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View Full Version : New Sig, possible problem but not sure


ChrisToad
09-08-2010, 2:13 AM
Hey gang... First off, I wanted to post this over on sigForum.com but the moderator hasn't approved my account yet (weeks now, ugh).

I recently picked up a new stainless P220. I'm experiencing an 'issue' which I wasn't expecting to encounter. I'll describe below:

When re-installing the slide after a field strip, the ejector gets caught on the backside of the slide and doesn't allow the slide to move into position. What's happening is that there is some lateral 'play' in the slide catch / ejector. Of course it's supposed to move up and down, but not left and right. If that piece is too far to the right (leaning toward the inside of the frame), the slide gets caught on it.

So I called Sig Sauer to speak to a tech about it... And the guy on the phone basically says that nowadays a lot of the parts are stamped (cheaper), and not to worry about it. I accepted his explanation, but felt sorta 'meh' about it afterward. I mean, afterall this pistol was almost twice the cost of my other ones and they have a fixed ejector (no problems).

Sig owners, have you experienced this? Should I get over it and not care as the Sig Sauer tech suggested? I hope I was clear in my description of the issue. I can post a video if needed.

Thanks in advance for any help / info!!

CT

9mmepiphany
09-08-2010, 6:45 AM
I've owned my 220 for over 20 years and never noticed that problem.

I just took it out to check and discovered that there is enough sideways "play" in the ejector to stop the slide...I really never notice. I do note that I have to be pressing the slide stop inward to make it happen, it clears if left static. I check all three of my 220s

The slide top and ejector combination has always been stamped, it isn't a new cost saving step, and was considered a modern production innovation when it was introduced...along with the stamped and welded slide. the stamping is quite complex in it's shape and design.

It is a holdover from the original 220 as the 226 has a fixed ejector

BSlacker
09-08-2010, 7:16 AM
When the slide is removed the lateral play of the ejector/slide stop is limited by the shape of the slide stop pad where it goes over the grip. When the slide is installed in the normal shooting position the ejector is supported by a small cut in the under side of the slide and it can't move over. When the slide is removed the ejector/slide catch pad should contact the grip before it gets that far right. Is your slide stop pad very close to the grip? So, your Sig is good to go right now but if you want just order a new slide stop and see if it works more to your liking. Or after getting a spare you can bend yours a little towards the grips. If it breaks you will have a spare. Pics?

ChrisToad
09-08-2010, 10:30 AM
Super valuable feedback. When I get home tonight I'll investigate the 'pad' positioning you mentioned. I want to be sure I'm understanding you clearly, the 'pad' is the flat surface facing me that i stick my thumb on when I want to lock the slide back, right?

I'll post some pics tonight, or even a video if I'm feeling frisky.

Thanks all... Stand by for an update.

BSlacker
09-08-2010, 11:48 AM
Yes, the little pad you use to manipulate the slide lever to hold open or release the slide. It should just float above the grip panel. During use this "play" is not important. :)

ChrisToad
09-08-2010, 1:18 PM
Ok, here's an update with some pics, and yes... a video!

I hope this illustrates what I think we all understood from my original post. I included my commentary in the video.

Video:
9.4mb Quicktime (from iPhone)
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/163037/p220-slidecatch.mov

I left the pics at full resolution:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/163037/p220-1.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/163037/p220-2.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/163037/p220-3.jpg

If I do decide to manipulate the angle of the 'pad', is it an easy job to get that part out of the pistol for work? I'm guessing I could find a disassembly guide online. I'd hate to void the warranty though...

BSlacker
09-08-2010, 3:16 PM
Put the Sig grip panel back on and see if it is the same. :)

The Original Godfather
09-08-2010, 3:28 PM
Ya, seems like its the new grip you installed. It could be that the rubber grip is just a hair too thick. In fact, from watching the video, and more specifically, from the look of your second picture, you can actually see the rubber grip bowing towards the middle area under the slide release lever. You can see that there is a significant amount of empty space between the frame of the pistol and the grip due to the rubber grip bowing.


Take a razor blade and maybe trim just the slightest amount of skin off of that rubber grip underneath the slide release lever area and you should be fine :)

ChrisToad
09-08-2010, 3:32 PM
Put the Sig grip panel back on and see if it is the same. :)

No gots! The Hogue grip came factory installed. Via google search, that seems consistent with what other P220 stainless had installed.

Valuable suggestion though... I wish I knew someone that would let me try em out just for kicks as opposed to having to buy a set of grips.

The Original Godfather
09-08-2010, 3:40 PM
No gots! The Hogue grip came factory installed. Via google search, that seems consistent with what other P220 stainless had installed.

Valuable suggestion though... I wish I knew someone that would let me try em out just for kicks as opposed to having to buy a set of grips.

If you don't have another set of grips, just remove the current grips and see if the slide will close on its own. At least this way you can isolate the cause of the problem to the grips or not...

See my above post.

ChrisToad
09-08-2010, 3:42 PM
Ya, seems like its the new grip you installed. It could be that the rubber grip is just a hair too thick. In fact, from watching the video, and more specifically, from the look of your second picture, you can actually see the rubber grip bowing towards the middle area under the slide release lever. You can see that there is a significant amount of empty space between the frame of the pistol and the grip due to the rubber grip bowing.
Take a razor blade and maybe trim just the slightest amount of skin off of that rubber grip underneath the slide release lever area and you should be fine :)

I see what you're saying... but I think cutting down the grip will exacerbate the problem, not solve it. To elaborate, In my case the slide lock pad never comes in contact with the grip at all... What BSlacker is suggesting, is that contact with the grip actually pulls/holds that slide lock against the inside edge of the frame, eliminating the problem. Its important to echo as in the post above, the Hogue grips came factory installed.

If you don't have another set of grips, just remove the current grips and see if the slide will close on its own. At least this way you can isolate the cause of the problem to the grips or not...

I'll definitely try this tonight and report back.

BSlacker
09-08-2010, 6:53 PM
If you don't have another set of grips, just remove the current grips and see if the slide will close on its own. At least this way you can isolate the cause of the problem to the grips or not..To start there is not a problem. If you don't touch the slide lock during reassembly it will work. You must let the lever float so it self aligns.
The grips don't cause an issue. It is cause by the owner pushing the lever to the right during reassembly. Don't do that.
Just let it float when putting the slide back on and it should work fine.
This issue has nothing to do with the operation of the P220. :)

ChrisToad
09-09-2010, 2:15 AM
To start there is not a problem. If you don't touch the slide lock during reassembly it will work. You must let the lever float so it self aligns.
The grips don't cause an issue. It is cause by the owner pushing the lever to the right during reassembly. Don't do that.
Just let it float when putting the slide back on and it should work fine.
This issue has nothing to do with the operation of the P220. :)

Just as an update. I removed the grips this evening and that yielded no change as I had suspected.

BSlacker, you're 100% correct... the only gripe I have is that even if I don't touch it, the natural rest position is 'bad' for lack of a better term. The 'float' and 'self align' doesn't really seem to happen.

Oh well, I'm sorta over it at this juncture unless some other great idea comes up.

nan
09-09-2010, 9:12 AM
This is my first post but here is my take. I think that your slide catch lever assembly is not right. I own 3 German P-series Sigs(P220 and 2 P6s). I looked at all of them and the assembly rests flush to the frame. there is play if you wiggle them, but if you let it alone it rests against the frame. So at rest, the catch that hangs on your slide, does not do so on my guns. on all of my sigs the catch has about 1 mm of clearance in the groove and does not interfere with the slide.

Getting to the lever is not actually that hard. if you follow this guys youtube videos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AZyngxd37s&feature=related you could examine it more closely. The P-series guns are all derived from the P220 so the video is applicable, with differences due to age and features (like having the internal or external extractor).

-nan

Grayblue
09-09-2010, 9:23 AM
P220 has an ejector that is supposed to move? Strange.

I guess P220 has a design different from other SIG in that case.

P226 and P229 has a fixed ejector. It does not move in any direction.

9mmepiphany
09-09-2010, 9:55 AM
I guess P220 has a design different from other SIG in that case.

yes they do. from the owners manual, the 220 has a combo (part#18), while the 226 has a separate ejector (part #32)

nan
09-09-2010, 12:43 PM
so i played with my p220 some more, and i can almost replicate your issue. when i press the slide catch down, without the slide on the frame. the entire assembly will sit towards the middle rather than rest along the frame. but on my gun it won't go in far enough to really catch, it will rub the breech block a bit then pop back into the groove.

but really the entire assembly is connected to the frame from one pivot attached to the trigger pin so there is nothing to stop it from moving to far in except for the locking insert.

here is a pic of the slide catch lever in the correct position

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr8/nan_kho/p220ejector.jpg

here is a pic of the slide catch without the locking insert

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr8/nan_kho/p220_SC_no.jpg

as you can see the slide catch lever should be flat against the frame.

-nan

civilsnake
09-09-2010, 1:05 PM
Mine does the same thing. When reassembling just make sure you push the slide catch to the outside of the frame. It's a bit annoying, but it hasn't affect performance at all. It's still running 100%.

ChrisToad
09-09-2010, 7:11 PM
Mine does the same thing. When reassembling just make sure you push the slide catch to the outside of the frame. It's a bit annoying, but it hasn't affect performance at all. It's still running 100%.

Thanks for pointing that out... I thought maybe I was the only one in this boat.


so i played with my p220 some more, and i can almost replicate your issue. when i press the slide catch down, without the slide on the frame. the entire assembly will sit towards the middle rather than rest along the frame. but on my gun it won't go in far enough to really catch, it will rub the breech block a bit then pop back into the groove.
but really the entire assembly is connected to the frame from one pivot attached to the trigger pin so there is nothing to stop it from moving to far in except for the locking insert.


Appreciate your input, the pics, and the YT video. I'll definitely check that out. Maybe, now that I have that video I posted, I can show it to the Sig tech and see if they still agree this is 'normal'.

One question, you mentioned the 'locking insert'. Is your slide lock assembly coming in contact with the locking insert to where it limits the slide lock lateral movement (my issue)?

GKO
09-09-2010, 8:25 PM
Your slide catch lever seems to have more play than normal from what I could see in the video. The whole piece should be flush to the inside left part of the frame except for the top part that curves inwards.

The grips should have nothing to do with it. While there should be a slight amount of play, it should snap back if you push it towards the center of the gun as it's under pressure from the slide catch lever spring. However, it's possible it's bent if it's been pushed too hard inward.

If you push the lever up, does it snap back down? The only things I can think of that would allow for more play would be a missing or broken slide catch lever spring, the lever itself is bent inward or rotated inward, or there's too much space between the left side of the locking insert and the inside left side of the frame.

It's pretty simple to take out the locking insert, slide catch lever spring and slide catch lever if you really wanted to look into it further. Does the gun run?

ChrisToad
09-09-2010, 11:30 PM
Does the gun run?

When assembled... yes, like a horny thoroughbred.


The only things I can think of that would allow for more play would be [snip] or there's too much space between the left side of the locking insert and the inside left side of the frame.

Bingo.

I disassembled everything necessary to remove the locking insert, trigger pin, and slide catch. Much easier than I had thought it might be, thanks Nan for the YT link.

The spring, slide catch, and locking insert appear to be in good working order. Nothing is bent, or looks out of place. The spring acts on all the pieces parts it is supposed to.

When re-assembling, I should note that before I even re-insert the locking insert, the slide catch fits pretty loosely on the trigger pin. Upon replacing the locking insert, the spring presses down on the slide catch as it should... but the fit isn't tight enough between the inside edge of the receiver and the locking insert. With everything in place, it still has enough room to wiggle left and right. Upon shining a flashlight down in there... we're talking thousands of an inch... but enough to let it wiggle.

The only appropriate / feasible solutions to me would be a new slide catch that is made out of a thicker piece of metal. That or a locking insert with a wider base. Either would yield a tighter fit.

My guess is that they might have gotten a batch of these slide catch parts that are a little loose on the specified thickness.

ChrisToad
09-17-2010, 11:57 AM
Talked with Sig Sauer on Wed... they agreed to send me a new slide catch. I'll update with results.

ChrisToad
09-23-2010, 12:14 AM
Got the new slide catch in from SIG today...

I wish could say installing it solved my problem, it didn't. The new slide catch matched the original one exactly, and the same lateral play was present. SO:

Now that I have an extra catch, I reached for the toolbox. I used 2 pairs of pliers and applied about 1/10" of twist (catch/ejector outward) at the point where the catch just starts to protrude from the Locking Insert. That little amount of twist was enough to hold the slide catch tight between the frame and the locking insert. The twist also helped press the slide catch against the inside of the frame. So NOW, the slide catch doesn't move laterally whatsoever. I'll consider this solved, but with some self help.

Thanks to everyone here for your suggestions, troubleshooting, and input. I REALLY appreciate it. Lets get out to the range!

GKO
09-25-2010, 12:27 PM
Should be fine as long as the ejector part of the slide catch slides okay in the channel to the left of the underside slide area that contains the firing pin.

ChrisToad
09-25-2010, 5:27 PM
Should be fine as long as the ejector part of the slide catch slides okay in the channel to the left of the underside slide area that contains the firing pin.

Put 100 rounds through it today without any hiccups. I field stripped to check that channel / ejector and there doesn't appear to be any trouble.