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jakemccoy
09-02-2010, 9:48 PM
During what time period exactly, is it legal to hold a loaded handgun in public? For example, you have a self-defense encounter. You take out your gun in legal self-defense. Let's assume holding a loaded gun in public is legal at that point of the encounter based on your location, who you are, etc. At what point exactly after that does it become illegal to be continue holding your loaded handgun openly. Is there a definitive legal answer?

The "common sense" answer fails me sometimes. As another example, let's suppose you legally use your gun in self-defense. You then call the cops, who then show up an hour later. A threat may still exist after all that time, in which case it may be legal to have your loaded gun out still. Even if there is no threat, it may be wise to have your gun out in clear view for when the cops show up. Now, if you have a round in the chamber and your gun is being carried openly while there is no longer a threat, then technically that's illegal. I guess. I don't know for sure. That's why pose the question.

There are many other examples if you use your imagination. The question is important because I can imagine many scenarios where a prosecutor could charge you for illegal possession, or something like that, after you legally used your gun for self-defense. We're in California after all.

vta
09-02-2010, 9:52 PM
its an interesting question and i don't know the answer and dont know if the law states specifically. i would imagine it will be looked at on a case by case basis. similar to discharging a firearm in city limits. it is illegal but you will not likely be charged if its for self defense. just make sure you are carrying it legally before the incident started. Either CCW, UOC or LUCC depending on what is legally available to you.

i would not keep the gun in plain view once the threat has subsided. in fact you will want to tuck that thing away as soon as you dont think you need it any more. the last thing you want is for the cops to think you are the active shooter they are going after and let the real bad guys get away.

Killawhale415
09-02-2010, 9:53 PM
Unless you have a permit youre in some s***

shortround1
09-02-2010, 9:55 PM
We can't legally open carry loaded in the first place.

armygunsmith
09-02-2010, 9:57 PM
It's a very good question. I've wondered the same thing. Especially if you were carrying LUCC. I suppose that if you has a CCW then you would reholster your weapon, but with LUCC you would unload then lock you weapon back up? I'd like to see what you guys think as well.

vta
09-02-2010, 9:58 PM
We can't legally open carry loaded in the first place.

i dont think you guys completely understand the OPs question.

imagine doing LUCC (locked unloaded conceal carry) which is legal in most places in CA. You are at the mall, a gunman starts spraying bullets. you unlock your case and load a magazine to fight back.

that is the kind of scenario he is talking about.

vta
09-02-2010, 9:59 PM
It's a very good question. I've wondered the same thing. Especially if you were carrying LUCC. I suppose that if you has a CCW then you would reholster your weapon, but with LUCC you would unload then lock you weapon back up? I'd like to see what you guys think as well.

thats what i would do. i would keep it up and ready if i am still in immediate danger. once that no longer applies, i would return it in the original carry mode.

bellwilliam
09-02-2010, 10:00 PM
There are many scenario that would happen. Say u work in a shop in a mall. A perk stab a lady in the mall, u run outside with ur gun. U are now in a public place. Ccw don't apply here.

Librarian
09-02-2010, 10:02 PM
Presumably you are referring to PC 12031: (j)(1)Nothing in this section is intended to preclude the carrying of any loaded firearm, under circumstances where it would otherwise be lawful, by a person who reasonably believes that the person or property of himself or herself or of another is in immediate, grave danger and that the carrying of the weapon is necessary for the preservation of that person or property. As used in this subdivision, "immediate" means the brief interval before and after the local law enforcement agency, when reasonably possible, has been notified of the danger and before the arrival of its assistance.

That language does not provide anything 'definitive' - it's all situational, I think.

pyromensch
09-02-2010, 10:02 PM
During what time period exactly, is it legal to hold a loaded handgun in public? For example, you have a self-defense encounter. You take out your gun in legal self-defense. Let's assume holding a loaded gun in public is legal at that point of the encounter based on your location, who you are, etc. At what point exactly after that does it become illegal to be continue holding your loaded handgun openly. Is there a definitive legal answer?

The "common sense" answer fails me sometimes. As another example, let's suppose you legally use your gun in self-defense. You then call the cops, who then show up an hour later. A threat may still exist after all that time, in which case it may be legal to have your loaded gun out still. Even if there is no threat, it may be wise to have your gun out in clear view for when the cops show up. Now, if you have a round in the chamber and your gun is being carried openly while there is no longer a threat, then technically that's illegal. I guess. I don't know for sure. That's why pose the question.

There are many other examples if you use your imagination. The question is important because I can imagine many scenarios where a prosecutor could charge you for illegal possession, or something like that, after you legally used your gun for self-defense. We're in California after all.

if i were you, and any type of this situation came up. i would in NO WAY, have my firearm out if there was no threat, when the cops arrive. good way to get shot, or at the least roughed up. put it away, then when they arrive, make sure your hands are away from you firearm, (like the top of your head)and tell them, that you are armed, and exactly where it is.

Killawhale415
09-02-2010, 10:02 PM
^But thats why the ninjas are there

pyromensch
09-02-2010, 10:04 PM
There are many scenario that would happen. Say u work in a shop in a mall. A perk stab a lady in the mall, u run outside with ur gun. U are now in a public place. Ccw don't apply here.

i doubt that it would apply, once you step out of your place of business, into a mall. but a jury, and you being a "good samaritan", might help, as long as you don't get shot by some over zealous security officer

MudCamper
09-02-2010, 10:05 PM
PC 12031 is the law that makes carrying a loaded firearm illegal. In addition to the home and business and campsite exemptions, it contains the following exceptions:

(j) (1) Nothing in this section is intended to preclude the carrying of any loaded firearm, under circumstances where it would otherwise be lawful, by a person who reasonably believes that the person or property of himself or herself or of another is in immediate, grave danger and that the carrying of the weapon is necessary for the preservation of that person or property. As used in this subdivision, "immediate" means the brief interval before and after the local law enforcement agency, when reasonably possible, has been notified of the danger and before the arrival of its assistance.

(k) Nothing in this section is intended to preclude the carrying of a loaded firearm by any person while engaged in the act of making or attempting to make a lawful arrest.

vta
09-02-2010, 10:05 PM
^But thats why the ninjas are there

malls around the world are much safer now with Gecko45 patrolling the food court :43:

ebencikiv
09-02-2010, 10:12 PM
^ THIS:iagree:

BillCA
09-02-2010, 11:03 PM
There are many scenario that would happen. Say u work in a shop in a mall. A perk stab a lady in the mall, u run outside with ur gun. U are now in a public place. Ccw don't apply here.
Say you type correctly and make it easier to read for us all, please?
I'll presume "perk" was a typo for "perp".

In a public place - a shopping center or mall, city park, gas station, etc. the first question you need to ask yourself is should I get involved? The next question is what level involvement you should employ. It may be better to call 911 and report the situation in order get a rapid EMS response and police enroute than chasing someone like a TV hero.

For the sake of argument, we'll presume the incident involves Willy Wifebeater who is chasing after his soon-to-be-ex-wife in the parking lot, banging away at her with some kind of firearm. If your resolution to the situation involves firing a shot or holding the perp on the ground at gunpoint, you'll relinquish your firearm to the PD. In that case, because of exigent circumstances, it's unlikely to be a violation of loaded carry statutes.

In another situation, you're home when you hear a noise in your neighbor's yard. Looking out you don't see anything, but can hear some kind of thumping or light metallic clanking. Suspecting burlgars at your neighbor's darkened home, you tell the wife to call 911. Meanwhile, you slip on your Glock and paddle holster to go check. Walking over, you find no sign of people at the front door. Nor are any windows open. The garage door checks fine too. After several minutes and checking the house's doors and windows, you think it might've been a false alarm. You retreat to your own porch to wait for police.

Could they arrest for a loaded gun in public? Possibly. Since you determined there was little likelihood of a threat, the gun should no longer be necessary. Especially if it takes the PD another 40 minutes to arrive. The DA will argue that the prudent man would realize any threat has passed and would have re-secured his firearm.

On the other hand... If the front screen door is ajar (and wasn't previously) and/or you thought you saw light/movement inside, then there is a legitimate argument that you may defensively need the firearm if potential intruders depart before police arrive.


We presume this to make it simple. If it's a gang member stealing a car or trying to whack a rival, you could end up in a 1:4 situation. Any kind of planned robbery/hold-up or heist could result in the same. A simple robbery may be over fast, with the perp having 50-100 yards head start.

whytea
09-03-2010, 2:13 PM
Using the term "perp" screams mall ninja.

LE would refer to him/her as "The scumbag"

glockman19
09-03-2010, 3:00 PM
So If I am going to the bank and getting valuable jewelry from the safe deposit box to take home. Is it reasonable to carry a loaded concealed gun to protect your self and property?

California Constitution
Article 1
ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS
SECTION 1. All people are by nature free and independent and have
inalienable rights. Among these are enjoying and defending life and
liberty, acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and pursuing
and obtaining safety, happiness, and privacy.

Adj. 1. inalienable - incapable of being repudiated or transferred to another "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights"

2. inalienable - not subject to forfeiture; "an unforfeitable right"

JanG
09-03-2010, 6:00 PM
^I don't think that applies in our great state :rolleyes:

RTE
09-03-2010, 6:14 PM
Interesting question and I know what the answer should be.

But in CA if you somehow got shot first, You should be good to go possessing a loaded gun.....legal after the fact if you will.

Fishslayer
09-03-2010, 8:57 PM
Follow the movie rules. When the BG goes down, throw the weapon away then find some reason to turn your back to the BG so he can then get up and disect you with the chainsaw...or skewer yer brain with a nail gun...or whatever...

J-cat
09-03-2010, 9:22 PM
I suggest you handle your business and follow the officer's instructions when contacted. You will not be prosecuted for having your gun out too long if your self defense/arrest situation is justified. DA's are not out to get you.

ilikeguns
09-03-2010, 10:28 PM
The "when making a lawful arrest" is what I dont understand. I make lawful arrests every day at work, but would I be ok in carrying a loaded firearm while doing so? Im not a cop or ccw.

J-cat
09-04-2010, 8:19 AM
Are you wondering if you can carry a loaded gun because there is a possibility of making a lawful arrest? No. I believe you have to first observe a crime, then arm yourself, and then proceed with the arrest.