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View Full Version : New Nor-Cal lower company


TonyKat
05-09-2006, 1:53 AM
It wouldn't cost much to sart up. I've been looking for a business idea and i think this could be it. I live in Cali and if i was making lowers and selling them i could make a killing. Hook up with 5 or 6 FFL Dealers up and down Cali. I'd have to go through all the paperwork/fees and legal mumbo-jumbo but it's doable. I wouldn't be able to get them produced by this upcomming 2nd round listing by doj but i think i could get it going by 3rd round. As a plus, seeing how doj reacts to this "problem" of off list lowers in Cali, i could judge how future sales would go before i jump in head over heals. What do you think?

EDIT: Just for the hell of it i was playing with a logo
http://caseyshots.com/archive/NorCal_Arms.jpg

rorschach
05-09-2006, 2:45 AM
Sounds like a great idea.

How about calling it "Lockyer Assault Systems" or "Feinstein Evil Weaponry" or something along those lines??

Your logo could be a caricature of Lockyers big stupid head. Or a California bear wearing a sombrero guzzling a bottle of tequila.

"Proudly manufactured behind enemy lines, in occupied Kalifornia"

All jokes aside, I think it would be a great thing, and I wondered, with all the machine shops here in SoCal that used to do aerospace work, why nobody has jumped on this. If they get listed, big deal, roll another batch with a new model number. "1st list, 2nd list,3rd list," editions and so on.

Tony, I'd buy a few from ya just to support California business.

TonyKat
05-09-2006, 2:48 AM
Yeah i was thinking about model numbers.. just for kicks i would have a "model AlwaysReady14+1"

Price wise i think it would be cool to sell them for $200 flat including tax, so i could sell them "tax-free" just to stick it to the man a little bit more :-)

EBWhite
05-09-2006, 3:37 AM
No, you always charge tax, just say tax included....now if you pay it , thats your business. HA

Dude, i would buy one if we could get a cool one making fun of liberals ;-)

PanzerAce
05-09-2006, 7:20 AM
Sounds like a great idea. The only problem I forsee is that the logo needs less clutter to look good on the side of an AR. oh, and make sure you also sell .308 versions....

MC Sweatshop
05-09-2006, 7:23 AM
Why not just use the 'NorCal' star for the logo? :confused:

TonyKat
05-09-2006, 7:46 AM
I think that the Nor-Cal logo is a trademark :rolleyes:
http://rs.skatewarehouse.com/sw/cat/headers/2006headers/ban_NORCAL.gif

JWC6
05-09-2006, 7:48 AM
I just spewed coffee over the keyboard.:)

Talk about bringing the AR full circle. Wasn't it initially developed by Fairchild in North Hollywood?

Sounds like a great idea.

How about calling it "Lockyer Assault Systems" or "Feinstein Evil Weaponry" or something along those lines??

Your logo could be a caricature of Lockyers big stupid head. Or a California bear wearing a sombrero guzzling a bottle of tequila.

"Proudly manufactured behind enemy lines, in occupied Kalifornia"

All jokes aside, I think it would be a great thing, and I wondered, with all the machine shops here in SoCal that used to do aerospace work, why nobody has jumped on this. If they get listed, big deal, roll another batch with a new model number. "1st list, 2nd list,3rd list," editions and so on.

Tony, I'd buy a few from ya just to support California business.

superhondaz50
05-09-2006, 8:36 AM
I would buy one! What you should do is everytime they list come out with a new model. You can have the Lockyer, the feinstein, the iggy, fudoj, and many more!
I was thinking about this same idea, starting a company when I moive to Nevada, and sell mostly to CA.

leelaw
05-09-2006, 8:39 AM
Make some 1911 frames and get them approved for sale in CA. :D

bwiese
05-09-2006, 9:42 AM
Make some 1911 frames and get them approved for sale in CA. :D

Frames can't be approved, only complete tested handguns.

bwiese
05-09-2006, 9:45 AM
The lower biz is small potatoes. The stuff we are doing won't last long.

You're also at the mercy of having your manufacturer permit being near-revoked since those are issued on discretionary basis.

Instead I'd recommend we get Tom Sawyer Mfg to do a run of commemorative "Lockyer-Merrilees" lowers available for general sale inside/outside CA. (We want to maintain Harrott protections which conceivably might not apply to single-order custom models.)

Guns R Tools
05-09-2006, 10:04 AM
Would it be legal to manufacture 1911 type gun with single shot top and sell it in CA. Like this tread.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=32592

Of course pin the mag in place. Or maybe use different weight insert to increase mass to help in recoil.

Then could someone who bought the single shot simply swith the top and replace weight with mag and in compliance with CA DOJ requiements.

Just some random thoughts.

bootcamp
05-09-2006, 10:43 AM
Bad idea. This "thing of ours" is a temporary thing. Thumbs down. Somebody has to say it.

FreedomIsNotFree
05-09-2006, 11:06 AM
Bad idea. This "thing of ours" is a temporary thing. Thumbs down. Somebody has to say it.

Last time I checked nobody here was in Cosa Nostra....haha...

shooterx10
05-09-2006, 11:26 AM
Make some 1911 frames and get them approved for sale in CA. :D

Sell some STI/SVI/2011 cloned complete guns and put a heavy trigger on there so it can pass the drop test (along with the other battery of tests). Once it passes, sell to the buyers a trigger package (sear, hammer, firing pin spring, etc.) that will make the trigger go at 20 ounces! :D

http://www.stiguns.com/guns/GrandMaster/images/GrandMasterRedMain06_800w.jpg

gh429
05-09-2006, 2:39 PM
Hehe interesting topic,

What would be the tooling cost of a cold (or hot?) forged receiver here in the states? Would it be legal to have all the forging work done overseas and then final machining here in the states?

I'm seeing some receivers for $99 these days, considering brand equity issues, I would imagine even with all the manufacturing done in Asia you'd be hard pressed to turn a profit (assuming it is legal to import).

If you went the billet route, fixed cost would be a lot lower (in Asia) but you'd still have to import them.

I'd figure it would be more profitable to setup a tooling in Asia, and just ignore the California market entirely and supply global demand.

This is of course based on my 0 years of experience in the firearms / weapons industry. Hehe

bwiese
05-09-2006, 2:47 PM
Hehe interesting topic,

What would be the tooling cost of a cold (or hot?) forged receiver here in the tates? Would it be legal to have all the forging work done overseas and then final machining here in the states?

Forging could be done overseas w/prelim tooling there. But only a certain amount before imported frames would likely require excessive weapons import paperwork.
You'd also need to do biz in a country where this prearmament status would not cause trouble - they might have different definitions of what is/isn't a weapon.

Also, the resale in US of foreign gun parts would add 922(r) domestic parts count compliance issues. HK is already experiencing this with their HK 416: even when legally configured (16+" barrel length, semiauto etc) this gun can't be sold to civvies since it's not a "sporting arm" - unless you start playing the "10 or less" parts game the FAL clone builders use.

Raw material & labor isn't that high a cost for a receiver. Licensing, compliance, insurance and usu biz costs are what comprise much of the price. For example, I once heard that a Ruger P89 pistol has around $70ish of insurance costs associated with it - spread between Ruger, the distributor and dealer. That's somewhere around 1/4 of its FFL dealer price.

Given that much intricate work still has to be done in US by Type 7 licensee or under his direct supervision, the cost savings are prob $10-$15 max.

And nobody makes lowers to make money anyway. These are just a vehicle to get to complete rifle sales - and to not appear as a 'parts assembler'. That's why you're seeing 'boutique' AR houses with unique, quality specialty rifles coming with their own lowers: Denny's Guns/Global Tactical, Bravo Company, Ameetec, etc. These guys aren't run of the mill bottom feeders like ASA or Model 1 or Sherluk, and they want brand identity even though their great rifles would be equally great on any brand of lower.

I'm seeing some receivers for $99 these days, considering brand equity issues, I would imagine even with all the manufacturing done in Asia you'd be hard pressed to turn a profit (assuming it is legal to import).

Yes, imported or exported I don't think a co selling AR lowers could survive.
All the liability, all the paperwork, and none of the (thin) profits of the gun biz.

If you went the billet route, fixed cost would be a lot lower (in Asia) but you'd still have to import them.

Little market for billet lowers except in desparation situations (CA in December/early January), or for special apps (JP Rifles). Everyone wants forged milspec stuff. Foreign biz would be the same, esp as there are no "consumers" like us.

I'd figure it would be more profitable to setup a tooling in Asia, and just ignore the California market entirely and supply global demand.

Again, lowers ain't the thing. Gun biz is shipment of whole weapons in bulk. And usu by trusted names in longer-term vending relationships, with service & support packages. There's really no onesy-twosey biz like there is in USA anywhere else in the world.

TonyKat
05-10-2006, 1:28 PM
I wouldn't be doing this to get rich, i just think a california born and bread ar-15 lower would be nice. "building the evil device under their noses"

As for 1911's i was thinking of producing a crappy gun on a quality frame. for example a forged 1911 frame with plastic slide and all cheep plastic parts and just enough metal to make the gun fire and pass the test. by having the crappy parts it would only add $50 to the frame. at that point a buyer would just strip off the crap and build their gun from just the frame.