PDA

View Full Version : Rocker Ted Nugent pleads no contest to Northern California deer baiting


mecam
08-18-2010, 6:26 AM
http://www.insidebayarea.com/oaklandtribune/localnews/ci_15814786


Associated Press
Posted: 08/18/2010 06:40:44 AM PDT
Updated: 08/18/2010 06 31 AM PDT

MARYSVILLE -- Rocker and celebrity hunter Ted Nugent is facing a $1,750 fine after pleading no contest in Northern California to baiting a deer and not having a properly signed hunting tag.
California Department of Fish and Game spokesman Patrick Foy said game wardens saw Nugent kill an immature buck on a February episode of his Outdoor Channel TV show "Spirit of the Wild."
Investigators found that the deer had been eating bait called "C'mere Deer." Baiting wildlife is illegal in California.
Nugent originally faced 11 charges, including killing a deer too young to be hunted. In a deal with Yuba County prosecutors, attorney Jack Kopp entered no contest pleas Friday to the two misdemeanors on behalf of Nugent, who did not appear in court.
A Nugent spokeswoman did not immediately return messages left late Tuesday.

lewdogg21
08-18-2010, 6:52 AM
Very weak Ted.... Myeh....

PatriotnMore
08-18-2010, 6:57 AM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=332465

BigJim_610
08-18-2010, 7:25 AM
Rock star Ted Nugent, a 1970s guitar hero for hits including "Cat Scratch Fever," has recently created a successful second career as an advocate for hunting and outdoor ethics.

His television show, "Spirit of the Wild," is a four-time "Golden Moose" award winner on the Outdoor Channel. He has used his celebrity status to help promote better pay and working conditions for California game wardens, and consistently rails against poachers and other wildlife criminals.

So it was with a double take of disbelief that two California game wardens sat down in February to watch the show, and witnessed Nugent allegedly violate several California hunting laws.

The Feb. 9 episode showed Nugent killing a young male deer with bow and arrow near the El Dorado County town of Somerset.

The wardens were alarmed because the footage appeared to show Nugent killing a "spike" buck, or one whose antlers have not yet grown long enough to fork. Killing such a young deer is illegal in California.

It also appeared to show the deer feeding on a powdery material spread on the ground before it was shot.

The Department of Fish and Game launched an investigation, spokesman Patrick Foy said, which later revealed this material to be a commercial deer bait. It is illegal in California to hunt with bait.

"We looked at it and we just shook our heads, saying 'I can't believe he actually aired this episode,' " Foy said. "We were all really disappointed to see this happen with a guy who is a representative of hunters."

Nugent was later charged with 11 misdemeanors related to events that unfolded on his own television show, Foy said.

On Friday, following a plea deal with the Yuba County district attorney, Nugent pleaded no contest to two misdemeanors in Yuba Superior Court: illegally baiting a deer, and failing to have a deer tag signed by a government official after a kill.

Nugent did not appear in court. He was represented by Yuba City attorney Jack Kopp, who did not respond to a request for comment on Tuesday. The 61-year-old rocker, who lives in China Springs, Texas, was penalized with a $1,750 fine.

Attempts to reach Nugent and his business representatives Tuesday were unsuccessful.

The hunt occurred in September 2009 but was not broadcast until February. The charges were filed in Yuba County because Nugent was accompanied by a guide and cameraman on the hunt, and that is where they live.

The guide, Ross Albert Patterson, pleaded no contest to taking an animal illegally and was fined $1,225.

Foy said the investigation revealed that Nugent killed three deer on different occasions in El Dorado County using bait.

Nugent, long an outspoken defender of hunting and gun rights, has been a board member of the National Rifle Association for 15 years. Ironically, he wrote an opinion article on one of the association's websites in 2008 arguing that hunters send the wrong message when they constantly tout their ethics.

He said this "does nothing but cast a dark cloud over the entire hunting community as if 'ethical' is a rarity and must be emphasized. Ethical behavior is still expected where I live, work and play. There is no need to claim it."

Nugent's violations have caused an uproar in the hunting community. Baiting is a controversial practice, even in states where it is allowed under certain conditions.

As early as October, some observant hunters on an Internet forum suspected there was a problem when they noted a description of the hunt in question that appeared online. It included a commercial bait in the list of gear Nugent used.

"I've heard from a couple of our members about it, and they are, quite frankly, shocked," said Jim Lidberg, a board member of the California Deer Association, a hunting and conservation group. "I'm very disappointed in him. He's been a very strong advocate for hunters' rights and really looked up to by a lot of people."



Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2010/08/18/2965953/rocker-nugent-pleads-no-contest.html#ixzz0wyI5INYP

safewaysecurity
08-18-2010, 7:32 AM
I don't know what's wrong with bait hunting. Especially if you are hunting for meat and not a trophy or anything. If you need to eat it doesn't matter how you get the food as long as you get it. But most don't hunt for food these days so w/e..

scootergmc
08-18-2010, 7:34 AM
Yawn. Wish he would've poached some damn turkeys. Those things are becoming rats.

IGOTDIRT4U
08-18-2010, 7:34 AM
Bummer he got bad advice, and the baiting thing, eh, in some areas, it's a very grey area. Feeding stations are considered baiting in CA, depending on what warden drives by.

PatriotnMore
08-18-2010, 7:39 AM
I don't know what's wrong with bait hunting. Especially if you are hunting for meat and not a trophy or anything. If you need to eat it doesn't matter how you get the food as long as you get it. But most don't hunt for food these days so w/e..


Hunting over bait is an issue of ethics, now law. Someone decides, it's not ethical to draw game in and shoot it for food. Yet, there is no law concerning water sources. Personally, I am with Ted on the ethics issue, hunt with your own ethics, but leave the law out of it.

Oh and, http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=332465
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=332465

mzimmers
08-18-2010, 7:39 AM
On Friday, following a plea deal with the Yuba County district attorney, Nugent pleaded no contest to two misdemeanors in Yuba Superior Court: illegally baiting a deer, and failing to have a deer tag signed by a government official after a kill.

What?

I'm not a deer hunter; all I've gone after is pigs. Do I correctly understand that for deer, you have to get the tag signed *after* the harvest? For real?

devilinblack
08-18-2010, 7:41 AM
I used to get a kick out of watching him, but recently I saw him shoot a deer out one side of a blind with a handgun, then turn around and shoot one out the other side of the blind with a rifle. Real sporting there guy. That's real huntin' for ya!

Any more when I see him I just see the wild eyed lunatic that most of the public envisions when they think of gun owners and hunters.

IGOTDIRT4U
08-18-2010, 7:44 AM
What?

I'm not a deer hunter; all I've gone after is pigs. Do I correctly understand that for deer, you have to get the tag signed *after* the harvest? For real?

Yep. If it has a season, it needs a signed tag.

tankarian
08-18-2010, 7:44 AM
What?

I'm not a deer hunter; all I've gone after is pigs. Do I correctly understand that for deer, you have to get the tag signed *after* the harvest? For real?

Yes. You need to attach the tag to the carcass and have a public employee (firefighter, police, DFG worker, sheriff deputy) sign it.

Roadrunner
08-18-2010, 7:45 AM
I'm guessing either Uncle Ted won't be hunting in California anymore, or he will learn the hunting laws and not take advise from guides on what's legal and illegal. I'm sure he's pretty pissed off to say the least.

Roadrunner
08-18-2010, 7:46 AM
Yes. You need to attach the tag to the carcass and have a public employee (firefighter, police, DFG worker, sheriff deputy) sign it.

What about someone from parks and recreation ? :D

mzimmers
08-18-2010, 7:53 AM
Yes. You need to attach the tag to the carcass and have a public employee (firefighter, police, DFG worker, sheriff deputy) sign it.

So...how does one generally go about this? You shoot the deer, skin it and gut it, then on the way to the butcher, you make a side trip to the nearest LEO?

Anyway, sorry for the thread hijack. I'm just rather surprised at myself for not knowing this already. It seems like it could potentially be quite a hassle and risk spoiling some meat.

IGOTDIRT4U
08-18-2010, 7:54 AM
What about someone from parks and recreation ? :D

Sorry, actors from TV shows don't count. :p

IGOTDIRT4U
08-18-2010, 7:56 AM
So...how does one generally go about this? You shoot the deer, skin it and gut it, then on the way to the butcher, you make a side trip to the nearest LEO?

Anyway, sorry for the thread hijack. I'm just rather surprised at myself for not knowing this already. It seems like it could potentially be quite a hassle and risk spoiling some meat.

Well, that is how it works. Usually you can catch someone right away. And the meat should not spoil unless it is a real HOT day, if you pack it right.

I've seen elk being brought out by a single hunter in three, four trips, so if it something was to spoil, it would be the last possible 2 loads, right?

bsg
08-18-2010, 8:33 AM
i know Big Jake will be very upset over this; better not to tell him.... :eek:

tankarian
08-18-2010, 8:38 AM
So...how does one generally go about this? You shoot the deer, skin it and gut it, then on the way to the butcher, you make a side trip to the nearest LEO?



Pretty much so. You can also stop at the nearest Post Office, the post master can sign the tag too. It is unbelievable stupid I know, but that's how most laws in CA are.

Lucky Scott
08-18-2010, 8:50 AM
Ted probably took advice from the guide and the TV producer. The producer probably said, "We need a deer, right now, any deer"
And then guys started working on getting a deer. TV producers can be relentless.

So sad to see Ted get involved in something like this as I agree with most of what he says.

Red Devil
08-18-2010, 11:31 AM
I don't know what's wrong with bait hunting. Especially if you are hunting for meat and not a trophy or anything. If you need to eat it doesn't matter how you get the food as long as you get it. But most don't hunt for food these days so w/e..

There IS nothing wrong with baiting game.

There is a regulated hunting season to manage the health and population of the Game herds.

In the South, ...baiting is the norm, ...and a lot of folks feed their families all winter because of it.

The problem is that the Provence of Kalimexafornicatistan has made it illegal.

Yep... those sheeple that think that meat comes from Nature in a Styrofoam tray wrapped in cellophane...

...think that baiting is unfair, ...to the game.


Uncle Ted probably has as much trouble gettin' his head around that as I do.

Roadrunner
08-18-2010, 12:43 PM
My wife and I were just talking about this and something occurred to me as we were talking.

Ted Nugent's guide was unaware of the fact that baiting is illegal and so therefore he didn't inform his customer of this. Ted Nugent, not being a resident of California relied on his guides knowledge of the laws and it shows because Nugent aired footage of his apparent illegal activity on a nationwide program. In other words, Nugent was ignorant of the laws, but was prosecuted and convicted of his "crimes" nevertheless.

Now, lets parallel that with cops who violate laws and make illegal arrests and illegally confiscate property because they are ignorant of the law and think what their victims are doing is illegal. Does anyone see anything wrong with that?

Some classes of people are convicted regardless of their ignorance and some (government officials) simply lose a case and that's the extent of their punishment for committing a violation of the law against someone else who was deprived of their legal property, probably was deprived of their freedom because they were arrested and jailed, and lost a significant amount of money in the form of legal fees, all because of a government officials illegal behavior because s/he was ignorant of the law they are in fact paid to know.

jazman
08-18-2010, 12:51 PM
He is a jerk who should know better. No excuse.

Roadrunner
08-18-2010, 12:55 PM
He is a jerk who should know better. No excuse.

For a moment, let's put aside the fact that it's Ted Nugent. It could have been anyone about any innocent thing. That's my point.

Decoligny
08-18-2010, 1:02 PM
What?

I'm not a deer hunter; all I've gone after is pigs. Do I correctly understand that for deer, you have to get the tag signed *after* the harvest? For real?

That is to ensure that you don't take your "tagged" deer back to your garage, butcher it, stock the freezer, and then take the tag out for "round two".

Same system was used when I was stationed in Maine. You had to take your deer to a "tag station" where they would record the vital stats and your tag number, and then stamp your tag.

jazman
08-18-2010, 3:40 PM
"Rock star Ted Nugent...has recently created a successful second career as an advocate for hunting and outdoor ethics."
So he not only baits but kills a deer too young to kill. Idiot, did he think no one would notice? Just kind of spaced the fact he was being filmed for a TV show? Nice name too, Spirit of the Wild, yeah, that's the spirit.
He is a jerk and a hypocrite, and he has been his whole life. Kind of like him wearing military camo shirts and pants all the time now after cowardly ducking the draft during Viet Nam. I have zero respect or use for him and I think he does way more harm than good for gun owners and rights.

tuolumnejim
08-18-2010, 3:54 PM
I haven't been on a deer hunt in this State since the 70's, to many crazy flatlanders in the woods during the season.

PatriotnMore
08-18-2010, 4:03 PM
"Rock star Ted Nugent...has recently created a successful second career as an advocate for hunting and outdoor ethics."
So he not only baits but kills a deer too young to kill. Idiot, did he think no one would notice? Just kind of spaced the fact he was being filmed for a TV show? Nice name too, Spirit of the Wild, yeah, that's the spirit.
He is a jerk and a hypocrite, and he has been his whole life. Kind of like him wearing military camo shirts and pants all the time now after cowardly ducking the draft during Viet Nam. I have zero respect or use for him and I think he does way more harm than good for gun owners and rights.


Wait, where are you getting your information?


http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:kn5XfRJssyMJ:uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Ted_Nugent+ted+nugent+ducks+draft&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk
According to Wiki:

(http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:Ted_Nugent5.jpg) http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb21710/common/skins/common/blank.gif (http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:Ted_Nugent5.jpg)
Nugent serving his country in Da Nang


In 1969, Nugent was drafted into the United States army for service in the Vietnam War (http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Vietnam_War). Nugent was a brave and willing soldier, and was commended by his superiors for his valour and refusal to duck responsibility. However, the atrocities Nugent saw committed during his two years in Vietnam led him to recant the use of force as a means of settling dispute.

Roadrunner
08-18-2010, 4:07 PM
"Rock star Ted Nugent...has recently created a successful second career as an advocate for hunting and outdoor ethics."
So he not only baits but kills a deer too young to kill. Idiot, did he think no one would notice? Just kind of spaced the fact he was being filmed for a TV show? Nice name too, Spirit of the Wild, yeah, that's the spirit.
He is a jerk and a hypocrite, and he has been his whole life. Kind of like him wearing military camo shirts and pants all the time now after cowardly ducking the draft during Viet Nam. I have zero respect or use for him and I think he does way more harm than good for gun owners and rights.

Do you realize that in some states it's perfectly legal to take a dear with just a spike ? Louisiana is one of those states and we know that some states allow bait. As for his supposed draft dodging during Vietnam, if you're talking about his claim that he refused to shower and crapped himself to avoid the draft, then you are one of the many that's been had by the Nuge. :43:

CnCFunFactory
08-18-2010, 4:41 PM
oh god

dw33b
08-18-2010, 7:03 PM
If ya can't do the time, don't do the crime. I think Ted Nugent can afford the fine. Though I'm sure his guide's business is kaput.

xibunkrlilkidsx
08-18-2010, 7:12 PM
That is to ensure that you don't take your "tagged" deer back to your garage, butcher it, stock the freezer, and then take the tag out for "round two".

Same system was used when I was stationed in Maine. You had to take your deer to a "tag station" where they would record the vital stats and your tag number, and then stamp your tag.



?? they would record if the deer was dead when they inspected it?.?.?








vital stats meaning size,sex and such?

jaymz
08-18-2010, 7:33 PM
"Rock star Ted Nugent...has recently created a successful second career as an advocate for hunting and outdoor ethics."
So he not only baits but kills a deer too young to kill. Idiot, did he think no one would notice? Just kind of spaced the fact he was being filmed for a TV show? Nice name too, Spirit of the Wild, yeah, that's the spirit.
He is a jerk and a hypocrite, and he has been his whole life. Kind of like him wearing military camo shirts and pants all the time now after cowardly ducking the draft during Viet Nam. I have zero respect or use for him and I think he does way more harm than good for gun owners and rights.

No more media Kool-Aid for you!

BigDogatPlay
08-18-2010, 8:32 PM
Ted Nugent's guide was unaware of the fact that baiting is illegal and so therefore he didn't inform his customer of this.

While you make a good long stretch to get to a LEO bash, how would a guide who works in California not be aware of the fact that baiting game is illegal here?

And remain in business......

a1c
08-18-2010, 8:32 PM
The rules are pretty simple and everybody - including rock stars - should follow them.

I guess he should have taken the Hunter Ed classes like the rest of us.

jazman
08-18-2010, 8:33 PM
Wait, where are you getting your information?


http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:kn5XfRJssyMJ:uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Ted_Nugent+ted+nugent+ducks+draft&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk
According to Wiki:

(http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:Ted_Nugent5.jpg) http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb21710/common/skins/common/blank.gif (http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:Ted_Nugent5.jpg)
Nugent serving his country in Da Nang


In 1969, Nugent was drafted into the United States army for service in the Vietnam War (http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Vietnam_War). Nugent was a brave and willing soldier, and was commended by his superiors for his valour and refusal to duck responsibility. However, the atrocities Nugent saw committed during his two years in Vietnam led him to recant the use of force as a means of settling dispute.

Right. While there he won the Medal of Honor, twice, and this was all after he took that one small step for a man, but a larger one for mankind. That idiot Jane Fonda spent more time in Viet Nam than Ted Nugent. He was never in the Armed Forces and never served his country. He does wear the Army camo clothes though, so I suppose that is something for all the fanboys.

swat
08-18-2010, 8:58 PM
Ted never served in the military and took active steps to avoid the draft. The following excerpt is from wikipedia:
"Military
In 2006, an interviewer from the British newspaper The Independent questioned Nugent about a 1977 interview in High Times magazine in which Nugent allegedly detailed elaborate steps taken to avoid the Vietnam draft.[45]"

Falstaff
08-18-2010, 9:06 PM
wikipedia... the definitive resource


not

Ted never claimed veteran staus. He didnt dodge the draft he DID get a 4f deferement like these esteemed fellows:

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Basketball 16-Apr-1947 NBA records for most minutes, most points
Elliott Abrams Government 24-Jan-1948 Asst. Secy. of State involved in Iran-Contra
Lamar Alexander Politician 3-Jul-1940 US Senator from Tennessee
Muhammad Ali Boxing 17-Jan-1942 Floated like butterfly, stung like bee
Samuel Alito Judge 1-Apr-1950 US Supreme Court Justice
Wayne Allard Politician 2-Dec-1943 US Senator from Colorado, 1997-2009
George Allen Politician 8-Mar-1952 US Senator from Virginia, 2001-07
John Ashcroft Politician 9-May-1942 US Attorney General, 2001-05
Richard Axel Scientist 2-Jul-1946 Odorant receptors and olfactory organization
Gary Bauer Government 4-May-1946 Family Research Council
Bob Beauprez Politician 22-Sep-1948 Congressman from Colorado, 2003-07
William Bennett Government 31-Jul-1943 Former Drug Czar and gambling man
Don Black Activist 28-Jul-1953 Stormfront.org founder
Michael Bloomberg Politician 14-Feb-1942 Mayor of New York City
Roy Blunt Politician 10-Jan-1950 Congressman, Missouri 7th
Bill Bradley Politician 28-Jul-1943 US Senator from New Jersey, 1979-97
Phil Bredesen Politician 21-Nov-1943 Governor of Tennessee
L. Paul Bremer Government 30-Sep-1941 Director of the Iraq Provisional Authority
George W. Bush Head of State 6-Jul-1946 43rd US President, 2001-09
Richard Carpenter Musician 15-Oct-1946 The Carpenters
Saxby Chambliss Politician 10-Nov-1943 US Senator from Georgia
Dick Cheney Politician 30-Jan-1941 Dubya's VP, ex-CEO of Halliburton
Tom Clancy Novelist 12-Apr-1947 The Hunt for Red October
Bill Clinton Head of State 19-Aug-1946 42nd US President, 1993-2001
Norm Coleman Politician 17-Aug-1949 US Senator from Minnesota, 2003-09
Pete Coors Relative 20-Sep-1946 Coors scion
Howard Dean Politician 17-Nov-1948 Chairman of the Democratic Party
Tom DeLay Politician 8-Apr-1947 Indicted ex-House Majority Leader
Mike DeWine Politician 5-Jan-1947 US Senator from Ohio, 1995-2007
Brian J. Donnelly Politician 2-Mar-1946 Congressman from Massachusetts, 1979-93
Roy P. Dyson Politician 15-Nov-1948 Congressman from Maryland, 1981-91
David Eisenhower Author 31-Mar-1948 Camp David namesake
Daniel Ellsberg Government 7-Apr-1931 Pentagon Papers source
James Fallows Journalist 2-Aug-1949 Atlantic Monthly
Bobby Fischer Chess Player 9-Mar-1943 18-Jan-2008 Eccentric chess grandmaster
Steve Forbes Business 18-Jul-1947 Owner and publisher of Forbes magazine
Al Franken Politician 21-May-1951 US Senator from Minnesota
Bob Franks Politician 21-Sep-1951 Congressman from New Jersey, 1993-2001
Bill Frist Politician 22-Feb-1952 US Senate Majority Leader, 2003-07
Max Gail Actor 5-Apr-1943 Det. Wojciehowicz on Barney Miller
Dick Gephardt Politician 31-Jan-1941 Congressman from Missouri, 1977-2005
Newt Gingrich Politician 17-Jun-1943 Speaker of the House, 1995-99
Rudy Giuliani Politician 28-May-1944 Mayor of New York City, 1994-2001
Al Gore Politician 31-Mar-1948 US Vice President under Clinton
Phil Gramm Politician 8-Jul-1942 US Senator from Texas, 1985-2002
Lee Greenwood Country Musician 27-Oct-1942 God Bless the U.S.A.
Judd Gregg Politician 14-Feb-1947 US Senator from New Hampshire
Arlo Guthrie Singer/Songwriter 10-Jul-1947 Alice's Restaurant
George Hamilton Actor 12-Aug-1939 Well-tanned celebrity
Robert Hanssen Spy 18-Apr-1944 Russian mole inside the FBI
Dennis Hastert Politician 2-Jan-1942 Speaker of the House, 1999-2006
Roger Hedgecock Politician 2-May-1946 Mayor of San Diego, 1983-85
Douglas Hofstadter Author 15-Feb-1945 Godel, Escher, Bach
Brit Hume Journalist 22-Jun-1943 Fox News DC correspondent
John Irving Novelist 2-Mar-1942 The World According to Garp
Ted Kaczynski Criminal 22-May-1942 The Unabomber
Andy Kaufman Comic 17-Jan-1949 16-May-1984 Brilliant comic, prankster, professional wrestler
Bob Kerrey Politician 27-Aug-1943 Governor and Senator from Nebraska
Alan Keyes Radio Personality 7-Aug-1950 Illinois carpetbagger
Stephen King Novelist 21-Sep-1947 The Shining
Bruce Kovner Activist Feb-1945 Caxton Associates billionaire
Dennis Kucinich Politician 8-Oct-1946 Congressman, Ohio 10th
Ken Lay Business 15-Apr-1942 5-Jul-2006 CEO of Enron, 1986-2002
Ron Lewis Politician 14-Sep-1946 Congressman from Kentucky, 1994-2009
Lewis Libby Government 22-Aug-1950 Cheney's former Chief of Staff
Joseph Lieberman Politician 24-Feb-1942 US Senator from Connecticut
Rush Limbaugh Radio Personality 12-Jan-1951 Conservative talk show host
Trent Lott Politician 9-Oct-1941 US Senator from Mississippi, 1989-2007
Dan Lungren Politician 22-Sep-1946 Congressman, California 3rd
David Mamet Author 30-Nov-1947 Glengarry Glen Ross
Jim Marshall Politician 31-Mar-1948 Congressman, Georgia 3rd
Chris Matthews Talk Show Host 17-Dec-1945 Hardball with Chris Matthews
Mitch McConnell Politician 20-Feb-1942 US Senator from Kentucky
Michael Medved Critic Oct-1948 Traditional values pundit, film critic
Bob Metcalfe Business 1946 Co-Inventor of Ethernet
John Milius Film Director 11-Apr-1944 Conan the Barbarian
James C. Miller III Economist 25-Jun-1942 Conservative economist
Dan Moldea Journalist 27-Feb-1950 Muckraker
Joe Namath Football 31-May-1943 Football player and pantyhose wearer
Ted Nugent Musician 13-Dec-1948 Rock star, bowhunting enthusiast
Bill O'Reilly Talk Show Host 10-Sep-1949 The O'Reilly Factor
P. J. O'Rourke Author 14-Nov-1947 Political satirist
Bill Owens Politician 22-Oct-1950 Governor of Colorado
Gram Parsons Musician 5-Nov-1946 19-Sep-1973 Flying Burrito Brothers
George Pataki Politician 24-Jun-1945 Governor of New York, 1995-2006
John Perkins Activist 1945 Confessions of an Economic Hit Man
Dan Quayle Politician 4-Feb-1947 Vice President under George H.W. Bush
Marc Racicot Politician 24-Jul-1948 Governor of Montana, 1993-2001
Robert Reich Government 24-Jun-1946 US Secretary of Labor, 1993-97
Bill Richardson Politician 15-Nov-1947 Governor of New Mexico
Donald L. Ritter Politician 21-Oct-1940 Congressman from Pennsylvania, 1979-93
Dana Rohrabacher Politician 21-Jun-1947 Congressman, California 46th
Mitt Romney Politician 12-Mar-1947 Governor of Massachusetts, 2003-07
Karl Rove Government 25-Dec-1950 Political Strategist to George W. Bush
Robert Shapiro Attorney 2-Sep-1942 One of OJ Simpson's attorneys
Ron Silver Actor 2-Jul-1946 15-Mar-2009 Wiseguy
O. J. Simpson Football 9-Jul-1947 Searching tirelessly for the real killers
Richard E. Smalley Chemist 6-Jun-1943 28-Oct-2005 Co-Discovered first fullerine
David Souter Judge 17-Sep-1939 US Supreme Court Justice, 1990-2009
Bruce Springsteen Musician 23-Sep-1949 The Boss
Sylvester Stallone Actor 6-Jul-1946 Rocky, Rambo
Ken Starr Government 21-Jul-1946 Special Prosecutor, Clinton's impeachment
David Stockman Government 10-Nov-1946 Ronald Reagan's chief economist
John Stossel Journalist 6-Mar-1947 Libertarian reporter
Tom Tancredo Politician 20-Dec-1945 Congressman from Colorado, 1999-2009
John B. Taylor Economist 8-Dec-1946 Council of Economic Advisers, 1989-91
Clarence Thomas Judge 23-Jun-1948 US Supreme Court Justice
Garry Trudeau Cartoonist 21-Jul-1948 Doonesbury
Scott Turow Novelist 12-Apr-1949 Presumed Innocent
Steven Tyler Singer 26-Mar-1948 Frontman for Aerosmith
Mark Udall Politician 18-Jul-1950 US Senator from Colorado
Douglas A. Warner III Business 9-Jun-1946 CEO of JP Morgan, 1995-2000
Henry Waxman Politician 12-Sep-1939 Congressman, California 30th
Andrew Weil Author 8-Jun-1942 New age ethnopharmacologist
Bill Weld Politician 31-Jul-1945 Governor of Massachusetts, 1991-97
Curt Weldon Politician 22-Jul-1947 Congressman from Pennsylvania, 1987-2007
George Will Columnist 4-May-1941 Conservative pundit, baseball lover
Joseph Wilson Diplomat 6-Nov-1949 Ambassador to Gabon, Valerie Plame's husband
Paul Wolfowitz Government 22-Dec-1943 President of the World Bank, 2005-07
Steve Wozniak Computer Programmer 11-Aug-1950 Co-Founder of Apple Computer

Roadrunner
08-18-2010, 11:49 PM
While you make a good long stretch to get to a LEO bash, how would a guide who works in California not be aware of the fact that baiting game is illegal here?

And remain in business......

Please explain your accusation. I wasn't bashing anyone. I simply stated a well known fact. As for the guide, since I don't know him, I wouldn't know. However, I would ask you, how would police that work in California not know certain laws but arrest people anyway and remain employed as police officers ?

spectr17
08-19-2010, 1:53 AM
Ted never served in the military and took active steps to avoid the draft. The following excerpt is from wikipedia:
"Military
In 2006, an interviewer from the British newspaper The Independent questioned Nugent about a 1977 interview in High Times magazine in which Nugent allegedly detailed elaborate steps taken to avoid the Vietnam draft.[45]"

That interview was a riot. In it Ted said he quit taking showers like a week before his entrance exam. 3 days before the exam he started eating just potato chips and drank soda which made him break out with some bad acne. He also stopped going to bed. At the exam he fell asleep in the hearing exam booth and when they told him to drop em for his roid check his pants stuck to his azzz. :eek: There was a lot more I can't remember from the article too.

Imagine being that doc :D

E Pluribus Unum
08-19-2010, 2:22 AM
What?

I'm not a deer hunter; all I've gone after is pigs. Do I correctly understand that for deer, you have to get the tag signed *after* the harvest? For real?

Yes... you must have the deer validated to insure that the meat was taken from a legal deer. Then that validated tag is kept with the meat for the duration until it is consumed to prove that A) The meat belongs to a legally harvested deer, and that B) When it was harvested.

Barabas
08-19-2010, 7:54 AM
So...how does one generally go about this? You shoot the deer, skin it and gut it, then on the way to the butcher, you make a side trip to the nearest LEO?

Anyway, sorry for the thread hijack. I'm just rather surprised at myself for not knowing this already. It seems like it could potentially be quite a hassle and risk spoiling some meat.

In the area I've hunted, there are usually firemen stationed on the side of the main road out of the area in a big turnout during the entire season. Sometimes they'll have a truck parked perpendicular to the direction of travel with a huge sign on the side reading "Get your tags signed here!" They also solicit donations in exchange for taking a polaroid and posting it on the local bulletin board. Great bunch of guys, they've always got stories to tell.

Decoligny
08-19-2010, 8:17 AM
?? they would record if the deer was dead when they inspected it?.?.?








vital stats meaning size,sex and such?

Yes, they would get a count of how many deer were taken, the weight, estimated age, points on the antlers, and on doe day how many doe were taken.

RobG
08-19-2010, 8:25 AM
My wife and I were just talking about this and something occurred to me as we were talking.

Ted Nugent's guide was unaware of the fact that baiting is illegal and so therefore he didn't inform his customer of this. Ted Nugent, not being a resident of California relied on his guides knowledge of the laws and it shows because Nugent aired footage of his apparent illegal activity on a nationwide program. In other words, Nugent was ignorant of the laws, but was prosecuted and convicted of his "crimes" nevertheless.

Now, lets parallel that with cops who violate laws and make illegal arrests and illegally confiscate property because they are ignorant of the law and think what their victims are doing is illegal. Does anyone see anything wrong with that?

Some classes of people are convicted regardless of their ignorance and some (government officials) simply lose a case and that's the extent of their punishment for committing a violation of the law against someone else who was deprived of their legal property, probably was deprived of their freedom because they were arrested and jailed, and lost a significant amount of money in the form of legal fees, all because of a government officials illegal behavior because s/he was ignorant of the law they are in fact paid to know.

BS. Any guide would know. You just don't become a guide. You have to be licensed by the state and do some sort of testing/education to qualify. I am sure it was done to produce a show. Thats why IMO most "hunting" shows are total crap. Unethical sh*t to appease the sponsers.

Decoligny
08-19-2010, 8:32 AM
wikipedia... the definitive resource


not

Ted never claimed veteran staus. He didnt dodge the draft he DID get a 4f deferement like these esteemed fellows:

Muhammad Ali Boxing 17-Jan-1942 Floated like butterfly, stung like bee
George W. Bush Head of State 6-Jul-1946 43rd US President, 2001-09


Got a legitimate source for Ted's supposed 4F status? Link?

http://www.theofficialschoice.com/productimages/Penalty%20Flag%20Yellow%20Ball.jpg

BS FLAG THROWN!!!

Just four lines into your list I see your information is wrong. I know for a fact that "Cassius Clay" aka Muhammad Ali, did NOT get a 4F deferment. He got a 2N deferment as a conscientious objector. Went all the way to the Supreme Court to get it. (Clay, aka Ali, v. United States)
Big difference. Ali was willing to go to jail for his religious beliefs rather than going to war.

And this:
George W. Bush Head of State 6-Jul-1946 43rd US President, 2001-09

GW was not 4F. If he was 4F he never would have been in the National Guard.

http://www.tsl.state.tx.us/governors/modern/bush-p06.jpg

swat
08-19-2010, 8:51 AM
This is the citation for the wikipedia entry regarding Ted's efforts to avoid military service.

The Independent (London). May 28, 2006.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/ted-nugent-off-his-rocker-479556.html.

Ksmash01
08-19-2010, 9:11 AM
Got a legitimate source for Ted's supposed 4F status? Link?

http://www.theofficialschoice.com/productimages/Penalty%20Flag%20Yellow%20Ball.jpg

BS FLAG THROWN!!!

Just four lines into your list I see your information is wrong. I know for a fact that "Cassius Clay" aka Muhammad Ali, did NOT get a 4F deferment. He got a 2N deferment as a conscientious objector. Went all the way to the Supreme Court to get it. (Clay, aka Ali, v. United States)
Big difference. Ali was willing to go to jail for his religious beliefs rather than going to war.

And this:
George W. Bush Head of State 6-Jul-1946 43rd US President, 2001-09

GW was not 4F. If he was 4F he never would have been in the National Guard.

http://www.tsl.state.tx.us/governors/modern/bush-p06.jpg

I just searched "2N deferment" and got nothing. I searched "4F deferment" and got Ted, Cassius, George, etc.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I just want to know where you got your facts from, so I can look it up myself.

I watch Ted sometimes and wonder if he's programed by the Outdoor Channel to tout whatever agenda they espouse. By going 4F on purpose, as it seems, does that really make him the patriot he says he is?

When the question was brought up here, it just made me wonder a bit about the direction he's trying to take America, and if HE believes in it.

Decoligny
08-19-2010, 9:24 AM
This is the citation for the wikipedia entry regarding Ted's efforts to avoid military service.

The Independent (London). May 28, 2006.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/ted-nugent-off-his-rocker-479556.html.

Ted Nugent: "I had a 1Y [student deferment]. I enrolled at Oakland Community College."

Note: 1Y is actually "Qualified for military service only in time of national emergency (classification eliminated 10-Dec-1971)

Student deferment is 2S.

So, Ted Nugent enrolled in College to stay out of Vietnam, exactly like almost every single male over the age of 18 who could afford to go to college did.

In the interview, he clearly states that the "stories" about his crapping his pants, etc., were just made up.

Hardly enough to be considered a "Draft Dodger".

swat
08-19-2010, 9:26 AM
He has the rage, but he doesn't have the war record. At 18, he was called up to serve in Vietnam. "In 1977 you gave an interview to High Times [the cannabis user's journal of record] where you claimed you defecated in your clothes to avoid the draft."

("I got 30 days' notice of the physical," Nugent told them. "I ceased cleansing my body. Two weeks before the test I stopped eating food with nutritional value. A week before, I stopped going to the bathroom. I did it in my pants. My pants got crusted up.")

"I never **** my pants to get out of the draft," says Nugent, good-naturedly.

"You also told them you took crystal meth [methamphetamine, the highly destabilising drug sometimes described as poor man's crack] before the medical - as a result of which, and I quote: 'I got this big juicy 4F.'"

"Unbelievable. Meth," he replies, in a tone of deep sarcasm. "Yes, that's my drug of choice. You've got to realise that these interviewers would arrive with glazed eyes and I would make stories up. I never did crystal meth. And I never pooped my pants."

"But you did dodge the draft." "I had a 1Y [student deferment]. I enrolled at Oakland Community College."

"You said then that you wanted 'to teach the stupid bastards in the military a lesson'. I'd have thought you'd have loved the army. Guns. Travel. Danger." "Back then, I didn't even understand what World War II was."

"So basically," - I admit that I have, unaccountably, started to speak Nugent - "you didn't want to get your Michigan *** blown off in Vietnam." "Correct. I did not want to get my *** blown off in Vietnam."

"I know you do a lot of charity work for wounded veterans. Has it occurred to you that someone else may have died in Saigon because you didn't go?"

"Absolutely."

Nugent's name, as I am sure he's aware, appears, along with those of Cheney, Bush and many of their fellow Republicans, on a website called chickenhawks.com. It lists those who have evaded or abbreviated their own military service then, later in life, developed an appetite for war and machismo, either personally or by proxy.

"So has this made you..." "Certainly. Because I failed to serve in Vietnam, I feel an obligation now, to do everything I can to support those defending our freedom. Do I feel guilt and embarrassment? Yes."

"You missed your calling."

"I wish I'd understood how important America's fight against our enemies was. But did I go to Fallujah two years ago? Damn right I did. And was I in Afghanistan, manning a 50-calibre machine gun in a Chinook - ready to rock? Yes. Was I there for years? No. A couple of weeks. But I am not a coward."

Decoligny
08-19-2010, 9:34 AM
I just searched "2N deferment" and got nothing. I searched "4F deferment" and got Ted, Cassius, George, etc.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I just want to know where you got your facts from, so I can look it up myself.

I watch Ted sometimes and wonder if he's programed by the Outdoor Channel to tout whatever agenda they espouse. By going 4F on purpose, as it seems, does that really make him the patriot he says he is?

When the question was brought up here, it just made me wonder a bit about the direction he's trying to take America, and if HE believes in it.

Casius Clay - I got my knowledge from his life story.
I can cite the supreme court case here: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=403&invol=698

As far as GW Bush: http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=d560d3c72dba2b3206b195f82b3ddc72&rgn=div5&view=text&node=32:6.2.2.19.10&idno=32#32:6.2.2.19.10.0.8.18
Code of Federal Regulations Title 32, Chapter XVI, Sec. 1630.2

1630.44 Class 4-F: Registrant not acceptable for military service.
In Class 4-F shall be placed any registrant who is found by the Secretary of Defense, under applicable physical, mental or administrative standards, to be not acceptable for service in the Armed Forces; except that no such registrant whose further examination or re-examination is determined by the Secretary of Defense to be justified shall be placed in Class 4-F until such further examination has been accomplished and such registrant continues to be found not acceptable for military service.
[52 FR 24456, July 1, 1987]

So, someone who is 4F is unacceptable for ALL military service, and thus could not serve in The Texas Air National Guard for instance, like GW Bush did, therefore GW could NOT have been given a 4F classification.

Just finding some information at a random website does not make it accurate. If the information has RELIABLE source documentation to back it up, then OK. But what was posted was crap.

Mammoth
08-19-2010, 9:46 AM
Pretty much so. You can also stop at the nearest Post Office, the post master can sign the tag too. It is unbelievable stupid I know, but that's how most laws in CA are.

For that matter, the butcher can sign off too.

It's not just public employees. Read the rules.

Mammoth
08-19-2010, 9:51 AM
Yes... you must have the deer validated to insure that the meat was taken from a legal deer. Then that validated tag is kept with the meat for the duration until it is consumed to prove that A) The meat belongs to a legally harvested deer, and that B) When it was harvested.

Not until the meat is consumed, but for the remainder of the season for that tag and for 15 days after.

As evidenced by this thread, hunters have a responsibility to know the rules. This particular rule is printed right on the tags.

Chris M
08-19-2010, 10:03 AM
I don't know what's wrong with bait hunting. Especially if you are hunting for meat and not a trophy or anything. If you need to eat it doesn't matter how you get the food as long as you get it. But most don't hunt for food these days so w/e..

It's called Fair Chase & Ethics.

It's perfectly legal to shoot a 'sitting duck', but it's more ethical to take him in flight. The same can be applied to baiting. IMO, it's not fair chase, and it's not ethical - even though it may be legal in many places.

I've seen a few episodes of Spirit of the Wild, and I may agree with some of what Ted does, but there's a lot that I don't agree with. As far as TV Hunting personalities - I tend to agree mostly with Tred Barta, though I'll probably never personally take it to the extremes that he has. He can be a bit of a nut, but I like his ethics.

E Pluribus Unum
08-19-2010, 11:38 AM
Not until the meat is consumed, but for the remainder of the season for that tag and for 15 days after.

As evidenced by this thread, hunters have a responsibility to know the rules. This particular rule is printed right on the tags.

I keep it with the meat at all times... never know when someone might accuse you of poaching.

Droc101
08-19-2010, 11:48 AM
On a side note, he has a show tonight at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz CA. Who's going?

Droc101
08-19-2010, 11:49 AM
More game for us.

Amen.

RobG
08-19-2010, 11:59 AM
It's called Fair Chase & Ethics.

It's perfectly legal to shoot a 'sitting duck', but it's more ethical to take him in flight. The same can be applied to baiting. IMO, it's not fair chase, and it's not ethical - even though it may be legal in many places.

I've seen a few episodes of Spirit of the Wild, and I may agree with some of what Ted does, but there's a lot that I don't agree with. As far as TV Hunting personalities - I tend to agree mostly with Tred Barta, though I'll probably never personally take it to the extremes that he has. He can be a bit of a nut, but I like his ethics.

Tred? Have you seen his shows? His flings arrows at ranges he admits are out of his range but does so anyway in hopes of a hit. The guy is a tool.

Falstaff
08-19-2010, 1:56 PM
A draft deferment gives your (influential) family members time to arrange cushy NG gigs... Every name on that list got a deferement, some subsequently enlisted...some didnt...

Chris M
08-19-2010, 2:25 PM
Tred? Have you seen his shows? His flings arrows at ranges he admits are out of his range but does so anyway in hopes of a hit. The guy is a tool.

Notice I said I mostly agree with how he hunts. Nobody is perfect, and neither are their methods. Just because he occasionally takes a shot that is a bit out of his range, doesn't mean he's a tool. It means he made a mistake. Someone that baits illegally, and takes an illegal animal didn't just make a mistake.

UBFRAGD
08-19-2010, 3:14 PM
Cut slack for chrissakes. The guy is on the television every week railing about 2nd Amendment rights, and this forum is called calguns.

Unethical hunting of a too-small deer? Such a non-issue. At least for me. But then, I have regular dreams of shattering the tranquil peace of a hillside of deer with an M249. Thanks guys for all the info about hunting. Pretty interesting--classes, tags, checkout, etc, what a bunch of hoops for an activity I would essentially equate to setting rat traps.

Gryff
08-19-2010, 4:33 PM
I don't know what's wrong with bait hunting.

You've got a gun (or high-tech bow). The deer's got feet and a nose. If that isn't enough of an advantage for the hunter, they should pick a different hobby.

If you need the food to survive, then, yeah, you do what you have to. But if you can get food from, oh let's say "Safeway" before you'd starve to death, then baiting is a pretty pathetic thing to do.


His television show, "Spirit of the Wild," is a four-time "Golden Moose" award winner

Sorry, but that sounds like an award out of WKRP in Cincinnati. Something Les Nessman might have won a couple of times. :D

Gryff
08-19-2010, 4:51 PM
As far as GW Bush: http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=d560d3c72dba2b3206b195f82b3ddc72&rgn=div5&view=text&node=32:6.2.2.19.10&idno=32#32:6.2.2.19.10.0.8.18
Code of Federal Regulations Title 32, Chapter XVI, Sec. 1630.2

1630.44 Class 4-F: Registrant not acceptable for military service.
In Class 4-F shall be placed any registrant who is found by the Secretary of Defense, under applicable physical, mental or administrative standards, to be not acceptable for service in the Armed Forces; except that no such registrant whose further examination or re-examination is determined by the Secretary of Defense to be justified shall be placed in Class 4-F until such further examination has been accomplished and such registrant continues to be found not acceptable for military service.
[52 FR 24456, July 1, 1987]

So, someone who is 4F is unacceptable for ALL military service, and thus could not serve in The Texas Air National Guard for instance, like GW Bush did, therefore GW could NOT have been given a 4F classification.

Just finding some information at a random website does not make it accurate. If the information has RELIABLE source documentation to back it up, then OK. But what was posted was crap.

That list also included Al Gore, who served in the Army with an Engineer Brigade in Vietnam.

That list is suspect.

Ron-Solo
08-19-2010, 7:40 PM
My wife and I were just talking about this and something occurred to me as we were talking.

Ted Nugent's guide was unaware of the fact that baiting is illegal and so therefore he didn't inform his customer of this. Ted Nugent, not being a resident of California relied on his guides knowledge of the laws and it shows because Nugent aired footage of his apparent illegal activity on a nationwide program. In other words, Nugent was ignorant of the laws, but was prosecuted and convicted of his "crimes" nevertheless.

Now, lets parallel that with cops who violate laws and make illegal arrests and illegally confiscate property because they are ignorant of the law and think what their victims are doing is illegal. Does anyone see anything wrong with that?

Some classes of people are convicted regardless of their ignorance and some (government officials) simply lose a case and that's the extent of their punishment for committing a violation of the law against someone else who was deprived of their legal property, probably was deprived of their freedom because they were arrested and jailed, and lost a significant amount of money in the form of legal fees, all because of a government officials illegal behavior because s/he was ignorant of the law they are in fact paid to know.

I fail to understand why the highlighted section is relevant to this thread. It is just ANOTHER one of your efforts to vent YOUR dislike for law enforcement. Why don't you take it somewhere else and give it a rest for a while. This thread had pleasant, and sometimes passionate, debate on both sides of the opinion, and you have to turn it into your personal anti-LE agenda. It's getting old.

Guides are required to know the hunting laws, and so is anyone who obtains a hunting license and deer tags. The Fish & Game booklets that are available at any Big 5 or Walmart have this info in them, but most fail to read them, and get annoyed when they get caught violating the license requirements. It is time for people to take responsibility for their actions. When you make a mistake, you pay the piper, which is what Ted is doing by his "no contest" plea and fine.

RobG
08-19-2010, 8:28 PM
Notice I said I mostly agree with how he hunts. Nobody is perfect, and neither are their methods. Just because he occasionally takes a shot that is a bit out of his range, doesn't mean he's a tool. It means he made a mistake. Someone that baits illegally, and takes an illegal animal didn't just make a mistake.

When I used to bowhunt he was a frequent topic. And his questionable shot selection was more than occasional occurence.

Agreed on the second part. No excuses for that "oversight."


Sorry, but that sounds like an award out of WKRP in Cincinnati. Something Les Nessman might have won a couple of times:rofl2:

shasta2010
08-19-2010, 9:31 PM
Ted Nugent hunts more in one week than most people do in their lifetime. Everyone makes mistakes. If our laws werent so confusing and like a million pages long it wold be easier.

Seesm
08-19-2010, 9:53 PM
There is more to the story I am sure... Ted is a good guy... Some sort of mistake.

RobG
08-19-2010, 9:56 PM
Ted Nugent hunts more in one week than most people do in their lifetime. Everyone makes mistakes. If our laws werent so confusing and like a million pages long it would be easier.

Very likely but, that should be less of an excuse. Every state has game laws that every hunter is responsible for.

Roadrunner
08-20-2010, 6:19 AM
I fail to understand why the highlighted section is relevant to this thread. It is just ANOTHER one of your efforts to vent YOUR dislike for law enforcement. Why don't you take it somewhere else and give it a rest for a while. This thread had pleasant, and sometimes passionate, debate on both sides of the opinion, and you have to turn it into your personal anti-LE agenda. It's getting old.

Guides are required to know the hunting laws, and so is anyone who obtains a hunting license and deer tags. The Fish & Game booklets that are available at any Big 5 or Walmart have this info in them, but most fail to read them, and get annoyed when they get caught violating the license requirements. It is time for people to take responsibility for their actions. When you make a mistake, you pay the piper, which is what Ted is doing by his "no contest" plea and fine.

Are you freaking kidding me ? Cop bash ? You need to back off and regroup. This forum is replete with examples of cops doing things that aren't exactly above board, causing people a whole bunch of heartache only to have cases thrown out because everything that the person did was legal. I don't go off on cops as a norm, so I don't know what the heck you're talking about. But your oversensitivity to this issue is very telling. Do you have any skeletons in your closet that you would be willing to admit to ?

chuckdc
08-20-2010, 9:10 AM
wikipedia... the definitive resource


not

Ted never claimed veteran staus. He didnt dodge the draft he DID get a 4f deferement like these esteemed fellows:

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Basketball 16-Apr-1947 NBA records for most minutes, most points
Elliott Abrams Government 24-Jan-1948 Asst. Secy. of State involved in Iran-Contra
Lamar Alexander Politician 3-Jul-1940 US Senator from Tennessee
Muhammad Ali Boxing 17-Jan-1942 Floated like butterfly, stung like bee
Samuel Alito Judge 1-Apr-1950 US Supreme Court Justice
Wayne Allard Politician 2-Dec-1943 US Senator from Colorado, 1997-2009
George Allen Politician 8-Mar-1952 US Senator from Virginia, 2001-07
John Ashcroft Politician 9-May-1942 US Attorney General, 2001-05
Richard Axel Scientist 2-Jul-1946 Odorant receptors and olfactory organization
Gary Bauer Government 4-May-1946 Family Research Council
Bob Beauprez Politician 22-Sep-1948 Congressman from Colorado, 2003-07
William Bennett Government 31-Jul-1943 Former Drug Czar and gambling man
Don Black Activist 28-Jul-1953 Stormfront.org founder
Michael Bloomberg Politician 14-Feb-1942 Mayor of New York City
Roy Blunt Politician 10-Jan-1950 Congressman, Missouri 7th
Bill Bradley Politician 28-Jul-1943 US Senator from New Jersey, 1979-97
Phil Bredesen Politician 21-Nov-1943 Governor of Tennessee
L. Paul Bremer Government 30-Sep-1941 Director of the Iraq Provisional Authority
George W. Bush Head of State 6-Jul-1946 43rd US President, 2001-09
Richard Carpenter Musician 15-Oct-1946 The Carpenters
Saxby Chambliss Politician 10-Nov-1943 US Senator from Georgia
Dick Cheney Politician 30-Jan-1941 Dubya's VP, ex-CEO of Halliburton
Tom Clancy Novelist 12-Apr-1947 The Hunt for Red October
Bill Clinton Head of State 19-Aug-1946 42nd US President, 1993-2001
Norm Coleman Politician 17-Aug-1949 US Senator from Minnesota, 2003-09
Pete Coors Relative 20-Sep-1946 Coors scion
Howard Dean Politician 17-Nov-1948 Chairman of the Democratic Party
Tom DeLay Politician 8-Apr-1947 Indicted ex-House Majority Leader
Mike DeWine Politician 5-Jan-1947 US Senator from Ohio, 1995-2007
Brian J. Donnelly Politician 2-Mar-1946 Congressman from Massachusetts, 1979-93
Roy P. Dyson Politician 15-Nov-1948 Congressman from Maryland, 1981-91
David Eisenhower Author 31-Mar-1948 Camp David namesake
Daniel Ellsberg Government 7-Apr-1931 Pentagon Papers source
James Fallows Journalist 2-Aug-1949 Atlantic Monthly
Bobby Fischer Chess Player 9-Mar-1943 18-Jan-2008 Eccentric chess grandmaster
Steve Forbes Business 18-Jul-1947 Owner and publisher of Forbes magazine
Al Franken Politician 21-May-1951 US Senator from Minnesota
Bob Franks Politician 21-Sep-1951 Congressman from New Jersey, 1993-2001
Bill Frist Politician 22-Feb-1952 US Senate Majority Leader, 2003-07
Max Gail Actor 5-Apr-1943 Det. Wojciehowicz on Barney Miller
Dick Gephardt Politician 31-Jan-1941 Congressman from Missouri, 1977-2005
Newt Gingrich Politician 17-Jun-1943 Speaker of the House, 1995-99
Rudy Giuliani Politician 28-May-1944 Mayor of New York City, 1994-2001
Al Gore Politician 31-Mar-1948 US Vice President under Clinton
Phil Gramm Politician 8-Jul-1942 US Senator from Texas, 1985-2002
Lee Greenwood Country Musician 27-Oct-1942 God Bless the U.S.A.
Judd Gregg Politician 14-Feb-1947 US Senator from New Hampshire
Arlo Guthrie Singer/Songwriter 10-Jul-1947 Alice's Restaurant
George Hamilton Actor 12-Aug-1939 Well-tanned celebrity
Robert Hanssen Spy 18-Apr-1944 Russian mole inside the FBI
Dennis Hastert Politician 2-Jan-1942 Speaker of the House, 1999-2006
Roger Hedgecock Politician 2-May-1946 Mayor of San Diego, 1983-85
Douglas Hofstadter Author 15-Feb-1945 Godel, Escher, Bach
Brit Hume Journalist 22-Jun-1943 Fox News DC correspondent
John Irving Novelist 2-Mar-1942 The World According to Garp
Ted Kaczynski Criminal 22-May-1942 The Unabomber
Andy Kaufman Comic 17-Jan-1949 16-May-1984 Brilliant comic, prankster, professional wrestler
Bob Kerrey Politician 27-Aug-1943 Governor and Senator from Nebraska
Alan Keyes Radio Personality 7-Aug-1950 Illinois carpetbagger
Stephen King Novelist 21-Sep-1947 The Shining
Bruce Kovner Activist Feb-1945 Caxton Associates billionaire
Dennis Kucinich Politician 8-Oct-1946 Congressman, Ohio 10th
Ken Lay Business 15-Apr-1942 5-Jul-2006 CEO of Enron, 1986-2002
Ron Lewis Politician 14-Sep-1946 Congressman from Kentucky, 1994-2009
Lewis Libby Government 22-Aug-1950 Cheney's former Chief of Staff
Joseph Lieberman Politician 24-Feb-1942 US Senator from Connecticut
Rush Limbaugh Radio Personality 12-Jan-1951 Conservative talk show host
Trent Lott Politician 9-Oct-1941 US Senator from Mississippi, 1989-2007
Dan Lungren Politician 22-Sep-1946 Congressman, California 3rd
David Mamet Author 30-Nov-1947 Glengarry Glen Ross
Jim Marshall Politician 31-Mar-1948 Congressman, Georgia 3rd
Chris Matthews Talk Show Host 17-Dec-1945 Hardball with Chris Matthews
Mitch McConnell Politician 20-Feb-1942 US Senator from Kentucky
Michael Medved Critic Oct-1948 Traditional values pundit, film critic
Bob Metcalfe Business 1946 Co-Inventor of Ethernet
John Milius Film Director 11-Apr-1944 Conan the Barbarian
James C. Miller III Economist 25-Jun-1942 Conservative economist
Dan Moldea Journalist 27-Feb-1950 Muckraker
Joe Namath Football 31-May-1943 Football player and pantyhose wearer
Ted Nugent Musician 13-Dec-1948 Rock star, bowhunting enthusiast
Bill O'Reilly Talk Show Host 10-Sep-1949 The O'Reilly Factor
P. J. O'Rourke Author 14-Nov-1947 Political satirist
Bill Owens Politician 22-Oct-1950 Governor of Colorado
Gram Parsons Musician 5-Nov-1946 19-Sep-1973 Flying Burrito Brothers
George Pataki Politician 24-Jun-1945 Governor of New York, 1995-2006
John Perkins Activist 1945 Confessions of an Economic Hit Man
Dan Quayle Politician 4-Feb-1947 Vice President under George H.W. Bush
Marc Racicot Politician 24-Jul-1948 Governor of Montana, 1993-2001
Robert Reich Government 24-Jun-1946 US Secretary of Labor, 1993-97
Bill Richardson Politician 15-Nov-1947 Governor of New Mexico
Donald L. Ritter Politician 21-Oct-1940 Congressman from Pennsylvania, 1979-93
Dana Rohrabacher Politician 21-Jun-1947 Congressman, California 46th
Mitt Romney Politician 12-Mar-1947 Governor of Massachusetts, 2003-07
Karl Rove Government 25-Dec-1950 Political Strategist to George W. Bush
Robert Shapiro Attorney 2-Sep-1942 One of OJ Simpson's attorneys
Ron Silver Actor 2-Jul-1946 15-Mar-2009 Wiseguy
O. J. Simpson Football 9-Jul-1947 Searching tirelessly for the real killers
Richard E. Smalley Chemist 6-Jun-1943 28-Oct-2005 Co-Discovered first fullerine
David Souter Judge 17-Sep-1939 US Supreme Court Justice, 1990-2009
Bruce Springsteen Musician 23-Sep-1949 The Boss
Sylvester Stallone Actor 6-Jul-1946 Rocky, Rambo
Ken Starr Government 21-Jul-1946 Special Prosecutor, Clinton's impeachment
David Stockman Government 10-Nov-1946 Ronald Reagan's chief economist
John Stossel Journalist 6-Mar-1947 Libertarian reporter
Tom Tancredo Politician 20-Dec-1945 Congressman from Colorado, 1999-2009
John B. Taylor Economist 8-Dec-1946 Council of Economic Advisers, 1989-91
Clarence Thomas Judge 23-Jun-1948 US Supreme Court Justice
Garry Trudeau Cartoonist 21-Jul-1948 Doonesbury
Scott Turow Novelist 12-Apr-1949 Presumed Innocent
Steven Tyler Singer 26-Mar-1948 Frontman for Aerosmith
Mark Udall Politician 18-Jul-1950 US Senator from Colorado
Douglas A. Warner III Business 9-Jun-1946 CEO of JP Morgan, 1995-2000
Henry Waxman Politician 12-Sep-1939 Congressman, California 30th
Andrew Weil Author 8-Jun-1942 New age ethnopharmacologist
Bill Weld Politician 31-Jul-1945 Governor of Massachusetts, 1991-97
Curt Weldon Politician 22-Jul-1947 Congressman from Pennsylvania, 1987-2007
George Will Columnist 4-May-1941 Conservative pundit, baseball lover
Joseph Wilson Diplomat 6-Nov-1949 Ambassador to Gabon, Valerie Plame's husband
Paul Wolfowitz Government 22-Dec-1943 President of the World Bank, 2005-07
Steve Wozniak Computer Programmer 11-Aug-1950 Co-Founder of Apple Computer

Plenty of FUD there.

GWBush was NOT 4-F.. he could not have been an F-102 pilot as such,.

Muhammad Ali, born Cassius Clay was not 4-F, he was an objector and served prison time for refusing to serve in the Army

Dick Cheney had college deferments rather than being rated 4-F.

Tom Clancy was in the ROTC, and trained in a tank unit in the Army during his summers in college, until his eyesight went bad and he was cut loose (ever seen the coke-bottle-bottoms he wears??)


Clinton was not a 4-F, he had a low number, went to England under a Rhodes Scholarship, then came back and apparently got a new, higher number.


Al Gore actually served in Viet Nam and was photographed staring down the barrel of his M-16 while doing so. He was some sort of journalist there,.

Dan Quayle served in the Indiana National Guard.


I think some folks need to get their facts straight.

Ron-Solo
08-20-2010, 9:45 AM
Are you freaking kidding me ? Cop bash ? You need to back off and regroup. This forum is replete with examples of cops doing things that aren't exactly above board, causing people a whole bunch of heartache only to have cases thrown out because everything that the person did was legal. I don't go off on cops as a norm, so I don't know what the heck you're talking about. But your oversensitivity to this issue is very telling. Do you have any skeletons in your closet that you would be willing to admit to ?

As I said, your highlighted comments have no relevance to this thread. Period.

Roadrunner
08-20-2010, 11:47 AM
As I said, your highlighted comments have no relevance to this thread. Period.

They are very relevant to this thread. A friend of mine who worked for Fish and Game arrested some L.A. Co deputies about 20 years ago for spearing Lobsters. They claimed that they speared them in Mexico and expected to be cut loose. According to him, those cops had the worst attitude of anyone he ever arrested for breaking the Law. He said he might of just let them go with a ticket had it not been for the fact that they had about 50 lobsters and they were all speared. From what he told me, cops have this nasty knack for breaking the law when it comes to hunting and fishing. And then, according to him, they typically badge him, negotiate with him, and then attempt to shame him to get out of getting a ticket. As for the illegal arrests and illegal confiscation, it's the same thing. Just like those cops from San Luis Obispo. So spare me your indignation. That's my perception of this, and perception is everything.

Ron-Solo
08-20-2010, 12:55 PM
They are very relevant to this thread. A friend of mine who worked for Fish and Game arrested some L.A. Co deputies about 20 years ago for spearing Lobsters. They claimed that they speared them in Mexico and expected to be cut loose. According to him, those cops had the worst attitude of anyone he ever arrested for breaking the Law. He said he might of just let them go with a ticket had it not been for the fact that they had about 50 lobsters and they were all speared. From what he told me, cops have this nasty knack for breaking the law when it comes to hunting and fishing. And then, according to him, they typically badge him, negotiate with him, and then attempt to shame him to get out of getting a ticket. As for the illegal arrests and illegal confiscation, it's the same thing. Just like those cops from San Luis Obispo. So spare me your indignation. That's my perception of this, and perception is everything.

It has nothing to do with Ted Nugent violating F&G rules. And you bring up a 20 year old war story from a friend. :rolleyes: Give it a rest.

My perception is that a majority of your posts have an anti-LE slant to them, and to quote you, "perception is everything." You sound like sour grapes most of the time.

Roadrunner
08-20-2010, 3:17 PM
It has nothing to do with Ted Nugent violating F&G rules. And you bring up a 20 year old war story from a friend. :rolleyes: Give it a rest.

My perception is that a majority of your posts have an anti-LE slant to them, and to quote you, "perception is everything." You sound like sour grapes most of the time.

If you really believe that, I'd suggest you go through ALL of my posts and and then tell me that a majority of my posts are anti LE. Until then your opinion is worthless to me. Go and TROLL someone else.

EDIT: Oh and stop drinking your own Kool Aid. You sound like a drunken fool.

Kestryll
08-20-2010, 3:52 PM
BOTH OF YOU GIVE IT A REST!

ar15barrels
08-20-2010, 3:59 PM
My Ted Nugent's guide was unaware of the fact that baiting is illegal and so therefore he didn't inform his customer of this. Ted Nugent, not being a resident of California relied on his guides knowledge of the laws and it shows because Nugent aired footage of his apparent illegal activity on a nationwide program. In other words, Nugent was ignorant of the laws, but was prosecuted and convicted of his "crimes" nevertheless.

Ignorance is not a valid excuse to break a law.
Good law, bad law, does not matter.
Ignorance is not an excuse.

BigJB
08-20-2010, 4:02 PM
So...how does one generally go about this? You shoot the deer, skin it and gut it, then on the way to the butcher, you make a side trip to the nearest LEO?

Anyway, sorry for the thread hijack. I'm just rather surprised at myself for not knowing this already. It seems like it could potentially be quite a hassle and risk spoiling some meat.

Butchers are one of many people who can validate a tag. Post office, fire dept, LEO, etc etc

BigJB
08-20-2010, 4:05 PM
Ignorance is not a valid excuse to break a law.
Good law, bad law, does not matter.
Ignorance is not an excuse.

Yep

Nuge made the mistake of relying on his guide and producer to keep him within the law. As the hunter, he owed it to himself and all of us to read and obey the laws himself. He likes to monologue on "The SPirit of the WIld" go on and about respecting nature, yet he shows little regard to insure quick painless deaths for his prey. I give half a fart about the sport, but I always try my hardest to make sure whatever food I am killing dies ASAP, without stress or fear.

OneFunGuy
08-20-2010, 4:17 PM
"Uncle Ted" is outspoken on his views of hippies, guns and substance abuse.
He is 110 percent American. Typical Ted, "You invade my home, I will kill you,
no home invasion, nobody gets hurt ... it's that simple".

He lives in Waco Texas, seems he may have been mislead by the TV crew,
though he pleaded no contest.

http://www.arrested.com/mugs/ted_nugent.html

tommy

SimpleCountryActuary
08-20-2010, 7:03 PM
Very likely but, that should be less of an excuse. Every state has game laws that every hunter is responsible for.

I agree.

There are a number of hunting laws that are pretty much chicken****, such as some States that limit the number of shotgun shells a shotgun can have in the magazine (requiring these stupid wooden plugs) and ditto with the number of rounds in rifle magazines. Somebody inhaled the notion that fairness had something to do with hunting but, doggone it, five round M1A mags are too darn hard to eject.

However, game management is a legitimate function of the State since without that there could soon be nothing but jackrabbits and squirrels to hunt. Squirrel steaks on the Barbie just would not be the same. Tags are necessary. Letting youngsters grow up before becoming BBQ is necessary.

So take the hunting education courses in what ever State you are going to hunt in and follow the rules. Or hire a guide and follow his rules. Or organize and fight to change the laws. Which leads us back to ... Calguns!

Best!

Roadrunner
08-20-2010, 8:24 PM
Ignorance is not a valid excuse to break a law.
Good law, bad law, does not matter.
Ignorance is not an excuse.

Yep, you're right. It would seem like the smart thing for someone that lives outside of California to do is avoid California all together. You never know what obscure law you might violate that you may have missed. I mean even the professionals that are paid to know the law seem to not get it right all of the time because their are so many. At least that's the excuse that's used.