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View Full Version : Glock Guys: Weird question...


OneSevenDeuce
09-04-2010, 3:28 PM
We have all seen plenty of times the sometimes huge disparity between people who love Glocks and people who hate them. Grip angle is always a huge issue in this debate. I suppose you could just say that "some people like them and some don't". But I wonder if it is quantifiable to any degree WHY some people love Glocks and some people just can't stand them. I mean, we all have five fingers (for the most part), we all have wrists, are the relatively small differences between is really enough to make some people just shoot horribly with them when they are ok with any other pistol?

Here is the question, Glock Guys...

What kind of hands would you say you have? Long, skinny fingers, small wrists? Short, fat fingers, large wrists? Gigantic gorilla hands that would make a 2x4 look small? Little girl hands that would make even MY ____ look big?

Maybe I grasping (pun) at straws here, but I just wonder if there is anything to this.

OneSevenDeuce
09-04-2010, 3:33 PM
For me, it is the feel of the trigger pull. Just can't get used to it.

But I shoot my G19 as well as any other auto I have.

I get that, but there are worse triggers out there and none of the guns that they are one garner as much controversy as the Glock.

Josh3239
09-04-2010, 3:45 PM
My hands and wrists are very small, the compact Glocks fit my hands perfectly.

TomV, it is funny you bring up the trigger. It is not very good, but I've spent so much time with my Glock that anything longer or heavier is ridiculous and anything to smooth or light just doesn't feel right. It feels too sensative. As terrible as the Glock trigger is, I know exactly how much squeezing is needed and when it breaks. I suppose it is all about trigger time and muscle memory.

OneSevenDeuce
09-04-2010, 3:50 PM
it is funny you bring up the trigger. It is not very good, but I've spent so much time with my Glock that anything longer or heavier is ridiculous and anything to smooth or light just doesn't feel right. It feels too sensative. As terrible as the Glock trigger is, I know exactly how much squeezing is needed and when it breaks. I suppose it is all about trigger time and muscle memory.

That is precisely why I didn't include the trigger in my question. Most triggers a person can get used to with enough training.

Turo
09-04-2010, 3:53 PM
I have medium-small hands with proportional medium-small sized fingers and the sub compact glocks fit me like a glove. The compact/full-sized Glock grips have too large a circumference for me to grip comfortably. I'm thinking it's mainly because my fingers are shorter than most.

nmerced
09-04-2010, 3:53 PM
I have smallish hands. The G20 I can hold properly but the G21 and 21SF is just too bulky for me.

ir0nclash86
09-04-2010, 3:58 PM
I have no problem with the grip angle. I don't even pay attention to it or notice what people are talking about with the angle. I just line the sights up and do my thing. The trigger is fine, no problems. I did notice though my groups are 1 1/2 inches to the left of the bullseye with my glock 17. However with a p226 its I shoot dead center everytime. I'm a little guy and have small wrists and my hands are average size I guess. I wear oakley size M tactical hard knuckle gloves and the width is a little loose on my fingers. I hope that gives you a general idea of my hands. Glock grips seems more boxy too but its no big deal, I'm used to it. If they rounded the grip out on the sides it would be even better. I used to be a glock hater and didn't want to get into the all the hype but I'm glad I caved. I'm a happy glock owner

Booshanky
09-04-2010, 4:00 PM
We have all seen plenty of times the sometimes huge disparity between people who love Glocks and people who hate them. Grip angle is always a huge issue in this debate. I suppose you could just say that "some people like them and some don't". But I wonder if it is quantifiable to any degree WHY some people love Glocks and some people just can't stand them. I mean, we all have five fingers (for the most part), we all have wrists, are the relatively small differences between is really enough to make some people just shoot horribly with them when they are ok with any other pistol?

Here is the question, Glock Guys...

What kind of hands would you say you have? Long, skinny fingers, small wrists? Short, fat fingers, large wrists? Gigantic gorilla hands that would make a 2x4 look small? Little girl hands that would make even MY ____ look big?

Maybe I grasping (pun) at straws here, but I just wonder if there is anything to this.

It's just what you're used to. I'm right handed but I play hockey left handed because the first stick I was given was a lefty stick. If I shot glocks before I shot any other gun I'm sure I wouldn't have a problem with the grip angle. But I'd shot most other guns before I ever shot glocks, so the glock grip angle don't work for me.

It's really no more difficult to understand than that.

PistolS&W
09-04-2010, 4:01 PM
For me, it is the feel of the trigger pull. Just can't get used to it.

But I shoot my G19 as well as any other auto I have.

the trigger pull is why i traded into a glock.

OneSevenDeuce
09-04-2010, 4:02 PM
It's really no more difficult to understand than that.

I disagree. I started out shooting 1911s. I shot them for years before I touched anything else. However, the first time I touched a Glock it just felt right. And I shot very well with them right out of the gate.

nazgulnarsil
09-04-2010, 4:06 PM
I actually don't think it is the grip angle at all. I think it is the huge curve of the lower backstrap that pushes your hand into a different shape than virtually all other grips.

http://imgur.com/VjDHn.png

OneSevenDeuce
09-04-2010, 4:08 PM
I actually don't think it is the grip angle at all. I think it is the huge curve of the lower backstrap that pushes your hand into a different shape than virtually all other grips.

http://imgur.com/VjDHn.png

You could be right. Maybe I'm asking the wrong questions. Maybe that's why I have always preferred arched mainspring housings on 1911s too.

nazgulnarsil
09-04-2010, 4:10 PM
referring to it as grip angle is confusing because it would be correct if you are referring to the grip of your hand rather than the grip of the gun.

grab a 1911 and note where your thumb goes. now grab a glock and see where your thumb goes.

with the glock your thumb is almost in line with your wrist, with the 1911 it is up high.

this is conducive to absorbing recoil better and makes for quick follow up shots. the design is logical and I can see the advantage. I just personally hate it.

Bizcuits
09-04-2010, 4:15 PM
When I was first introduced to Glocks it was with a G21 with the wrap around grip. I hated it! My hands are pretty big, I'm 5-11.... But the G21 with the grip was just too big, I felt like I could barely grasp the gun. Let alone the fact it was a .45ACP and I didn't like it. It turned me off from glocks and I ended up with an XD45. I decided later to go to 9 and checked out the G19, I realized then the G19 wasn't as wide as the G21. I fell in love. Over the years the Glocks reliability has kept me in love and I'd probably sale my SIG to fund another Glock, before I'd sale my Glock to fund another SIG.

thefinger
09-04-2010, 4:20 PM
I love the Glock grip angle and they point more naturally for me than any other pistols I've shot. I also get back on target significantly more quickly than with any other.

I am 6'4" with pretty big hands. I have long, slender fingers. Usually wear an XL glove.

I don't think that the size of your hand really can predict if you will like a Glock or not. From my experience its more a question of whether you are already used to shooting another type of gun or not.

My friends who are already used to shooting 1911's or Sig's usually dislike my Glocks at first--as in, HATE my Glocks. However, once they have some time behind the trigger (time enough to get somewhat used to it) they usually become converts and end up buying a Glock for themselves.

ChrisO
09-04-2010, 4:28 PM
Small guy here with average medium size hands no fat fingers here and like ironclash 86 a medium size oakley glove fits and is a little wide so Imagine our hands are similar size. I owned a xd9 and hated the way it fit and everything before the fact that it was a jam o matic. Anyways I have a glock 17 and and glock 26 I shoot them both well. I love my glocks and they just work for me. I don't think the glock 17 grip is to big, Some people say the m9 is huge but i seem to think it fits my hand like a damn glove and like I said my hands are not big.

I love the trigger on my glocks consistent and same break every single time not to much not to little. I'm used to it so it just works for me. I think glocks became VERY popular very fast and there are a lot of purist out there that are used to something else so they try a glock and it doesn't work so they just bash it. You would be stupid to bash a glock they are proven pistols the ergos may not work for someone who is used to a 1911 or sig but there is no arguing that they are a fine combat ready pistol out of the box for a damn good price.

Few things I like about my glock.
It just plain runs even if its filthy.
I think they look good even though some don't.
DA pull every single time no DA/SA
Fits my hand well,low bore axis very controllable.
Ready to rock straight out of the box makes a GREAT defense weapon.
I don't mind much if it gets confiscated as they are not nearly as expensive as some handguns that work as reliably as a glock.

There are definitely some promising things coming out these days like the S&W M&P's but for the price I don't think a glock can be beat if it works for you.

OneSevenDeuce
09-04-2010, 4:31 PM
As time goes on I'm starting to think the Glock v. 1911 thing is purely myth. The grip angle thing too.

ChrisO
09-04-2010, 4:38 PM
As time goes on I'm starting to think the Glock v. 1911 thing is purely myth. The grip angle thing too.


Same here bud. A good 1911 is a thing of beauty. I had got used to glocks before a 1911 and well I find that I just like the way a 9mm glock feels in my hand. I honestly think that for some people it's just what you are used to or what you take time to get used to. It's funny because the same theory applies to many things. I'm a lefty and I've been huge into fishing my whole life especially bass fishing. I have gotten several buddies into bass fishing and of course when they ask me to go with em to get a rod and reel they want a set up just like my flipping stick. They soon realize that wait what? They have been fishing lefty the whole time when they used my poles and that it feels more natural for them because why? Thats what they learned on so all of my right handed friends are fishing lefty haha.

Grayblue
09-04-2010, 4:42 PM
I get that, but there are worse triggers out there and none of the guns that they are one garner as much controversy as the Glock.

That's because Glock has dominance over law enforcement market.

Which means there are many many people who hates the Glock trigger that are forced to use it.

Yes, there are other pistols with worse trigger, but you won't hear much about people complaining about VP70's trigger because not so many people are forced to use it.

And, most other junk pistols are not even worth debating about.

Fozz
09-04-2010, 4:42 PM
my favorite thing about my glock 19 is how firm the trigger reset is. I find that sig's have too long of a trigger pull and a softer reset. I perfer how the glock really clicks on reset and is spot on for my follow up shots. as for hand size I have large hands and prefer the bow on the back of the grip it also keeps my thumbs/wrists in a comfortable position, than requires no adjustment even if I have to clear a malfunction. wich brings me to my final point that; It is very rare that a glock malfunctions the only time i have ever had it happen is when i had bad ammo that had burrs on the casings.

OneSevenDeuce
09-04-2010, 4:43 PM
That's because Glock has dominance over law enforcement market.

Which means there are many many people who hates the Glock trigger that are forced to use it.

Yes, there are other pistols with worse trigger, but you won't hear much about people complaining about VP70's trigger because not so many people are forced to use it.

And, most other junk pistols are not even worth debating about.

Most of us here are not LEOs, and most LEOs are not "gun guys" who would probably give a damn about the trigger. That's my impression.

OneSevenDeuce
09-04-2010, 4:45 PM
It is very rare that a glock malfunctions

That much is undeniable. I have never had a Glock malfunction on me. Ever. And I have shot some pretty old beat up Glocks.

ChrisO
09-04-2010, 4:46 PM
As time goes on I'm starting to think the Glock v. 1911 thing is purely myth. The grip angle thing too.

I also hate the bashing of glocks or even of 1911's. Bashing a glock is ridiculous it is a proven design as well as the 1911 (obviously if it's built right) They are both reliable weapons. I think it's quite funny actually. I have a buddy that carried a HK USP 40 for years and he would always bash my glocks. He recently got a glock 19 because his uspc was confiscated (long story) Anyways he said this.
"Yeah I only got it because it was cheap, Only thing that sucks is they are not as reliable as HK's so you have to replace the springs like every 500 rounds"
I laughed my a** off and told him I have not done anything to my glock 17 since I got it and it easily has over 3k down the pipe. He is now starting to like glocks because he has taken the time to get used to it and study about them a bit so now I hear stories about how glocks are almost up there with HK's because he doesn't want to admit to me that I was right this whole time and glocks were good ;).

Grayblue
09-04-2010, 4:47 PM
As time goes on I'm starting to think the Glock v. 1911 thing is purely myth. The grip angle thing too.
It's very inappropriate to say something is a myth only because the person stating it did not experienced it.

Each people have different degree of wrist motion range, and each have different position of wrist that feels "nutral" in any given position.

With a glock, I have to exert downward force on the wrist joint to get an aim in average standing position. It's not "nutral."

OneSevenDeuce
09-04-2010, 4:49 PM
It's in the perception to a large degree, I think. If we are taught to believe that a $1000.00 dollar sig is a superior pistol to a Glock or a Beretta, then we will assume that perception as our own opinion. In fact it is not an opinion at all. It is a parroting of things we have heard others say. An opinion is based off of experience.

OneSevenDeuce
09-04-2010, 4:50 PM
It's very inappropriate to say something is a myth only because the person stating it did not experienced it.

I have no idea what this means.

451040
09-04-2010, 4:50 PM
I have smallish hands. The G20 I can hold properly but the G21 and 21SF is just too bulky for me.

Say what? I own a G21 and a G20 and the grip is the same dimensionally.

AIMSMALL
09-04-2010, 4:53 PM
my favorite thing about my glock 19 is how firm the trigger reset is. I find that sig's have too long of a trigger pull and a softer reset. I perfer how the glock really clicks on reset and is spot on for my follow up shots. as for hand size I have large hands and prefer the bow on the back of the grip it also keeps my thumbs/wrists in a comfortable position, than requires no adjustment even if I have to clear a malfunction. wich brings me to my final point that; It is very rare that a glock malfunctions the only time i have ever had it happen is when i had bad ammo that had burrs on the casings.

^^^Fozz knows!
Today I shot my new glock 30 for the first time and I loved it! I was more accurate with it then my sig P220 that I've had for years. I am a new glock owner and I am already thinking I need another one, love it!

ChrisO
09-04-2010, 4:54 PM
That much is undeniable. I have never had a Glock malfunction on me. Ever. And I have shot some pretty old beat up Glocks.

I have had 2 glock 17's glock number 1. with around 6k down the tube the other with something over 3k. I will not say my glock has NEVER malfunctioned but glock number 1 has had 2 failures to fully eject on the same mag. This was around 4k rounds I thought it was weird quit shooting went home and ordered a lone wolf spring kit and replaced em and it has not malfunctioned since. I put 2k through a springfield GI and it had around 8 FTE and a couple FTF's this was all using 230 Gr ball ammo. I'm not saying 1911's are bad at all just saying glock is probably the only other handgun I would keep in my nightstand that I have had experience with besides the m9 in the autoloader category.

ChrisO
09-04-2010, 4:57 PM
Say what? I own a G21 and a G20 and the grip is the same dimensionally.

+1 on this. I could have sworn they are the same as well...

Also this is a good thread OneSevenDuece I have wondered this same thing for awhile just never figured to make a thread on it haha.

Oceanbob
09-04-2010, 4:59 PM
As time goes on I'm starting to think the Glock v. 1911 thing is purely myth. The grip angle thing too.

I have my .45 1911 and Glock 20. Holding them up together they are so close.

The difference is the wrap around. I have big hands and I don't notice any problems.

I was a stout 1911 junky when I bought my first Glock 17 (smooth grip) in 1987. I took it too the range and have enjoyed GLOCKs ever since.

http://i52.tinypic.com/23sat08.jpg

Grayblue
09-04-2010, 5:05 PM
I actually don't think it is the grip angle at all. I think it is the huge curve of the lower backstrap that pushes your hand into a different shape than virtually all other grips.

http://imgur.com/VjDHn.png
It's a bit of both.

The web of the hand is positioned higher than the top edge of thr trigger. And, that forces the wrist to be angled downward, and it will be so even if the grip angle is made similar to 1911.

While this does lower the bore axis, it's not good for trigger pull. That forces the shooter to actually point the finger downward and pull rear and upward. If you look at a SIG or a 1911, the trigger pulling motion is straight backward. That helps.

That's the same reason people buy aftermarket grip for the AR to fill in the "gap" over the web of the trigger hand. Imagine how awkward you would feel if you smash your web of your trigger hand to contact the arch of the AR-15 lower receiver for high grip like you would try on a pistol.

If you look at some sniper rifle for comparison, their grip angle is getting more and more closer to that of a pistol. The change from USMC M40A1 to M40A3 would be a good example. And, I've seen pictures of people installing block on the M40A3 type so that the middle finger won't go higher than the trigger guard. Also look at every model of new sniper rifle candidates like Remington MSR, or AI AW's grip and trigger configuration.

The rifle's grip design are departing from the old high front lean angle of the old style stock integrated grip. Those force the shooter to crank the wrist downward near the edge of the motion range, then put the index finger that is pointing downward in a trigger and trigger guard that is placed in line with the straight front to back bore axis in a awkward twisted motion then pulling the trigger straight back while the finger joint is placed in a manner that narually moves down and front or up and rear.

There is a reason for the departure from that design. It's not ergonomic.

Glock grip and trigger replicates that situation in the high front leaning grip design problem, altough to a greatly lesser degree.

HighLander51
09-04-2010, 5:06 PM
Here is the question, Glock Guys...

What kind of hands would you say you have? Long, skinny fingers, small wrists? Short, fat fingers, large wrists? Gigantic gorilla hands that would make a 2x4 look small? Little girl hands that would make even MY ____ look big?

No matter what hand size you have, the only important thing is the pad of your finger is centered on the trigger. So if you have really long fingers, you have to bend you trigger finger out to get on the right part of the pad. If you have short fingers, you have to twist into it. Other than that, pull the trigger about 50,000 times and it will feel right. I came off of 1911's from 1968 to 1992 before I switched to Glocks. I shot a Springfield Custom Shop 1911 today at a match, and the short reset trigger felt great! But I still carry a Glock.

KimoBBZ
09-04-2010, 5:06 PM
I have smallish hands. The G20 I can hold properly but the G21 and 21SF is just too bulky for me.

I thought the G20 & G21 frames were identical... uppers are interchangable, as are the mags between models without modification. Oh... maybe you're comparing between generations?

On topic... I have medium sized, but chunky fingers, LOVE both my Glocks and my 1911's. Wife on the other hand HATES the Glocks, G21 & G19 tosses brass right into her forehead everytime. :eek:

OneSevenDeuce
09-04-2010, 5:15 PM
Wife on the other hand HATES the Glocks, G21 & G19 tosses brass right into her forehead everytime. :eek:

Hah! That happened to my sister when I took her to shoot my 17. Never seems to happen to me though. Maybe I get too dialed in and don't notice it. BTW, my sister has small hands and definitely cannot handle the Glock pistol grip comfortably.

slobson
09-04-2010, 5:17 PM
Most of us here are not LEOs, and most LEOs are not "gun guys" who would probably give a damn about the trigger. That's my impression.

maybe most of us aren't, and maybe most LEO's don't care, but if they are on calguns discussing the matter then they certainly do.

I haven't fired a glock so I can't speak to anything involved in operating the platform, but my buddy's G20 RTF3 feels amazing in my small fat hands with girly fingers right up to the point where I bring it to bear on an imaginary target and my front sight is far too high. obviously that is a muscle memory and training issue as others have mentioned, I'll have to spend some quality time on the range with one before ultimately passing judgment on whether they are for me or not.

OneSevenDeuce
09-04-2010, 5:17 PM
No matter what hand size you have, the only important thing is the pad of your finger is centered on the trigger. So if you have really long fingers, you have to bend you trigger finger out to get on the right part of the pad. If you have short fingers, you have to twist into it. Other than that, pull the trigger about 50,000 times and it will feel right. I came off of 1911's from 1968 to 1992 before I switched to Glocks. I shot a Springfield Custom Shop 1911 today at a match, and the short reset trigger felt great! But I still carry a Glock.

I'm not going to go so far to say that hand size doesn't matter, but I will say that lots of practice does indeed help.

Grayblue
09-04-2010, 5:18 PM
While I don't like Glock's grip andle, or what it forces the wrist tilt angle to be, that's not my primary complaint.

I don't like Glock becuase of its trigger. The resistance characteristics makes it very prone to fliers.

The risistance sharply increases right before firing. And, the it releases the striker with a roughness like a canvas tearing. That has the highest possibility of disrupting aim at the most critical moment.

It does not feel like a "click" as it does with an M&P or even XD. It feels more like a "Thhhhhhwwwaaak!"

I have a SIG P226R in DAK. Glock's trigger pull is lighter than a DAK, and the pull is significantly more shorter. But, Glock's trigger break is so rough that if I build pressure on that trigger any faster than I do on a DAK, I get fliers with Glock. Meaning I can aim and get a shot on target faster with a DAK SIG which has longer hand even heavier trigger resistance than a Glock, all because of that rough break(probably with the exception of 3.5 lb disconnector model Glocks).

OneSevenDeuce
09-04-2010, 5:19 PM
maybe most of us aren't, and maybe most LEO's don't care, but if they are on calguns discussing the matter then they certainly do

When I say most of "us" I mean Calgunners. That is to say that most Calgunners aren't LEOs. The reason I say that is to dispute that the cause of the Glock controversy is rooted in the perceptions of LEOs.

nmerced
09-04-2010, 5:22 PM
Say what? I own a G21 and a G20 and the grip is the same dimensionally.

True, but I had a harder time gripping the G21 than the G20. :shrug:

OneSevenDeuce
09-04-2010, 5:24 PM
True, but I had a harder time gripping the G21 than the G20. :shrug:

Could have been a lot of things then. Difference in texture between "generations", sweaty hands, didn't eat breakfast before you shot the 21 (seriously). Who knows.

$P-Ritch$
09-04-2010, 5:24 PM
my favorite thing about my glock 19 is how firm the trigger reset is. I find that sig's have too long of a trigger pull and a softer reset. I perfer how the glock really clicks on reset and is spot on for my follow up shots. as for hand size I have large hands and prefer the bow on the back of the grip it also keeps my thumbs/wrists in a comfortable position, than requires no adjustment even if I have to clear a malfunction. wich brings me to my final point that; It is very rare that a glock malfunctions the only time i have ever had it happen is when i had bad ammo that had burrs on the casings.

+1, how the trigger resets is probably one of the most important factors I consider. The glock trigger reset is short, sharp, and very noticable. Also, the trigger resets right to the breaking point just about. So, there is always tension in the trigger. I don't like on M&Ps and XDs how there is that short distance of weightless trigger pull after the reset.

That's just one of the bigger reasons why I prefer my glock. As far as grip angle, I really don't notice it from one gun to another. I just focus on lining up the sights. Oh, and my hands on the small side with maybe a little shorter than normal fingers. When I wear size M oakley gloves they fit snug, but there is maybe 1/4" of empty fingertip space in all the fingers except the thumb. Weird, I know.:o

OneSevenDeuce
09-04-2010, 5:26 PM
there is maybe 1/4" of empty fingertip space in all the fingers except the thumb. Weird, I know.:o

MONKEY PAW!

slobson
09-04-2010, 5:28 PM
When I say most of "us" I mean Calgunners. That is to say that most Calgunners aren't LEOs. The reason I say that is to dispute that the cause of the Glock controversy is rooted in the perceptions of LEOs.

we can agree on that. it seems to me that much of the "controversy" you speak of is due to keyboard commandos and trolls with little to no personal experience offering unqualified opinions as gospel.

OneSevenDeuce
09-04-2010, 5:31 PM
we can agree on that. it seems to me that much of the "controversy" you speak of is due to keyboard commandos and trolls with little to no personal experience offering unqualified opinions as gospel.

I think that's part of the problem. The other part is people who have shot with one type of pistol for years trying a Glock once, and criticizing because it's not exactly the same as what they like. The last part would be people who see things written by both sets of people and parrot their opinions as their own. Not that I think everyone should like Glocks, but damn, I have never seen a pistol so loved/hated.

Greg-Dawg
09-04-2010, 5:32 PM
I have huge hands...that's why the ladies love me.

I can point shoot with my Glocks as well/same as a 1911. No problems for me.

I loves me Glocks.

Grayblue
09-04-2010, 5:36 PM
I have mid sized hand. My fingers are skinny and slightly longer than most others with similar sized hand.

slobson
09-04-2010, 5:44 PM
I think that's part of the problem. The other part is people who have shot with one type of pistol for years trying a Glock once, and criticizing because it's not exactly the same as what they like. The last part would be people who see things written by both sets of people and parrot their opinions as their own. Not that I think everyone should like Glocks, but damn, I have never seen a pistol so loved/hated.

in my experience the best course of action when dealing with those you are describing (crotchety and set in their ways) is leave them to their happy safe routine, and look forward to taking advantage of the opportunity to try new things.

faterikcartman
09-04-2010, 5:54 PM
My wife loves Glocks. I like them fine. My wife has girl hands. She likes the smaller ones. I can palm a basketball. I can handle any of them. But I think the grip does not feel very secure on the bottom rear bulge. Not because of size, but because the Gen 3 surface sucks, IMO, for "grippiness". The Gen 4 is okay and the grip panels are a nice touch. But the RTF 2 is the best. I have no idea why they didn't make that the Gen 4 standard. Maybe there is a good reason that I'm just not privy to.

I like collecting guns. Guns like the XD and a few others strike me as neither collectible, nor the wonderfully functional tool I find the Glock to be. Even when the only Glock in the house was my wife's I always respected the Glock for what it is.

There are a lot of guys around here that are relatively new to shooting and have a bone to pick with Glocks when they strike me as too green to know the difference between their arses and a hole in the ground. There are other folks who have been shooting for years and don't like them because "a handgun has a metal frame". Fair enough. I wouldn't get worked up about it one way or the other, though I think many complaints can be solved with a smaller grip like on a 17, or chalked up to user error and/or lack of experience. IMO.

I think the smartest thing Glock could do going forward is rather than try to get Gen 4 high-cap frames approved for California, they should make a series of slimmer gripped single-stack frames for the 10 round states. Overnight a lot of people would become Glock converts. Reminds me of a buddy with smaller hands. He said he wanted a Sig but didn't like the fat grips. I said try a P220 and he said "the .45, are you crazy? I just said the grips are too big." Of course he didn't realize the 220 is a single-stack design and not as fat as the high-cap frames in the grip. Makes all the difference for a lot of people.

As for folks who say the Glock grip angle is wrong and doesn't point naturally -- they're just nuts. Again, IMO.

YMMV, and good luck.

Grayblue
09-04-2010, 6:04 PM
...
There are a lot of guys around here that are relatively new to shooting and have a bone to pick with Glocks when they strike me as too green to know the difference between their arses and a hole in the ground. There are other folks who have been shooting for years and don't like them because "a handgun has a metal frame". Fair enough. I wouldn't get worked up about it one way or the other, though I think many complaints can be solved with a smaller grip like on a 17, or chalked up to user error and/or lack of experience. IMO.
...
I don't know exacly what you mean by "bone to pick," but if you mean expressing what someone don't like about a Glock:

I've been shooting for years and don't think a handgun must have a metal frame. I have shot a 17 and I have a 22 which have a same size grip.

"...chalked up to user error and/or lack of experience. ..."
Yeah, anyone can do that in regards to people who don't like what you like, not that it makes it true.

...
....

As for folks who say the Glock grip angle is wrong and doesn't point naturally -- they're just nuts. Again, IMO.

YMMV, and good luck.
Like I stated earlier, each person has different wrist motion range and a different point where their wrist feels neutral, the point where the shooter can maintain that wrist position without consciously exerting muscle force, in any given situation.

If someone feels that certain gun in certain grip angle does not point natraully for them in a certain situation, why are they nuts? Explain it.

slobson
09-04-2010, 6:04 PM
As for folks who say the Glock grip angle is wrong and doesn't point naturally -- they're just nuts. Again, IMO.



so I'm nuts because the gun points naturally for you and doesn't for me? good to know

Sajedene
09-04-2010, 6:11 PM
I have small hands. I like the way my glock fits into my hand. I don't like the whole gun bashing thing. I stay away from all that.

Cuda440
09-04-2010, 6:25 PM
I am 6'1", and I normally wear xl gloves. I have a glock 31, and I love it. When I pick it up and point ,it's lined up perfectly, when I grab a 1911 and point, I'm always aiming a bit low. To be honest, Glock wasn't my first choice but I went to a range and rented 1911's, Beretta's, XD's, Sig's, H&K's, Walther's, etc. and the glock was the most natural feel for me, and the most accurate for me.

faterikcartman
09-04-2010, 6:32 PM
Like I stated earlier, each person has different wrist motion range and a different point where their wrist feels neutral, the point where the shooter can maintain that wrist position without consciously exerting muscle force, in any given situation.

If someone feels that certain gun in certain grip angle does not point natraully for them in a certain situation, why are they nuts? Explain it.

If you're saying some people's wrist motion range is wrong or different I won't argue with you. I'm pretty sure, however, I was referring to people who say there is something wrong with the Glock's angle. Yep, just reread it, that's exactly what I said, and I stand by that. If you really need more explanation I'm going to cop out and say there are too many military and police forces in the world who do extensive testing and have concluded there is nothing wrong with the grip angle of a Glock. If you, on the other hand, think they're nuts, by all means you can explain.

faterikcartman
09-04-2010, 6:33 PM
so I'm nuts because the gun points naturally for you and doesn't for me? good to know

Read my post above.

P.S., if you're a lefty you also have the devil in you!:p

Grayblue
09-04-2010, 6:41 PM
If you're saying some people's wrist motion range is wrong or different I won't argue with you. I'm pretty sure, however, I was referring to people who say there is something wrong with the Glock's angle. Yep, just reread it, that's exactly what I said, and I stand by that. If you really need more explanation I'm going to cop out and say there are too many military and police forces in the world who do extensive testing and have concluded there is nothing wrong with the grip angle of a Glock. If you, on the other hand, think they're nuts, by all means you can explain.

Grip angle in this regard is not a matter of "wrong." It's a matter of suitability for each individual who may legitimately feel that it does not point naturally. If one says no one can point it natually, then they would be in the wrong.

Yes, there are number of military and police force that tested Glock and use them. But, it's not because they think the ergonomics would suit everyone. They just thought their members can still shoot it even if it does not feel natural for some, and that was "good enough."

jdewolf
09-04-2010, 6:43 PM
My hands are between a medium and a large. A lot of medium gloves are too tight, and most large gloves are too big.

G17 fits my hand just fine, so I bought it. 20 & 21's are just a hair too large. Meaning to release the mag I have to shift my grip ever so slightly.

Shenaniguns
09-04-2010, 6:46 PM
It feels right to me and I have medium sized hands, ask this 15yo girl if the size of Glock's grip or its angle deters her:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z6iXeaGVHY

CalNRA
09-04-2010, 6:48 PM
if my wife can shoot a Glock 19(well), anyone can.

OneSevenDeuce
09-04-2010, 6:53 PM
Well, my hypothesis was that hand size had something to do with people's perception of whether Glocks were any good, or that the grip angle was right/wrong. Looks like that was wrong. Back to the drawing board.

Grayblue
09-04-2010, 6:54 PM
It feels right to me and I have medium sized hands, ask this 15yo girl if the size of Glock's grip or its angle deters her:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z6iXeaGVHY
If it feels right to you, then good for you.

But, why would anyone ask if the size of Glock's grip or its angle deters the girl? If she says "no," That does not mean it would be "no" for me or anyone else. It proves nothing.

Shenaniguns
09-04-2010, 6:58 PM
If it feels right to you, then good for you.

But, why would anyone ask if the size of Glock's grip or its angle deters the girl? If she says "no," That does not mean it would be "no" for me or anyone else. It proves nothing.


Neither does this thread, get my point?

Grayblue
09-04-2010, 6:59 PM
if my wife can shoot a Glock 19(well), anyone can.
I've shot a Glock22 better than most in the group of 80~60 peple that I've shot around more than 1600 rounds with.

It's not that people who complains about Glock can't shoot it well. It's that more effort might be needed to do so then other pistol if other pistol is more ergonomically compatible with a given individual.

OneSevenDeuce
09-04-2010, 7:00 PM
Neither does this thread, get my point?

This thread isn't trying to prove anything. It was an experiment to see if there was any correlation between hand size and a preference for Glocks. The unscientific answer to that is generally NO from what I can see.

Shenaniguns
09-04-2010, 7:04 PM
This thread isn't trying to prove anything. It was an experiment to see if there was any correlation between hand size and a preference for Glocks. The unscientific answer to that is generally NO from what I can see.


Not ragging on why you made the thread, just that you're correct that there is no correlation between hand size and a preference to Glocks no matter what in this thread is posted. Is there a preference? Yes

OneSevenDeuce
09-04-2010, 7:06 PM
Not ragging on why you made the thread, just that you're correct that there is no correlation between hand size and a preference to Glocks no matter what in this thread is posted. Is there a preference? Yes

I know you weren't. Just trying to explain the purpose if anyone was confused.

Grumpyoldretiredcop
09-04-2010, 7:09 PM
I actually don't think it is the grip angle at all. I think it is the huge curve of the lower backstrap that pushes your hand into a different shape than virtually all other grips.

http://imgur.com/VjDHn.png

I wear size medium gloves, but I've never been able to find a correlation directly between hand size/finger length and 1911/Glock grip fit.

I have, however, observed over the years that folks who like flat mainspring housings on their 1911s very often don't find the Glock grip a proper fit. I have to have arched MSHs on my 1911s and find the Glock grip to be a very good fit.

Grayblue
09-04-2010, 7:14 PM
I wear size medium gloves, but I've never been able to find a correlation directly between hand size/finger length and 1911/Glock grip fit.

I have, however, observed over the years that folks who like flat mainspring housings on their 1911s very often don't find the Glock grip a proper fit. I have to have arched MSHs on my 1911s and find the Glock grip to be a very good fit.
As long as "fit" and "feel" goes, I don't think there ever will be a consensus, since it's personal.

slobson
09-04-2010, 7:25 PM
Read my post above.

P.S., if you're a lefty you also have the devil in you!:p

I guess you were referring to those that claim a fundamental flaw in the design and I misunderstood, my mistake

faterikcartman
09-04-2010, 7:32 PM
As long as "fit" and "feel" goes, I don't think there ever will be a consensus, since it's personal.

Yes, now you've hit it, and in non-confrontational language everyone should be able to get behind. Try before you buy etc. and all that other good stuff.

And to the OP and others, regarding fit, familiarity can have a lot to do with it. But there are times when even though it feels good to you and you are familiar with something that doesn't mean you are shooting as well with it as something that may fit better but may feel strange because you are not familiar with it.

It may also bear keeping in mind the school of thought that says stick with and train with just one gun and system if your life depends on it. With enough training I believe *most* people can become proficient AND comfortable with almost any mainstream gun out there.

Since I don't risk my neck and rely on a gun in my day to day life, I subscribe to the theory of amassing a magnificent collection of modern defensive arms and becoming proficient with all of them. At some point, if you can afford it, you collection may become so large and varied, and you so experienced, that almost any handgun you pick up will feel "right". That's because you're no longer so used to a single platform that something deviating from that standard no longer seems off or wrong.

Hope this helps.

faterikcartman
09-04-2010, 7:34 PM
I guess you were referring to those that claim a fundamental flaw in the design and I misunderstood, my mistake

No worries matey. Few guns generate as much controversy as Glocks do. I get a kick out of it. And yes, I think they're are guys out there who say no, it isn't me, it's Glock's fault.

slobson
09-04-2010, 8:21 PM
No worries matey. Few guns generate as much controversy as Glocks do. I get a kick out of it. And yes, I think they're are guys out there who say no, it isn't me, it's Glock's fault.

glock's fault, the ammo's fault, the time of day, a dog farting in the middle of shooting. . . I know the folks you speak of and the excuses they spout. as they say, only a poor craftsman blames his tools.

nazgulnarsil
09-04-2010, 8:27 PM
I wear size medium gloves, but I've never been able to find a correlation directly between hand size/finger length and 1911/Glock grip fit.

I have, however, observed over the years that folks who like flat mainspring housings on their 1911s very often don't find the Glock grip a proper fit. I have to have arched MSHs on my 1911s and find the Glock grip to be a very good fit.

interesting. definitely holds true for me. love flat backed guns in general.

I think much of the mysteriousness falls away if we separately consider shooting effectiveness and shooting enjoyability.

dieselpower
09-04-2010, 11:35 PM
I am 6 foot tall, I have normal sized hands. I used 1911 style handguns for years, .38, .45 and 10mm, some 92AF style also. I shot a Glock and it just felt better then I have ever held. I had a choice for several years, Colt Delta Elite 10mm or Glock G17. I went with the G17.

I cant stand the short G19. I would need a grip extender if I was using it. My pinky doesnt feel right.