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DsF_Saint
05-10-2006, 11:51 PM
The DOJ has issued a memo which they believe, will limit the need for them to update the list. This allows for the continuous sales of off-list lowers in the state. By a public safety standpoint, and legal standpoint, this is completely unacceptable. This entire law and this entire issue affects only the law abiding citizens.

Off-list lowers *are* being made into illegal assault weapons by criminal street gang members. By allowing the sales of the lowers in California to continue, The DOJ is allowing easy access to these weapons by these gangs. In my particular area, there has been at least one shooting already by a .223 caliber rifle. I would be willing to bet (if gambling wasn't illegal too :)), it is an off-list, since sales in this area are through the roof.

Now do not get me wrong, I do not agree with the assault weapon laws, since they only prevent law abiding citizens from owning these weapons. However, it is the law, and the DOJ is selectively enforcing it, to save face. Listing these weapons would be the only responsible thing to do, that would make the law work like it is supposed to. Fortunately for us we have had the opportunity to take advantage of their slow actions. You guys brought up this topic to the DOJ last year. Had they acted quickly enough, this would not have been large enough to cause them the grief it most definitely will. There is no doubt these weapons will be listed. Please just be patient and do not get yourself into trouble.

I know I am preaching to the choir, so thanks for your time.

NeoWeird
05-11-2006, 12:13 AM
There is only one flaw to your logic:

It's illegal to be gang member, and it's illegal to own an unregistered assault weapon; so it would be impossible for either to exist in California, let alone together at the same time.

The DOJ has its act covered:rolleyes:

pc_city
05-11-2006, 7:40 AM
The DOJ has issued a memo which they believe, will limit the need for them to update the list. This allows for the continuous sales of off-list lowers in the state. By a public safety standpoint, and legal standpoint, this is completely unacceptable. This entire law and this entire issue affects only the law abiding citizens.

Legislative intent was:
1) Register AWs in the state to keep track of who has what.
2) Prevent more AWs from entering the state.

If DOJ does not list they will not be able to do either.

Satex
05-11-2006, 8:27 AM
You are suggesting you have solid information that criminals are purchasing off-list lowers and turning them into assault weapons. Criminals are amongst the group of people prohibited from purchasing firearms all together. Turning the off-list lowers into assault weapons is another crime. I suggest you contact your local law enforcement ASAP to disclose the information you have. It's in our best interest to get criminals off the street!


Off-list lowers *are* being made into illegal assault weapons by criminal street gang members. By allowing the sales of the lowers in California to continue, The DOJ is allowing easy access to these weapons by these gangs.

superhondaz50
05-11-2006, 8:40 AM
heres my theory on gang members using off listers to comit crimes. they wont.
1.gang members are to poor to afford $800+ on a rifle
2. most gang members cant even buy guns
3. most gang members (from gun crimes Ive seen) use cheap stolen guns, or hand me down guns like the hi-point or the jennings.
4.most gang members are to dang stupid to know how to even put together an AR or AK, thats why theyre in a gang.......because they are very stupid! :D

Satex
05-11-2006, 9:07 AM
Also, I thought that gang members don't use a firearm unless the sights are perpendicular to normal ones so they can shoot in the "horizontal" configuration.
Hey, I got an idea, how about we propose to abolish the AW ban and instead outlaw shooting any firearms horizontally! I think that would eliminate 99.99% of gang violence! ;)

klmmicro
05-11-2006, 9:25 AM
Also, I thought that gang members don't use a firearm unless the sights are perpendicular to normal ones so they can shoot in the "horizontal" configuration.
Hey, I got an idea, how about we propose to abolish the AW ban and instead outlaw shooting any firearms horizontally! I think that would eliminate 99.99% of gang violence! ;)

HELLOOOOO...4 rail front grip allows sights to be mounted sideways on both the left and the right side. That means that these are the weapons of choice for gang members now.

:eek: :D

DrjonesUSA
05-11-2006, 9:35 AM
Off-list lowers *are* being made into illegal assault weapons by criminal street gang members. By allowing the sales of the lowers in California to continue, The DOJ is allowing easy access to these weapons by these gangs. In my particular area, there has been at least one shooting already by a .223 caliber rifle. I would be willing to bet (if gambling wasn't illegal too :)), it is an off-list, since sales in this area are through the roof.


You are trying to tell me, with a straight face, I presume, that:

Someone with intentions to use a gun in a crime:

a) Learned of the off-list lower issue

b) Found a legal distributor to buy an off-list lower from

c) Found an FFL to recieve his off-list lower

d) Paid in full for his OLL (off-list lower)

e) Went to his FFL, filled out all the appropriate paperwork, passed the background check, waited 10 days, jumped through all the hoops

f) Purchased an upper assembly, LPK, and other necessary components to build a .223 rifle

g) Learned how to assemble all the parts into a functioning rifle

h) After following ALL THE STEPS ABOVE, you want me to believe that said idiot purposefully used this brand new, approximately $700.00, LEGALLY PURCHASED WEAPON in a crime?????????????


Dude, contact me STAT.

I've got a bridge for sale AND some Nebraska beach front property! CHEAP!!!! Honest!


I seriously hope you aren't contacting the DOJ with any of this garbage.

While I'm at it, thanks for:


a) Perpetuating the myth that the mere availability of weapons contributes to crime.

b) Perpetuating the myth that "assault weapons" are the "weapons of choice for criminals"

c) Lobbying for more gun control/gun registration by requesting that the DOJ list AR lowers.


I'd buy you a beer if I could. :rolleyes:

DrjonesUSA
05-11-2006, 9:38 AM
Off-list lowers *are* being made into illegal assault weapons by criminal street gang members.



Further, if you have reliable, verifiable information that criminals are obtaining weapons, why the hell aren't you telling the authorities about it???????

zenthemighty
05-11-2006, 10:06 AM
Actually the biggest flaw in his logic is that he believes the DoJ is concerned about the public good. Like all political apparatuses they're only concerned in forwarding their agenda... Public be damned.

DrjonesUSA
05-11-2006, 10:07 AM
Actually the biggest flaw in his logic is that he believes the DoJ is concerned about the public good. Like all political apparatuses they're only concerned in forwarding their agenda... Public be damned.


That too.

Heck, it would be more in line with the DOJs interests to hand out full-auto M4s to street gangs free of charge.

klmmicro
05-11-2006, 10:12 AM
That too.

Heck, it would be more in line with the DOJs interests to hand out full-auto M4s to street gangs free of charge.

That would certainly give the DOJ the bully pulpit. It is interesting, but right before the 1994 crime bill sunsetted there were groups that were hoping something bad would "happen". They needed an incident to cite or their agenda was going to be derailed.

It sort of feels like the DOJ is in the same boat right now. The longer they do nothing and everything keeps going on without incident, the less tenable their position becomes.

DsF_Saint
05-11-2006, 10:26 AM
Maybe you are forgetting a couple of things:

Due to a little thing called the Constitution of the United States, just because the way a person looks doesn't make it legal for a peace officer to stop and arrest them for possessing a weapon.

Since this is the State of California, the liberal courts are more likely to frown upon consensual contacts for these purposes. I hope you don't think BWIESE (no disrespect intended) is the only one against consensual contacts, or the only one smart enough to invoke his rights, some of them will tell us to pound sand, all day long (and that's their right).

Not all gang members have got into enough trouble to prevent them from passing the background checks to get firearms.

To state that gang members are not smart enough to build a weapon is just ignorant. Besides some gun shops are selling complete lowers and offering complete uppers, wouldn't take a rocket scientest to figure that one out.

To state they have no money? They have our money (Identity theft, welfare fraud, other financial crimes) . Cadillac Escalades, Mercedes Benz and other luxury cars are often seen being driven by gang members, in our areas. You think they can't get enough money to buy a gun?

I have monitored local gun stores and seen many questionable sales, and have also monitored local gun ranges and have seen many instances where off-lists were being shot. In the San Gabriel Valley, they have the weapons.

Illegal for gang members to possess? Yes... Do they care? Not one bit