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ZNinerFan
09-03-2010, 1:38 PM
I picked up my brand new Sig P226 Navy yesterday after my 10 day wait period. Decided to take the day off of work and go to the range to break her in.

Prior to going to the range I stripped and cleaned the gun and then lubed her up.

I went to the range and kept getting a FTE about every two mags or so. I used RWS, Federal, Winchester Ranger (to test feeding reliability), and wolf ammo and had FTE issue with all of them.

Around the 160th round or so I fired off and felt powder all over my face and noticed that the slide hadn't recoiled.

I racked by the slide manually and noted a ruptured case stuck in the chamber. I kept the handgun disassembled and came home as I didn't have anything with me at the range to tap out the ruptured shell casing.

So I just got home and tapped out the shell casing, here are some pics of the casing:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/FishinCali/Gun%20Pics/SigP226Extractor001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/FishinCali/Gun%20Pics/SigP226Extractor002.jpg

Here are some pics of the slide with the dislodged extractor:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/FishinCali/Gun%20Pics/SigP226Extractor004.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/FishinCali/Gun%20Pics/SigP226Extractor005.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/FishinCali/Gun%20Pics/SigP226Extractor006.jpg

What I want to know, is how I should go about getting the extractor fixed. Is this something I can do myself or do I need to get in touch with the folks at Sig and send it in for repairs? I am not sure if this is related to the problems I was having with the gun extracting spent rounds or something new in and of itself.

I appreciate any info you guys can throw my way.

Bullwinkle
09-03-2010, 1:57 PM
You can do it yourself, but for something as serious as a ruptured case I'd call Sig Customer Service immediately. In addition to fixing the extractor, make sure you have them examine the barrel, chamber, slide, etc for ancillary damage (e.g. a bulge, out-of-spec chamber that's not supporting the cartridge case properly, etc). Ask the CS rep if they would like you to send in the ruptured case for examination also.

This was all factory new ammo, right? No reloads? I think most manufacturers these days have adopted a "use of anything but factory new ammo voids the warranty" policy.

Edited to add:
Oh, and when you say you "stripped" and cleaned the gun, you mean field stripped, right? Detail stripping your pistol by anyone other than a certified Sig armorer also voids the warranty (if I'm not mistaken).

tbhracing
09-03-2010, 2:09 PM
Tagged. Interesting incident. I would call SIG since it sounds like a warranty issue.

ZNinerFan
09-03-2010, 2:09 PM
Yes it was factory ammo and yes I only field stripped the gun ie. removed slide, barrel and recoil spring for a cleaning and lube.

ZNinerFan
09-03-2010, 2:22 PM
I called Sig and they said I need to get in touch with the ammo manufacturer to have them pay for the repairs as it is an ammo related failure.

Anyone ever dealt with a situation like this before?

ojisan
09-03-2010, 2:31 PM
Do you have any of the other fired cases that went through the gun?
Are they also bulged / cracked / etc?
Always best to have all the pieces of the puzzle before trying to solve it.

ZNinerFan
09-03-2010, 2:34 PM
Nope just the one I had to take out when I got home. Looks like I will be paying for the repair costs out of pocket.

Oh well live and learn I guess.

Code7inOaktown
09-03-2010, 2:44 PM
Wow, that's some customer service. Not.

Has SIG customer service really gotten that bad? The FTE's and multiple ammo sounds more like a problem with the Sig than the ammo.

ZNinerFan
09-03-2010, 3:05 PM
I don't want to bash Sig nor do I want this to turn into a Sig bashing thread. I am sure if the issue is related to a defect in the weapon then they will perform the repairs free of charge.

fsx
09-03-2010, 3:27 PM
Can a improper positioned Extractor cause the case to be ruptured?

cineski
09-03-2010, 3:35 PM
Don't buy a new SIG until Mr. Cohen's arse is skidding out the front door. Just curious exactly what they said to you on the phone besides call Federal? BTW, Federal makes some of the finest ammo available today.

ZNinerFan
09-03-2010, 4:15 PM
The customer service rep took all of my information and emailed me a UPS label to send my gun back for repair. I was told that the cost of the extractor repair would be $135.

I was told that the issue with my firearm was an ammunition problem and that it wasn't covered under the warranty. However, since the ammo was SAAMI spec factory ammo that the manufacturer should cover repair costs.

I asked about what my warranty actually covered and if my ruptured case was related to the FTE issues I had been experiencing but was told no. Factory warranty covers all function and defect issues, not failures related to ammo.

They asked me if I had made any modifications to my handgun to which I truthfully responded with the fact I had replaced the factory grips with a set of Hogue rubber grips.

As of right now, I have dropped off the handgun to my local UPS hub for overnight shipping back to Sig.

I will update this thread once I am told exactly what is wrong with the gun and whatnot.

Dhena81
09-03-2010, 6:35 PM
I can't believe Sig said that, if your gun was messed up NIB they will probably blame it to the cartridge anyways. To me there must have been something wrong with the gun NIB because my Sigs have never had problems with FTE or FTF nor has any of my friends Sigs. I sure hope they take care of you I know I would if I was Sig.

sevensix2x51
09-03-2010, 7:22 PM
ok, i will not be buying a sig, ever again. first trip to the range, that looks almost like OOB (at least to me,) the extractor is flopping all over and sig says "go screw yourself." nice.

good luck, i hope that everything works out all right for you. id loan you one of mine for some range shootin, but youre in santa rosa and, frankly, youre a niners fan. :p

taguin
09-03-2010, 9:46 PM
I can't believe Sig said that, if your gun was messed up NIB they will probably blame it to the cartridge anyways. To me there must have been something wrong with the gun NIB because my Sigs have never had problems with FTE or FTF nor has any of my friends Sigs. I sure hope they take care of you I know I would if I was Sig.

I can believe SIG said that!
Their CS has gone down the proverbial drain!!!

boink
09-03-2010, 10:12 PM
Want to subscribe to this thread... that disturbs me as I bought my sig p226 navy about 8 months ago. Though I put 150 rounds through it with only minor of trouble (whenever I used winchester white box, it would fail to lock back on the last round. every other type of ammo worked flawlessly (Remington UMC and MFS)).

redcliff
09-03-2010, 11:04 PM
I had a somewhat similar incident last month. A buddy of mine wanted to try my edc Kahr PM9 at the range because he was thinking of purchasing one for ccw. He offerred to bring the ammo for it and I asked if it was factory ammo and he said it was.

When we got to the range he had a winchester cardboard case with a big ziplock of ammo inside it. I figured he just had dumped the rounds out of the boxes in order to make them easier to load; I just shrugged and we started shooting.

After about 80 rounds my friend was firing the pistol and he say "ouch, son of a b....." and we look and a case had ruptured just like yours and had blown the extractor clean out of the slide and knocked out what I call a "burst panel" on the right upper grip frame. Other than some stinging in his hand my friend was unhurt.

The range, Nice Shot in Redding, is a Kahr LE dealer and Ryan the manager offerred to send it back to Kahr for repairs which I was willing to pay for since it wasn't the pistol's fault as the rounds turned out to be mixed cases and obviously reloads.

3.5 weeks later (yesterday in fact) my pistol was returned to the dealer after being inspected, repaired and test fired by Kahr. Total cost to me was zip. Kahr warrantied the repair and Nice Shot picked up the shipping since I"m a good customer. Needless to say I'm pretty pleased with Kahr and Nice Shot. I have several other friends that have purchased Kahr's after shooting mine, and I recently purchased a Kahr P380 which I like very much also.

It's sad that Sig won't stand behind its products like Kahr does. I'd suggest having the pistol repaired then billing the manufacturer of the ammo for the repairs and see what happens.

Johnny.B.Good
09-03-2010, 11:07 PM
I am subscribing to this thread as well...

As a relatively new Sig owner myself, I certainly hope the company makes this frustrating situation right for you.

It amazes me that Sig wouldn't voluntarily fix your (brand new) gun free of charge. What is $135 when you are talking about losing a customer (or more than one given that hundreds if not thousands will read this thread) for life? Irritating...to say the least.

ZNinerFan
09-04-2010, 5:41 AM
Thanks for the support folks. I can tell you that I didn't have any issues as far as feeding went. The gun fed standard 115 grain ball ammo, 124 grain FMJ, and 147 jacketed hollowpoints without any problems. This also includes the Wolf.

The problem was with the ejecting of the spent shell casings. Out of the 150ish rounds fired I had at least 8 FTE's without including the ruptured case. I have never owned a Sig handgun before so I thought maybe this was just something that would go away with use. I always checked the cases that had FTE'd to make sure there weren't any bulges, cracks, or abnormalities and never found any.

I was going to try to shoot a total of 200 rounds take it home, field strip, clean, lube and take her back to the range the following day (today) and see if the FTE issues persisted but I had the ruptured case that blew out the ejector.

I honestly don't know if these are related issues, or if the FTE issue was something not related to the ruptured case. I am hoping and assuming that the folks at Sig will be honest enough to let me know the true cause of the problem(s) once their armorers take the gun apart completely and look it over.

flatovercrest
09-04-2010, 6:00 AM
Subscribed to this thread. I have recently sold all my (5) Berettas and switched to SIGs because of a customer service issue I had with Beretta.
I have not had any issues with my SIGs and been absolutely pleased with the quality and performance of their handguns, but stories like the one on this thread are always a warning.
PS: Johnny.B.Good, I like your avatar.

cpt_majestic
09-04-2010, 6:27 AM
I don't own a sig, but I'm very surprised this would be the response from a major manufacturer . Have you called back and tried talking with someone else at Sig???

Who knows, once maybe they get it they will just fix it no charge. Good Luck

ZNinerFan
09-04-2010, 7:51 AM
I don't own a sig, but I'm very surprised this would be the response from a major manufacturer . Have you called back and tried talking with someone else at Sig???

Who knows, once maybe they get it they will just fix it no charge. Good Luck

I am hoping that upon completely stripping the handgun they find some manufacturer defect so glaringly obvious that they fix it for free.

If not I will pay and hope that it ends up being the reliable handgun I wanted it to be.

I didn't even have the gun in my possession for a whole 24 hours...looks like my 10 day wait will end up being a 30 day wait...:(

I was also informed by the Sig Customer Service Rep, that my replacing the factory grips with Hogue rubber grips technically had already voided my warranty but that I should just put the factory grips back on before I sent the gun back to them, which I did.

fsx
09-04-2010, 10:06 AM
I am hoping that upon completely stripping the handgun they find some manufacturer defect so glaringly obvious that they fix it for free.

If not I will pay and hope that it ends up being the reliable handgun I wanted it to be.

I didn't even have the gun in my possession for a whole 24 hours...looks like my 10 day wait will end up being a 30 day wait...:(

I was also informed by the Sig Customer Service Rep, that my replacing the factory grips with Hogue rubber grips technically had already voided my warranty but that I should just put the factory grips back on before I sent the gun back to them, which I did.This is getting more and more ridiculous. Wonder what would glock do to their customers. I am planning buying a sig next month, and this incident is seriously scaring me.:(

flatovercrest
09-04-2010, 10:39 AM
This is getting more and more ridiculous. Wonder what would glock do to their customers. I am planning buying a sig next month, and this incident is seriously scaring me.:(

Well, they some one of the best pistols money can buy.
It is unfortunate what the OP is experiencing and I (like many that have read this thread) appreciate him posting this.
There are thousands of cases of owners that have had flawless performance from their SIGs in decades of use.

I really would like to read that SIG eventually took care of Zininerfan.

cineski
09-04-2010, 5:37 PM
I'd seriously consider getting a German made used SIG. Don't buy a new one.

This is getting more and more ridiculous. Wonder what would glock do to their customers. I am planning buying a sig next month, and this incident is seriously scaring me.:(

Johnny.B.Good
09-04-2010, 8:37 PM
PS: Johnny.B.Good, I like your avatar.

Go Ducks.

I really would like to read that SIG eventually took care of Zininerfan.

Me too.

Johnny.B.Good
09-04-2010, 8:40 PM
I was also informed by the Sig Customer Service Rep, that my replacing the factory grips with Hogue rubber grips technically had already voided my warranty but that I should just put the factory grips back on before I sent the gun back to them, which I did.

What a stupid thing to say, particularly as they have already taken the position that the problem isn't their fault and that you will have to pay the repair bill.

RRichie09
09-04-2010, 10:58 PM
I called Sig and they said I need to get in touch with the ammo manufacturer to have them pay for the repairs as it is an ammo related failure.

Anyone ever dealt with a situation like this before?

It think its amazing that they can tell it was ammo related right over the phone. :rolleyes:

I was gonna get a P226 BTFO next, but I might get my remington 870 first and wait to see if Sig turns their ship in the right direction.

I know the 870 has issues now as well, but atleast they will fix it for you.

sarge1572
09-04-2010, 11:27 PM
After reading this thread I found the following information related to lack of reliability of the new Sig's. Different model but:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=337557

The test results are down a few posts, pay particular attention to "reliability" and the last section, where they list failures.

I'm a police department armorer and maintain 150 P226's in 40 and have not run across a problem like the one you've encountered. Our guns have performed flawlessly for the 6 years they've been in service.

I hope they fix it and do it for free. These guns aren't cheap. I found the rep's comment "Factory warranty covers all function and defect issues, not failures related to ammo" eyebrow raising. I always thought guns were built to contain the ammo, make it go bang, and sent the bullet part downrange where you're pointing it without gun parts flying off in different directions. But that's just me I guess.

Good luck with your issue. I hope they make it right.

Jeff

yzernie
09-04-2010, 11:37 PM
Wow, sure is a lot of negativity directed at Sig and they have not yet determined if it is a gun related failure. In all of the Sigs I have sold, I have only had to send one back for a customer for a minor non-function related repair. I hate to see folks screaming the sky is falling when a decision has not been made as of yet. How about if we wait and see what the outcome is at Sig.

I am curious about the case failure on the round. That, just by itself, strikes me as odd because I have never seen a case split like that in a Sig. I have put 10's of thousands of rounds through all of my personal Sigs over the years and have never seen a case split right there. I have had cases crack at the mouth but that was as a result of multiple reloadings and my not paying careful enough attention to the cases before I loaded them. I might expect to see a split like that in a gun with an unsupported chamber but not in a Sig.

I took the liberty of placing a round into the barrel of my own P226 and took a couple pics. As you can see the split in his case is in the area where it is not supported in the chamber of the barrel. As I look at his split case my first thought is the round was somehow flawed and when it split the gases were then expelled into the area behind the chamber right where the ejector is located. Those gasses then forced the ejector outward and out of place.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j215/yzernie/BBLcase1-1.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j215/yzernie/BBLcase2-1.jpg

yzernie
09-05-2010, 12:06 AM
I can't tell from the OPs pic what brand the round was that split. Obviously not a Wolf. Can you advise and not a slam but maybe get a more in focus pic for me to look at? Thanks!!

RRichie09
09-05-2010, 12:07 AM
Wow, sure is a lot of negativity directed at Sig and they have not yet determined if it is a gun related failure. In all of the Sigs I have sold, I have only had to send one back for a customer for a minor non-function related repair. I hate to see folks screaming the sky is falling when a decision has not been made as of yet. How about if we wait and see what the outcome is at Sig.


Actually, it kind of sounds like Sig has already determined the cause of the problem. Hopefully, the person on the phone is just reading a script and Sig will do the right thing if indeed it is a manufacturing defect and not an ammo problem as they stated. Still, why would it be Sig's policy to blame the ammo before even looking at the gun. That part just doesn't sit right with me.


I called Sig and they said I need to get in touch with the ammo manufacturer to have them pay for the repairs as it is an ammo related failure.



I was told that the issue with my firearm was an ammunition problem and that it wasn't covered under the warranty. However, since the ammo was SAAMI spec factory ammo that the manufacturer should cover repair costs.

I asked about what my warranty actually covered and if my ruptured case was related to the FTE issues I had been experiencing but was told no. Factory warranty covers all function and defect issues, not failures related to ammo.

yzernie
09-05-2010, 12:19 AM
Actually, it kind of sounds like Sig has already determined the cause of the problem. Hopefully, the person on the phone is just reading a script and Sig will do the right thing if indeed it is a manufacturing defect and not an ammo problem as they stated. Still, why would it be Sig's policy to blame the ammo before even looking at the gun. That part just doesn't sit right with me.
In all honesty, the folks that answer the phones are no different than the people who answer the phone at the Ford dealer when you call with a problem, they are trying to see if you'll pay for a repair. The real guys that work on the guns have the final decision and I am confident if it was a gun related failure they will do what is right. Their customer service isn't what it used to be a couple years back when SigArms was in charge and now that Sig Sauer has reestablished themselves with the company the CS has gotten better.

RRichie09
09-05-2010, 12:25 AM
In all honesty, the folks that answer the phones are no different than the people who answer the phone at the Ford dealer when you call with a problem, they are trying to see if you'll pay for a repair. The real guys that work on the guns have the final decision and I am confident if it was a gun related failure they will do what is right. Their customer service isn't what it used to be a couple years back when SigArms was in charge and now that Sig Sauer has reestablished themselves with the company the CS has gotten better.

Well, that is good to know. I understand that Sig is a large company and the CS people do not represent the gun smiths, but I know that if I was in charge of Sig I would make sure that the people on the phone did not make statements they are obviously not qualified to make. The firearm should be inspected before the cause is determined, but then again that is probably why people do not seem to like Ron Cohen very much. :p

I am watching this thread closely as I would really like to purchase a P226 in the near future.

I'm pulling for you Zniner, even if you are a 9'ers fan. :D

P95
09-05-2010, 12:55 AM
ZNinerFan,

You mentioned that you had experienced several FTE's. Several Calgun members have had problems with FTE's and strange ejection patterns (casings hitting in the face) with new SP2022's purchased from Turner's recent sales (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=321860 ). Sig replaced the ejectors in some of the guns that were sent in for inspection.

ZNinerFan
09-05-2010, 5:43 AM
I think Ernie did a good job describing what happened. When I fired the round in the handgun, the slide did not recoil back and my face was peppered with gunpowder residue and escaping gases.

I immediately realized that something had happened so I removed the mag and then looked the gun over and realized the extractor was blown out. After that I racked back the slide and noted the ruptured case stuck in the chamber.

I went ahead and removed the slide from the frame and came home and tapped out the case. After which I took the pictures and posted up here.

One thing that I am wondering about is if the FTE issues and the ruptured case are related in any way or if I just got a double whammy of bad luck with extractor drama and a hot load on a round in the same day.

As an aside, always wear your safety glasses when you shoot guns. I am glad I wore mine (I always do) as I would have had more serious problems to deal with than just a blown out extractor on a handgun. I heard the powder grains hitting my safety glasses and I don't relish the idea of what would have happened had I not been wearing them.

To everyone, like I mentioned earlier, I don't want this to be a Sig bashing thread. I can tell you I was impressed with the fit and finish on the handgun, the trigger was light and crisp, and I am hoping that once whatever is wrong with the handgun is fixed, that it will be the reliable handgun that I hoped it would be. I don't mind paying out of pocket to get the handgun fixed and I am not placing blame on the handgun or ammo manufacturer.

When I originally posted, I wanted to know if anyone had a similar experience and if they could offer any advice on how to get my handgun fixed.

The customer service rep took all of my information over the phone and 5 minutes later I had my UPS label sitting in my email as an attachment. After 20 minutes the handgun was dropped off to UPS and en route to Sig for repairs. I was quoted a 3 week turnaround on the repair.

I will update this thread as soon as I hear back from the folks over at Sig.

**Edit**

For the record, my Niners are going to take the NFC West crown...

RRichie09
09-05-2010, 5:52 AM
For the record, my Niners are going to take the NFC West crown...

I hope everything works out for the best regarding your sig.

As for your niners... I guess making the playoffs by default after 8 years would be a nice achievement. :p

VictorFranko
09-05-2010, 6:02 AM
Bummer about your new Sig, and a surprising attitude from their service department.
Funny, if this had been a Glock, this thread would be riddled with folks posting "You should have bought a Sig" comments.
So let me be the first: You should have bought a Glock :43:

cpt_majestic
09-05-2010, 6:06 AM
In all honesty, the folks that answer the phones are no different than the people who answer the phone at the Ford dealer when you call with a problem, they are trying to see if you'll pay for a repair. The real guys that work on the guns have the final decision and I am confident if it was a gun related failure they will do what is right. Their customer service isn't what it used to be a couple years back when SigArms was in charge and now that Sig Sauer has reestablished themselves with the company the CS has gotten better.

Couldn't of said it better myself. I'm sure Sig will do what's right once they get it in the shop. If they give you trouble once they get it I'd demand manager/supervisor, heck owner, to discuss it.

cineski
09-05-2010, 7:39 AM
Don't read so much into a corporate name game. It's still the exact same company. They just changed their name from SIG Arms to SIG Sauer. Oh, and there's also differences in auto customer service which is why I refused to buy certain brands (based on the treatment of customers locally).

In all honesty, the folks that answer the phones are no different than the people who answer the phone at the Ford dealer when you call with a problem, they are trying to see if you'll pay for a repair. The real guys that work on the guns have the final decision and I am confident if it was a gun related failure they will do what is right. Their customer service isn't what it used to be a couple years back when SigArms was in charge and now that Sig Sauer has reestablished themselves with the company the CS has gotten better.

yzernie
09-05-2010, 9:43 AM
ZNF,
Did you send the split case with the gun? If not, any chance you can post or send me a more in focus close up of it?

Please keep us updated. I'll send you a PM also.

Bullwinkle
09-07-2010, 11:02 AM
On the "News" section of Sig's website is an announcement that NCIS just upgraded their 15-year-old M11's (P228) to the P229 .40. I found the following quote amusing when put into the context of this thread. This is the NCIS representative talking. I added the bold typeface for emphasis.

"As a federal law enforcement agency with a worldwide mission and presence, we are thrilled that SIG SAUER has been identified to supply our new generation of handguns. NCIS special agents have been carrying the SIG SAUER M11 pistol for almost 15 years, and we are excited that the Department of the Navy is making this investment to upgrade our weapons to insure that our operators are better equipped. I am also very impressed with SIG SAUER, Inc., President and CEO, Ron Cohen, and his team. It is clear that their "customer first" approach has already paved the way for a continued and superb partnership."

Maybe it should be changed to "high-volume customer first approach"? Anyway, like everyone else here, I hope ZNinerFan is treated the way he deserves... er, by Sig w.r.t. his pistol, that is. Being a niner's fan, well, he deserves a different kind of treatment from everyone else! ;)

As an aside... if you've been following the SigPro thread, I'm one of the unfortunate souls who purchased one of the lemons. So far (knock on wood), Sig CS has been absolutely professional, courteous, and exactly what I would expect from a highly-reputable manufacturer like Sig. They received my pistol earlier this morning according to the tracking info, so now it's wait-and-see mode for whether they get the problem fixed.

GutPunch
09-07-2010, 11:40 AM
<tag>

Might be going Glock or Springfield after all... :(

9mmepiphany
09-07-2010, 12:59 PM
I hope ZNinerFan is treated the way he deserves... er, by Sig w.r.t. his pistol, that is...

So far (knock on wood), Sig CS has been absolutely professional, courteous, and exactly what I would expect from a highly-reputable manufacturer like Sig.

While I think it would be nice if Sig covered the repairs, the fact that they aren't doesn't make them less than absolutely professional. as a matter of fact, it could be argued that it is exactly what makes them professional...they are living up to their responsibilities as defined by their warranty

there was a weapon failure that was not due to any defect in design or workmanship, but due to the user's selection of ammo. this defect and the resulting damage/repair should lay squarely at the feet of the ammo manufacturer. that the OP has decided to cover this cost, rather than pursue it with the responsible party is solely his decision

How would that make Sig less professional...not as accommodating perhaps, but I don't think we should project a sense of entitlement into it

Bullwinkle
09-07-2010, 1:26 PM
there was a weapon failure that was not due to any defect in design or workmanship

How would that make Sig less professionalIt wouldn't... but it's a chicken & egg thing. You're assuming bad ammo blew out the extractor, whereas I'm "wondering" if the extraction problems ZNiner was having prior to the rupture somehow contributed to it. W/o examining the pistol first, no determination can be made.

So I guess the "professional" way to have handled it on Sig's end is to say, "Yeah, we'll repair it under warranty if we determine that it is our fault, but just so you know, if we don't determine that it was a defective pistol, then you'll have to pay for the repairs out-of-pocket and take it up with the ammo manufacturer after the fact."

Or to really make it easy on the customer, Sig could contact the ammo manufacturer directly on ZNiner's behalf.

Speaking from experience, there's nothing worse (well, almost nothing) than being an innocent victim caught in the middle of two monstrosities each blaming the other. super-monstrosities... health insurance and health care providers.]

benbangui
09-07-2010, 1:36 PM
sigs ejectors are mim

9mmepiphany
09-07-2010, 2:03 PM
You're assuming bad ammo blew out the extractor, whereas I'm "wondering" if the extraction problems ZNiner was having prior to the rupture somehow contributed to it. W/o examining the pistol first, no determination can be made.

Speaking from experience, there's nothing worse (well, almost nothing) than being an innocent victim caught in the middle of two monstrosities each blaming the other. super-monstrosities... health insurance and health care providers.]

I am assuming bad ammo, because I've never seen an extractor cause ammo to blow up...all it does is hold the rim of the case against the breach face (at the time of ignition)

I'm sure my experience wasn't as bad as yours, mine was only my homebuilder (Lennar)and the window supplier. (some company back east)

I told the builder that he was responsible of all materials he used, because I didn't select them, and he had the choice of fixing the window leaks or paying the bill when I had them done by a third party...whose bill was easily twice the builders cost

9mmepiphany
09-07-2010, 2:04 PM
sigs ejectors are mim

OK...I'll bite

when did they start making sheet metal pressings/stampings out of MIM?

benbangui
09-07-2010, 2:28 PM
OK...I'll bite

when did they start making sheet metal pressings/stampings out of MIM?

im not sure, and thats not an official statement :)

but my friends extractor broke. they sent him a new one, and on the package it said it was a "mim" part...

so thats all i know.

JohnnyCrash
09-07-2010, 3:00 PM
It wouldn't... but it's a chicken & egg thing. You're assuming bad ammo blew out the extractor, whereas I'm "wondering" if the extraction problems ZNiner was having prior to the rupture somehow contributed to it. W/o examining the pistol first, no determination can be made.

So I guess the "professional" way to have handled it on Sig's end is to say, "Yeah, we'll repair it under warranty if we determine that it is our fault, but just so you know, if we don't determine that it was a defective pistol, then you'll have to pay for the repairs out-of-pocket and take it up with the ammo manufacturer after the fact."

Or to really make it easy on the customer, Sig could contact the ammo manufacturer directly on ZNiner's behalf.

Speaking from experience, there's nothing worse (well, almost nothing) than being an innocent victim caught in the middle of two monstrosities each blaming the other. super-monstrosities... health insurance and health care providers.]



I could totally be wrong, but just judging by the photos - it looks like the ammo blew and it wasn't a faulty extractor.

If the gun wasn't to blame, you can expect any company to fight to reduce loss.

On the other hand, Sig shouldn't be so hasty, as mentioned, you were having FTE's prior to the mishap... so it could end up being the extractor after all.

While it's at the factory, you should also be calling the ammo manufacturer. Like Bullwinkle said, getting stuck between two corporations is a PITA... both are businesses and their job is to make money, so you can count on some bean counter in a loss-prevention department in the basement somewhere trying to avoid responsibility.

9mmepiphany
09-07-2010, 3:09 PM
im not sure, and thats not an official statement :)

but my friends extractor broke. they sent him a new one, and on the package it said it was a "mim" part...

so thats all i know.

I see the confusion, your original post was:
sigs ejectors are mim

yes their extractors are MIM and have been for awhile

yzernie
09-07-2010, 3:42 PM
Sig could contact the ammo manufacturer directly on ZNiner's behalf.
If it was the ammo that caused the problem, Sig (or S&W or HK or Ruger or, or, or) has absolutely no responsibility to act as the go-between between the gun owner and the ammo manufacturer.

If it can be proven or if it is the opinion of Sig's gunsmiths the ammo caused the problem the owner then has a beef with the ammo manufacturer. Based upon the Sig gunsmiths examination and opinion the ammo was the cause, I think the owner would have a great foundation for having the ammo manufacturer pay for the repairs.

Bullwinkle
09-07-2010, 4:30 PM
If it was the ammo that caused the problem, Sig (or S&W or HK or Ruger or, or, or) has absolutely no responsibility to act as the go-between between the gun owner and the ammo manufacturer.Okay, I think I understand now why I'm taking some punches in this thread. For the record, I am fully aware that Sig (or any other business in any industry) is under no responsibility whatsoever to do anything other than what is specified in the warranty, i.e. fix or replace Sig firearms that fail due to factory defects in parts or labor. They don't even have to be nice about it if they don't want to. Okay, I get it. Honest.

That said, if "the customer comes first" is actually important to a company and not just lip service, then the company will go the extra mile for the customer. It didn't sound (to me) like Sig went the extra mile for ZNiner; although they did provide a shipping label, so I'll give them credit for going an extra half-mile by not charging r/t shipping costs (yet).

ZNiner, I hope the situation resolves itself to your satisfaction. I'd probably break out in tears if I bought a brand new pistol with a near-$1K price tag out-the-door and then it blew up on my first range session, whether it was the ammo or the pistol at fault... or even if I dropped it in the parking lot and it got run over by a delivery truck! I feel for ya, man.

ZNinerFan
09-07-2010, 6:20 PM
Okay, I think I understand now why I'm taking some punches in this thread. For the record, I am fully aware that Sig (or any other business in any industry) is under no responsibility whatsoever to do anything other than what is specified in the warranty, i.e. fix or replace Sig firearms that fail due to factory defects in parts or labor. They don't even have to be nice about it if they don't want to. Okay, I get it. Honest.

That said, if "the customer comes first" is actually important to a company and not just lip service, then the company will go the extra mile for the customer. It didn't sound (to me) like Sig went the extra mile for ZNiner; although they did provide a shipping label, so I'll give them credit for going an extra half-mile by not charging r/t shipping costs (yet).

ZNiner, I hope the situation resolves itself to your satisfaction. I'd probably break out in tears if I bought a brand new pistol with a near-$1K price tag out-the-door and then it blew up on my first range session, whether it was the ammo or the pistol at fault... or even if I dropped it in the parking lot and it got run over by a delivery truck! I feel for ya, man.

Thanks bro, I appreciate the kind words.

The CS folks at Sig were professional and courteous with me over the phone and I did get my shipping label within 5 minutes of hanging up on the phone.

The part that bugs me is that I almost feel like I should have taken a video camera with me to the range and documented the whole thing with close ups of each bullet that I placed in the magazine and fired just to cover myself because at the end of the day it comes down to my word against theirs and I have no way of proving anything outside of a damaged gun. I just hate the fact we all have to turn into lawyers to cover ourselves.

I considered pursuing this with the ammo manufacturer but I don't have any way to prove that just because the shell casing has a head stamp from a certain manufacturer that it was a factory round that ruptured versus a reloaded round that happened to use their used shell casing. I just want to make it clear that it was a factory round and not a reload but looking at the rounds that are left from the box that the ruptured case came from there is nothing on the head stamp that denotes a manufactured date or lot # and even then the ammo manufacturer can still claim it was reloaded ammo.

It just seems easier for me to eat the repair costs than haggle with a bunch of people over a few hundred dollars. Hell, I am already into this gun close to 1k so what is another couple hundred at this point. If the repair costs come out to some ridiculous amount then I will tell the folks at Sig to destroy the gun and fill out whatever paperwork I need to with the CA DOJ stating I no longer have the gun (I really hope this doesn't happen).

If I get some kind of report from the armorer when I get my gun back I will be more than happy to share their findings with you guys.

Havoc70
09-08-2010, 11:11 AM
Tagging, since I own a Sig, I'm curious to see how this turns out.

JohnnyCrash
09-08-2010, 1:09 PM
That said, if "the customer comes first" is actually important to a company and not just lip service, then the company will go the extra mile for the customer. It didn't sound (to me) like Sig went the extra mile for ZNiner; although they did provide a shipping label, so I'll give them credit for going an extra half-mile by not charging r/t shipping costs (yet).



I hear that.

I used to work in CS for different companies (a long time back). There are usually SOPs for certain problems. Returns to factory generally have steps in order for CS to get return postage out to customers right away. In this case, something like faulty ammo should have standard operating procedures as well... perhaps 1) mail-in to factory to determine the cause. 2) then either contact the ammo manufacturer or fix it under warranty. Each step should have CS contact/update the customer.

If they streamlined the process for something like this they could offer better service, faster service, and "go the extra mile" with non-warranty issues without a whole lot of loss. Then the customer won't have to interface with two companies. Doing that tiny extra bit impresses customers - which gets return business and increases brand reputation.



The part that bugs me is that I almost feel like I should have taken a video camera with me to the range and documented the whole thing with close ups of each bullet that I placed in the magazine and fired just to cover myself because at the end of the day it comes down to my word against theirs and I have no way of proving anything outside of a damaged gun. I just hate the fact we all have to turn into lawyers to cover ourselves...

...If I get some kind of report from the armorer when I get my gun back I will be more than happy to share their findings with you guys.



HAHA! Bringing a video camera? Yeah, that is sad that a random blowout is causing such a PITA. It seems warranty service ends up becoming a game of hot potato where everyone involved tries to pass it off to somebody else.

I'm hoping SIG steps up... I'm about to purchase a SIG and I'm very interested how this turns out :)

Please, keep us posted! I hope everything works out for you.

ZNinerFan
10-07-2010, 4:50 AM
I just wanted to update this thread and let everyone know I received an email this morning notifying me that my handgun was being shipped back to me. According to the tracking, it should be in tomorrow.

I will post up the results from the Sig Armorer/Smith examining and repairing my gun and let you guys know what the costs for the gun repair were too. I will try and scan the actual report and post it for everyone to read but probably wont be able to do that until Monday afternoon as I will need to scan it into a pdf at work.

I am surprised that Sig didn't email me an invoice detailing the costs related to the repair when they sent me the shipping notification. I may give them a quick call when they open at 5:30 today before I hit the gym.

Edit - Update

Got off the phone with Sig and the repair cost was $135. The notes in the account from the Head Smith who repaired the gun stated that the extractor was replaced due to an ammunition case head failure.

Going to take the gun to the range this Saturday and see how she performs post repairs.

Bullwinkle
10-07-2010, 11:45 AM
I suppose the good side to this is that the 'smith specifically stated it was an ammo failure, so if you still have the blown-up casing in your possession, maybe you can still persue with the ammo manufacturer for reimbursement? There's got to be a way for them to determine that it was "factory fresh" and not a reload, doesn't there?

yzernie
10-07-2010, 5:13 PM
IEdit - Update

Got off the phone with Sig and the repair cost was $135. The notes in the account from the Head Smith who repaired the gun stated that the extractor was replaced due to an ammunition case head failure.

Going to take the gun to the range this Saturday and see how she performs post repairs.
Just as I suspected. I'm glad you got the gun repaired and especially pleased at the fact that the smith listed the ammo failure as the cause. If you pursue the costs of the repair with the ammo manufacturer the smith's comment will be important.

Glad you're getting your baby back. Have fun!!

himurax13
10-07-2010, 5:34 PM
I am subscribing to this thread as well. I am curious to see how the ammo manufacturers handle this sort of claim.

ZNinerFan
10-09-2010, 8:35 AM
Here is the report from the Smith at Sig. I removed my personal info and name of the ammo manufacturer that was mentioned in the report.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/FishinCali/Gun%20Pics/SigSmithLetter.jpg

One thing I don't understand is that I have a charge for $135 on my credit card that was put on there by Sig on October 6th but there is no invoice or mention of cost anywhere on the paperwork that came back with my gun.

fullrearview
10-09-2010, 10:09 AM
Here is the report from the Smith at Sig. I removed my personal info and name of the ammo manufacturer that was mentioned in the report.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/FishinCali/Gun%20Pics/SigSmithLetter.jpg

One thing I don't understand is that I have a charge for $135 on my credit card that was put on there by Sig on October 6th but there is no invoice or mention of cost anywhere on the paperwork that came back with my gun.

Thats wierd....They may have reserved the cash, but never took it, and the refund just hasent gone back. I have seen that before.


YZernie....I LOVE sigs....Nothing better! That being said, the best, most profitable companies I have found, take things and repair them, NO QUESTIONS ASKED! I know were talking about $1,200 handguns here, but they would benifit hugely from a policy such as that.

My Ex of 3 years, her mother was VP of Nordstrom. They had a policy like that, which she implemented, and they saw their profits and praise go through the roof.

Sounds like there is a huge disconect between the paper pushers and those who actually make and fire the weapons.

ZNinerFan
10-09-2010, 1:55 PM
I will call Sig customer service on Monday and see what the deal is. If they performed the repairs free of charge then I would like to post that fact for all to see.

On another note, I took my Sig to the range and put 150 rounds through her without any hiccups. I put 100 rounds of RWS 124 gr and 50 rounds of Federal 115 gr ball ammo through her. I would have stayed a little longer but I forgot to bring my hat and didn't want to get a sun burn on my bald head.

One thing I need to do is replace the factory sights. I have almost exclusively shot handguns with 3 dot sights and the Sig front dot with rear white bar is throwing me for a bit of a loop. It took real effort on my part to focus on my aim to get consistent grouping at 25 yards, whereas with 3 dot sights I am going strictly by muscle memory and reflex without having to focus on how the aperture is lined up.

Stupid question to long time Sig owners regarding the factory sights. Should the front white dot and rear white bar be continuous white for everything to be lined up proper when aiming?

Anywho, I have her cleaned and lubed from the trip and loaded up with my home defense Ammo. I will try and take her back to the range next Saturday if I can.

Now only if my Niners can scratch out a win tomorrow night I can consider this a good weekend...

fullrearview
10-09-2010, 2:03 PM
I will call Sig customer service on Monday and see what the deal is. If they performed the repairs free of charge then I would like to post that fact for all to see.

On another note, I took my Sig to the range and put 150 rounds through her without any hiccups. I put 100 rounds of RWS 124 gr and 50 rounds of Federal 115 gr ball ammo through her. I would have stayed a little longer but I forgot to bring my hat and didn't want to get a sun burn on my bald head.

One thing I need to do is replace to factory sights. I have almost exclusively shot handguns with 3 dot sights and the Sig front dot with rear white bar is throwing me for a bit of a loop. It took real effort on my part to focus on my aim to get consistent grouping at 25 yards, whereas with 3 dot sights I am going strictly by muscle memory and reflex without having to focus on how the aperture is lined up.

Stupid question to long time Sig owners regarding the factory sights. Should the front white dot and rear white bar be continuous white for everything to be lined up proper when aiming?

Anywho, I have her cleaned and lubed from the trip and loaded up with my home defense Ammo. I will try and take her back to the range next Saturday if I can.

Now only if my Niners can scratch out a win tomorrow night I can consider this a good weekend...

I agree on the sights.....next thing for my xdm is night sights.....the standard 3 dot are good for day time, but Im so used to night sights.

Yeah....I bet by the time you call them monday, you will see that fee has been returned.

9mmepiphany
10-09-2010, 2:20 PM
...without having to focus on how the aperture is lined up.
Do you mean the notch of the rear sight?


Stupid question to long time Sig owners regarding the factory sights. Should the front white dot and rear white bar be continuous white for everything to be lined up proper when aiming?

Correctly aligned sights will have the front blade centered in the rear notch with the top of the front blade level with the top of the ears of the rear sight. The dot and bar are meant as alignment aids, not as aiming points...but then neither are the 3-dots

ZNinerFan
10-09-2010, 2:26 PM
Do you mean the notch of the rear sight?



Correctly aligned sights will have the front blade centered in the rear notch with the top of the front blade level with the top of the ears of the rear sight. The dot and bar are meant as alignment aids, not as aiming points...but then neither are the 3-dots

When I aim with 3 dot sights, the 3 dots are literally on a level horizontal plane when looking at them from the rear.

What is hard for me, is that I am having trouble achieving that level plane with the white front dot and rear white bar. I can tell you right now, that my shots were a bit on the low side until I really focused on making sure the white was smack dab in the middle of the ears of the rear sight.

Edit

Another question - So then what role does the white bar play in relation to alignment with the front white dot? For some reason I was thinking, that the gun was level horizontally and vertically if the white dot and white bar were a perfect continuous white stripe when looking at them from behind but that didn't appear to be the case. I found myself either shooting too low or too high of what I was aiming at.

9mmepiphany
10-09-2010, 6:23 PM
The technique is usually called Dotting the I...it's primary attribute is limiting lateral despersion. To determine the correct relationship, just align your sights using the blades and observe the relationship between the dot and the bar.

The advantage of the Dot the I sight set over the 3-Dot sight set is two-fold:
1. they are faster for you sub-conscious to recognize as being aligned
2. it is easier to ignore the rear bar than the two rear dots when shooting fast and dirty

yzernie
10-09-2010, 8:22 PM
YZernie....I LOVE sigs....Nothing better! That being said, the best, most profitable companies I have found, take things and repair them, NO QUESTIONS ASKED! I know were talking about $1,200 handguns here, but they would benifit hugely from a policy such as that.
I would like to think they would cover it and my experience with Sig CS is they very well may never place the charge on his card. The reality is though, with the diagnosis being the ammo failure they are under no obligation to repair the gun under warranty. I'm anxious to see what the outcome is. Monday is a holiday and they may not be in the offices. My usual weekly e-mail from my rep that comes on Monday mornings came on Friday this week.

BostonFan
10-09-2010, 8:30 PM
My sig 229 did pretty much the same thing to me except the extractor exploded. No ftf other than the one time. Happened around 200 rounds. Called up sig and they sent me a new extractor for free. No issues since. They said it was I probably over-lubed the gun

docflash
10-10-2010, 11:12 AM
I am hoping that upon completely stripping the handgun they find some manufacturer defect so glaringly obvious that they fix it for free.

If not I will pay and hope that it ends up being the reliable handgun I wanted it to be.

I didn't even have the gun in my possession for a whole 24 hours...looks like my 10 day wait will end up being a 30 day wait...:(

I was also informed by the Sig Customer Service Rep, that my replacing the factory grips with Hogue rubber grips technically had already voided my warranty but that I should just put the factory grips back on before I sent the gun back to them, which I did.



This is getting more and more ridiculous. Wonder what would glock do to their customers. I am planning buying a sig next month, and this incident is seriously scaring me.:(

The reason that replacing the grips technically voids the warranty is that grip screws of the wrong length will impinge on the trigger bar spring and cause a malfunction.

Jeff

ZNinerFan
10-12-2010, 5:57 PM
I received the invoice from Sig today. It was the full breakdown of the $135 charge for the repairs.

davebee456
11-18-2010, 10:05 PM
After 40 rounds fired at the range today My Excellent P-226R Failed, only 2nd trip ever with this pistol.
The 226 Jammed up bad while firing, I did a tap rack and I had to strip the mag out..
I looked closer and I see the empty case is still in the chamber and my P226R doesnt have an extractor or pin or extractor spring anymore...

After around 200 rounds total the gun is a paper weight.

I called the range officer over and we examined the empty case that was in the chamber and like an idiot I didnt keep it. After I pulled it out with my finger nail it looked fine, It was Federal American Eagle 124gr FMJ however I was worried i now have a $780.00 paper weight.

I called Sig and sent it back to them, The rep on the phone told me this happens and every time it has happened its been the ammo's fault.

I told the rep i never ever fire reloads and this is very frustrating.
They told me that a gunsmith will examine the pistol to see if it was ammo related failure which I am sure they will say it was.

If Ammo related i will have to pay 200 dollars or more for a gun i will be selling, if they fix it for free under warranty i will give it another 200 rounds to see if any thing else fails.

g17owner
11-18-2010, 10:21 PM
I would never buy a new SIG. They don't make them like the older ones nor do they stand behind their product like they did in the 90's. I am speaking from personal experience not the OP's incident. I have a German 1996 P220 and it is superb. The P220 combat i had bought to replace it was NOT anything like the older one. I promptly replaced it with a W. german P226 with internal extractor. (dont get me started on the internal vs external extractor issue on sigs) I just dont trust or like the newer sig. The phrase "they don't make them like they used to" is so true with the newer sigs.

Arondos
11-19-2010, 12:59 AM
I was debating between a P226 and a Glock chambered in .357sig.

After reading things like installing grips voids your warranty and the first thing they seem to do is jump on blame the ammo I think I will look for another companies product.

Maybe I'll try the Glock kool-Aid.

ZNinerFan
11-19-2010, 4:28 AM
After 40 rounds fired at the range today My Excellent P-226R Failed, only 2nd trip ever with this pistol.
The 226 Jammed up bad while firing, I did a tap rack and I had to strip the mag out..
I looked closer and I see the empty case is still in the chamber and my P226R doesnt have an extractor or pin or extractor spring anymore...

After around 200 rounds total the gun is a paper weight.

I called the range officer over and we examined the empty case that was in the chamber and like an idiot I didnt keep it. After I pulled it out with my finger nail it looked fine, It was Federal American Eagle 124gr FMJ however I was worried i now have a $780.00 paper weight.

I called Sig and sent it back to them, The rep on the phone told me this happens and every time it has happened its been the ammo's fault.

I told the rep i never ever fire reloads and this is very frustrating.
They told me that a gunsmith will examine the pistol to see if it was ammo related failure which I am sure they will say it was.

If Ammo related i will have to pay 200 dollars or more for a gun i will be selling, if they fix it for free under warranty i will give it another 200 rounds to see if any thing else fails.

Sorry to hear that happened to you. It sounds like the exact same thing that happened to my Sig, although my extractor was dislodged and not blown out completely. Glad you weren't hurt by any flying debris. I know you don't have your spent case but do you remember where the location of the failure/bulge/deformity was when you pulled the case out?

I never pursued getting a reimbursement by the ammo manufacturer because I didn't think it was worth the headache but you could get in touch with Federal once you get the Smith's letter and see if they are willing to cover the repair costs.

I wonder why they are charging you $200 for what it sounds like they charged me $135 for?

For what it's worth, I have put another 400 rounds through my Sig post repair without any issues.

I considered selling my Sig and buying a Glock 17 but I just don't like polymer framed handguns or grip angle on Glocks.

davebee456
11-21-2010, 9:37 PM
the empty case was not deformed or blown out, the empty brass in my case looked exactly like any other...I didnt see any damage to the barrel or magazine or frame...so I think its just weak parts, bad QC...

Theriverjustknows
11-21-2010, 10:51 PM
I had this exact same thing happen to me with a nib CZ. I called them up and they told me they couldn't help and that I could do it myself. Luckily I'm an aspiring gunsmith so I took it on as a project and did do it myself under a professional smith's supervision.

What happen was the roll pin holding the extractor fractured in two spots. So it's jammed in there and misaligned so you can't tap it out. I had to carefully drill out one end until you can work the extractor free. Then tap out the third piece of the pin. If the extractor is stuck in there like mine was don't waste time with punches. We broke 3 or 4 and it never budged. Everything was fine inside, it just needed a new roll pin. We never settled on a cause, everyone had a different opinion.

chim-chim7
11-21-2010, 11:27 PM
That round was never seated completely in the barrel. It my understanding that the brass was bulged slightly to begin with, so it would not slip in completely. Somehow it still managed to fire without completely at battery. The thinned bulged area already weakened could not take the pressure. This problem is completely ammo related. The customer service at Sig was half right, but you should argue the fact that the gun will still fire without being at battery, and they should look at that as well. Good luck.

MojoMoses
01-01-2011, 7:31 AM
I have a Sig 226 Tactical. It ran great until about round 700 when I had a case blow up. About 200 rounds later a 2nd round blew apart (case came apart just in front of the rim and FTE), which blew out the extractor (same as pictured previously). A gun smith was on hand and he quickly put it back in place. We determined that it was definitely an ammo problem - reloads from Cabela's. I switched to Winchester white box for 100 rounds then to Federal for another 50. No problems. What happened next is entirely my fault. Still having about 150 more reloads I decided to burn through them. About 20 rounds in I had the same malfunction, but this time the malfunction blew the extractor and pin completely out of the gun. For the 3rd time I had a hot gas cloud smack me in the face (always, always, use eye protection, which I always do). I felt stupid and everyone around me couldn't believe I would go back for more punishment. An inspection showed no damage to the gun. The remainder of the reloads went straight into the garbage. The spring, pin and extractor cost about $35 from Midway, and I feel that's a small price to pay considering my bad judgment. When I receive the parts next week I'll be shipping them and the gun to Gray's Guns for a performance treatment.

This is a fantastic gun and I will never again put anything other than new factory loads, or my dad's hand-loads, into it. The Cabela's reloads were a present and I would never have bought them myself. Making me feel doubly foolish I had preached to my shooting buddies to never trust Joe Schmo's reloads, only Black Hills. I should listen to my own words. I am a recent convert to Sig from both 1911s and Glocks. I love my 226 (and have also gotten a 2nd one), but I do wonder if the extractor should be a bit more robust.

As an aside... I had run several hundred of these same reloads through my Uzi with no problems. Either I was was lucky with the Uzi, or the Uzi is just so damn strong that I didn't notice any issues.

zdragon
01-01-2011, 9:33 AM
That round was never seated completely in the barrel. It my understanding that the brass was bulged slightly to begin with, so it would not slip in completely. Somehow it still managed to fire without completely at battery. The thinned bulged area already weakened could not take the pressure. This problem is completely ammo related. The customer service at Sig was half right, but you should argue the fact that the gun will still fire without being at battery, and they should look at that as well. Good luck.

that's why every single reloaded cartridge i did is individually checked to see it drops freely into the chamber as a final step for extra insurance.

Shenaniguns
01-01-2011, 10:27 AM
Don't buy a new SIG until Mr. Cohen's arse is skidding out the front door. Just curious exactly what they said to you on the phone besides call Federal? BTW, Federal makes some of the finest ammo available today.


Can I get an amen! Lol