PDA

View Full Version : "Pre-ban AR-15s" in a "Post List CA"?


Fate
05-05-2006, 11:33 AM
Another ARookie post :rolleyes:

Looking to get a Stag upper to match my lower. Yet they say they don't sell "pre-ban" ARs to CA since they're "illegal."

I know that with a fixed mag, yadda yadda, it's not an AW. But say the lowers actually DO list. Is there any problem with having a "pre-ban" upper in a "post list/registered AW" situation?

Thanks.

You can all now return to the "list" nailbiting session. :D

shopkeep
05-05-2006, 11:37 AM
Another ARookie post :rolleyes:

Looking to get a Stag upper to match my lower. Yet they say they don't sell "pre-ban" ARs to CA since they're "illegal."

I know that with a fixed mag, yadda yadda, it's not an AW. But say the lowers actually DO list. Is there any problem with having a "pre-ban" upper in a "post list/registered AW" situation?

Thanks.

You can all now return to the "list" nailbiting session. :D

Because AWs and fixed magazine rifles in California are regulated by Federal law it is lawful to have unlimited evil features on them. Yes, a fixed mag off-list AR-15 in California is permitted more evil features than a detachable mag rifle in New York LOL :D!

Fate
05-05-2006, 11:39 AM
Yes, I understand that with fixed mags, a lot of evilness is allowed...:)

But what I wanted to know is after the list comes out (if ever) and the mags go unfixed...are there any problems having a "pre-ban" labelled rifle in CA?

DrjonesUSA
05-05-2006, 12:05 PM
Because AWs and fixed magazine rifles in California are regulated by Federal law it is lawful to have unlimited evil features on them. Yes, a fixed mag off-list AR-15 in California is permitted more evil features than a detachable mag rifle in New York LOL :D!


How are guns in the state regulated by Federal law? :confused:

bwiese
05-05-2006, 12:11 PM
OK guys, let's phrase this correctly.

"Preban uppers" generally refer to uppers that have a flash hider and/or a bayonet lug. The barrel is threaded for the flash hider, and the flash hider is only required to be pinned/welded if it's required to bring the bbl up to 16" in length to avoid NFA SBR issues.

The term "preban" had only FEDERAL applicability, which is not moot (sunset). CA AW concepts somewhat overlap occasionally but are distinct.
For example, bayonet lugs and threaded barrels have no significance to CA AW laws for rifles and are irrelevant.

In short, you can have a "preban upper" on:

an existing, registered CA assault weapon regardless of when mfgd;
an off-list lower with a fixed magazine;


You just CANNOT have a typical preban upper on a gripless off-list AR with detachable magazine, since even ONE evil features (pistol grip, flash hider, etc.) triggers the 12276.1 definition of assault weapon.

If you plan on running your off-list lower with a detachable magazine and no pistol grip than you should NOT have a flash hider as it's just as 'evil' as a pistol grip

Fate
05-05-2006, 12:21 PM
So am I correct to read this as saying ONCE registered as an AW (you know..like in 2 weeks ;) ) that there will be no problems with running a detachable mag, normally configured, flash-hidden, collapsable stocked, pistol gripped, "preban" upper?

DrjonesUSA
05-05-2006, 12:23 PM
So am I correct to read this as saying ONCE registered as an AW (you know..like in 2 weeks ;) ) that there will be no problems with running a detachable mag, normally configured, flash-hidden, collapsable stocked, pistol gripped, "preban" upper?


That depends.

The DOJ *could* create another tier of "assault weapon".

I'm not saying that this is legal or likely, but they could do it....they can do whatever they want, laws and Constitution be damned.

Don't bet your money on it.

bwiese
05-05-2006, 12:29 PM
So am I correct to read this as saying ONCE registered as an AW (you know..like in 2 weeks ;) ) that there will be no problems with running a detachable mag, normally configured, flash-hidden, collapsable stocked, pistol gripped, "preban" upper?

There is no crime listed in the penal code for adding, changing or deleting featured on legally-acquired, assault weapons that are registered to you.
The recently-pulled Feb 1 DOJ memo says otherwise, but that memo has no force of law and did not even have regulatory support, let alone any support in penal code. They may have other tricks up their sleeve, we'll see...

Remember, the only even remotely relevant charges for AW configuration are in PC 12280(a) - which includes manufacturing, illegal transport, illegal importation, etc., all felonies, and PC 12280(b), which is misdemeanor simple possession.

12280(a) manufacturing charges would not apply because the situation you describe involves an already-registered AW since the gun was legally possessed and acquired beforehand, before the DOJ itself made it cross the boundary into AW status. Other 12280(a) charges don't apply; 12280(b) unreg'd possession charges would not be applicable since, hey, it's already a registered AW!

We still dunno if they will or won't list. Some of their activities give indications that they might have to. But they could still keep fighting (like changing definition of detachable mag to affect fixed-mag builds).

For the time being, HOLD TIGHT. Even if/when listed and registered, HOLD TIGHT until you hear otherwise.