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View Full Version : San Francisco Resident - New gun owner


atoyf
05-14-2006, 4:51 PM
Hello,

Can someone please lay out a summary of my rights as SF resident and handgun owner. I'm totally new to this business so every detail is important.

Let's say i will order my gun from an armory outside the city (such as CityArms):
Can I bring the gun to the city of SF?
Will i have to register the gun with city hall?
OR when i buy form CityArms they register the gun with my name in SF city hall?

If they will ban guns in SF - does it mean i will "need" to give up me $$$$ gun to the city?

Thanks much for all your answers!

JaeFern
05-14-2006, 5:03 PM
To my knowledge, San Francisco's gun laws aren't any stricter than the rest of california. Once you buy the gun, any paperwork needed should be taken care of during the waiting period. It's been almost 2 years since I've lived in the bay area, but I doubt anythings changed like that. As for banning guns in San Francisco, I highly doubt it. You should be able to bring your handgun anywhere in california w/o any problem. If I'm wrong, someone correct me. It's your right to have a weapon.

linuxgunner
05-14-2006, 5:22 PM
Are you refering to Proposition H, the SF Handgun Ban that was passed last year? AFAIK, it is tied up in the courts and won't be enforced until the courts figure out what to do with it. It is 99.9% likely that it will be tossed, in yet another stinging defeat for gun owners in California. The good news for you is that Prop H will never do anything, so you can own your handgun in the City without problems. The bad news for everyone else in California is that Prop H won't stand up in court. You win, we lose.

Anyway, I'm glad you're now a gun owner. I would encourage you to take some professional training if you haven't already (or even if you have, more never hurts). I would also encourage you to join our fight for concealed carry, if you are interested in such things. We need people in San Francisco to start applying for permits, and we also need someone in San Francisco to run for County Sheriff against Hennessey. The deadline for registration is May 23, so we have 9 days to get someone to register.

If you are interested in CCW issues, please join us at http://CaliforniaCCW.org

Ratters
05-14-2006, 7:43 PM
So whatdya end up getting?

Make sure to get a safe for it. Just get an inexpensive one you can bolt under your bed or in your closet. Worst feeling in the world is having your gun stolen and having to wonder if it's hurt anyone.

atoyf
05-14-2006, 7:52 PM
what's up fellow barfer :)

none yet, still researching, but i most likely will get HK USP .45, seems to be very decent gun.

If you are not too far from SF, let's go shooting sometime in the future!

CalNRA
05-15-2006, 12:28 AM
Are you refering to Proposition H, the SF Handgun Ban that was passed last year? AFAIK, it is tied up in the courts and won't be enforced until the courts figure out what to do with it. It is 99.9% likely that it will be tossed, in yet another stinging defeat for gun owners in California. The good news for you is that Prop H will never do anything, so you can own your handgun in the City without problems. The bad news for everyone else in California is that Prop H won't stand up in court. You win, we lose.

Maybe I'm just slow today, but what do we have to lose if Prop H is tossed? THat there isa precedent? wouldn't having it tossed be good for us so futher attempt at gun ban would have a discouraging predecessor?

Please elaborate.

CSkyhawk72
05-15-2006, 8:21 AM
... just another reason to join that conga line heading over the bridge to greener pastures. :D

rips31
05-15-2006, 1:06 PM
unless you buy your handgun from high bridge, everywhere else is outside of sf. thus, you'll skirt that part of prop h.

you can bring your handgun back to sf and keep it there, at least until they uphold prop h.

best bet would be to rent a locker at the new jackson arms if they uphold prop h.

1911_sfca
05-15-2006, 3:39 PM
Can someone please lay out a summary of my rights as SF resident and handgun owner. I'm totally new to this business so every detail is important.

Proposition H passed in November 2005 with 58% of the vote. It prohibits San Francisco residents from handgun possession within San Francisco, and it prohibits the selling/transfer of all guns and ammunition by anyone within San Francisco limits.

A number of individuals and organizations filed suit against the proposition in San Francisco Superior Court. The judge heard arguments in February, and will issue a ruling on the matter in June. See this thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=29213&highlight=prop+court+judge) for more details.

Let's say i will order my gun from an armory outside the city (such as CityArms):
Can I bring the gun to the city of SF?
Will i have to register the gun with city hall?
OR when i buy form CityArms they register the gun with my name in SF city hall?

If they will ban guns in SF - does it mean i will "need" to give up me $$$$ gun to the city?

There is no gun registry at city hall. If the handgun possession ban is upheld by the court, you will have to remove your handgun from San Francisco city/county limits. Otherwise, you should be fine to keep it at home or in your business, according to CA laws, just like any other CA citizen.

atoyf
05-15-2006, 4:35 PM
OK.

Proposition H sucks ballz (aprdon my french), where do i sign up against Proposition H?

Ratters
05-15-2006, 4:47 PM
what's up fellow barfer :)

none yet, still researching, but i most likely will get HK USP .45, seems to be very decent gun.

If you are not too far from SF, let's go shooting sometime in the future!

No problem. I'll have more time in June. Maybe we'll set up a BARF shoot for late June up at Chabot.

JaeFern
05-15-2006, 7:24 PM
No problem. I'll have more time in June. Maybe we'll set up a BARF shoot for late June up at Chabot.
BARF? What is this BARF that you speak of?:confused:

shopkeep
05-15-2006, 7:32 PM
... just another reason to join that conga line heading over the bridge to greener pastures. :D

Yeah for years I considered just packing it up and leaving this crazy socialist state. But then came of the off-list rebellion of '05 and it restored my pride in being a Californian Gun Owner. I never thought I'd see an AR-15 reciever enter the state lawfully ever again and now over 35,000 have crossed the state line to be DROSed in various shops and kitchens across the state.

atoyf
05-15-2006, 7:53 PM
BARF? What is this BARF that you speak of?:confused:

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/

:D

JaeFern
05-15-2006, 10:43 PM
If you don't even know about Proposition H, and the fact that it long passed, and you can't sign up for or against it any more: What rock have you been living under? Did you just move to S.F. last week?

Regarding gun laws: YOU NEED TO START READING. Suggestion: Most gun stores sell a little booklet (I think the current version is blue) called something like "California gun laws - how to own a gun and stay out of jail in California" (I probably butchered the title, but go to any gun store, ask for it, and they will sell you one, about $10). Gun laws are quite non-trivial, regarding things like storage, transportation, when it can be loaded, what to do when transporting it near a school, and stuff like that. Don't listen to random people on the internet. For all you know, I could be an evil person trying to get you in trouble by telling you lies.

Second, if you don't know about gun laws, and don't know about gun handling and shooting, I strongly suggest taking a 4-hour or 1-day introductory class. I think most ranges in the area have them (although with Jackson Arms being closed right now, you probably have to drive down to Reed's near S.Jose airport, maybe there is a place closer in the east bay). They'll teach you an overview of gun law, they'll teach you a lot of useful things about guns in general, and you get to shoot at the range, and they'll usually help you shoot better. Very highly recommended.

Quick summary of gun law:

When at home, always keep your gun in a gun safe, or locked with a lock. I would prefer in a safe, less likely to get stolen. Inexpensive small gun safes can be had for $50 or so, although you probably want something that can be bolted to the floor or the wall. You will most likely get a lock with your gun (not exactly free).
When transporting the gun, only go from home to places where the gun has to logically go (like a gun store, gunsmith, or range). Don't transport it for fun. Try to minimize the number of detours or stops with a gun (whether those are legal or not is up to some debate).
When transporting the gun, unload it, put it into a case, and lock the case. For best legal protection, don't store any ammo in the locked case. Plastic gun cases can be had for $5, and padlocks are at any hardware store. Your gun will probably come with a case, most cases have a hole to be padlocked. In the car, put the gun into a compartment that's far away from you and can't be reached by the people in the car (trunk, back of a station wagon or hatchback, behind the seat in a pickup truck).
Never ever transport a gun by concealing it, in particular not when it is loaded. Don't even think about transporting it in a coat pocket, or the glove compartment of your car.
Once the gun is unloaded and in a locked case, you can transport it within 1000 feet of a school. But don't try to enter school or university or college grounds with it, most schools explicitly forbid guns (I think transporting a gun, even locked and unloaded, into U of C is a felony).
Ammo can be transported in any old fashion, like in a shopping bag. Just don't transport a loaded magazine. In theory, a loaded magazine is legal unless you are a gang member (I'm not making this up, this is actually CA gun law), but in practice it is likely to get the cop and the DA really pissed off at you, and then they'll find other things to annoy you with.
Never ever threaten anyone with a gun, whether loaded or not. That's called brandishing - bad.
In your own residence and in your place of business, you are allowed to carry a gun, loaded, concealed or openly. In S.F. that's only of theoretical use for most people (who are not gun dealers or shooting range employees), as S.F. doesn't have residences that are large enough to run around outside with a gun on your belt without looking threatening to your neighbors. In a rural area (where residences are counted in acres or square miles) this is a different story; I sometimes carry a small revolver when gardening in rattlesnake-infested territory (has come in handy a few times), but my back yard is 10 acres and the nearest house is 1/2 mile away.
Other than your own residence or place of business, don't even think of carrying a gun. Forget trying to get a CCW (concealed carry permit); they are practically non-existing in S.F. (I think 8 of them are issued for the whole city and county).
If someone is about to kill or hurt (seriously) you or your loved ones, you can shoot with intent to kill. In pretty much all other situations, you should probably not shoot. If a burglar just grabbed your iPod and is running out of your house and not threatening you, and you shoot him, you will spend a lot of time in jail. If you see someone stealing a car in the grocery store parking lot, you are not allowed to shoot them.


Enjoy!
Very nice. But like he said, grab a book with gun laws in it. You're more likely to win a case in court or an argument with a LEO (although highly unlikely) with published info rather than some random comment left by some random guy on some random forum.

linuxgunner
05-15-2006, 11:10 PM
Maybe I'm just slow today, but what do we have to lose if Prop H is tossed? THat there isa precedent? wouldn't having it tossed be good for us so futher attempt at gun ban would have a discouraging predecessor?

Please elaborate.

I for one am strongly on the side of SF for this.

If they win, it means two things:


Cities can pre-empt state gun law
City gun laws can only apply to their own residents


So let's say that a miracle happens and SF wins this lawsuit. Then Mendocino (or any other city) could take that same logic and say, "as of now, the Assault Weapons Ban has no force for our residents, and our residents can carry without a permit, and oh yeah, NFA weapons are now legal here with only Federal regulation." So they could do that, and anyone who is a Mendocino resident could then carry anywhere in CA without a license, could own CA AWs and have them anywhere in the state, etc.

SF has carefully constructed this law to get around state pre-emption by applying it to city residents only, so it does NOT apply to people who are visiting, passing through, or are otherwise non-residents. That's how they hope to have the law stand up in court. But that's exactly the logic we would want to allow a city like Mendocino to "opt out" of the AWB, etc, and let me own my AW anywhere in the state. And remember, "residence" within a state is not well defined, and you don't have to spend any particular amount of time in any given place to be a "resident".

That would be brilliant, and that's why every gun owner should be hoping for SF to win.

But it will never happen because, we know that state law pre-empts all local gun regs in California.

Oh well.

atoyf
05-16-2006, 11:20 AM
Many thanks !

Very nice information. I'm a little sad though, according to some people the law suite is bull and i still will be able to own a gun and live in the city, some say after court is over, i will have to give up my gun or rent a box somewhere at the dealer...

1911_sfca
05-16-2006, 11:40 AM
So let's say that a miracle happens and SF wins this lawsuit. Then Mendocino (or any other city) could take that same logic and say, "as of now, the Assault Weapons Ban has no force for our residents, and our residents can carry without a permit, and oh yeah, NFA weapons are now legal here with only Federal regulation." So they could do that, and anyone who is a Mendocino resident could then carry anywhere in CA without a license, could own CA AWs and have them anywhere in the state, etc.


I hope you're kidding, because your "logic" shows no understanding of the law. If SF wins, it will mean that other municipalities can ban their residents from possession/sale/transfer of certain kinds or classes of guns. Period. It does not mean they can ignore state restrictions such as the AWB or federal law.

Get a grip.