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View Full Version : Legal to sell high capacity magazines out of the state?


hoffmang
05-08-2006, 8:57 PM
These may seem obscure and irrational, but its important to some issues I've been thinking about.

If I had a high capacity magazine that was legally acquired before 2000 for a pistol, can I go on gunbroker.com and auction it off to a non California resident?

The law says:
PC 12020 (a) (2) "Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine."

Is listing this on gunbroker.com "offers or exposes for sale" or does "offers or exposes for sale" imply the words "in California?"

If no one knows for sure, I'm going to draft a clarification letter for Cal DOJ.

I do know that I could travel out of California with it and likely sell it then. See:
PC 12020 (b) (23) The importation of a large-capacity magazine by a person who lawfully possessed the large-capacity magazine in the state prior to January 1, 2000, lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning to the state with the large-capacity magazine previously lawfully possessed in the state.

The FAQ answer (http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.htm#5) on DOJ's site isn't very informative either...

kantstudien
05-08-2006, 10:12 PM
Yes, you can sell it to someone out of state.

Rumpled
05-08-2006, 11:19 PM
I think the offers for sale thing might get you.
I've spoken to a CA AW dealer who has been contacted with printouts of his gunbroker ads for highcaps and AW's and his CA location.
He says each time he's also shown them on the same printout his "No Sales to CA" in his pitch for said items. Issue cleared up for him.
As a mere mortal, we don't have those permits to help us out.

Probably just best to go out of state and sell them.

EBWhite
05-08-2006, 11:23 PM
You can sell them out of state- no one has the business to tell you that you cannot do that.

However, you may break the magazine down for parts and sell it to a CA resident- You must tell them its only for parts and cannot be made into a magazine. You might try listing them here, im sure people would be interested in the parts only.

hoffmang
05-08-2006, 11:28 PM
As perverse as this sounds, I just need to get strong clarification that I or an FFL could sell high capacity magazines out of state as a resident of California.

I'm well aware of the parts issue and am not trying to affect a transaction in the near term.

Sounds like I need a letter from DOJ.

blacklisted
05-08-2006, 11:32 PM
As perverse as this sounds, I just need to get strong clarification that I or an FFL could sell high capacity magazines out of state as a resident of California.

I'm well aware of the parts issue and am not trying to affect a transaction in the near term.

Sounds like I need a letter from DOJ.

Don't bother...they've already sent out letters on this. It's not necessary anyway, if you read the law it does not say you can't sell them out of state.

Think of it this way, they can't control your "behavior" out of state. Gambling is illegal in CA (sort of), but people go to Reno or Vegas to hit the slots.

Here is your proof.

The actual law:

12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol, any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag.
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.

hoffmang
05-09-2006, 1:28 AM
The part I need to make sure is very clear is:

"Any person in this state who ... offers or exposes for sale ... any large-capacity magazine [is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison.]"

That looks like I could be put in prison for offering a high capacity magazine for sale. I don't see where there is an exception for offering it for sale not in California.

The law is very clear that if I owned it before 2000 I can leave the state with it. Once out of the state, California can't stop me from selling a magazine in any state where the local state law would otherwise allow me to sell it.

What I want to know is: can I sell it in interstate commerce while keeping my behind firmly in the Bay Area. If I can... I'll leave that up to people who can read between the lines. (IANAL, but I've played one in way to many federal courtrooms...)

Anybody got a copy of a letter that shows I can sell it to anyone not in California? As I said, I think I need a clean opinion from CA DOJ.

bwiese
05-09-2006, 8:48 AM
You're selling where it's legal, and the sale is legal in CA (since it's not a prohibited customer in a prohibited area) and the other end. I am certain the powers that be are glad to see hicaps leaving the state, never to return.

If you feel really persnickety ship them disassembled - mag tubes in one box, bases/springs/followers in another.

Make sure you state in your ad that there's "no sales to or in California, MA or <list of banned states>". Check that you don't sell hicaps into other banned states - MA, NJ, MD, HI all seem to have some sorts of varying mag limitations, I don't have all the details. (Ohio may have a 30 round limit.)

But why you want to sell hicaps that you'll never be able to get again is beyond me. Many of us bought tons of hicap mags in 1999 for guns we didn't/don't even own...