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View Full Version : Shot my 91/30 for the first time today


crackerman
08-21-2010, 10:14 PM
Shot my 91/30 for the first time today and what ablast it was. Not that bad with regards to recoil, no worse then my Mossberg 500. But I am a 12 ga junkie so I am use to the shoulder abuse. It chewed up a blowing pin quite nicely. Now to strip it down and clean the stock a little bit. For a $90 big 5 shooter it is great.

InFamous20
08-21-2010, 10:17 PM
How does it feel? I have an m44, bought it two months ago and I still haven't shot it.

Divernhunter
08-22-2010, 12:50 AM
The M44 feels like it has more kick and it does have more muzzle blast. When shooting the M44 the bayonet should be extended or it will shoot to a different point of aim.

scoot64
08-22-2010, 2:41 AM
M44 way narlier to shoot. I've got an m38 and a 91/30 I get fireballs out the end of my M38. U can feel the pressure a couple benches down.

gorblimey
08-22-2010, 10:08 PM
Heavy ball out of the M44 makes subsequent .223 practice feel like rimfire, but it's not bad. What I don't look forward to are high velocity slugs out of a light pump.

IXMM
08-22-2010, 10:30 PM
M44 way narlier to shoot. I've got an m38 and a 91/30 I get fireballs out the end of my M38. U can feel the pressure a couple benches down.


that things gets attention indeed.

NaughtyMonkey
08-22-2010, 10:35 PM
I agree the M44 has more kick and doesn't seem to be as accurate. I own an M44 and 91/30. Both from Big 5.

stitchnicklas
08-22-2010, 11:33 PM
Heavy ball out of the M44 makes subsequent .223 practice feel like rimfire, but it's not bad. What I don't look forward to are high velocity slugs out of a light pump.

i totally agree,i have both and say wtf when i shoot both consecutively

nemisis1400
08-22-2010, 11:41 PM
Seriously, i want to make muzzle attachments for the m38 and m44 rifles so that I can make patterns with those giant fireballs.

It would be awesome.

NaughtyMonkey
08-22-2010, 11:56 PM
Seriously, i want to make muzzle attachments for the m38 and m44 rifles so that I can make patterns with those giant fireballs.

It would be awesome.

I'd like to see that lol.

johnthomas
08-23-2010, 12:13 AM
I have 2, m44's and 3 91/30's. When I get one, I head space it, clean it and shoot it. Then I take it apart, clean everything right down to the small spring in the bolt. I clean and reblue the metal, strip the wood, stain and finish it off with about 12 to 15 coats of tru oil to make it shine. I own the spring loaded stamps for metal. I have begun putting my personal mark under the butt stocks on the butt of the gun, hidden from view. I also have all the numbers in my log book.

JeffM
08-23-2010, 1:04 AM
I have 2, m44's and 3 91/30's. When I get one, I head space it, clean it and shoot it. Then I take it apart, clean everything right down to the small spring in the bolt. I clean and reblue the metal, strip the wood, stain and finish it off with about 12 to 15 coats of tru oil to make it shine. I own the spring loaded stamps for metal. I have begun putting my personal mark under the butt stocks on the butt of the gun, hidden from view. I also have all the numbers in my log book.

Why?

You ruin the historical value of the gun by doing so.

Are you a 07 FFL doing this as a business?

johnthomas
08-23-2010, 11:09 AM
Why?

You ruin the historical value of the gun by doing so.

Are you a 07 FFL doing this as a business?

Historical value of a 99 dollar gun that was produced by the millions. What value is there in a dinged up half blued full of cosmo gun? Do you clean the 60 year old grease out of the gun? Why? An old Russian dude put it there, you want to destroy his memory or what? A gun is a simple machine that wears better when taken care of.
When it comes to monetary value, put one of mine next to one that I have not done and mine will sell for 25 to 50 percent more. Historic value, wasn't that taken out when it was sent to be re-arsneled? If there were only a few hundred left, I would agree. No, I am not an 07 dealer, 07 dealers take them out of the crate, throw them in a shipping box and sends them out. I do have an 03 license.
When it comes to guns of historcal value, an all orginal never replaced parts or stock, non forced numberd gun is of greater value. By the way, I'm not defending what I do with MY guns, after all, they are MINE. Like anything else in life, beauty really is in the eyes of the beholder. If a person feels a gun bought from big 5 is perfect for them the way it is, great. I only shared what I do to mine to make them perfect for me.

ZX-10R
08-23-2010, 11:12 AM
M44 is a kicker compared to any gun I have shot including a 12ga shotty. Makes it hard to shoot but the challenge is hitting the target accurately. 91/30s are nice if you get a good one.

paul0660
08-23-2010, 11:24 AM
To each his own.

In 25 years people might be breaking their guns down to find out if they are a johnthomas original.

johnthomas
08-23-2010, 11:36 AM
To each his own.

In 25 years people might be breaking their guns down to find out if they are a johnthomas original.

LOL I can see it now, an orginal re-arsneled, refurbished Johnthomas. Sold at big5 for 99 bucks, now 50 because it is clean, pretty and shoots well, lol.

Milsurp Collector
08-23-2010, 1:19 PM
Historical value of a 99 dollar gun that was produced by the millions. What value is there in a dinged up half blued full of cosmo gun?

When it comes to monetary value, put one of mine next to one that I have not done and mine will sell for 25 to 50 percent more.


I agree with most of what you said, except for the part that Mosin Nagants don't have historical value because they currently sell for $99 at Big 5, or that your "improvements" aren't going to reduce the value in the long run. They used to say the same thing about M1903s, K98ks, etc. They were made by the millions, were cheap (at one time), and that's why so many were sporterized.

http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt337/milsurp_collector/oldGunAds/9da6a8ca.jpg

Many guys probably thought the same way about those $28.00 K98ks or even those $59.50 G-43s as those who think today that $99 Mosins are common, cheap, and lacking in collector value. Those other World War II rifles are worth a lot more now than they were then, but only if they haven't been "improved". Cleaned and maintained, yes, absolutely important, but refinishing and stamping things will generally permanently reduce value.

But as you said, you can do whatever you want with your rifles, including painting them pink. But let's give those Mosins their proper respect. They were used by one of the major World War II powers to defeat Fascism, and they aren't making any more. Some day the supply will dry up and they won't be for sale at Big 5 for $99. Some day we'll look back at today's prices (like we look at those old gun ads) and remember when you could get a Mosin at Big 5 for "only" $99, and wish we had bought more (and left them unaltered). ;)

Rem222
08-23-2010, 2:15 PM
Congrats on your pick up and range day.... I have two Mosins, they are a blast and also a lot of fun to shoot.....

mosinnagantm9130
08-23-2010, 6:30 PM
Excellent post Milsurp Collector.

laika
08-23-2010, 6:50 PM
Thank you also Milsurp collector.

I know my M/N's are not that special to anyone else but they are to me. I love the history and they are nice guns overall. Everyone has the right to alter his gun in any way, it's his to do it, but these are a piece of history and works of art as I see it. Money isn't the only scale on which to judge them.

People are also going on about the sub $200 SKS's and the sub $300 SVT-40's we (mostly) missed out on.

nemisis1400
08-23-2010, 7:49 PM
This makes me think of how our ar-15's can't be something sacred since everything can be switched out in a matter of seconds. But it's nice at the same time to have the freedom to do what ever you want with it.

hypnoman
08-23-2010, 9:03 PM
I have 2, m44's and 3 91/30's. When I get one, I head space it, clean it and shoot it. Then I take it apart, clean everything right down to the small spring in the bolt. I clean and reblue the metal, strip the wood, stain and finish it off with about 12 to 15 coats of tru oil to make it shine. I own the spring loaded stamps for metal. I have begun putting my personal mark under the butt stocks on the butt of the gun, hidden from view. I also have all the numbers in my log book.

I agree with JohnThomas . . . I love Mosin Nagants, absolutely love them, their looks, their history and mostly love shooting them! But I love certain ones even more, much more after I give them a trigger job, free float their barrel, glass bed their stock and more . . . and they shoot even better!! I really love them then . . . the other Mosins I don't touch, but I just look at them!!! With a few million circulating, we can afford to buy a whole bunch right now . . . to collect, shoot, customize and really have fun with!!

Noonanda
08-24-2010, 7:03 PM
I agree with JohnThomas . . . I love Mosin Nagants, absolutely love them, their looks, their history and mostly love shooting them! But I love certain ones even more, much more after I give them a trigger job, free float their barrel, glass bed their stock and more . . . and they shoot even better!! I really love them then . . . the other Mosins I don't touch, but I just look at them!!! With a few million circulating, we can afford to buy a whole bunch right now . . . to collect, shoot, customize and really have fun with!!

I remember a few years ago when Big 5 Carried M-38's and everyone thought they were plentiful too. Now you are lucky if any of the major importers carry them.

another fact is that while K-98s, enfields, and other mausers have been imported since the 1950s, the cold war only ended in 1990/1991, and they have only been importing them since 93 time frame. yest the importers are not able to import any more of certain models because there are no more

Mr Wizard
08-24-2010, 7:35 PM
Congrats OP, welcome to the MN family. Now you need an M44 to pair it up with.
I'm not a big Mosin collector, but I have more than a couple M44 and 91/30 in my safes.
I enjoy running across an all matching, all stamped specimen, but I also don't have a problem with bubbafying an ugly, torn up beater either.

To some purists here, just touching up the peeling shellac is sacrilege.:eek:

Double_D
08-24-2010, 7:47 PM
A $90 beast that packs a huge punch for only $0.20 a round. It's pretty hard to beat that kind of deal. I love my m91/30 :)

Noonanda
08-24-2010, 7:58 PM
Congrats OP, welcome to the MN family. Now you need an M44 to pair it up with.
I'm not a big Mosin collector, but I have more than a couple M44 and 91/30 in my safes.
I enjoy running across an all matching, all stamped specimen, but I also don't have a problem with bubbafying an ugly, torn up beater either.

To some purists here, just touching up the peeling shellac is sacrilege.:eek:

I will agree there is a difference. I have a few barrelled recievers that will one day be put together, but they came as parts guns missing all kinds of stuff. It is different than taking a Matching gun and sporterizing it.
the act of sporterizing is taking a 100 dollar gun, investing 150 dollars in parts and labor to end up with a 50 dollar gun

Mr Wizard
08-24-2010, 8:06 PM
I will agree there is a difference. I have a few barrelled recievers that will one day be put together, but they came as parts guns missing all kinds of stuff. It is different than taking a Matching gun and sporterizing it.
the act of sporterizing is taking a 100 dollar gun, investing 150 dollars in parts and labor to end up with a 50 dollar gun

Well said... agree 100%

RaceDay
08-25-2010, 7:17 AM
Hey guys, I am not a big fan of sporterizing either but if it is somebody's gun then let them do what they want. Why do you have to climb on the high horse? Whenever I search on gunbroker and see sporterized 1903 or 1917, I just move on to the next auction. But why not let johnthomas or others do what they want with their rifles. They are HIS rifles. If you want to save the Mosins then take up a collection and start a free range farm to keep them all comfortable for the next century.

A sporterized 1903 or Garand or K98 is a bummer but it makes the ones that I have worth more. Whatever. The guns are just tools. I love the history too but life is for having fun with stuff and not sitting it on a shelf so that your grandbabies can pass it on to their kids. When I was a kid, I played with all my Star Wars toys and switched the heads off of Han Solo and the aliens. So it is a bummer than I can't sell them "new in packaging" to somebody on ebay today and put the money into my son's college fund. But I had fun with my toys. Today, I am the same way. I'm not going to sporterize anything but I will shoot everything I own. A rifle may be 70 years old and in great shape for its age. Well, the bore is going to be a little less pristine after I put 100 rounds downrange on a Sunday afternoon. :)

Crunch130
08-25-2010, 7:54 AM
Back to the original question - recoil. Mosin carbines tend to have pretty stout recoil whether you shoot light ball or heavy. Maybe a slip-on recoil pad tames it enough for you, maybe it doesn't. If I had one, I would handload 125-gr flatbase bullets (intended for 7.62X39) over a mild charge of 4895.

91/30's aren't bad at all with the Russian or Bulgarian light ball available lately. I have a Finnish M39, which at about 9.5 pounds, is a bit heavier than a 91/30. With the slip-on recoil pad and light ball, the recoil is VERY mild and accuracy is outstanding (like 1.25 inches at 100 yards off sandbags with the open sights).

In fact, from the sitting position, I significantly outshot 5 other guys in an informal match. One had an M4-style AR with a red dot and the others had bolt .223 varmint guns with big scopes. (Didn't do as well from the other positions, but that's me, not the rifle.)

Crunch

Cochise82
08-25-2010, 8:05 AM
There is a difference in "historical value" and "investment value". Even though the gun may never increase in value, you can't replace the fact that the gun you're holding may have taken down a few Nazis. There are a ton of guns out there that can be completely overhauled and made like new, but I personally will only do "non destructive" work on my 91/30.

I have an old pocket watch from my Grandpa. I'll put a new battery in it and polish it up a little, but I'm not gonna tap any holes in it our mount a new chain on it.

Milsurp Collector
08-25-2010, 8:09 AM
Hey guys, I am not a big fan of sporterizing either but if it is somebody's gun then let them do what they want. Why do you have to climb on the high horse? Whenever I search on gunbroker and see sporterized 1903 or 1917, I just move on to the next auction. But why not let johnthomas or others do what they want with their rifles.

Who's stopping them? They are free to do whatever they want, and others are free to have opinions on the subject.

ZRX61
08-25-2010, 3:32 PM
In 50 years when a Mosin is worth all of $250 I can put the shellac back on...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/ZRX61/GunStuff/TulaMosin001.jpg

mosinnagantm9130
08-25-2010, 3:41 PM
In 50 years when a Mosin is worth all of $250 I can put the shellac back on...


$250? Hell, some of mine are already worth more than that.:D

ZRX61
08-25-2010, 4:00 PM
LOL! I guess my 1904 Finn dragoon might be worth a bit more

JSolie
08-25-2010, 4:10 PM
heh...I always thought that historical only kicked in if the serial numbers match. Otherwise, if someone wants to make changes to something that they own, let them. There's room in car clubs for classics and for lead sleds.

I'm only able to put about 5 or 6 rounds through my M91/30 (which is still unmodified, though I'd like to try getting a different stock) before my shoulder starts feeling it. My son, however, easily finish up the box of ammo that I started and then go looking for more :D

Eddie1965
08-25-2010, 4:53 PM
I remember a few years ago when Big 5 Carried M-38's and everyone thought they were plentiful too. Now you are lucky if any of the major importers carry them.

another fact is that while K-98s, enfields, and other mausers have been imported since the 1950s, the cold war only ended in 1990/1991, and they have only been importing them since 93 time frame. yest the importers are not able to import any more of certain models because there are no more

I was one of the lucky ones that got a M-38 from Big 5. I was like $80 out the door. The cheapest I've seen out there are the low 200s.

dmax11
08-25-2010, 5:52 PM
i recently got a 43 Izzy 91/30 from big 5. first time i took it out i shot 20 rounds of milsurp (147gr FMJ) though it two days in a row and my shoulder was fine. last weekend we went to the range and i shot about 30 rounds of russian made 174gr FMJ and 10 rounds of Winchester 180gr SP and between the heavier bullets and the fact i did not have a jacket on at the range while i did when we were camping i now have a very bruised shoulder, after about 30 rounds i wanted to keep shooting it but it hurt so much i had to use a sandbag at the range between the butt on my shoulder to continue to do so :D

due to the iron sights being off as they usually are on these rifles when not adjusted i decided to just try my hand at 50 yards to get an idea of where it was landing bullets and then adjusted for it and here was the results once i knew where to aim

here are the results

MFS 174gr FMJ (big 5 sells em) @ 50 yards
12 out of 12 all in the black 2 in the bullseye (holes near the edges are from staples)

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp33/Frito_023/IMG_20100825_184114.jpg

Winchester 180gr Soft points @ 50 yards

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp33/Frito_023/IMG_20100825_184528.jpg

I had to aim at 7:30 right at the edge of the black ring to get my shots where they are on these targets, in retrospect i should have been aiming further to the bottom left ring at that position to get the groups centered on the targets as you can see

not bad considering the age and condition of the rifle, bore is dark and somewhat pitted although it has cleaned up fairly well and has strong rifling still and a decent muzzle as well. i'm also a pretty new shooter and this is first center fire rifle so i'm not at all experienced yet

Noonanda
08-25-2010, 7:26 PM
Everyone always says "oh there was millions made, they will be around forever" Well lets use the Recent CMP Carbine sellout for example. When the CMP got the last batch they said there would be enough for a few years of sales.

Back in the day they used to go for $79.50 according to this Century arms ad (previously posted by milsurp collector). Back then they went for more than a G-43 (which sells for around $2000 nowdays). So keep believing that they will always be available for sale at a cheap price. Ive also got a G-43 to sell you then for $59.50 too

http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt337/milsurp_collector/oldGunAds/9da6a8ca.jpg

rojocorsa
08-25-2010, 7:43 PM
I have personally held two of John Thomas' Mosins; one M-44 and one 91/30.

He certainly does a good job on their stockes.

hypnoman
08-26-2010, 7:27 PM
Congrats OP, welcome to the MN family. Now you need an M44 to pair it up with.
I'm not a big Mosin collector, but I have more than a couple M44 and 91/30 in my safes.
I enjoy running across an all matching, all stamped specimen, but I also don't have a problem with bubbafying an ugly, torn up beater either.

To some purists here, just touching up the peeling shellac is sacrilege.:eek:

I second that!! I love the heritage . . . and love to shoot that gun even more!! When I got my first I thought I was done. My wife no longer knows how many I have . . . let's keep it that way . . .

MongooseV8
09-06-2010, 9:07 AM
OP now you need to get a Finnish M39 variant to ad to your collection