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jkcerda
08-22-2010, 7:34 PM
PITA to justify a 13" Macbook pro with a duo core processor and 4 GB's and 256 MB video card.
when I can get an HP http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_can_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=notebooks&a1=Category&v1=ENVY&series_name=ENVY15_series&jumpid=in_R329_prodexp/hhoslp/psg/notebooks/ENVY/ENVY15_series
15" screen, 500 GB HD, I5 processor and its upgradable to 8 GB's of memory and 1 GB video card

the mac/PC would be used to make flash games. help will be appreciated.

I looked a bit, but, i could not find an apples to PC testing across the processors

I keep hearing the macs are more efficient, well, how do they compare against a PC with a better processor?
the 2.4 dual core VS the I5 or I7 processor?

thanks

MelvinoelGreat
08-22-2010, 7:35 PM
I am a very big Mac fan, my friend. I have had multiple PC's, and not a one of them even remotely compares to my Mac. All the best, my friend.

jkcerda
08-22-2010, 7:39 PM
I am a very big Mac fan, my friend. I have had multiple PC's, and not a one of them even remotely compares to my Mac. All the best, my friend.

thanks, its hard not to get the feeling that macs are overpriced whne you cant even get close on the processor speed and the video cards.
they do look well built.

CaliforniaLiberal
08-22-2010, 7:44 PM
It's the Heart and Soul of the Mac that makes all the difference. Processor speed and video cards aren't what make the difference. It's the User Experience.

Macs are on your side, PCs like to f**k with you way too often.

Spend some time using one and see.

racerx944
08-22-2010, 7:44 PM
I am afraid where this thread is going to head...

L4D
08-22-2010, 7:44 PM
I am a very big Mac fan, my friend. I have had multiple PC's, and not a one of them even remotely compares to my Mac. All the best, my friend.

how so?

if your talking price then yes.

performance/power/versatility PC hands down.

Librarian
08-22-2010, 7:47 PM
Moved to Technology.

... and there's never a 'resolution' to the question that satisfies everyone, because all needs and budgets differ.

safewaysecurity
08-22-2010, 7:48 PM
PCs are the greatest. Any tech geek worth their salt will laugh at all those Mac PC commercials because we all know the flaws of macs and the fallacies in their commercials. Macs are for people who do not have enough brain power to handle a mouse that has more than one click. Would you put one pedal in your car? Didn't think so.

ZX-10R
08-22-2010, 7:48 PM
I have an HP ProBook and it is wonderous. However, MACs are so much more reliable than a PC.

If I had a choice for company PC I would get a MAC My home is all MAC...2 new MAC Books one for my wife and daughter and a 4 year old MAC. I have never had a problem with a MAC ever.

MelvinoelGreat
08-22-2010, 7:50 PM
how so?

if your talking price then yes.

performance/power/versatility PC hands down.

Performance/power/versatility PC hands down fails, my friend. Every PC I have owned were quick to fail. I have owned the same MacBook Pro 15" for the past 3 years, and have yet to even encounter a hiccup in it's performance. The same can not even remotely be said about any of the PC's I have owned, hopefully your experience has been better, my friend. Unfortunately, for me, I have had nothing but failure with PC's.

jkcerda
08-22-2010, 7:50 PM
how so?

if your talking price then yes.

performance/power/versatility PC hands down.

price & hardware, PC is king, you get more bang for your buck, but, live the quote below, lots of people who used both would take the mac over the PC regardless of specs.

It's the Heart and Soul of the Mac that makes all the difference. Processor speed and video cards aren't what make the difference. It's the User Experience.

Macs are on your side, PCs like to f**k with you way too often.

Spend some time using one and see.

played with the mac book pro in 13", almost walked out with it, the size of the screen does nto bother me much, is the outdated processor, small video card that stopped me from buying it, 1100 hundred bucks are hard to come by, I need to sell my rifle so i can complete the money, so, its a bit hard justifying getting rid of my gun for an over priced mac,,,,at least for now

jkcerda
08-22-2010, 7:55 PM
Moved to Technology.

... and there's never a 'resolution' to the question that satisfies everyone, because all needs and budgets differ.

true, based on that

cash? less than 1300
needs? flash programing & 3-d game design.

E Pluribus Unum
08-22-2010, 7:57 PM
Macs run on the same hardware as PCs. What sets Mac heads above a PC is their BSD unix based Operating System.

Save your money, buy a PC, and then install Ubuntu Linux on it.

Very efficient for half the cost.

jkcerda
08-22-2010, 7:59 PM
Macs run on the same hardware as PCs. What sets Mac heads above a PC is their BSD unix based Operating System.

Save your money, buy a PC, and then install Ubuntu Linux on it.

Very efficient for half the cost.

looking into it http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

BOFH
08-22-2010, 8:04 PM
We have several Macs in the house and they are nice, and since I am a long time UNIX guy I like OSX...but I can also run OSX on a few of our PC's and they run great. So, yea, the performance per buck is greater with PC hardware, but that's not why you buy a Mac. If you want a Mac and the support from Apple buy a Mac. If you don't have a specific need to run Windows buy a Mac. You don't buy a Mac to brag about benchmark scores.

ocabj
08-22-2010, 8:07 PM
I bought my first Mac (iBook) in 2001 because of OS X. I've been using Apple hardware since then because of the OS X.

Though a huge reason why I switched to Apple laptops in 2001 is because they worked better for mobile use. Specifically with regards to sleep mode. In 2001, you could never get a Windows laptop to properly sleep. Not to mention Windows had different variations of 'off'. Besides on and powered down, you had sleep and hibernate/suspend. Then you had hibernate to RAM and hibernate to disk. And they all sucked. It took nearly 30 sec to a minute just to hibernate fully and another 30sec to 1 min to wake up again. When I got my iBook, it was great because you shut the lid and it was off in a couple sec. You opened the lid and it was ready to go in a couple sec.

I suggest you go with a non-Apple laptop simply because it seems like you aren't hugely invested/committed to OS X. As you said before, on paper you're getting more specifications (hardware) for the dollar by going with HP/Dell/etc vs Apple.

Myself, I just can't use Windows anymore. I haven't used Windows for my workstation and laptop OS in nearly 7 years. I have to administer Windows and an Active Directory infrastructure, but I prefer to not use Windows on my own workstation(s).

But if I were to get a non-Apple laptop, I would definitely get a Thinkpad.

Gryff
08-22-2010, 8:08 PM
PCs are the greatest. Any tech geek worth their salt will laugh at all those Mac PC commercials because we all know the flaws of macs and the fallacies in their commercials. Macs are for people who do not have enough brain power to handle a mouse that has more than one click. Would you put one pedal in your car? Didn't think so.

Sounds like you were beaten up by a Mac user in high school. :D

jkcerda
08-22-2010, 8:10 PM
We have several Macs in the house and they are nice, and since I am a long time UNIX guy I like OSX...but I can also run OSX on a few of our PC's and they run great. So, yea, the performance per buck is greater with PC hardware, but that's not why you buy a Mac. If you want a Mac and the support from Apple buy a Mac. If you don't have a specific need to run Windows buy a Mac. You don't buy a Mac to brag about benchmark scores.

the impression that I keep getting is that macs ,,,,,"are cool, nice, good looking, work great, reliable, ETC"

what I also hear is that they DONT come close performance wise when you buy a PC for the same amount of cash as a mac?

1300 mac= older technology
1300 PC, = new technology

mac with I5 processor and 512 MB Video card 2.2 k http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC373LL/A?mco=MTc0Njg1ODE

PC with I5 processor 1300 and 1 GB video card http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_can_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=notebooks&a1=Category&v1=ENVY&series_name=ENVY15_series&jumpid=in_R329_prodexp/hhoslp/psg/notebooks/ENVY/ENVY15_series

BOFH
08-22-2010, 8:16 PM
If your main issue is bang for your buck the choice is clear.

ocabj
08-22-2010, 8:17 PM
the impression that I keep getting is that macs ,,,,,"are cool, nice, good looking, work great, reliable, ETC"

what I also hear is that they DONT come close performance wise when you buy a PC for the same amount of cash as a mac?


Because what you say is true. Dollar for dollar, you're going to get more on paper with regards to hardware specs if you go with non-Apple. I have long been pondering building a 'Hackintosh' desktop, and the cost is far lower than any iMac or Mac Pro with equivalent or better specs.

You're kind of answering your own questions and should just go with a non-Apple computer.

Like I said before, it sounds like you're not committed to OS X, so you should just not consider it.

ocabj
08-22-2010, 8:19 PM
PCs are the greatest. Any tech geek worth their salt will laugh at all those Mac PC commercials because we all know the flaws of macs and the fallacies in their commercials. Macs are for people who do not have enough brain power to handle a mouse that has more than one click. Would you put one pedal in your car? Didn't think so.

Wow. Incredible argument. I guess I'm going to go file my resignation at work since I'm obviously not worth my salt because I use Apple computers and OS X.

jkcerda
08-22-2010, 8:20 PM
Because what you say is true. Dollar for dollar, you're going to get more on paper with regards to hardware specs if you go with non-Apple. I have long been pondering building a 'Hackintosh' desktop, and the cost is far lower than any iMac or Mac Pro with equivalent or better specs.

You're kind of answering your own questions and should just go with a non-Apple computer.

Like I said before, it sounds like you're not committed to OS X, so you should just not consider it.

been pondering a hackingtosh as well, PC it is, the HP Envy linked above with a 2 year accident replacement is around the 1300 buck area, seems the best choice so far.

lazyworm
08-22-2010, 8:22 PM
about the price of Mac vs PC.

My response is... you either pay for it when you buy the machine
or you pay for it later in terms of wasted time dealing with virus, worms
and/or other problems that require you to juggle your data and reinstall
windows from scratch.

Go buy the mac.

If you want it cheaper, look for refurbs -- http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac

bigmike82
08-22-2010, 8:23 PM
OSX is the reason I *dont* use Macs. I hate it, with a passion.

Macs are *solid* machines. They're slick, sexy, and reliable. But they are not cost effective as PCs, nor as versatile.

I prefer PCs. A lot of 'creative' people like Macs. If you're going to be creating flash games, google around and see what other developers are using. That'll tell you a lot.

"My response is... you either pay for it when you buy the machine
or you pay for it later in terms of wasted time dealing with virus, worms
and/or other problems that require you to juggle your data and reinstall
windows from scratch."
lololololol. Sure you do.

ocabj
08-22-2010, 8:27 PM
OSX is the reason I *dont* use Macs. I hate it, with a passion.

So what is your primary OS? Before I switched to OS X, I was using FreeBSD on my desktop and SuSE on my laptop. Windows XP strictly for Photoshop and Office.

bigmike82
08-22-2010, 8:32 PM
On the Desktop? Windows 7....XP before that. Tried Ubuntu and Wine for a while, got annoyed with it, and switched back.

For my servers, mainly CentOS.

Reductio
08-22-2010, 8:57 PM
Macs run on the same hardware as PCs.


Yeah, because I see so many PC's out there with multi-touch trackpads, backlit keys, magnetic charging cables, 1" thick aluminum bodies.... :rolleyes:

nick
08-22-2010, 9:18 PM
Yeah, because I see so many PC's out there with multi-touch trackpads, backlit keys, magnetic charging cables, 1" thick aluminum bodies.... :rolleyes:

Umm, that's not what is usually referred to as hardware in IT. Then again, color is the main determinant when choosing a car for a lot of people :)

To the OP, buy whatever you're more comfortable with. If you're more comfortable with OSX, buy a Mac. If you're more comfortable with Windows or UNIX/Linux, buy a PC, as you'll get more bang for your buck there. I bought a Dell Studio XPS 16 with 8GB RAM, Core i7 720 quad-core CPU, 1GB ATI Mobility 4670 (my only gripe, I prefer nVidias. ATI makes great cards, but crappy drivers), 250GB 7200rpm hard drive (I specifically wanted the cheapest hard drive they had, as I use my own 500GB Seagates with FDE), 16" 1920x1980 LED display for about $1400 total, this includes the warranty upgraded to 4 years (and accident/other damage protection, which warranties don't usually cover). I've had few issues with Dell support in the last decade or so of using Dells, but then I only call them for hardware replacement. When it comes to Dell, I prefer buying XPSs. They're not as expensive as Precisions, and are as sturdily built (since I always have a laptop with me, they tend to be handled quite roughly every now and then. I dropped my previous XPS, m1210, for maybe 30-40 times over the 3 years I've had it for (I still have it), and it still works, nothing broke either inside or outside). I bought it from Dell Outlet, you can find pretty decent deals there, you just need to know how to play it, since every single Dell seller on Ebay tries to buy from it at the same time.

Apple support, I haven't had much luck with it. Same thing, I only called them for hardware replacement (for work, as my last Mac died over 2 years ago, and I didn't replace it with another Mac as I was able to install OSX in a VM. I'm not a big fan of OSX, but I have it so that I don't forget how to use it :)). Dealing with them was like dealing with arrogant retards who've acquired a superiority complex after dealing with a bunch of dumb users. Then again, that's probably who the people I dealt with were. According to my desktop techs, they hate calling Apple support. Luckily, they don't have to do it that often, as they're pretty good at solving the numerous problems we have running Macs in an enterprise environment (as in directory services, enforced policies, various agents, etc.). One of my desktop techs complained that the 3 Macs we had at the time gave him more trouble tickets than the 120 or so PCs we had. Now that we have about 20 Macs... Then again, Macs are not nearly as bad at home, without the need to properly integrate into a corporate network, which is Macs' traditional weakness. They're ok for what they were designed for though, just overpriced.

sfwdiy
08-22-2010, 9:23 PM
been pondering a hackingtosh as well, PC it is, the HP Envy linked above with a 2 year accident replacement is around the 1300 buck area, seems the best choice so far.

I've been running a Hackintosh media center for about three years now and other than the video card exploding at one point, it's been rock-solid. It's connected to a 52" Samsung plasma and 5.1 surround speakers. There's about 4 TB of storage connected to it for iTunes, movies, etc. Great for Hulu streaming also.

Core 2 duo processor, Asus board, I don't even remember what video card. 6 GB RAM. Threw the whole thing together for under 800 bucks.

The downside: Getting OS X to run with all the proper kexts for your hardware can be a major pain in the wazoo, especially for things like optical audio.

PCs are the greatest. Any tech geek worth their salt will laugh at all those Mac PC commercials because we all know the flaws of macs and the fallacies in their commercials. Macs are for people who do not have enough brain power to handle a mouse that has more than one click. Would you put one pedal in your car? Didn't think so.

:rofl: One mouse button....:rofl2: Is that one ever gonna go away? :rolleyes:


about the price of Mac vs PC.

My response is... you either pay for it when you buy the machine
or you pay for it later in terms of wasted time dealing with virus, worms
and/or other problems that require you to juggle your data and reinstall
windows from scratch.

Go buy the mac.

If you want it cheaper, look for refurbs -- http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac

Refurbs can be a good deal. They come with the same warranty as new products and you can purchase Applecare for them.

A note on the cost of Apple products:

The reason Macs are more expensive than PCs with the same specs is because Apple offers substantially more support to the end user at little to no cost than other manufacturers do.

Apple is able to consistently perform most of their warranty repairs on-site in their retail stores in less than 72 hours. All Apple Stores do this, and there are Apple Stores in just about every major city in the US. No other OEM can offer this kind of repair service.

Apple offers free training seminars and workshops in their stores daily to help new users learn the OS, and also to teach the basics of the iLife application suite.

You can talk to a factory trained tech, usually the same day, for free at the Genius Bar. (Before anyone goes off half-cocked about the Genius Bar, I will agree that the employees there can be somewhat of a mixed-bag. Some are exceptionally knowledgeable, others... well... not so much. But overall they're mostly competent.)

For the power user, these services may not be necessary. But for people who are unfamiliar with the platform, or are new to computers in general, offerings like these are extremely helpful and valuable.

That's why Macs cost more.

--B

sfwdiy
08-22-2010, 9:25 PM
Yeah, because I see so many PC's out there with multi-touch trackpads, backlit keys, magnetic charging cables, 1" thick aluminum bodies.... :rolleyes:

The Macbook Pro I'm typing on right now has OS X 10.6, WinXP, Windows 7, Ubuntu 8 and Ubuntu 9 installed on it. :thumbsup:

ETA: Oh yeah, I forgot about the latest Backtrack distro, I have that too.

--B

Reductio
08-22-2010, 9:34 PM
The Macbook Pro I'm typing on right now has OS X 10.6, WinXP, Windows 7, Ubuntu 8 and Ubuntu 9 installed on it. :thumbsup:

ETA: Oh yeah, I forgot about the latest Backtrack distro, I have that too.

--B

Gotta love the options and flexibility of a mac. :D I personally only run Windows XP and 7, and Ubuntu 8 on a normal basis, but I still wouldn't dare trade my multi-touch trackpad for ANY mouse.

radioburning
08-22-2010, 9:46 PM
Tech nerds like PC's. Fashion models like Mac's. Just my own observation.

nick
08-22-2010, 9:47 PM
:rofl: One mouse button....:rofl2: Is that one ever gonna go away? :rolleyes:

--B

Nope, not until they put one or two more buttons on it :p

nick
08-22-2010, 9:48 PM
Tech nerds like PC's. Fashion models like Mac's. Just my own observation.

Who are you calling a fashion model??? :p

bigmike82
08-22-2010, 9:50 PM
"Tech nerds like PC's. Fashion models like Mac's. Just my own observation."

*snickers*

Ya know, he's got a point... ;)

sfwdiy
08-22-2010, 9:56 PM
"Tech nerds like PC's. Fashion models like Mac's. Just my own observation."

*snickers*

Ya know, he's got a point... ;)

Well, ocabj and I are incredibly fashionable and attractive. :p

--B

sfwdiy
08-22-2010, 9:58 PM
OSX is the reason I *dont* use Macs. I hate it, with a passion.

What is it about OS X that bothers you?

--B

StephenhDMRS
08-22-2010, 10:30 PM
I personally hate Mac's. They are a "socialist" company. I got the newest Ipod and was utterly disappointed with it. I can ONLY Sync it with ONE computer. I can't choose to not automatically sync and plug it in on a different computer. My only option is to automatically sync with a computer I plug it into. Mac's have NO options. Your stuck with mac products and mac's way of doing it. I can hack my computer 27 different ways and do whatever I want with it.

If you want the ability to truly do what you want, get a PC. If you are not technologically savvy, buy a Mac. I never get stumped by windows. I have a HP and while it was cheap, it has lasted for 4 years now and never let me know. Still going strong.

Pc's you have options. Mac you get more overly priced mac stuff :P Pc's have more applications/programs that work with it. Gamers create games on a windows PC, not a mac.

And as far as mac's being more reliable it's just not true. it's the same ratio of good to lemon computers for all companies. Mac's just produce less so you hear about it less. My one friend had a mac motherboard fry in 2 weeks and had her video card fry in 2 more weeks. Just saying.

bigmike82
08-22-2010, 10:41 PM
"What is it about OS X that bothers you?"

The biggest thing?

The UI. I can't get comfortable with it. The way the stuff is laid out doesn't make sense to me, the system settings are horribly simplistic, and installing ubuntu to dual boot was a royal pain in the butt from what I remember (granted, this was two years ago on a very basic macbook...).

There's simply nothing in OSX that I couldn't do better and more easily in other Operating Systems. For gaming and administrative work crap (Outlook, Visio, Project,etc) I've got my Windows box. For my server infrastructure, I've got Linux. OSX doesn't fit anywhere, for me anyway.

That said, they do make very, very slick machines. I wouldn't give it away if someone gave me one, but I can't justify spending the money on one when I could buy an Alienware instead. :)

Double_D
08-22-2010, 10:57 PM
http://www.geekpedia.com/gallery/fullsize/mac-vs-pc-packing-heat.jpg

Sajedene
08-22-2010, 11:04 PM
I'm a PC and I love it.

The whole image of Mac being untouchable is funny because its not true. I've never personally had any issues with my PC because I stay away from malicious sites and emails and what not... and at the same time, if I were to make a virus, would I target the bigger market, or the smaller one? (And Macs do have their own shares of viruses)

I also love the power and how easily upgradable PC's are without having to break the bank.

If I'd go super techy - I'd go Linux. But PC does well enough for me and my needs. Only thing MAC on me is my make-up.

sfwdiy
08-22-2010, 11:35 PM
"What is it about OS X that bothers you?"

The biggest thing?

The UI. I can't get comfortable with it. The way the stuff is laid out doesn't make sense to me, the system settings are horribly simplistic, and installing ubuntu to dual boot was a royal pain in the butt from what I remember (granted, this was two years ago on a very basic macbook...).

Fair enough. I know a few people who were just never able to get comfortable with the UI. I prefer it over XP or Win7. I prefer Ubuntu over Windows also.

I also NEVER play video games. They're the one aspect of computing that I care the least about, so the gaming-on-mac issues have never been a factor for me. For some folks it's a deal-breaker.

Dual-boot installs are a lot easier these days, but honestly VMWare's Linux support is so good that it's pointless to dual-boot on the newer hardware. I haven't found a reason to native-boot linux or Windows in years.

--B

nick
08-22-2010, 11:44 PM
http://www.geekpedia.com/gallery/fullsize/mac-vs-pc-packing-heat.jpg

So your point is that PCs are pro-gun? :p

NSR500
08-23-2010, 4:46 AM
It doesn't matter too much to me anymore hardware wise for my needs. I can run Linux on both Mac and PC architecture. I can also run Windows on Mac, and OSX on PC now too.
Each OS and Hardware platform has it's merits, so why not become proficient in all of them. As for what to buy, it's just like guns. Buy what appeals to you and your use.

jkcerda
08-23-2010, 8:15 AM
found a decent compromise
http://www.frys.com/product/6131299;jsessionid=EgAewpfmFC19gXKuhDxz2A**.node2? site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
heard plenty of horror stories on the HP:(

stphnman20
08-23-2010, 8:42 AM
I say get the Mac and install bootcamp.. So you have both OS X and Windows..

Invicta
08-23-2010, 8:48 AM
PC

Performance
Compatibility with Third-Party Options (Software/Hardware)
Bang for your Buck
Hackability for us geeks

MAC

Hardware Design
Cool Factor
Semi-Closed/Controlled System generally means less stuff breaking on the software side
Smaller target for viruses/malware

Toss Up

UI (This used to be a more in the MAC camp but I would argue Windows 7 has caught back up)


Just my humble opinion. I use Windows 7 and have dabbled in Linux. My time spent with MACs has been short.

Just think about what you might be able to spend that ~$400 you save such as software, accessories or unrelated stuff like firearms, heh. For me, the perks of a MAC have never been justified by the premium. I have worked in IT for the last 8 years and messed around with computers for the last 16 years.

I would probably recommend my mother or grandmother get a MAC. I hear artists/design people love them. I think it is a left brain/right brain thing.

Something else to note is that Steve Jobs hates Adobe Flash so you might want to avoid giving him more money to kill it off.

StephenhDMRS
08-23-2010, 8:56 AM
Invicta is right about Flash. Apple is anti flash. The new ipad didn't even have flash(it might now with an update). But for YOUR purposes, a windows PC is the way to go. As I said before, games are created on windows for windows.

In regards to HP, there just as many bad apples as mac has. Toshiba is great to though. My gf has had her laptop for 5+ years now. NO problems at all. It's a great laptop.

jkcerda
08-23-2010, 9:03 AM
Invicta is right about Flash. Apple is anti flash. The new ipad didn't even have flash(it might now with an update). But for YOUR purposes, a windows PC is the way to go. As I said before, games are created on windows for windows.

In regards to HP, there just as many bad apples as mac has. Toshiba is great to though. My gf has had her laptop for 5+ years now. NO problems at all. It's a great laptop.

thanks, seems Toshiba will be my work horse.:)

amd64
08-23-2010, 9:19 AM
If you're doing Flash work, get a laptop with an i7 CPU and Win7 64-bit and don't look back.

The only reason I could justify spending money for a MAC would be to run MAC-specific apps.

Check out the ASUS barebones laptops; they can be spec'd up to your needs. Companies like http://www.xoticpc.com/ can do this.

If you get a laptop from a large vendor like HP, Dell, etc., request a copy of the original Win7 install disk. When you get the machine, do an image copy of the original factory install, then reinstall Windows, necessary drivers, security package, and you'll be good to go. The factory OS installs from the large vendors are polluted with crapware/adware/bloatware. Just keep the image copy of the factory install in case of warranty claims.

Zomgie
08-23-2010, 10:23 AM
Another +1 for a Mac.

I'm a Linux guy. Before my current Mac (Macbook Pro 15") I had a Dell laptop with SUSE on it. At home I have a Windows machine for computer games.

First off, there are a lot of reasons I like the Mac. Having terminal access to a bash shell is pretty high on my list, considering I do a lot of scripting and network activities. Even from a non-UNIX point of view, the Mac Just Works (tm). The quality of everything is top notch. I can't remember the last time my computer 'crashed'.

Also, the argument that Mac are more expensive isn't as true as you'd think. Oh, yes, they're definitely expensive. However, when you get down to it and really look at all the hardware they put in there you'd have a hard time building a comparable non-Apple machine for the same price. Check out this article: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9023959/Mac_vs._PC_cost_analysis_How_does_it_all_add_up_?

My current laptop is work provided. If I didn't have one given to me? Well, I don't have a lot of extra cash... So I'd probably throw Ubuntu on an old Dell laptop and start saving. Because really, my Macbook is the best machine I've ever used.

stphnman20
08-23-2010, 10:26 AM
thanks, seems Toshiba will be my work horse.:)
I have a 4+ yr old Toshiba. Survived 2 tours in iraq and still going strong. But I'm going to give Mac a whirl and see how it holds up.

nick
08-23-2010, 10:32 AM
found a decent compromise
http://www.frys.com/product/6131299;jsessionid=EgAewpfmFC19gXKuhDxz2A**.node2? site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
heard plenty of horror stories on the HP:(

The only issue is the 5400rpm hard drive. I'd get a 7200rpm drive (well, I'd actually get it with full encryption, but that's a matter of preference. You can get a 500GB 7200rpm Seagate with FDE for about $140 these days), or an SSD drive, but those are pricey and the quality/speed is uneven between brands still. You're right about HPs, they've been plagued by a lot of issues in the last decade or so.

Californio
08-23-2010, 10:54 AM
I am bilingual, started out before the PC existed, with Mini's and some Mainframe code. Altair 8088, Basic OS (written by Gates and friends), CPM, MS-Dos, Windows, Xenix, NT, Unix, OSX. I had an Intel development machine (386) $10K, 8 megs of memory was $3K. My first 10meg disk drive was $10K and weighed 150lbs. Times do change.

I got over my dog is better than your dog years ago.

Family has 4 OSX laptops and they work just fine. I use MS-Office but try to not use any thing else. I have an old P4 running XP for programing radios and just because, Apple offers me a better integrated solution.

paul0660
08-23-2010, 11:05 AM
You have heard of FUD...........well, THIS It's the User Experience. is what we call Steve's Flavor-aid. And yes our household has both.

Dankle
08-23-2010, 11:37 AM
That said, they do make very, very slick machines. I wouldn't give it away if someone gave me one, but I can't justify spending the money on one when I could buy an Alienware instead. :)

I would sell it and keep my PC. Then I would buy a new gun with the proceeds of the MAC. :D

I have played with MAC laptops for a couple years now (have to use one for work) and found that I prefer Windows based systems. I can't even remember the last time I had a virus/malware problem on my PC's and I surf some questionable sites. :chris:

JohanD
08-23-2010, 11:53 AM
PC

More games, more applications. Always been that way.

Nowdays macs use the same hardware also, just a different OS.

jkcerda
08-23-2010, 12:01 PM
The only issue is the 5400rpm hard drive. I'd get a 7200rpm drive (well, I'd actually get it with full encryption, but that's a matter of preference. You can get a 500GB 7200rpm Seagate with FDE for about $140 these days), or an SSD drive, but those are pricey and the quality/speed is uneven between brands still. You're right about HPs, they've been plagued by a lot of issues in the last decade or so.

found better HD, Video card and more mem for the extra 150

http://www.frys.com/product/6132099

erblo
08-23-2010, 12:27 PM
If you get a laptop from a large vendor like HP, Dell, etc., request a copy of the original Win7 install disk. When you get the machine, do an image copy of the original factory install, then reinstall Windows, necessary drivers, security package, and you'll be good to go. The factory OS installs from the large vendors are polluted with crapware/adware/bloatware. Just keep the image copy of the factory install in case of warranty claims.

Another thing you don't have to deal with on Macs. :p

nick
08-23-2010, 7:40 PM
found better HD, Video card and more mem for the extra 150

http://www.frys.com/product/6132099

Everything looks good but the display resolution. You'll appreciate 1920x1080, trust me, especially with that big video card. At some point you'll want to get a 9-cell battery, too. That CPU is a power hog, for a mobile CPU, but that's something you can get later.

Also, you might want to find something with LED display (although due to the shortage of LED panels it might be expensive, the best time to buy those was half a year ago) and with a Gigabit NIC, but those aren't necessarily deal-breakers. Do look into Dell XPSs on Dell Outlet. When you go there, keep in mind that Ebay sellers add pretty much all the laptops available at the time to their cart and then decide what to buy. Once they're done, the remaining laptops are released from their cart. So you might see 120 laptops available, then refresh it and see 2 available laptops, then refresh it again and see 40, and so on. You might have to do a lot of refreshing before you find the laptop you want for the price you want. It may be worth it in the end though. I bought a laptop I mentioned in one of my previous posts for about $1000 with shipping (but before tax, and Dell does charge the tax in CA), and then added 3 more years of warranty and accident protection/insurance for about $400 or so. The only thing lacking was the hard drive (250GB 5400rpm), but that wasn't important to me since I use my own hard drives.

Since you dab in programming, you can write a script that does the refreshing for you and looks for specific parameters for your laptop, and emails you if it finds anything, and then adds it to your cart. I used WhatsUp Gold (the monitoring system I use) to run the script every minute, and would then check the cart once I get the email. Found the laptop I wanted for the price I wanted (below what I was willing to pay, actually) after about 5 hours or so of running that script.

jkcerda
08-23-2010, 8:20 PM
found better HD, Video card and more mem for the extra 150

http://www.frys.com/product/6132099
Picked the last one they had

kapache
08-25-2010, 10:42 AM
Hi I am KAPACHE and I am a PC!

locosway
08-25-2010, 3:35 PM
There used to be a reason to run a Mac. Their hardware was faster for a lot of things that just seemed to take forever on a PC.

With Apple going to PC hardware, there's no reason to justify buying a Mac anymore unless you really want the two stickers that come with the laptop for your car.

You can install Windows, Linux, and OSX on both Macs and PC's. So why spend the money on the same hardware just to get something that's on every TV show?