plastic guns." Keep convincing yourself that you are a better shooter than a competent shooter with a modern semi-auto. Go talk to any experienced cop and ask him if he will carry 1 or 2 rounds and a single action, or as much ammo as he can as his "plastic gun." Yeah, sure, you probably think most cops can't shoot anyway and you're the best damn shooter off of your little bench where you park your butt.

You claim that most gunfights involve 1 to 2 shots, yet you conveniently left out that you will almost never engage targets at 90yd with a handgun.

Stop categorizing people into "plastic gun" people and single action people. A shooter is a shooter. If you cannot handle the former, it is your limitation. A good shooter doesn't care what is put into his hands. We're tired of your trolling and little selection bias. You're not convincing anyone but if you keep repeating it enough time, you just might convince yourself.

Seems like a disproportionate response. Yeah, there was a comments about "plastic" in there, but it wasn't overly derisive or trolling in nature. Sure, this poster has sometimes been a d bag in the past, but this is not one of those times.

Fishslayer
09-08-2010, 12:38 PM
And the sound of the hammer going back will immediately make the BG poop his drawers...:D

Personally, I wouldn't feel at all uncomfortable if my only weapon was a .45LC SA...

BigDogatPlay
09-08-2010, 12:41 PM
A shooter is a shooter. If you cannot handle the former, it is your limitation. A good shooter doesn't care what is put into his hands.

Quite right... I don't care, so long as it goes bang I can be, and usually am, effective with it. And I often choose a good quality DA revolver ahead of more 'modern' semi-autos. Does that meke less of a shooter?

It's a personal preference thing. To paraphrase the words of Clint Smith, bring any gun you want, learn how to run that gun as effectively as it can be run.

Kceads
09-08-2010, 12:43 PM
Stop watching the bad *** quick draw guy on the History channel who fires in a no stress situation. Use a semi auto and consider the other 16 rounds as a bonus Mr. dead eye.

OneSevenDeuce
09-08-2010, 12:44 PM
Stop watching the bad *** quick draw guy on the History channel who fires in a no stress situation. Use a semi auto and consider the other 16 rounds as a bonus Mr. dead eye.

Bob Munden :D

viet4lifeOC
09-08-2010, 12:49 PM
[QUOTE=Fishslayer;4923596]And the sound of the hammer going back will immediately make the BG poop his drawers...:D QUOTE]

In most cases..yes.

but again--read the article of the NY guy needing to shoot a round(s) into the lawn to scare off 20+ gang members. They didn't give a shiiet nor pooped in there pants.

It's true--that was an unusual case. But these are the cases that the more ammo--the better.

True--a BG hearing a shot gun pumped or a SA cocked will probably run off, but he would probably run off if you threatened to call the police and shoot the intruder if he/she continues trying to get in your house.

OneSevenDeuce
09-08-2010, 12:52 PM
What's all this talk of 16 rounds magazines and AKs? We live in California. You can only have 10 anyway...

gorenut
09-08-2010, 12:54 PM
Yea, shoot whatever you shoot best with. At the end of the day, 90+% of the perps out there really don't want any confrontation. Any gun will scare em away to run. If you happen to be able to shoot a gun with more rounds better, it'd be beneficial. I'm sure if a SA specialist could get a revolver with 10 rounds and still function exactly as a 6 rounder, he would. I own steel, plastic, semi, wheel.. I like em all and don't categorize any quality as inferior to another.

Snapping Twig
09-08-2010, 1:24 PM
My personal choice for SD is a 1911. Not hi cap or whizzbang. I have actually used a P 220 in anger, but the sight of the pistol stopped hostilities and no shots were fired.

I have trained under pressure with my 1911 (Gunsite) several times and I am confident that I would rise to the challenge due to the training under adverse conditions.

That said, any revolver or pistol in the hands of someone with the commitment to use it would be sufficient and there are advantages and disadvantages to every weapon selection.

"Plastic" pistols have the advantage of large capacity, dependability, fast reload, fast follow-up with SA triggers.

"Hog legs" have the advantage of big fat mortar balls and relatively fast follow-up.

Double action revolvers hare powerful and accurate. I can hit a moving object at 100 yards with any of my .44mags, that's not saying I'm a bullseye shooter, just saying I can hit things under those condition relatively near where I'm aiming.

With that in mind, most encounters are @ 7 yards and for civilians, we can not engage anything that's not endangering our lives. So, a fleeing opponent or someone at distance is going to cost us if we engage them.

Now, in the highly unlikely event that someone is taking shots at us at distance and all we have is a sidearm, THEN a powerful SA or DA revolver makes sense. A rifle would be best, but we're talking handguns at this time.
Under this scenario, a hi cap 9 would be limited, but not useless by any stretch. A hit with a light round beats the pants off a miss with a big round.

So, in my roundabout way I'm saying - use what ya got. Practice until your eyes bleed.

Shot placement is king, penetration is queen and all else is angels dancing on the head of a pin.

viet4lifeOC
09-08-2010, 1:52 PM
Yea, shoot whatever you shoot best with. At the end of the day, 90+% of the perps out there really don't want any confrontation. Any gun will scare em away to run. If you happen to be able to shoot a gun with more rounds better, it'd be beneficial. I'm sure if a SA specialist could get a revolver with 10 rounds and still function exactly as a 6 rounder, he would. I own steel, plastic, semi, wheel.. I like em all and don't categorize any quality as inferior to another.

dittos to that. I am new to gun ownership. I don't really have a particular gun type or maker that I am a die hard fan of (however, I am leaning more towards Sigs and 1911 style). Whatever gets the job done. Under stress of life or death..I just want a gun that goes bang, big .45 round, easy to manipulate. That said..I have never been a fan of the Glock, but am planning to buy a G17, G34, or G35. It might or might not be my go to gun..but I am definately going to give it a try due to its reputation of reliablity.

RedFord150
09-08-2010, 2:17 PM
We all keep reading over and over that a 'Hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .45'. This means that your primary HD weapon should be the one you shoot best with.
My Dad was a hunter and Korean War Vet. He was on the front lines from 1950 to 1952. I know he took a few lives.
The only weapons he ever owned in my lifetime were a single shot 12 gauge SG and a Daisy BB Gun. He hated handguns and could not shoot them worth a cr&p. Give him a long gun and he could shoot the fleas off a running dog. I doubt the first BG through the door would live to tell the story.
Your money, your life...no need to impress us.

cmace22
09-08-2010, 2:51 PM
Some interesting points. No.. you can't reload fast. Yes. the guns are mostly in calibers that get the job done with one or two shots anyway. They even admitted that most gunfights only last one or two shots.

Its about shot placement more than caliber anyways so your comment is moot.


The article pointed out that the single action revolver is still the fastest gun from leather to first shot.. Mostly that means.. blink of an eye. You can draw and fire (with practice) before a human has time to react.

Why would a revolver be any faster than any other single action? Does it have better aerodynamics?????? Did they test out other single actions and if so what are they and what are the times?


They also changed a lot of the standards. On the one hand, they made reload a low priority but don't get too smug plastic gun fans.. they also stretched the shooting ranges out to 90 yards. The low end of the shooting distances was higher than the high end for the "combat" guns.

You know there are plenty of people that can shoot a "plastic gun" out past 90 yards accurately dont you.


Agree or not, a man who is armed with a single action revolver is not undergunned. Not on the street in any case. Maybe in a war or for some forms of police work.

Undergunned no. He also wouldnt have an advantage if he wasnt a quick draw expert.


Now a wild west gunfighter vs todays gunfighters in an old west toe to toe standoff...... Who knows, Im thinking the cowboy may have an advantage.

Black Majik
09-08-2010, 2:53 PM
Just out of curiousity, what is this mysterious article you speak of?

tacticalcity
09-08-2010, 3:03 PM
Definitely would NOT be my first choice. There is a conceptual issue regarding self defense discussions with fans of revolvers vs. fans of semi-auto handguns. The revolver guys always imagine having to take on one or two guys tops and act like we semi-auto guys are nuts when ask how they would handle a mass threat. With gang activity being what it is I don't believe it is smart to assume the number of hostiles will always be a low number. I am not saying every encounter will be with a ragging hoard of bad guys (or even that you'll ever need to use your firearm in self defense). I am just saying, I'd like to know I'm not tying my hands behind my back should that scenario happen. I like knowing the tool I have will handle the solitary attacker or group of attackers equally. That's why I train with a semi-auto and practice engaging multiple targets, emergency reloads, tactical reloads, cover and communication drills, all kinds of extreme stuff. It prepares you for the absolute worst case scenario (and it is a lot of fun). For a backup, a double action revolver is great. They can make some really small revolvers that use a decent caliber round. So they can be hidden very easily and unobtrusively and the hard trigger pull adds a degree of safety needed in a backup. Not crazy about a revolver as a primary regardless of the action type.

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to own an old fashioned single action revolver just for the sake of owning one (or more). The history behind the old west guns is appealing and if I could afford it I would love to own a museum quality piece and a modern one for having fun and training. Neither would not be listed on my CCW however.

Droc101
09-08-2010, 3:19 PM
Bob Munden :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE1AKixLXO8

ianS
09-08-2010, 3:28 PM
They may or may not be undergunned under certain situations but they are certainly purposely putting themselves at a disadvantage for all other potential situations. A DA revolver or semi-auto are simply more efficient, more effective and dare I say more simple to USE under stress than a SA revolver all other things being equal.

-DA revolver or semi are better and safer for holding a suspect or intruder at gunpoint or various home defense scenarios.

-Decocking hammer easier to screw up under stress/adrenaline then say, simply flipping safety, decocking, or finger off trigger and holster.

-Slower and less efficient with a handheld light or shooting one handed which may often be the case for self defense.

-Potentially slower follow up shots and easier to screw up esp. at contact distances under stress. DA revolver or semi-auto simply requires repeatedly pulling trigger. All you need is practice? Practice with a more effective weapon.

-I might need more than 6 (5 actually if you want to carry a traditional SA revolver safely). Unloading and reloading a SA revolver in a self defense situation plain sucks. No other way to describe it.

racky
09-08-2010, 3:30 PM
Just out of curiousity, what is this mysterious article you speak of?

i just read it. it's in the latest american rifleman magazine. you get it if you're a NRA member.

ianS
09-08-2010, 3:46 PM
i just read it. it's in the latest american rifleman magazine. you get it if you're a NRA member.

Yep, I saw it too. I hope its doesn't catch on. Gunsite is not doing their students any favors by pushing a class like this. For fun. Sure. But seriously?

Black Majik
09-08-2010, 3:53 PM
i just read it. it's in the latest american rifleman magazine. you get it if you're a NRA member.

Thanks. I may have to stop B&N/Borders to see what all the hype is about. :D

Flouncer
09-08-2010, 4:55 PM
HiPoint or Nothing !! :26:

GŁnter
09-08-2010, 5:02 PM
Basicly, the Single-Action Revolver is Outdated but not Obsolete ;)

nazgulnarsil
09-08-2010, 5:10 PM
that blink of an eye deployment they are talking about requires both hands. if you are using one hand you will be fractionally slower than an auto as you must cock the hammer with your thumb (i assume no one would have a cocked SA revolver sitting by the bed.

I can't help but think someone took the finale of Expendables a little too seriously and came up with this article.

1JimMarch
09-08-2010, 6:28 PM
Well as somebody who does daily-carry a Ruger New Vaquero in 357, I ought to speak up.

I like this gun. A lot. I've owned it since 2005, I've been modifying it ever since, it's turned into a part of me. And it's beyond "funky". But it works.

Is a Glock 40 a better weapon overall? You bet. No question. But do I *need* a Glock 40? Not really. I'm a friggin' computer tech, not Rambo.

Here's an interesting comparison. Most people who carry daily but who aren't "warriors by trade" carry something like a J-frame-ish 38Spl, or a pocket .380. I have only six rounds, but they're monsters: Doubletap Ammo's full-house-and-then-some 357 with Gold Dot projectiles doing 1,600fps or better, deep into 10mm power levels and they sound like God's own fart going off. Am I better armed than somebody with a snubby 38 or a Keltec 380? Yeah. I seriously think so. True, I'm carrying a 42oz gun...but hell, I'm 6'4" and dang near 300lbs :). Carried right, that kind of weight doesn't bother me...and I like the fact that it's one truly terrifying piece, much moreso than a pocket pistol.

The fact that I like this gun leads to one more little detail:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4032/4258670614_6340197613_z.jpg

I've had people chuckle on seeing this open carry in a high forward crossdraw, then stare at that grip frame and go all serious lookin'.

I know full well there's problems this critter can't solve...but...really, not all that many, percentage-wise.

sac-gunslinger
09-08-2010, 8:39 PM
Here is a question for those of you concerned about a large number of assailants attacking you.

IF they are close enough for you to respond with a pistol and IF they are all shooting at you (that is the only reason you would want to shoot all of them, isn't it?)...

...how do you expect to survive that many assailants? All the rounds in the world do not allow you to engage all the targets simultaneously. While you are shooting at two or three on the left the three or four on the right are shooting AT you. These guys don't stand around waiting to be shot the way the bad guys on television do. You had best be beating a (hasty) tactical retreat. The odds are significantly against you.

scarville
09-08-2010, 8:58 PM
Is that a "ghost ring" sight on that Vaquero? I put the "one ragged hole" insert on several of my Rugers and now I wish I could get something like it for a S&W.

BTW, last time I checked my dad still carries the Ruger Blackhawk he got for Christmas in 1970. He has other guns but that one is his favorite for everyday carry around the homestead. My EDC piece is usually a J-frame so I'm not one of the kewl kids either ;)

1JimMarch
09-08-2010, 9:00 PM
...how do you expect to survive that many assailants? All the rounds in the world do not allow you to engage all the targets simultaneously. While you are shooting at two or three on the left the three or four on the right are shooting AT you. These guys don't stand around waiting to be shot the way the bad guys on television do. You had best be beating a (hasty) tactical retreat. The odds are significantly against you.

THANK YOU! A note of sanity!

One actual solution that sometimes works: take the nastiest, biggest, loudest attacker and kill them in spectacular fashion. A full-house 357 JHP packing 1/3rd more energy than anything in 40S&W upside the head just might do it.

1JimMarch
09-08-2010, 9:14 PM
Is that an "ghost ring" sight on that Vaquero? I put the "one ragged hole" insert on several of my Rugers and now I wish I could get something like it for a S&W.

Sigh.

OK, here we go :).

Goshen Enterprises makes the "Hexsite" for Glocks and such - world's best handgun sight, end of story:

http://www.goshen-hexsite.com/index2.htm

Tim Sheehan doesn't make 'em for single action revolvers :D. So I showed him my first attempt at a clone. He laughed his a... ok...butt off, invited me up to his shop in Sedona AZ to check out his real ones and gave me permission to develop my own testbed critter on this gun, for myself only. After a lot of work, I'm up to the infamous "Goshdarn Hacksite" Mk4:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2793/4258670610_57f5801536.jpg

At the time that pic was taken I was experimenting with a slightly off-center hex insert (chopped-up piece of socket). I've since straightened it. Looking through the sight in a typical Weaver hold, I can't see the inside of the tube at all. It's just a sun-shade and protective cover.

This is without question the best sight I've ever used. Tim's concept called for a target-focused sight usage instead of front-sight-focus, and it works in large part because of the hex rear aperture. Even with the front and rear sights fuzzy, they line up automatically and accurately. I can even use 'em with my glasses off fairly well - and I'm nearsighted.

Part of the recipe calls for no glinting. Real Hexsites get there with a high-tech polymer coat over steel cores or bases. I got there with the tube :D. It seriously works. Needs custom leather which I've gotten into as a result, but it's ridiculously slick on the draw because there's no front sight hump at all. Real Hexsites fit in standard leather.

I paid a local machinist $60 to build the "Hacksite Mk5", after begging Tim to let me build it. It's not installed yet, been too busy during election season. Once on, I won't be able to post pics and the leather will be specially built to hide it...because it's based on concepts Tim came up with but hasn't used himself yet. Oh well :). Life on the edge I guess.

It is one sick, freaky and effective-as-hell setup.

nn3453
09-08-2010, 9:21 PM
...how do you expect to survive that many assailants? All the rounds in the world do not allow you to engage all the targets simultaneously. While you are shooting at two or three on the left the three or four on the right are shooting AT you. These guys don't stand around waiting to be shot the way the bad guys on television do. You had best be beating a (hasty) tactical retreat. The odds are significantly against you.

If you have talked to actual people who have been there, done that, under stress your shooting skills are going to degrade by a significant factor. Adrenaline is a hell of a thing. You hear about cops who are good shooters at the range not score decent hits under stress. Heck, you see guys who can shoot tiny little groups when shooting nice and slow at the range, freeze at a match when the buzzer goes off, or make simple mistakes. I've done that my first few matches.

So yeah, capacity and reloads do matter. But training (not bench rest @ 90yd, that so-called "Rambo" training) matters.

JanG
09-08-2010, 11:36 PM
Here is a question for those of you concerned about a large number of assailants attacking you.

IF they are close enough for you to respond with a pistol and IF they are all shooting at you (that is the only reason you would want to shoot all of them, isn't it?)...

...how do you expect to survive that many assailants? All the rounds in the world do not allow you to engage all the targets simultaneously. While you are shooting at two or three on the left the three or four on the right are shooting AT you. These guys don't stand around waiting to be shot the way the bad guys on television do. You had best be beating a (hasty) tactical retreat. The odds are significantly against you.

situations like these makes one wish we could get a glock 18 :D

JohnnyCrash
09-09-2010, 1:07 AM
90 yards?!

If you have a house that is 90 yards long you're Bill Gates. Get a shotgun for home defense.

Let's consider some typical defensive scenarios.

1. They're in your house looking for goodies. Probably only 1-2 assailants. They probably have "plastic" 9mm's. It's late and dark.

2. You hear racket on the front lawn as a neighbor is being attacked by a gang. 2+ assailants, various weapons.

Scenario #1 - Sure some single actions have calibers that'll stop em better, but you still don't need 90 yards - unless you live in a friggen arena. The criminal likely sucks at shooting. After all, if he could afford regular trips to the range why would he need your valuables? - hell he probably shoots sideways gangsta style. He's also scared/startled and unfamiliar with the house (unless he's high) - you are not. The sound of a racking shotgun might make him leave. If he attacks, he'll be firing wildly, but will have more rounds in his "plastic" 9mm than your SA. In other words, who cares what gun? Have a gun, any gun, with a stopping load, SA, DA, or "plastic" - and be familiar enough with it to get out an accurate shot(s) first... or simply aim a shotgun down the hallway, keep it tight in your shoulder, and let your finger do the talking :)

Scenario #2 - you're SOL. Call the cops ASAP, have a shotty and a handgun, and keep them talking/distracted until help arrives... or IDK, that's sorta a no-win. 10 gangbangers, even wildly, unloading in your direction and it doesn't matter what you're packin'.

dennab
09-09-2010, 3:20 AM
Why knock the SAA's? Lots of shooters (me included) enjoy shooting these as much as the more modern semi's. Besides, a .357 piece of flying lead is considered by many to be the best perp stopper. They're are sexy as hell and always get attention at the range. As a neighbor to the Gunsite facility, I can attest to the complete competence, professionalism and ingenuity of their staff and their courses. After reading that review, I only wish I had an extra grand lying around so I could take this course!

PEZHEAD265
09-09-2010, 6:06 AM
If my house was 90 yards long I would have a AK for hd.The nearest house would be acres away LOL.A SA revolver is better then a sharp stick for most of us.It is the best weapon in the hands of somebody who really knows how to use it.This is something that not going to be happen by just taking a 3 day class.The SA shooter has many many years shooting it and the guns are tricked out to perform as fast as they do.The worst thing about using a SA for HD that in a stressed out situation the shooter may forget to cock the hammer back.

scarville
09-09-2010, 9:25 AM
Sigh.

OK, here we go :).

Goshen Enterprises makes the "Hexsite" for Glocks and such - world's best handgun sight, end of story:

http://www.goshen-hexsite.com/index2.htm

Thanks for the information. I'm looking for something like the Hexsite or One Ragged Hole for a S&W 686. Given my astigmatism and right hand/left eye dominance, certain kinds of sights work better for me. Forward mounted scopes -- AKA the "scout" scope -- on rifles and, experience with the ORH sight on the Rugers makes me pretty certain, a ghost ring type of sight on handguns.

The website doesn't mention revolvers or anything with adjustable sights but it can't hurt to ask.

Wherryj
09-09-2010, 9:25 AM
And the sound of the hammer going back will immediately make the BG poop his drawers...:D

Personally, I wouldn't feel at all uncomfortable if my only weapon was a .45LC SA...

I wouldn't count too heavily upon that as a deterrent.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm

"4. I "racked" the shotgun several times during the tests, and no bystanders lost control of their bowels.
Conclusion: Racking a shotgun will not make the bad guy faint."

I was led to believe that racking a shotgun was even scarier than cocking a handgun?

D.M.C.
09-09-2010, 9:30 AM
Stop watching the bad *** quick draw guy on the History channel who fires in a no stress situation. Use a semi auto and consider the other 16 rounds as a bonus Mr. dead eye.


If you're running 16 rounds in a magazine, better hope they aren't stamped after 2000. Honestly the sheer chutzpa of people who think they can smartly wink and lie around the law here is amazing.

*Edit*

I'll add that when it comes to defense, my handgun exists solely for me to fight my way to my rifle. If my rifle is available, then I'm hunkering down with a cel phone dialed to 911 and waiting for the cavalry to arrive. The Walter Mitty fantasies some folks have about fighting a gang of hoodlums while packing a full-size high-cap pistol are pointless to argue with. And the OP was simply commenting on the 'against the grain of accepted wisdom' that Gunsite and the Rifleman magazine article were pointing out, that the SA gun is not entirely without use. But hell, *any* firearm is not entirely without use and purpose so long as you KNOW HOW TO USE IT. Train with what you have, become exceptional with it, HAVE A PLAN and don't sweat the 'What If?' fantasies that get thrown out by mall ninjas for mental masturbation.

As tired as people might be of newb questions and/or trolling or simply unpopular opinions, when the OP wasn't out of line in this thread, dog-piling and being a dick are out of line.

PEZHEAD265
09-09-2010, 9:31 AM
I wouldn't count too heavily upon that as a deterrent.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm

"4. I "racked" the shotgun several times during the tests, and no bystanders lost control of their bowels.
Conclusion: Racking a shotgun will not make the bad guy faint."

I was led to believe that racking a shotgun was even scarier than cocking a handgun?

I Second that!!!! You might as well get one of those laser light pointers and hope that scares the poop out of him too.

lazs
09-09-2010, 3:54 PM
Some good points and.. some revealingly sensitive comments.

Those who say that any gun you are good with is the "best" gun are absolutely correct.

Capacity? I thought this was a kalifornia forum? we get 10 shots max. some revolvers hold 8 single actions 6. The gunfights that are a zillion rounds are almost always police spraying and hitting nothing.. they are in a different situation tho. The bad guy knows that running away won't work.. that cop is not going to say "whew.. he ran off.. lucky me." Nope.. the guy is maybe facing his third strike and the cop is who is gonna put him away for life. We have it a lot better than that.

For those who say their homes are not 90 yards long.. I urge you to get out and smell some outdoors. Take a hike or go plinking or hunting out... out.. there... for in the home just about any handgun of adequate caliber is fine.

And that is the point.. I think Gunsite is doing a service. I think that while a plastic gun may be a tad "better" for some self defense situations.. not all.. that you need to not get too hung up on the equipment. In the end.. it is caliber and energy and will.

I still hear how 44 mags will shoot through 5 houses so are not good for "self defense" Mine won't shoot through five houses.

In short.. if you.. as a civilian.. can't get it done with 6 big bore shots.. what makes you think ten will do the trick?