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View Full Version : M4 copy-cat LEGAL upper


FinweElensar
05-11-2006, 10:39 AM
Can someone point to the legal M4 Bushmaster upper, one's 14.5 (http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/uppers/post-ban/pura3b14m4iz.asp) with a welded izzy brake(is that a flash suppressor?) and the other has a 16" barrel (http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/uppers/post-ban/pura2b16m4.asp)...

What about the Fixed mini-y comp (http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/uppers/post-ban/pura3b14m4my.asp)?

shopkeep
05-11-2006, 11:01 AM
All of these are lawful as long as the flash hider/brake is permenantly welded on to create a 16 inch barrel.

DrjonesUSA
05-11-2006, 11:05 AM
FWIW, I've read of cases in which the ATF tried to unscrew a welded on flash-suppressor.

When they couldn't unscrew it, they MILLED flats onto it (in order to get better purchase) and torqued the thing until the welds broke.

They then went on to prosecute the owner of the "illegally shortened barrel".

:rolleyes:

FinweElensar
05-11-2006, 11:07 AM
FWIW, I've read of cases in which the ATF tried to unscrew a welded on flash-suppressor.

When they couldn't unscrew it, they MILLED flats onto it (in order to get better purchase) and torqued the thing until the welds broke.

They then went on to prosecute the owner of the "illegally shortened barrel".

:rolleyes:

That's good to know... Thanks for the heads up

1911_sfca
05-11-2006, 11:08 AM
FWIW, I've read of cases in which the ATF tried to unscrew a welded on flash-suppressor.

When they couldn't unscrew it, they MILLED flats onto it (in order to get better purchase) and torqued the thing until the welds broke.

They then went on to prosecute the owner of the "illegally shortened barrel".

:rolleyes:

Do you have a reference for that? I'd like to learn more about what happened.

DrjonesUSA
05-11-2006, 11:08 AM
That's good to know... Thanks for the heads up


Welcome.

I think the uber-long suppressor looks odd anyway.

DrjonesUSA
05-11-2006, 11:08 AM
Do you have a reference for that? I'd like to learn more about what happened.


Not right now.

If I do, it's at home. I'll look and try to post it later.

adamsreeftank
05-11-2006, 11:54 AM
Can someone point to the legal M4 Bushmaster upper, one's 14.5 (http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/uppers/post-ban/pura3b14m4iz.asp) with a welded izzy brake(is that a flash suppressor?) and the other has a 16" barrel (http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/uppers/post-ban/pura2b16m4.asp)...

What about the Fixed mini-y comp (http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/uppers/post-ban/pura3b14m4my.asp)?

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/uppers/post-ban/pura3b14m4iz.asp

You have to look at the "post ban" uppers page

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/uppers/post-ban/Default.asp

PIRATE14
05-11-2006, 1:34 PM
That's good to know... Thanks for the heads up

If the ATF is trying to unscrew your permament Device that makes it a legal 16" rifle.......you've already got a lot bigger problems somewhere else.

Bushmaster sells these buy the buckets.....

The mini-y comp is cool but a little louder than a A2/Phantom/Votex but it's not a flash suppressor...

DrjonesUSA
05-11-2006, 1:36 PM
If the ATF is trying to unscrew your permament Device that makes it a legal 16" rifle.......you've already got a lot bigger problems somewhere else.



Not necessarily.

The ATF is all about screwing honest, law-abiding citizens.

PIRATE14
05-11-2006, 1:41 PM
Not necessarily.

The ATF is all about screwing honest, law-abiding citizens.

That they do, but if they are toying with your guns you've already set them off to key in on you in some other way than your legally purchased Bushmaster M4 w/ perm IZZY Brake which meets ATF approval.

grammaton76
05-11-2006, 1:43 PM
One thing to consider is that if you buy the 14.5" and things go bad, then you're stuck with having to get a welded magwell or something. I've got a 14.5" Stag limited (no, it's not for sale) and I can't use it with my SRB.

If the whole magwell thing were to hold water, I may as well restore it to free-state configuration because it'll be just as much of a felony. You can't legalize it with an SRB, because there's an "evil feature" attached to it at all times.

...the camel spider is presently bored.

kantstudien
05-11-2006, 1:43 PM
The ATF is all about screwing honest, law-abiding citizens.

Ah come on, isn't that a excessively negative attitude? :confused: :p

Besides, that's the DOJ's job! ;)

adamsreeftank
05-11-2006, 2:26 PM
One thing to consider is that if you buy the 14.5" and things go bad, then you're stuck with having to get a welded magwell or something. I've got a 14.5" Stag limited (no, it's not for sale) and I can't use it with my SRB.

If the whole magwell thing were to hold water, I may as well restore it to free-state configuration because it'll be just as much of a felony. You can't legalize it with an SRB, because there's an "evil feature" attached to it at all times.


That's one reason I went with the "post ban" bushmaster upper. It uses a muzzle break, not a flash supressor, so it should be OK either way. The only difference other than the break is they grind the bayonet lug off.

If you want an M4 style upper but want a removeable Flash supressor, you need a 16" barrel, and you should probably get an upper with a mid-length gas system.

DrjonesUSA
05-11-2006, 2:56 PM
Ah come on, isn't that a excessively negative attitude? :confused: :p

Besides, that's the DOJ's job! ;)


Why don't you ask the few surviving Branch Davidians if they think that's an "excessively negative attitude".

I agree that is DOJs job as well, but that doesn't mean that ATF doesn't like to share in the fun.

Jicko
05-11-2006, 8:31 PM
One thing to consider is that if you buy the 14.5" and things go bad, then you're stuck with having to get a welded magwell or something. I've got a 14.5" Stag limited (no, it's not for sale) and I can't use it with my SRB.

If the whole magwell thing were to hold water, I may as well restore it to free-state configuration because it'll be just as much of a felony. You can't legalize it with an SRB, because there's an "evil feature" attached to it at all times.

...the camel spider is presently bored.

Bro, you can always weld perm ur mag. (welding the mag-rel-button to the mag catch is probably the best way to go)

harley66
05-11-2006, 8:44 PM
FWIW, I've read of cases in which the ATF tried to unscrew a welded on flash-suppressor.

When they couldn't unscrew it, they MILLED flats onto it (in order to get better purchase) and torqued the thing until the welds broke.

They then went on to prosecute the owner of the "illegally shortened barrel".

:rolleyes:

Urban legand ?

FinweElensar
05-12-2006, 12:42 AM
Were you talking about this kind of barrel/upper?

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b345/han_cholo/Water%20Tower/completear.jpg

Which upper/brand is that?

chris
05-12-2006, 3:51 AM
i have been on other forums that deal with the NFA rules that apply to the 14.5 barrel i have one right now but where i'm at i need it. but i will be welding a muzzle brake on it when i get home. i will have to find an gunsmith to do it. but i was told that welding a muzzle brake long enough to make it 16" or longer will make it legal and there are no problems to this. actually this the solution for us who have this upper.

FinweElensar
05-12-2006, 11:20 AM
How about this one? DT2000 (http://www.del-ton.com/detail.aspx?ID=1211)

SemiAutoSam
05-20-2006, 12:06 PM
Back in 1986 I was one of the individuals that Law enforcement messed with in I had a SGW CAR 15 style AR15 rifle well a group of friends were in a angeles national forest desigenated shooting area very near mendenhall saddle for those of you with topo maps and a green USFS ranger truck with red and blue lights was traveling along the same "Motor way" (USFS term) that we were park on and checking out our equipment, loading mags ect. Stopped beside us and asked whos weapons those were that were sitting on the tail gate of my truck.

the long and short of it was my rifle barrel had a long flash hider that was silver soldered to the barrel and it just so happened that when these things were made SGW made them with M16 (FULL AUTO MACHINE GUN) Parts.

so when they test fired it (with manipulation of the selector) somehow it would fire a round when the trigger was pulled and it fired another round when the trigger was released.

and they also milled flats into the flash hider and put enuf torque to the wrench until the bonds of the silver solder gave way.

I was charged with two felonies how ever with a excelent attorney I was only charged with a misteminor and all of my property was taken.

that was about $10,000.00 later in payment to the attorney and about 500-700 to a man that administered a polygraph test my attorney thought it would help as the officer made up things that wern't true and they wanted to see my story and to tell if I was lying or not.

so my thought on barrels under 16 inches is have them only if you have a tax stamp for a SBR and happen to live in a free state which california is not.

DrjonesUSA
05-21-2006, 12:56 PM
Damn, are you serious, Sam???