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tefunk
05-11-2006, 6:28 AM
Are there any issues with purchasing one of those custom 1911 that are talked about on 1911forums and louderthanwords.us? They use a CA legal base gun and then upgrade a lot of the parts and add some other cosmetic touches.

Also what do you think about buying a custom 1911 that uses a Sprinfield GI .45 frame with a Springfield Mil-Spec slide. Both are CA legal. Is it even ok to take an existing CA legal handgun and replace the slide with something else?

Thanks.

linuxgunner
05-11-2006, 12:05 PM
Once the gun is legal in CA, you can do anything you want to it, so long as you don't make it into an "assault weapon", which is rarely an issue for pistols. You also have to obey the 10-rnd mag limit and of course federal law. None of that is relevant to the mods most people want to do to their 1911s.

So yes, you can buy a Springfield 1911, throw away every part but the frame, and put together a brand-new 1911 in whatever configuration and design you want.

Slides are not regulated parts.

I think there is a market for someone here to buy raw Caspian frames, do just the bare minimum of work to get them to "run" (even as single-shots), get them safety approved, and sell them.

I would set them up with specially-cut slides sot he Caspian frame wouldn't even need to be cut. It's single-shot so it doesn't need to cycle. The customer would buy it and then mail all the parts (other than the frame) back.

I know that would sell here.

tefunk
05-11-2006, 3:01 PM
I would rather buy a firearm that has been customized so I can avoid the trouble of buying it separately and then having to ship it out for the work to be done. Would that be ok? The stock parts that would be changed would be like the thumb safety, grip safety, trigger, ejector, barrel etc... And how about buying the 1911 that already has a GI .45 frame paired with a Mil-Spec slide?

Black_Talon
05-11-2006, 3:43 PM
I would rather buy a firearm that has been customized so I can avoid the trouble of buying it separately and then having to ship it out for the work to be done. Would that be ok?

I've heard it go both ways, but I've personally bought and "imported" about 4-5 full-on custom 1911's since the silly DOJ list went into effect. All of the FFL's have DROSed them as the model of the base gun that they were build on, without even batting an eyebrow.

linuxgunner
05-11-2006, 6:40 PM
Right, you can get anything on the DoJ list. You can take that gun and throw away every part except them frame. You can put on any parts you like. That gun is forever a "listed" gun and it will always transfer as what it originally was called, no matter if the only original part is the frame.

So go ahead and buy your Sprintfield GI, throw away everything but the frame, rebuild it with whatever you want, it's CA legal and transferable.

(Note that I'm excluding crazy parts like an autosear, or some crazy thing that would put the mag outside the grip, etc. No one puts that stuff on 1911s.)

AS45-70
05-11-2006, 6:41 PM
I participated in a few raffles over at LTW. You need to be careful though, some of the guns they raffle are not on CA legal.

As for the Mil spec i have a full custom from YoBo that i got last year. I wanted a Caspian frame for the base of my custom but living here in CA its damn near impossible to get one. So my options were to buy a Mil spec, GI or a colt. The Colt was my ideal option but i didnt want to wait to find a used one. I eneded up with a milspec, i stripped it and shipped the bare frame to YoBo to reserve my spot. It took about 7 months to get my gun done. Partly due to the Damascus slie i was using, it had a 4 month wait alone.

If i was to do it again i would wait for a colt to use as a base gun. The problem i ran into was $, first i had to spend money on a Mil Spec so that added to the cost of my build. Very expensive gun in the end but im very happy with it.

You need to buy a CA legal 1911 or a used 1911 from a PPT, then ship it to the gunsmith of your choice, any LTW smith is a good choice.

tefunk
05-11-2006, 7:23 PM
I am posting again to make sure I have this right. I don't want to buy the stock gun and then ship it to get it customized. I want to buy the new gun already customized. Yost-Bonitz offers their custom packages with the option of having them supply the 1911. Are you guys saying the only way to customize it is to buy the stock first and then ship it off or is buying one already customized ok?

I have only one handgun which I purchased out of state. It's a XD-9 that came with a trigger job, different finish, and night sights. So it wasn't exactly stock. I think Black Teflon has it right. It depends on the FFL dealer and how he processes the sale. If all the paperwork from the gunsmith shows me buying a firearm that is CA legal than it should go through. I'm planning to get a more modified 1911 than my XD-9 so I hope that any checkering/serrations/cosmetic touches doesn't raise any eyebrows. If I can tell the gunsmith to seal the invoice then the FFL won't know what mods I did.

I did think about getting a Colt but I was told by Yo-Bo that a Colt Series 70 will be $600 more than a Springfield. That's a bit too steep for me since I will be spending a considerable amount on mods. YO-BO currently has a 4 month wait time on their basic 1* package which isn't too bad. I just emailed Yost-Bonitz my question so hopefully I will have the answer soon. Thanks for your help.

AS45-70
05-11-2006, 8:29 PM
from the YoBo site:

The 1* package is available on the Colt 1991A1 and 2nd Generation 70 series pistols, in either blue or stainless steel, and the Springfield Armory mil-spec pistols in blue only. Springfield-Armory stainless pistols can be used as well, but the price may be slightly higher due to additional parts requirements. Please inquire.

You are all set to go, no worries about it not being legal. The SA Mil Spec pistol is CA approved and yes YoBo can also supply the gun for $1295.00 along with your *1 package.

Completely legal even if you cange some parts or all and just use the frame.

As for the Colt you can see why i also didnt get it, more $. Mine was the *1 Elite with all new parts and a damascus slide, all told it ran me $3400.

linuxgunner
05-12-2006, 2:00 PM
Once the frame is legal in CA, it is always legal in CA, unless it's a C&R.

So if the gun started out as a CA legal model, and everything on it is changed, it's always CA legal. And as I said, "Once the frame is legal in CA, it's always legal in CA." That means that someone moving from another state to CA could buy a Caspian frame (not legal for CA residents) and bring it in to the state, and then it is legal and can be sold and re-sold in CA without problems (complying with all transfer laws of course).

Anyone who is moving here should buy a Caspian frame or two, a Delta 10mm, a Seecamp 380, etc before moving.

AS45-70
05-12-2006, 2:27 PM
Anyone who is moving here should buy a Caspian frame or two, a Delta 10mm, a Seecamp 380, etc before moving.

Amen to that

CACitUP
05-12-2006, 3:36 PM
Right, you can get anything on the DoJ list. You can take that gun and throw away every part except them frame. You can put on any parts you like. That gun is forever a "listed" gun and it will always transfer as what it originally was called, no matter if the only original part is the frame.

So go ahead and buy your Sprintfield GI, throw away everything but the frame, rebuild it with whatever you want, it's CA legal and transferable.

(Note that I'm excluding crazy parts like an autosear, or some crazy thing that would put the mag outside the grip, etc. No one puts that stuff on 1911s.)

Actually this thread is really timely for me. What if you want to buy a frame from out of state. The frame in question is from a CA DOJ listed gun. Can you import the frame only? Or do you have to purchase the entire firearm in a functional state? Say you could purchase a High Standard HS 1911 A-1 frame, is that a violation of the law? Or a Wilson Combat? Or a Les Baer?

AS45-70
05-12-2006, 4:01 PM
I would say yes you can buy it providing it is on the DOJ list.

If the gun is on the DOJ list, even though its just a frame now and is out of state, it is legal to own IMO.

Lets hope so so or we really are screwed in CA.

esskay
05-12-2006, 4:44 PM
Here is my understanding/interpretation of the issue: To do a dealer sale or an non-PPT transfer of a handgun, it must be the exact model on the approved list. So my understanding is that you are supposed to purchase the base gun, then ship it back out to your gunsmith to be customized. If you happen to have an FFL who is not as observant as he could be... well it seems that various people have had this experience. As for me, my FFL of choice knows his guns pretty well and I am very conservative legally, so personally I wouldn't buy a fully custom gun out-of-state.

A PPT of course does not have these silly restrictions.

CalNRA
05-12-2006, 4:50 PM
I think there is a market for someone here to buy raw Caspian frames, do just the bare minimum of work to get them to "run" (even as single-shots), get them safety approved, and sell them.

I would set them up with specially-cut slides sot he Caspian frame wouldn't even need to be cut. It's single-shot so it doesn't need to cycle. The customer would buy it and then mail all the parts (other than the frame) back.


I know that would sell here.


THen he better do it quick since after jan 1st 2007 the 1911 will neeed a mag disconnect to be registered and drop-tested. for now we can just cut a notch on the barrel to call it a chamber indicator like SA does with their Mil Specs.

That being said I am all for it. I don't want to pay 500 bucks for a gun that I only want the frame for....

tefunk
05-12-2006, 6:16 PM
That would be great if I would be able to just buy the frame itself and then get it worked on. Just wonder where to buy just a CA legal frame.

Here's the reply I got from Yost-Bonitz:

"There is no problem with us working on and returning a gun that you send in yourself and as such that is the easiest way to get a 1* pistol into California. Buy the base gun in state and them send it to us for the conversion.

That said, there is technically no problem with you purchasing a 1* from us on a base gun that we supply and us shipping it to California but you may have problems finding a dealer that will accept the gun as many of them consider them no longer "on the list" since they have been converted by a custom shop.

I hope this helps and please let me know if you have any other questions, thanks!"

s281c
05-12-2006, 6:23 PM
I would say yes you can buy it providing it is on the DOJ list.

If the gun is on the DOJ list, even though its just a frame now and is out of state, it is legal to own IMO.

Lets hope so so or we really are screwed in CA.

You're forgetting about the safe handling demonstration, can't do it on a frame only.

AS45-70
05-12-2006, 6:41 PM
You're forgetting about the safe handling demonstration, can't do it on a frame only.


what could be safer than a stripped frame :)

I would agree with YoBos response, your best option is to buy a base gun in CA and ship it to them.

If your buying a new gun as the base gan and using the frame only, like i did, sell the barrel, slide, hammer, trigger, ect... While i didnt make a ton of money i did recover some funds.

linuxgunner
05-12-2006, 7:03 PM
THen he better do it quick since after jan 1st 2007 the 1911 will neeed a mag disconnect to be registered and drop-tested.

That is so stupid. Mag disconnects make guns less safe. From what I understand, anything currently on the list will be grandfathered as long as they keep paying their annual fee, right? Otherwise a whole lot of popular guns (Glocks, 1911s) would no longer be available.

Any handgun I own is a life safety device and I rely on it firing every time I pull the trigger, whether there is a mag in there or not. If I need to fire during a mag change, then I need to fire!

Btw, if this actually happens: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=199833 I think that would really be a good thing for California gun owners. I think that type of bill is a long shot, but there is some hope.