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mcsoupman
08-31-2010, 4:25 PM
Thanks in advance for your help!

I sent a gun off to the manufacturer out of state directly from me. They are re manufacturing the gun with the same serial number and want to send it back to me. So far so good right. :D

So I contact them and they claim it has to go to a FFL. :(

I call my local awesome dealer and they say, since I sent it and it is registered to me they don't have to process it. :D Plus if they get it, it will cost me money and DROS all over again. :eek:

I call the manufacturer back and they claim they are reading CA laws that it has to go to FFL. :confused:

So who is right? Can anyone inform me of where to turn and if it can go to me can I get a reference to give back to manufacturer?

Thanks again.

cineski
08-31-2010, 4:29 PM
If they're sending you back the same serial number it can go to your front door. Who's the manufacturer?

sigfan91
08-31-2010, 4:29 PM
The gun does not have to go through an FFL if it has the same serial number registered to you. If the serial number is changed, then it will need to go through an FFL for DROS. However, since it's a replacement, I don't believe you need to wait 10 days in that case.

I recently sent my Taurus in for repair. Taurus sent it back to my door via FedEx.

mcsoupman
08-31-2010, 4:38 PM
Yeah it is a Taurus. No problems at all with fixing the pistol, they just won't send it to me.

Sigfan any thing you can give me that I can tell my contact about at Taurus?

sigfan91
08-31-2010, 4:47 PM
Yeah it is a Taurus. No problems at all with fixing the pistol, they just won't send it to me.

Sigfan any thing you can give me that I can tell my contact about at Taurus?

Sorry, but I did not ask the lady's name when she contacted me.

What happened was I filled out 2 work orders online. The first listed my FFL's name. The second did not. She wanted me to put it in writing that I filled out the first work order by mistake and that it did not have to go through an FFL.

She seemed to know that it was OK to ship a repaired gun back to the owner in California as long as it had the same serial number.

bjl333
08-31-2010, 4:55 PM
We had a couple of S&W and a Taurus in for repair at a local gunshop. They send'em out to the Mgf. When they got the guns back from the manufacturer the shop just handed the guns to us.

paul0660
08-31-2010, 4:55 PM
http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/title27/27-2.0.1.2.3.9.1.7.html

A person not otherwise prohibited by Federal, State or local law may ship a firearm to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer for any lawful purpose, and, notwithstanding any other provision of this part, the licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer may return in interstate or foreign commerce to that person the firearm or a replacement firearm of the same kind and type.

ke6guj
08-31-2010, 6:13 PM
paul posted the federal allowance and here is the CA allowance:

12078(e) Section 12071, subdivisions (c) and (d) of Section 12072, and subdivision (b) of Section 12801 shall not apply to the delivery of a firearm to a gunsmith for service or repair, or to the return of the firearm to its owner by the gunsmith.

terry4130
08-31-2010, 7:44 PM
I would see if your local dealer can call the company and talk directly to them. Maybe, they could explain the situation a little better and maybe the company will take their comments more seriously?

cmichini
09-01-2010, 6:55 AM
"12078(e) Section 12071, subdivisions (c) and (d) of Section 12072, and subdivision (b) of Section 12801 shall not apply to the delivery of a firearm to a gunsmith for service or repair, or to the return of the firearm to its owner by the gunsmith. "

Could be that Taurus is interpreting the situation as : they are not returning THE firearm. Rather, they are returning ANOTHER firearm that happens to have had a duplicate serial number applied during the remanufacture process.

The other poster had THE SAME pistol repaired and returned, so that could be the sticking point with Taurus.

Can an FFL receive your pistol from mfgr. and, if it is DROS'd to you, can he just hand it over without fees, wait, etc?

Possibly other issues exist if you DROS a serial number to yourself when the same serial number for the same pistol is already registered to you?

Interesting dilemma either way and the outcome will surely be an education for many. Keep us up to date.

mcsoupman
09-01-2010, 9:44 AM
Thanks guys. I was encouraged to call the DOJ by my local FFL. Well according the DOJ, the manufacturer can choose to send the gun to the FFL if it is 30 days past the most recent DROS. I was like, "what?" :eek: I guess unless I can convince them to send it to me directly I don't have a choice.

SixtyDashOne
09-01-2010, 9:56 AM
That is odd, not sure why they would be telling you that. I had to send my PT-145 to Taurus TWICE for warranty repair and both times they sent it back to me, it was delivered directly to my house.

paul0660
09-01-2010, 9:59 AM
the manufacturer can choose to send the gun to the FFL

That is the outcome of the average call to the DOJ. More confusion.

The language of the California law might be the sticking point, but it IS the same gun.......it has the same serial number.

mcsoupman
09-03-2010, 2:21 PM
AAAAAWWWWWW! Ok, so it turns out that they are sending me a brand new gun. Everything sounds great, but now I am going to have to DROS the thing for another $75. I only paid $300 for it in the first place. Man this state.

Does this mean I have to go to the handgun wait support thread now . . .? Is it still 10 days?

ke6guj
09-03-2010, 2:37 PM
brand new gun with the original serial number? or a new gun with a new serial number?

If the former, they should be able to send it back directly to you. If the latter, then it does need to come back through an FFL to be DROSed to you. Yes, there is a 10-day wait for it AFAIK. Perhaps the FFL would be willing to do the DROS for less than the $75 in fees that it normally costs, since it is a warranty return, wouldn't hurt to ask.

mcsoupman
09-03-2010, 2:39 PM
New gun, new serial number. Yeah, I tried asking every shop in town and $75 is cheaper by up to $75 of everyone else.

Droc101
09-03-2010, 2:42 PM
brand new gun with the original serial number? or a new gun with a new serial number?

If the former, they should be able to send it back directly to you. If the latter, then it does need to come back through an FFL to be DROSed to you. Yes, there is a 10-day wait for it AFAIK. Perhaps the FFL would be willing to do the DROS for less than the $75 in fees that it normally costs, since it is a warranty return, wouldn't hurt to ask.

Also dont forget that you have to have your HSC as well (they are good for 5 years though so hopefully you still have it) :chris:

New gun, new serial number. Yeah, I tried asking every shop in town and $75 is cheaper by up to $75 of everyone else
My dad charges a total of 75 as well (25 dros 50 handling) we are the cheapest in the county. If you were closer to santa cruz or wanted to make the drive let me know and I can get him to work with you. I dont know how much the gas would be though

ke6guj
09-03-2010, 2:51 PM
New gun, new serial number. Yeah, I tried asking every shop in town and $75 is cheaper by up to $75 of everyone else.that sucks. Perhaps the NRA or CRPA can get the law amended to allow a replacement firearm to be returned directly to the owner, similar to how federal law is. If CADOJ wants the new serial number on file, then require the owner file a "replacement handgun" form and send in $19 like we do for other "non-DROSed" handgun acquistions.




Also dont forget that you have to have your HSC as well (they are good for 5 years though so hopefully you still have it) :chris:


yup, need to have a current HSC and deal with the handgun safety lock requirements as well. And if the firearm is not on the Roster, then additional issues come up as well. Perhaps a situation like that when a person sends in a non-rostered handgun for repair and the manufacturer replaces it with a new handgun, but the owner can't get it back due to roster issues would be a good inclusion into the Peņa case.

I'd also suggest you file a NLIP form with CADOJ to inform them that you no longer own the original firearm, and that it was returned to the manufacturer

Droc101
09-03-2010, 3:12 PM
that sucks. Perhaps the NRA or CRPA can get the law amended to allow a replacement firearm to be returned directly to the owner, similar to how federal law is. If CADOJ wants the new serial number on file, then require the owner file a "replacement handgun" form and send in $19 like we do for other "non-DROSed" handgun acquistions.







yup, need to have a current HSC and deal with the handgun safety lock requirements as well. And if the firearm is not on the Roster, then additional issues come up as well. Perhaps a situation like that when a person sends in a non-rostered handgun for repair and the manufacturer replaces it with a new handgun, but the owner can't get it back due to roster issues would be a good inclusion into the Peņa case.

I'd also suggest you file a NLIP form with CADOJ to inform them that you no longer own the original firearm, and that it was returned to the manufacturer

Not at all.
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/The_Safe_Handgun_List#Other_exempt_transactions_an d_conditions

No long guns are affected.
Handguns moved into the state by new residents are not affected by the Roster.
Transfers between immediate family members using the Operation of Law or Intrafamilial Handgun Transaction Report are not affected by the Roster. This procedure was established in 1994 with AB 2470.
Pawning and redeeming from pawn are not subject to the Roster. (Penal Code 12132(f))
Giving a handgun to a gunsmith for repair, and receiving that handgun back are exempt. (Penal Code 12132(d) and (e))
General government transactions are exempt (Penal Code 12125(b)(4):

ke6guj
09-03-2010, 3:17 PM
but in this case, he isn't receiving "that handgun" back from the gunsmith, but is receiving a different handgun.

Droc101
09-03-2010, 3:28 PM
Couldn't 'That handgun' be translated into the same model handgun?

ke6guj
09-03-2010, 3:31 PM
if that was the case, then it wouldn't even need to be sent back to an FFL to DROS to him. THe manufacturer would be allowed to send a replacement handgun directly back to the owner, whether if be on, or off, roster. It might be allowable, but AFAIK, nobody is reading the law to allow that.

dfletcher
09-03-2010, 4:21 PM
Not to pick too fine a point but with respect to CA and federal law is Taurus a "gunsmith"? I realize they are repairing the gun but could there be a distinction between manufacturer and gunsmith - I know each carries a different FFL.

BTW, when I sent my T/C Encore (frame only) to T/C for repair they declined to send it back to me directly citing CA law - I asked them which one and got an "I don't know" response. Either they changed their mind or made a mistake because they did send it directly back to me.

ke6guj
09-03-2010, 4:35 PM
true, an 07FFL might not fall under the definition of "gunsmith"

12001(r) As used in this title, "gunsmith" means any person who is licensed as a dealer pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, who is engaged primarily in the business of repairing firearms, or making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms, or the agent or employee of that person.

If CADOJ is taking the position that the manufacturer is not a gunsmith (I dunno if that is the case), and that there is no exemption to sned a firearm back to the manufacturer for repair/replacement, then I would suggest that the law should be amended to accomodate that.

deadlyapp
09-03-2010, 6:06 PM
I'm sure the FFL will still force it upon you, but I was under the assumption if you get a gun back from warranty repair - Even with a new serial number - You don't have the wait the ten day cooling period. I haven't personally looked into it though. Like mentioned above I'd try talking to your original FFL to see if they will cut you a break. A $50 handling fee is freakin ridiculous.

mcsoupman
09-05-2010, 7:46 AM
A $50 handling fee is freakin ridiculous.

Agreed!

Droc101
09-05-2010, 9:17 AM
A $50 handling fee is freakin ridiculous.

Are you talking about in general or just in this case? If you are talking about in general, then I fail to see your reasoning behind that statement. You buy a gun from a third party (say buds gun shop) then ship it to your LGS and expect them to take their time to process the paperwork for you, then take up their safe space for your gun (which did not originate in their shop) for 10 or more days, then take more time from their day (time that could be spent selling products that will keep their doors open so you can continue to send your money elsewhere) to do the release paperwork for you, for free? Considering that no one else in this county does transfers for less than 100 (which I do feel is way more than it should be) I feel that $50 is more than fair for processing a sale that the shop could have done in house.
If you are talking about in this case then I completely agree with you and in this case I would offer to do it for only the DROS fee (and HSC if he needs it), since this costs money to the shop every time we hit submit.