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View Full Version : AK-47 vs. AK-74


santacruzstefan
09-05-2010, 9:43 PM
So, before I make my choice, I'd like to get some outside input. This will be my first AK, and I understand there are merits to each round, including penetration, range, and cost/ availability. What is your opinion, and which would you choose, if you could only have one right now (I'll probably end up owning both in the future, regardless). Primary use will be at the range, and maybe a limited capacity as a SHTF-type weapon (limited because I don't think its gonna happen real soon, but thats a whole other thread).

ADAM
09-05-2010, 9:45 PM
just for your info spetznaz is going back to 47 for more knok down power its the 45 vs 9m i take the 45

Notblake
09-05-2010, 10:00 PM
just for your info spetznaz is going back to 47 for more knok down power

Source?

ADAM
09-05-2010, 10:07 PM
family member is a spetznaz

SickofSoCal
09-05-2010, 10:12 PM
About time someone started a poll like this. I like both.......a lot.

But I feel that the 74 is the one I would grab.........don't have have some crazy mags for it? I mean less weight, more ammo, etc. (going to Google Image search.....)

Round is about 3,000 fps........about the same as .223, I mean the 47 is from 1947......the AR is from 1957........I think the 74 was the Russians somewhat belated answer to the AR. (74 is from 1974)

steamboat
09-05-2010, 10:13 PM
7.62... turns cover into concealment... no replacement for displacement... pick your pun but heres my take: Once I got used to the the .30cal ak recoil, 5.45 just didnt do it for me. Not that the 762 is a recoil beast mind you, but if low recoil impulse is the goal, I prefer an AR.

That is all.

TNP'R
09-05-2010, 10:14 PM
About time someone started a poll like this. I like both.......a lot.

But I feel that the 74 is the one I would grab.........don't have have some crazy mags for it? I mean less weight, more ammo, etc. (going to Google Image search.....)

Round is about 3,000 fps........about the same as .223, I mean the 47 is from 1947......the AR is from 1957........I think the 74 was the Russians somewhat belated answer to the AR. (74 is from 1974)

lol.. Ok why look at the dates they were first introduced? the colt 1911 came out way before 47 and people still love it and its one of the best hand guns around.If something is still around from 47 and in wide spread use it means its good or at-least decent.

SickofSoCal
09-05-2010, 10:22 PM
lol.. Ok why look at the dates they were first introduced? the colt 1911 came out way before 47 and people still love it and its one of the best hand guns around.If something is still around from 47 and in wide spread use it means its good or at-least decent.

Well, because the round for the AK-47 was designed in 1942 (debuted the next year), the .223 round was designed in 1964.........22 years is quite a discrepancy in time (especially for military tech). Both the AK and AR were built around the round (he he I'm a poet!) more or less.

The reason I bring this up, is because the AK vs. AR is talked about endlessly, as we all know. But in a way, it's comparing apples to oranges. Obviously, the Russians wanted their own 3,000 fps round and rifle.........hence the AK-74 in 1974.........which was post-Vietnam War (at least the majority of the action) I might add.

TNP'R
09-05-2010, 10:24 PM
Well, because the round for the AK-47 was designed in 1942 (debuted the next year), the .223 round was designed in 1964.........22 years is quite a discrepancy in time (especially for military tech). Both the AK and AR were built around the round (he he I'm a poet!) more or less.

The reason I bring this up, is because the AK vs. AR is talked about endlessly, as we all know. But in a way, it's comparing apples to oranges. Obviously, the Russians wanted their own 3,000 fps round and rifle.........hence the AK-74 in 1974.........which was post-Vietnam War (at least the majority of the action) I might add.

That depends if you like the .223 round as well.Isn't the .223 round more expensive compared to the 7.62x39 I believe so.

MrPlink
09-05-2010, 10:25 PM
7.62... turns cover into concealment... no replacement for displacement... pick your pun but heres my take: Once I got used to the the .30cal ak recoil, 5.45 just didnt do it for me. Not that the 762 is a recoil beast mind you, but if low recoil impulse is the goal, I prefer an AR.

That is all.

through and through, this!

Although dont get me wrong, 545 aint called the poison bullet for no reason!
Still an awsome round.

SickofSoCal
09-05-2010, 10:27 PM
Ahhhhhh, here it is:

The 45-round plastic magazine of the RPK-74 light machine gun is also interchangeable with that of the AK-74.

Now isn't that sweet!?!? An extra 15 rounds if you please.


Comparison of the AK-74 (top) and RPK-74 (bottom):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/0d/AK-74_RPK-74_DA-ST-89-06612reversed.jpg/800px-AK-74_RPK-74_DA-ST-89-06612reversed.jpg



Here's a good video:

-rpa_BSoypw

Zonie
09-05-2010, 10:27 PM
Assuming no body armor, the 7.62 round has better stopping power. However, the the 5.45 round is much better at penetrating body armor and shoots flatter and further.

If you anticipate armored targets, then get the '74. If not, then get the '47.

SxB
09-05-2010, 10:29 PM
I have a 74. I love it. Easy to shoot quickly and accurately. Parts everywhere.
I will say none of the local dealers stock 5.45 but there is always tons of 7.62.
However you can find the Russian surplus tins online (1080 rounds per) for about 150 or two tins (1case) for about 300.
That's cheap! 2160 rounds for 300.

SickofSoCal
09-05-2010, 10:30 PM
That depends if you like the .223 round as well.Isn't the .223 round more expensive compared to the 7.62x39 I believe so.

Yes, even though it has less powder! :D

Guess the Russkies version of it (the .223) isn't so hot with most folk. Like I said up there ^ a ways, I like both AK's.

Notblake
09-05-2010, 10:46 PM
Ahhhhhh, here it is:



Now isn't that sweet!?!? An extra 15 rounds if you please.



The only way you are going to get another 15 rounds is to load 2 more mags .... we live in California remember? Its a moot point thou as the 47 has 40 rd mags.

They are both good rifles. Choosing one is VERY difficult and it really depends on a lot of personal factors.

ren
09-05-2010, 10:47 PM
well depending on your ranges and if they allow steel cased/core ammo that would narrow it down to the 47.

ZX-10R
09-05-2010, 11:04 PM
AK47...However, I am going to pick up a AK74 soon as well. However, if I have to only pick one the 47 has my vote. I want the larger round period. However you will be a real winner if you have both and can offer insight. My WASR will hang steel sights with an AR. So at that point I will take the larger round...Weight? You guys puS**ies or something? Try lugging a PSL which weights over 12 pounds a couple of miles with a couple hundred of rounds...Forget weight you are a grown man and that is the least of the concern unless you start lugging hundreds of rounds. The most rounds I lug in my ammo bag at any time is 400 rounds of 7.62x39, 7.62x54, and 223 and you won't hear a peep from me.

nemisis1400
09-05-2010, 11:25 PM
I can find 7.62x39, 5.45- not so much. Since ammo availability is scarce in my area and the whole shipping thing is kinda a moot point, I'll get whatever I can.

ZX-10R
09-05-2010, 11:26 PM
5.45 is cheap as heck though...Sometimes I feel like stocking some just because it is so cheap. 7.62x39 is cheap as well though.

slomofo
09-06-2010, 12:30 AM
Tough call, I think the best way to settle this dilemma is to get both.

The x39 caliber is probably my favorite caliber of all time, but the 5.45 is cheaper and loads more fun to shoot.

SickofSoCal
09-06-2010, 12:42 AM
The only way you are going to get another 15 rounds is to load 2 more mags .... we live in California remember? Its a moot point thou as the 47 has 40 rd mags.

I wasn't looking at it from a California point of view, and I still think it's sweet either way.

Dhena81
09-06-2010, 12:54 AM
It is a tough call is this going to be your first rifle? If it is I would definitely go with the 47 just because I believe its a more versatile round you could hunt with it and such.

santacruzstefan
09-06-2010, 1:01 AM
Well, so far the 47 seems to be winning overwhelmingly. Sometimes with the polls, though, I wonder if people just vote with the pack, you know what I mean? My ranges allow steel core, so that isn't a concern. I'll tell you where my thinking was before I posted the poll/ question. I had heard that, while smaller, the 5.45 was flatter and more accurate, as someone stated in this thread. Based solely on this, I was gonna pick up the 74 to begin with. However, it doesn't pack the punch of the x39 within, say, 200 yards. Since I already have an AR in 5.56, does this negate the extra distance possible with the 5.45, since I already have a rifle similar in ability? Would it be better to get something with a little more "oomph" for close range? Or is that a moot point? Seeing pics of the wound channels for various military calibers was a little disconcerting as well, being as the over-penetration with both rounds was pronounced, but more so with the x39. But maybe thats a good thing, as the cover--->concealment comment pointed out. Also concerned about availability of non-corrosive ammo, though I've seen it available for each at various places online. And I did read somewhere that the 74 and 5.45 might eventually be phased out, but you know how reliable random/ unsubstantiated internet info like that can be...

Quiet
09-06-2010, 1:07 AM
Another thing to keep in mind is all the inexpensive surplus 5.45x39mm ammo is corrosive.
So, if your AK74 style rifle does not have a chrome lined barrel, you need to be deligent about cleaning it after you shoot it.

Also, all the inexpensive surplus 5.45x39mm FMJ ammo has a steel core. Most outdoor ranges in CA prohibits the use of steel core ammo. So, you may end up having to travel farther to go shoot it at a range.

Current production, non-corrosive & non-steel core, 5.45x39mm ammo cost about the same as 7.62x39mm ammo.

For SHTF...
7.62x39mm easier to find than 5.45x39mm ammo.

Quiet
09-06-2010, 1:32 AM
Last I heard...
The Russian .mil & .gov is still using the 7.62x39mm AKM, 5.45x39mm AK-74M and 5.45x39mm AKS-74U. They also are using the 7.62x39mm AK-103 (slowly replacing the AKMs still in use), the 5.45x39mm AN-94 (slowly replacing the AK-74M) and the 5.45x39mm AK-105 (slowly replacing the AKS-74U).

SickofSoCal
09-06-2010, 1:42 AM
Last I heard...
The Russian .mil & .gov is still using the 7.62x39mm AKM, 5.45x39mm AK-74M and 5.45x39mm AKS-74U. They also are using the 7.62x39mm AK-103 (slowly replacing the AKMs still in use), the 5.45x39mm AN-94 (slowly replacing the AK-74M) and the 5.45x39mm AK-105 (slowly replacing the AKS-74U).

Interesting. But they are all still using the same ammo, right?

5.45x39mm was designed in 1972.

1988
09-06-2010, 1:43 AM
...And I did read somewhere that the 74 and 5.45 might eventually be phased out, but you know how reliable random/ unsubstantiated internet info like that can be...

They might phase out the 5.45 when Russia joins NATO. ;)

With the current Chinese expansion and aggression, Russia becoming a NATO member might not be fictional at all.

santacruzstefan
09-06-2010, 1:54 AM
They might phase out the 5.45 when Russia joins NATO. ;)

With the current Chinese expansion and aggression, Russia becoming a NATO member might not be fictional at all.

But considering this, even if they did join NATO and switch to 5.56 or something, what you're saying is x39 would be better, because so many other countries have adopted the AK-47/x39 but haven't adopted the 5.45? The Chinese have developed their own caliber, though, correct? 5.8 or something like that?

santacruzstefan
09-06-2010, 1:56 AM
Then again, there are so many AK-74s (though not as many as there are 47's, of course) in the world, the 5.45 will probably remain in common production for quite a while, even if Russia did abandon it for something else.

Quiet
09-06-2010, 3:10 AM
Interesting. But they are all still using the same ammo, right?

5.45x39mm was designed in 1972.
Yes, same ammo.

Only ammo that's changed is the 9x18mm.
Russian .mil switched to a 9x18mm "high impulse" round that's suppose to be a +P AP round (90gr steel core projectile going 1426 FPS).

But considering this, even if they did join NATO and switch to 5.56 or something, what you're saying is x39 would be better, because so many other countries have adopted the AK-47/x39 but haven't adopted the 5.45? The Chinese have developed their own caliber, though, correct? 5.8 or something like that?

Unlike the PRC, Russia does not have the money to switch it's entire .mil to another caliber.

So, even if Russia got accepted into NATO and adopted the 5.56x45mm & 9x19mm. It would take them decades to stop using what they already have in their inventory.

In regards to NATO ammo compatibility...
Izhmash makes the 5.56x45mm AK-101 and 5.56x45mm AK102.
Izhmash makes the 9x19mm Bizon and 9x19mm Vityaz-SN.
Baikal/Izhevsky makes the 9x19mm MP-443 and 9x19mm MP-446.
(The MP443 has been adopted by the Russian .mil to replace the 9x18mm Makarov PM and Russian FSB has adopted the MP446).

So, they already have firearms in production that they can adopt to be NATO ammo compatible.


The PRC makes AK type weapons for export only.
The PRC .mil uses the 5.8x42mm QBZ-95. Some 7.62x39mm Type 81 are still in inventory with reserve units, but they are being replaced by the 5.8x42mm QBZ-95.
For handguns, the PRC .mil uses the 9x19mm QSZ-92 with the 7.62x25mm Type 54 in use with reserve units.

Thank everyone who shops at Wal-Mart for allowing the PRC to modernize their military. ;)

SickofSoCal
09-06-2010, 3:33 AM
Thank everyone who shops at Wal-Mart for allowing the PRC to modernize their military. ;)

Hey I can't help it that the tyrants here have made ammo so expensive! :D

sd_shooter
09-06-2010, 6:29 AM
Get the AK47 first and then the AK74. Both are great! :D

Noonanda
09-06-2010, 6:46 AM
having been shot at by many AK-47s, and since I own both, I actually choose the AK-74. If I had to chose I would rather get shot with a 7.62x39 than a 5.45x59, that 5.45 is moving a hell of a lot faster and is unstable as all hell once it hits something, it would be like having a mini chainsaw buzz through you LOL.
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs443.snc3/25423_1395942546014_1455744538_1030172_7903008_n.j pg

bob7122
09-06-2010, 7:26 AM
get both and give me the one you don't want end of discussion :cool2: ...

josh_b
09-06-2010, 7:44 AM
The main reason to me for the flatter shooting round would be range however since ak's are already not the most accurate I would prefer the knock down of the 7.62.

xrMike
09-06-2010, 8:33 AM
5.45 ammo is corrosive, which makes it unacceptable to me since I never clean my guns right away.

Capt. Speirs
09-06-2010, 9:07 AM
I voted for the 47, I actually prefer the AR in 5.56 with eight 30 round mags as primary and a .50 Beowulf upper in my backpack with three 10 round mags. Unfortunately the Beowulf ammo is heavy, ~1.5 pounds for 15 rounds of 500gr I believe.

themailman
09-06-2010, 9:12 AM
family member is a spetznaz

So this passes for a source these days? Wow.

Anyways, I went with a 47 simply because 7.62x39 is pretty commonly available. I would like to get a 74 one of these days though.

steamboat
09-06-2010, 11:56 AM
Well, so far the 47 seems to be winning overwhelmingly. Sometimes with the polls, though, I wonder if people just vote with the pack, you know what I mean? My ranges allow steel core, so that isn't a concern. I'll tell you where my thinking was before I posted the poll/ question. I had heard that, while smaller, the 5.45 was flatter and more accurate, as someone stated in this thread. Based solely on this, I was gonna pick up the 74 to begin with. However, it doesn't pack the punch of the x39 within, say, 200 yards. Since I already have an AR in 5.56, does this negate the extra distance possible with the 5.45, since I already have a rifle similar in ability? Would it be better to get something with a little more "oomph" for close range? Or is that a moot point? Seeing pics of the wound channels for various military calibers was a little disconcerting as well, being as the over-penetration with both rounds was pronounced, but more so with the x39. But maybe thats a good thing, as the cover--->concealment comment pointed out. Also concerned about availability of non-corrosive ammo, though I've seen it available for each at various places online. And I did read somewhere that the 74 and 5.45 might eventually be phased out, but you know how reliable random/ unsubstantiated internet info like that can be...

If its over-penetration you are worried about, than you definately want the 762. You see 762 comes in a variety of loadings, the stand-out being straight up russian manufacture soft point. Hits like a ton of bricks but not a hit to the wallet like some of those American x39s. It also has none of the feed problems associated with hollow points in the ak platform, which are only marginally more effective than fmj anyway.

For those reasons I maintain approx 1/3 of my 762x39 stash with silver bear sp. Though it is available in all of barnauls 'bear' formats, and two different loads from wolf iirc.

So: I believe 762 fits most needs best. For your TEOTW situation, sp offers superior performance against all soft targets, such as but not limited to... Hostile civilians, hunting and swine flu zombie hoardes. FMJ on the other hand will serve you well when north korean paratroopers land in your backyard or iranian marines storm the beaches of santa cruz...

Forget about HP.

ZombieHunter90
09-06-2010, 12:11 PM
I have a 74 and like it very much. Ammo is just so inexpensive!

bayboydray408
09-06-2010, 12:22 PM
2 different rifles but both great, but I would go with the 47

1988
09-06-2010, 12:40 PM
But considering this, even if they did join NATO and switch to 5.56 or something, what you're saying is x39 would be better, because so many other countries have adopted the AK-47/x39 but haven't adopted the 5.45? The Chinese have developed their own caliber, though, correct? 5.8 or something like that?

5.45 vs 7.62x39 is depending on the purpose of the rifle.

5.45 is a good military round, but if I want a rifle for both SHTF and hunting, I'd take the 7.62x39.

Then again, there are so many AK-74s (though not as many as there are 47's, of course) in the world, the 5.45 will probably remain in common production for quite a while, even if Russia did abandon it for something else.

Rifles/Guns and cartridges to work as a system to deliver the bullets. The rifle is only useful when the ammo is available. If they stop 5.45 cartridge production then you might have to resort to commercial ammo. At this point, I'd have to say that 7.62x39 is more common in commercial production.