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View Full Version : Flare Launcher on a handgun legal? AOW?


KYLDD.45
09-07-2010, 7:32 PM
Before I attach my 37mm flare launcher to either my Draco AK47 Pistol, or my AR Pistol; I wanted to know the legalities. I couldn't find anything in the penal code banning it directly. But I do see how the argument for an AOW could be brought up seeing as you'd need 2 hands to operate the weapon.

Your thoughts? (I just want to stay clear from any illegalities and keep my freedom.)

Cokebottle
09-07-2010, 7:53 PM
I wouldn't do it.

Perhaps not an AOW, but the firing mechanism could be considered to be a second handgrip, which would trigger AW status.

ojisan
09-07-2010, 8:12 PM
Welcome to CalGuns!
We see you are an extreme kind of guy right away.
Most people are satisfied with attaching a quality flashlight to their favorite zombie blaster.
You, however, want to really light things up!
Excellent!
:D

I would lean towards it being a Federal AOW, unless you could do something to make sure there was no way to use it with a pistol-style grip / vertical front hand hold.
A 20 / 30 round mag in the well would likely be considered a forward vertical grip if there was a trigger right in front of it.
As far as CA goes, if it puts a smile on your face it is illegal, so go from there.
My suggestion is do not do this.

vta
09-07-2010, 8:19 PM
in CA, i wouldnt even duct tape one of these to a draco. but thats just me :)

http://www.atf.gov/graphics/firearms/weapons/fullsize/flare-launcher.jpg

CSACANNONEER
09-07-2010, 8:24 PM
I wouldn't do it.

Perhaps not an AOW, but the firing mechanism could be considered to be a second handgrip, which would trigger AW status.

A second handgrip (if it can be considered a VFG) would trigger AOW status.

ke6guj
09-07-2010, 8:33 PM
Perhaps not an AOW, but the firing mechanism could be considered to be a second handgrip, which would trigger AW status.but only if it has a detachable magazine, which a CA-legal Draco doesnt' have.


Personally, what I would do is spend the $200 and register it as an AOW so it doesn't matter if the flare launcher makes it an AOW or not.

edit: that same question got asked a week ago, http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=336807&highlight=draco , by someone who has virtaully the same avatar. Dupe account?

CSACANNONEER
09-07-2010, 8:36 PM
Personally, what I would do is spend the $200 and register it as an AOW so it doesn't matter if the flare launcher makes it an AOW or not.

You just like stamp collecting!

ke6guj
09-07-2010, 8:38 PM
who, me?? :D

dachan
09-07-2010, 8:46 PM
I wouldn't do it.

Perhaps not an AOW, but the firing mechanism could be considered to be a second handgrip, which would trigger AW status.

If the OP is talking about a Havoc type flare launcher, which is really just a tube, trigger and trigger guard, I just don't see how the firing mechanism (trigger and trigger guard) could be considered a VFG.

I would lean towards it being a Federal AOW, unless you could do something to make sure there was no way to use it with a pistol-style grip / vertical front hand hold.
A 20 / 30 round mag in the well would likely be considered a forward vertical grip if there was a trigger right in front of it.
As far as CA goes, if it puts a smile on your face it is illegal, so go from there.
My suggestion is do not do this.

And why would putting a flare launcher trigger in front of the magazine on a AR/AK pistol suddenly turn the magazine into a VFG?

ke6guj
09-07-2010, 8:54 PM
realize that it doesn't ahve to be a VFG in order to make it an AOW. The feds say that a concealable firearm (which the draco is) is an AOW unless it is a pistol (which is defined as a firearm designed tobe fired with one hand). ATF says that by installing a VFG, it is no longer a firearm designed to be fired with one hand, that the VFG makes it a firearm designed to be fired with two hands. They could say that installing the flare launcher makes it a firearm designed to be fired with two hands, and no longer a pistol, therefore an AOW.

stitchnicklas
09-07-2010, 8:58 PM
just don't do it,it is a very bad idea all around..

Grumpyoldretiredcop
09-07-2010, 8:58 PM
My opinion stands as written in the thread quoted by ke6guj in post #6.

CSACANNONEER
09-07-2010, 9:00 PM
Uh, most flare lanchers are SMOOTH BORES. So, would it make it a smoothbored handgun? Thus, making it a SBS?

ojisan
09-07-2010, 9:01 PM
And why would putting a flare launcher trigger in front of the magazine on a AR/AK pistol suddenly turn the magazine into a VFG?

You are, of course, free to gamble with the ATF, your money and maybe your freedom all you want.
Yes, I do have a cautious outlook on all these things, perhaps too cautious.
The mag without a trigger in front of it is not a vertical front grip.
The mag with a trigger right in front of it would quite likely be used as a grip...which is a no-no on a pistol without an AOW stamp.
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii64/transgenic_girl/Heroes/Toy%20Chest/M16203.jpg

So you are saying you would not touch the mag at all when you reached to pull the launcher trigger?
(Yes, rifle shown, pistol parts would be in the same place).

IANAL, YMMV, Good luck!

ke6guj
09-07-2010, 9:02 PM
Uh, most flare lanchers are SMOOTH BORES. So, would it make it a smoothbored handgun? Thus, making it a SBS?
smoothbore pistols are considered AOWs.

dachan
09-07-2010, 9:03 PM
realize that it doesn't ahve to be a VFG in order to make it an AOW. The feds say that a concealable firearm (which the draco is) is an AOW unless it is a pistol (which is defined as a firearm designed tobe fired with one hand). ATF says that by installing a VFG, it is no longer a firearm designed to be fired with one hand, that the VFG makes it a firearm designed to be fired with two hands. They could say that installing the flare launcher makes it a firearm designed to be fired with two hands, and no longer a pistol, therefore an AOW.

I see, so you're saying the because the flare laucher requires two hands to operate and a flare launcher is a firearm, it is a AOW? Because the pistol (of the setup) still can be operated with a single hand even after a flare launcher is attached.

You are, of course, free to gamble with the ATF, your money and maybe your freedom all you want.
Yes, I do have a cautious outlook on all these things, perhaps too cautious.
The mag without a trigger in front of it is not a vertical front grip.
The mag with a trigger right in front of it would quite likely be used as a grip...which is a no-no on a pistol without an AOW stamp.
So you are saying you would not touch the mag at all when you reached to pull the launcher trigger?
(Yes, rifle shown, pistol parts would be in the same place).

IANAL, YMMV, Good luck!

I'd be touching the mag to pull the launcher trigger, but the mag isn't operating as a VFG. And I wouldn't be using the mag as a VFG after putting on the flare laucher to operate the pistol any more than I would before installing a launcher.