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dachan
08-16-2010, 5:45 PM
Alot of sellers won't ship firearms to CA, but I just tried to puchase a "S&W MIL-SPEC TELE-SCOPING STOCK (stock only, no tube) the stock is embossed with a S&W logo" on GlockTalk. Made payment over the weekend and was just refunded because the seller couldn't determine if it was legal to send it. He was very kind about it, but this is just absurd.
i was addressing the box for shipping and just noticed it is to calif. i read a bunch of articles pertaining to Calif. laws and collapsing stocks, and assault rifles, etc. and it is totally confusing to me if my selling and shipping the butt stock only without the tube is legal...so i'm refunding your money...it's just not worth running afoul of a law i am not clear about for $30.00.

BigJB
08-16-2010, 5:49 PM
Lots of FUD about sales to Cal. People take it seriously, would rather not have to be law experts to make a $30 sale.

kmca
08-16-2010, 6:25 PM
Can't say as I'd blame an individual....big internet stores however, is another story :rolleyes:

OneSevenDeuce
08-16-2010, 6:28 PM
This shows that the antis strategy of just making guns and gun parts too much of a pain to own has served them well. They can get away with saying that they support the 2A with reasonable restrictions when what they are really doing is just making the average person say "screw it, it's too much of a hassle to buy a gun." And the average out of state seller say "Screw it, it's too much of a hassle to sell to Californians."

dieselpower
08-16-2010, 6:31 PM
You could have sent him 1 link to clear things up. Link here.

or

you could have sent him a link to 10% or any other CA seller.

IRONWILL
08-16-2010, 6:33 PM
just had a seller refuse to sell me a lrb M25 he knew it was legal item here but said screw u because I live in CA. his ad said nothing about not selling to ca, also this was on another gun site
I emailed him and said I will take it & his emails are below

"Hi William,

Photos are attached.

Please tell me what state you are in, I cannot sell to certain states, such as California.

Brian"

I ask why no sales to ca and siad m14 types are legal

"
Sorry, no California sales.

The 'why' is well known by gun owners across the country. Your state passes a new gun law every five minutes and I have no interest in getting harassed by some pinhead jerkoff anti-gun bureaucrat looking to make a name for himself with his department by screwing with legitimate gun owners.

Take care,

Brian"


I told him he was just helping the anti gunners buy not selling to me and my ffl was ready to email a copy of his ffl to start the trans in hopes he would sell the receiver

Here is what he said

"If you want to get a better reception from gun owners in other states, you and your fellow Californians must take the first step at the ballot box. Elect more pro-gun candidates this November and every election thereafter, more Tom McClintocks, fewer Barbara Boxers. Your state's population can complain about how the rest of the country treats you, or you can make changes in Sacramento that will make your own lives better.

Or you can move out of that state that respects gun rights, where the local government does not use the phrases 'gun owner' and 'nazi' interchangeably.

It's your choice. Good luck.

Brian"

I emailed back that moving from CA is just running away etc

no sale

thunderbolt
08-16-2010, 7:08 PM
You know that's something that always confuses and infuriates me. When guys from out of state tell you so flippantly to move out of California. As if it were so easy. Sure thing pal, I'm going to quit my job, find another one with equal pay tomorrow(impossible), sell my house (even more impossible), uproot my family, and incure thousands in moving expenses just so I can buy your POS whatever. And just where you suggest I go? Your corner of BFE where you can't even get a freakin pizza delivered just so you can complain to your friends in your local crap-hole bar about all those dang Californians movin in. @^%&^(*# you!!

And if voting really worked in this state no amount of Federal Judges would make a difference.

salazar44
08-16-2010, 7:13 PM
he probably found another buyer for more money... cuz you cant be that lame!

dachan
08-16-2010, 8:28 PM
Calguns comes through again, just purchased the same item from another member. Got what I was looking for and kept the money in the community.

Though I still can't believe we have people out there scared to ship a chunk of molded plastic to CA. I mean I've personally transfered at least a thousand AR and AK type rifles in the last two years with my license, but couldn't purchase a stock from out of state private party in this case. I sent the seller the link to this thread, hopefully he follows it and learns something.

rubber duckie
08-16-2010, 8:45 PM
i'm sure their are plenty of us on here that wanted curtain legal parts but seller will not ship thinking its against the law. its not just the private party sales, but big name companies too. o well , im not sure about everyone else, but i always seem to find some place else to get my parts from.

SJgunguy24
08-16-2010, 9:12 PM
When anybody says "Just move." My reply is usually "Why? Why should I move and let them win, they are wrong and you are wrong for supporting them."

What really sucks is now that everything has slowed down and there isn't6 as much money, some vendors have changed their tune and policies towards Ca.
I called Atlantic Arms a couple of years ago to inquire about a couple of Saiga's. When I told them where I lived, I was told to move and hung up on. That was rude, uncalled for and complete B.S. IMO. Now they come here (CGN) because they want to help in getting us what they need? FAIL, I like to support CA friendly vendors or find what I need from a CA based manufacturer

motorhead
08-17-2010, 7:52 AM
there's a longstanding myth that folding stocks are illegal here. even big outfits (CTD) have bought into this and by doing so, reinforced it. few want to discuss the reality of the issue because it would ultimately result in their having to admit they were wrong. the best solution, as you found, is to vote with your feet and your wallet. chin up, it is improving.

thrillhouse700
08-17-2010, 8:10 AM
just had a seller refuse to sell me a lrb M25 he knew it was legal item here but said screw u because I live in CA. his ad said nothing about not selling to ca, also this was on another gun site
I emailed him and said I will take it & his emails are below

"Hi William,

Photos are attached.

Please tell me what state you are in, I cannot sell to certain states, such as California.

Brian"

I ask why no sales to ca and siad m14 types are legal

"
Sorry, no California sales.

The 'why' is well known by gun owners across the country. Your state passes a new gun law every five minutes and I have no interest in getting harassed by some pinhead jerkoff anti-gun bureaucrat looking to make a name for himself with his department by screwing with legitimate gun owners.

Take care,

Brian"


I told him he was just helping the anti gunners buy not selling to me and my ffl was ready to email a copy of his ffl to start the trans in hopes he would sell the receiver

Here is what he said

"If you want to get a better reception from gun owners in other states, you and your fellow Californians must take the first step at the ballot box. Elect more pro-gun candidates this November and every election thereafter, more Tom McClintocks, fewer Barbara Boxers. Your state's population can complain about how the rest of the country treats you, or you can make changes in Sacramento that will make your own lives better.

Or you can move out of that state that respects gun rights, where the local government does not use the phrases 'gun owner' and 'nazi' interchangeably.

It's your choice. Good luck.

Brian"

I emailed back that moving from CA is just running away etc

no sale

I agree with this guy. I may get flamed for saying that, but lets be honest how many of your friends actually voted last time? I am pretty sure I was the only one out of mine. People are quick to complain but won't take the time to educate themselves and vote. The rest in CA are sheep voters.

OneSevenDeuce
08-17-2010, 8:13 AM
I agree with this guy. I may get flamed for saying that, but lets be honest how many of your friends actually voted last time? I am pretty sure I was the only one out of mine. People are quick to complain but won't take the time to educate themselves and vote. The rest in CA are sheep voters.

It's not that simple. It never is. How many of my friends voted? All of them. The only problem with that logic is that other people vote too, and they might not agree with us. It's a pretty pathetic excuse to justify screwing over California gun owners. The implication is that we are lazy or inactive in our government and politics. Gun owners are more politically active than any other group of people I know.

bsg
08-17-2010, 8:24 AM
californians are frequently perceived as a different and separate breed from the "outside world." that is partially why it is so important for Calgunners to remain united; to be tolerant of our differences and embrace our similarities.

Capt. Speirs
08-17-2010, 8:26 AM
The problem is that; "Sheeple" are allowed to vote.

Rekrab
08-17-2010, 8:31 AM
I've been going insane trying to track down a few pistols on Gunbroker. This is my favorite insane advertisement I've seen so far:


ATTENTION: IF YOU RESIDE IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, DO NOT BID ON THIS AUCTION. YOUR BID WILL NOT BE HONORED.

EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, ADAMS GUN EMPORIUM, LLC HAS CEASED DELIVERY OF ALL FIREARMS, FIREARMS PARTS AND AMMUNITION TO ALL POLICE DEPARTMENTS, POLICE OFFICERS AND RESIDENTS OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. UNTIL SUCH TIME AS THE RESIDENTS OF, WHAT HAS BECOME THE PEOPLES REPUBLIK of KALIFORNIA, BECOME ANGRY ENOUGH, AND GROW ENOUGH COURAGE, TO REMOVE FROM OFFICE THE SOCIALIST POLITICIANS WHO PASSED SECTIONS 12072(F)(1) & 12083(C)(1) OF THE CALIFORNIA PENAL CODE INTO LAW AND THE GOVERNATOR WHO ALLOWED IT TO BECOME LAW, I SHALL NOT HONOR ANY FURTHER BIDS FROM THE RESIDENTS OF THE PEOPLES REPUBLIK of KALIFORNIA. THIS SHALL ALSO APPLY TO CURIO & RELICS (03) FIREARMS AND LICENSEES AND INCLUDE ANTIQUE FIREARMS AS WELL. NO EXCEPTIONS WILL BE MADE.

I BELIEVE THAT THESE LAWS VIOLATE BOTH THE COMMERCE AND EQUAL PROTECTION CLAUSES OF THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION, AND ARE CLEARLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL. I REFUSE TO BE KALIFORNIKATED BY YOUR SOCIALIST POLITICAL HACKS. DON'T LIKE MY ATTITUDE, THEN GET BUSY RAISIN' H__L WITH THE SOCIALIST BENT POLITICAL TRAITORS WHO HAVE VIOLATED THEIR OATH OF OFFICE TO PROTECT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THESE UNITED STATES, AND WHO VOTED FOR THIS UNCONSTITUTIONAL SET OF LAWS. INSIST, AS IS YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES, AND IN THE STRONGEST TERMS, THAT THEY REPEAL THESE ABOMINABLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL STATUTES BEFORE IT BECOMES NECESSARY FOR THE GOOD CITIZENS OF CALIFORNIA TO DO SO BY FORCE OF ARMS. TO DO LESS, CONSTITUTES MORAL COWARDICE IN THE FACE OF SOCIALIST OPPRESSION.

So, I popped him a little e-mail, it went like this:



I thought you might be interested to know that not only are we raising hell
in California, but we're also very committed to the 2nd Amendment and the
Constitution. However, every seller that refuses to do business with us is
a blow to our fight. Our laws are not that hard to figure out, there are
plenty of Californians, myself included, who would be happy to help you
understand them so that you can open up your business to the massive number
of gun owners in the state.

If you're interested in learning more about California gun laws and our
very successful campaign for our constitutional rights you can learn more
from the Calguns Foundation here:
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Main_Page or visit us at
www.Calguns.net for discussion. In this time of rampant government growth
and abuse, all Americans need to join together and fight together for our
rights. The country looks to California has a progressive state and seeks
to emulate our laws. Helping us fight helps the whole of the country.

Thank you, and good luck with your business.


And then his equally insane response:

I AM AN FFL, AND I AM WELL ACQUAINTED WITH THE CALIFORNIA STATUTES. I DON'T NEED ANY HELP IN UNDERSTANDING YOUR FIREARMS LAWS.

FURTHER, I WILL NOT SHIP ANY FIREARMS INTO YOUR STATE UNTIL THE CONSTITUTIONALLY OFFENSIVE STATUTES CITED IN THE PREAMBLE TO MY GUNBROKER LISTINGS ARE REPEALED IN TOTAL.

I WILL NOT REGISTER MY INDIANA BASED BUSINESS WITH THE PEOPLES REPUBLICK OF KALIFORNIA. THIS IS A CLEAR VIOLATION OF THE INTERSTATE COMMERCE CLAUSE OF THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION.

I WILL NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES WHATSOEVER, BEG PRIOR PERMISSION FROM THE PEOPLES REPUBLICK OF KALIFORNIA DOJ TO SHIP FIREARMS TO ANOTHER FEDERALLY LICENSED DEALER WHO HAS THE MISFORTUNE TO BE DOING BUSINESS THEREIN. SINCE THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT THAT THE KALIFORNIA BASED DEALER BE REQUIRED TO BEG SIMILAR PERMISSION FROM THE STATE OF INDIANA, OR ANY OTHER STATE FOR THAT MATTER, THIS IS ALSO A CLEAR VIOLATION OF THE COMMERCE CLAUSE, AS WELL AS VIOLATING THE EQUAL PROTECTION CLAUSE OF THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION.

KEEP UP YOUR WORK. YOU HAVE A VERY LONG WAY TO GO.


I think I'm beginning to hate out of state vendors more than our own lawmakers. Oh god, am I getting Stockholm Syndrome?!

gewgaw
08-17-2010, 8:35 AM
californians are frequently perceived as a different and separate breed from the "outside world." that is partially why it is so important for Calgunners to remain united; to be tolerant of our differences and embrace our similarities.

I agree. I frequently feel as though the rest of the country (well, most of it anyway) has the attitude of "we got ours, who cares about you" when it comes to firearms freedoms. What kind of person who professes to fight for the 2A and freedom and America and all that would then turn around and say, you know what, I know this is legal to sell this item to you right now, but I won't because you're in California, and "we all know what you Californians are like."

The Calguns Foundation, and all of us here on Calguns, are fighting the good fight, and we're actually working for a better future. When we finally dig OURSELVES out of these gun laws, without help from the douchebags on Gunbroker, we can legitimately say we did it pretty much without their help.

Personally, I have no problem keeping my business, dollars and support inside our great state.

gewgaw
08-17-2010, 8:39 AM
I think I'm beginning to hate out of state vendors more than our own lawmakers. Oh god, am I getting Stockholm Syndrome?!

I hate FFLs like these. Thank God they're not all like that out of state, or we'd really have to dig a moat around California. If he's so "acquainted" with CA law then he'd have no problem selling you a legal item in a legal manner.

It's like this guy's business plan is:

Step 1: USE ALL CAPS AND THROW IN THE LETTER "K" ALL OVER THE PLACE
Step 2: ...
Step 3: Profit?

Rekrab
08-17-2010, 9:59 AM
I have noticed, however, that a lot of these knuckle draggers specifically say "Will not sell to California." First chance I get, I'm bidding on one with that description. When they get angry I'll simply say "I'm not California..."

Cyc Wid It
08-17-2010, 10:21 AM
It's OK. I'd be pissed too if I had to live in Indiana.

slomofo
08-17-2010, 10:27 AM
Sounds like an honest man trying to avoid getting in trouble because he admittedly doesn't know any better.

gewgaw
08-17-2010, 11:40 AM
Sounds like an honest man trying to avoid getting in trouble because he admittedly doesn't know any better.

It would, except why doesn't he single out Massachusetts, New York or New Jersey? They have gun laws that are just as convoluted and crazy as ours.

It's gotten popular to bash on California for some reason, and it's especially disconcerting since we all know what we are signing up for when we engage in the act of buying or selling firearms. It's a highly controlled marketplace.

It's fine if he wants to not sell to whoever he doesn't want to sell to. But he should spare us the lectures.

tacticalcity
08-17-2010, 11:55 AM
Let me play devil's advocate for a second...

Your blame and anger is entirely misplaced when put into context of how things actually work.

Sometimes it is not the seller, but the manufacturer dictating to them what they can and cannot ship to you. For example Tapco will not allow their M4 stocks to be sold here in California. Doesn't matter that they are perfectly legal, if I as a seller ship you that stock they will cut me off and stop selling their products to me. So obviously, I am not gonna sell it to you. It is not personal. I know it is legal, but I am not going to shoot myself in the foot and loose Tapco as my supplier if they refuse to allow sales of certain products of theirs in our state. That said, I offer plenty of similar products from other brands that I can ship to California. So buy one of those instead. Often times, there is NO difference between them at all. So what does it matter what name is on the cardboard packaging?

Odds are it is S&W dictating whether or not he can ship to you. That, or the distributor the reseller gets them from won't ship to you and the seller doesn't actually stock them himself but gets them dropshipped so he is at their mercy. Usually the reseller will do whatever he can to keep a sale. If he could, odds are he would.

Bear in mind our previous attorney general and the DOJ sent countless misleading, confusing and threatening letters to distributors and manufacturers in this industry. To blame them for not wanting to do business with us is nonsense. Blame the DOJ and our elected officials for the fear tactics they employ to keep these fun items out of our hands. Blaming the reseller or even the manufacturer for being intimidated by threats of fines and jail time is ridiculous. In their place, you would be intimidated as well. It is no wonder many of them cut us off all together. Why should they risk it? We are just one state. There are 49 others to sell to and those states' officials are not sending them threatening letters.

Ok, done playing devil's advocate...

I agree, it sucks and if the reseller was a little more concerned about their bottom line they would have tried a little harder to keep the sale. However, as I demonstrated above, sometimes is just not that clear cut. There are lot of other forces at work than whether or not the item is actually legal. In the end, we have no one to blame but ourselves. We elected these morons.

gewgaw
08-17-2010, 12:04 PM
Your blame and anger is entirely sometimes misplaced.

Fixed it for you! :)

What you say is true for honest merchants who make their living off supplying us with what we need. Totally get it. But if that's the case that the mfg or distributor is preventing a merchant from selling to CA, then they ought to be upfront and say it's the mfg or distributor that's preventing the sale. They should not go off on some half-cocked rant about "KALIFORNIA" and fling mud in our eye, if even just because it's bad policy to treat your customers poorly.

What you say is NOT true about private sellers, since they don't have the pressure of manufacturers or distributors holding them to a sales policy.

Ed_Hazard
08-17-2010, 12:06 PM
F'em buy from in state sources. If you have to pay a little more or a lot more so be it. I'm not going to beg someone to take my money. I dont like being looked down on because of where I live.

Rekrab
08-17-2010, 12:10 PM
Ed, if I can I will always support California businesses and California-friendly vendors. However, when you're searching around for some rare, unusual, or hard to find product that's rarely an option.

In the case of the rant I posted, it was for a WW2 era P.38.

tacticalcity
08-17-2010, 12:11 PM
Fixed it for you! :)

What you say is true for honest merchants who make their living off supplying us with what we need. Totally get it. But if that's the case that the mfg or distributor is preventing a merchant from selling to CA, then they ought to be upfront and say it's the mfg or distributor that's preventing the sale. They should not go off on some half-cocked rant about "KALIFORNIA" and fling mud in our eye, if even just because it's bad policy to treat your customers poorly.

What you say is NOT true about private sellers, since they don't have the pressure of manufacturers or distributors holding them to a sales policy.

I would agree with your assement completely. Like I said, I was playing Devil's Advocate and not necessarily sticking up for the seller in question. I get hundreads of emails a day from overseas buyers begging me to sell them gun parts. However, to do so would result in huge fines and possible jail time. Just can't risk it.

If find the NO CALIFORNIA SALES thing just as annoying as everybody else. From a seller's standpoint, I want to make money so I want to sell it where ever I can. Heck, I would LOVE to be able to do international sales, and find that a hugely crippling factor on my business.

As a buyer, I find it terribly annoying as the NO CALIFORNIA SALES thing never fails to come up when I find the item I want at just the right price.

So I share the pain, believe me. I just choose to blame our politicians and state government, since they caused the mess in the first place. After all, there is reason people are affraid to sell to us.

yuccales
08-17-2010, 12:21 PM
F'em buy from in state sources. If you have to pay a little more or a lot more so be it. I'm not going to beg someone to take my money. I dont like being looked down on because of where I live. Very well said! There is a lot of people/dealers who are happy to deal with Californians, and their the ones that get my money.

Milsurp Collector
08-17-2010, 12:27 PM
It would, except why doesn't he single out Massachusetts, New York or New Jersey? They have gun laws that are just as convoluted and crazy as ours.



It looks like that seller is particularly ticked off about the California Firearms Licensee Check System (CFLC) (http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/cflcoverview.php) that requires him as a non-California FFL to register with the California DOJ and to request ("beg") California DOJ for a "verification approval number" each and every time he ships a firearm to a California FFL, something that not even Massachusetts, New York, or New Jersey, or any other state, requires.

California DOJ tries to make it "quick and painless" by making it possible for non-California FFLs to register and to obtain the verification approval number over the Internet, but clearly that seller doesn't like the fact that he has to register with California DOJ and request permission to ship to California, something he doesn't have to do with any other state, and something that other states don't require of California FFLs.


I AM AN FFL, AND I AM WELL ACQUAINTED WITH THE CALIFORNIA STATUTES. I DON'T NEED ANY HELP IN UNDERSTANDING YOUR FIREARMS LAWS.

FURTHER, I WILL NOT SHIP ANY FIREARMS INTO YOUR STATE UNTIL THE CONSTITUTIONALLY OFFENSIVE STATUTES CITED IN THE PREAMBLE TO MY GUNBROKER LISTINGS ARE REPEALED IN TOTAL.

I WILL NOT REGISTER MY INDIANA BASED BUSINESS WITH THE PEOPLES REPUBLICK OF KALIFORNIA. THIS IS A CLEAR VIOLATION OF THE INTERSTATE COMMERCE CLAUSE OF THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION.

I WILL NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES WHATSOEVER, BEG PRIOR PERMISSION FROM THE PEOPLES REPUBLICK OF KALIFORNIA DOJ TO SHIP FIREARMS TO ANOTHER FEDERALLY LICENSED DEALER WHO HAS THE MISFORTUNE TO BE DOING BUSINESS THEREIN. SINCE THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT THAT THE KALIFORNIA BASED DEALER BE REQUIRED TO BEG SIMILAR PERMISSION FROM THE STATE OF INDIANA, OR ANY OTHER STATE FOR THAT MATTER, THIS IS ALSO A CLEAR VIOLATION OF THE COMMERCE CLAUSE, AS WELL AS VIOLATING THE EQUAL PROTECTION CLAUSE OF THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION.

thayne
08-17-2010, 12:48 PM
I've been going insane trying to track down a few pistols on Gunbroker. This is my favorite insane advertisement I've seen so far:



So, I popped him a little e-mail, it went like this:



And then his equally insane response:


I think I'm beginning to hate out of state vendors more than our own lawmakers. Oh god, am I getting Stockholm Syndrome?!
Tell him he's doing a great job supporting the anti's :rolleyes:

We should keep a list of all these jackasses and remember them when the laws fall and they want in on the CA action.

ZX-10R
08-17-2010, 12:54 PM
Serves CA right for electing the officials who promote this kind of absurdity.

Rekrab
08-17-2010, 1:00 PM
Tell him he's doing a great job supporting the anti's :rolleyes:

We should keep a list of all these jackasses and remember them when the laws fall and they want in on the CA action.

I hinted at that in my e-mail to him. I really do think that the rest of the country will fall to these absurd gun laws if we don't get them fixed here first. The country looks to California as the most "progressive" state in the union.

I could be wrong, but I doubt CGN would really like us keeping a proper list on the forums. Maybe someone should set up an easy to find blog/public document that will keep a list of companies, GB sellers, and AA sellers that refuse to do business with us when it's legal.

gunn
08-17-2010, 1:13 PM
F-em.
Even with the socialist politicians running the show here, California is still a very, very rich state. While the $ spent on firearms per capita may be lower than in other states, I'm willing to bet that as a whole we spend more $$$ on firearms than podunk states like Tenessee, the Carolinas, etc. I know personally that I probably make at least 40% more than I would had I stayed in Texas.

I'm not going to beg anyone or suck any dong in order to get people to sell me a gun (or anything else, for that matter). If you don't want my dollars, there are plenty of other folks willing to sell to me. Vote with your money.

Inventory surpluses are coming and if the economy continues to stagnate, it will only get worse. Lowers can be purchased for as little as $65 now. Why? Because people are less willing to pay >$100 for a hunk of aluminum. If sellers get hungry enough, and see that CA folks are still spending when other folks in "free states" have long since tapped out, they will come around.

-g



be I bet we spend more $$$ on firearms than podunk states like Tenessee

Milsurp Collector
08-17-2010, 1:31 PM
I really do think that the rest of the country will fall to these absurd gun laws if we don't get them fixed here first. The country looks to down on California as the most "progressive" state in the union.



Fixed it for you. :p

California's gun laws are headed 180 away from the rest of the country's direction (more freedom). In no way does the rest of the country "look to California" as a model for gun laws. Except for the Brady Campaign and some anti-gun politicians of course.

Rekrab
08-17-2010, 2:27 PM
Some states perhaps Milsurp. But as the West Coast Crazies and the East Coast Elites move inland I think we're going to see a lot more "progressive" laws get put into place in the "free" states.

But, as long as we can beat the laws here, which I'm pretty optimistic about, I don't think it will get much further than our borders and some of the wackier states. Even Washington and Oregon, which are traditionally free states, are apparently having a hard time. Washington state has already tried to pass legislation that would ban the sale of semi automatic firearms. It was beat down, but the fact that a bill even got to the assembly is a scary thought.

Ed_Hazard
08-17-2010, 2:34 PM
Ed, if I can I will always support California businesses and California-friendly vendors. However, when you're searching around for some rare, unusual, or hard to find product that's rarely an option.

In the case of the rant I posted, it was for a WW2 era P.38.

I hear you and it sucks that because of the seller's unwillingness to work with you, you miss out. Hopefully the oppurtunity will present itself again in the future and you'll luck out.

shark92651
08-17-2010, 2:43 PM
My motto: Buy local, avoid douchebags.

Code7inOaktown
08-17-2010, 2:47 PM
F-em.
...

I'm not going to beg anyone or suck any dong in order to get people to sell me a gun (or anything else, for that matter). If you don't want my dollars, there are plenty of other folks willing to sell to me. Vote with your money.

Inventory surpluses are coming and if the economy continues to stagnate, it will only get worse. Lowers can be purchased for as little as $65 now. Why? Because people are less willing to pay >$100 for a hunk of aluminum. If sellers get hungry enough, and see that CA folks are still spending when other folks in "free states" have long since tapped out, they will come around.

-g

be I bet we spend more $$$ on firearms than podunk states like Tenessee


You're totally right. The market will decide. Even though California has frakked up gun laws, the fact that you can get Californized AK's at Big 5 and more and more vendors are starting to realize that catering to the richest state in the Union can yield higher profits, it'll change.

Ten percent of America resides in California, and that 10 percent probably represents far more than 10 percent of the wealth of the nation. Dealers are catering to Californians are likely reaping huge profits. In, fact, I think I'm going to order something from Rifle gear this week! What the hey!

I am PO'ed at anyone who won't sell to CA for political reasons or who says move out.

I'm going to guess those same guys are not pro-Obama. Are they going to just pickup and move out of the US? Hell no. Grrr.

Rekrab
08-17-2010, 2:52 PM
My motto: Buy local, avoid douchebags.

A little "winkwinknudgenudge" in there Shark? :43:

Still haven't had an opportunity to buy from you guys. One of these days maybe...

PsychGuy274
08-17-2010, 3:16 PM
You have to understand it from the individual's point of view. If I didn't live in California, I'd be petrified to ship anything into this state. Even a fluffy, stuffed Teddy bear.

Keep in mind that we know these laws very well and can rattle off penal codes off the top of our heads and we pretty much have the Roberti-Roos list committed to memory. You can't realistically expect people in free states to devote the time and effort to knowing our firearms laws. I wouldn't bother if I was out of state. Too much risk.

Larger corporations though are a different story, IMHO.

Just my 0.02

Milsurp Collector
08-17-2010, 3:24 PM
Some states perhaps Milsurp. But as the West Coast Crazies and the East Coast Elites move inland I think we're going to see a lot more "progressive" laws get put into place in the "free" states.

That hasn't been the case so far. As I said earlier, the rest of the country is moving ahead with both legislative action (Iowa, Arizona) or with judicial action (Washington, DC and Chicago) towards more freedom, while California heads in the opposite direction (AB 962, AB 1934, AB 1810).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/smallestminority/Nebraska.gif

Since the time that map was created Iowa has gone from may issue to shall issue http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/NewsReleases.aspx?id=13734 and Arizona no longer requires a permit for concealed carry http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-tucson/arizona-constitutional-carry-sb-1108-signed-by-governor-brewer Rather than being on the cutting edge, California is being left farther and farther behind.

Even Washington and Oregon, which are traditionally free states, are apparently having a hard time. Washington state has already tried to pass legislation that would ban the sale of semi automatic firearms. It was beat down, but the fact that a bill even got to the assembly is a scary thought.

There hasn't been any attempt to pass more restrictive gun laws in Oregon.

In Washington, State Senator Adam Klein tried to push an "Assault Weapon" ban (modeled after the 1994 Federal ban, not California's). Washington gun owners, not wanting their state to become more like California in regards to guns, showed up en masse for the hearing and staged a vigorous email and telephone campaign. The bill never made it out of committee, even though Sen. Klein is the chairman of that committee and a majority of its members are Democrats. So California does serve as an example of sorts, but not in the way that you stated.

It's a...conceit, if you will...that some Californians still hold that the rest of the country looks with awe and admiration to California as some kind of vanguard pointing the way to a brighter tomorrow. That might have been true in the 1950s-1990s, but I don't think it's true today, especially with regard to gun laws, except of course for the Brady Campaign and a few politicians like Sen. Klein, but their influence is waning. Do you really think that after AB 1934 bans unloaded open carry in California the rest of the country is going to say "Ooh look, California banned the open carry of unloaded guns, maybe we should do that too!"? Look at that map and see where the rest of the country is headed, regardless of what is happening in California. ;)

On a happier note, there is a Gunbroker seller who will serve as a middleman between a "no sales to California" seller and your California FFL for the cost of shipping + $20 http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=323745

Chuntsman949
08-17-2010, 3:33 PM
I am so chapped that CA does this stuff, but the thing is I love CA otherwise... my love for guns is slowly pushing me towards property in Montana/Texas..preferably texas, that way if I need to go to walmart it is not a 23 hr drive

IRONWILL
08-17-2010, 6:06 PM
It's OK. I'd be pissed too if I had to live in Indiana.

:rofl2:

Noonanda
08-17-2010, 7:21 PM
One item that that Cali-basher mentioned, and Im not a lawyer nor did I stay at a holiday inn, but he brings up the interstate commerce clause. Does CFLC affect interstate commerce (yes it does) in a way not allowed by the current federal laws? Maybe this is an angle to get that penal code challenged as unconstitutional? Im sure it has been thought of before, any input??

icefire
08-18-2010, 4:12 PM
[QUOTE=tacticalcity;4797248][U]For example Tapco will not allow their M4 stocks to be sold here in California. .

If so, How did I buy a brand-new tapco T-6 stock from a gun store Here in calif., brand new, in the bag , a few months ago?

pic of stock on gun, after conversion:

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?app=gallery&module=images&img=2655

The one Tapco wont let them sell here....this kind of FUD helps spread the problem...

And if Tapco wont let you sell them, why are they listed for sale on your online store link, to california? just to make some kind of point? Do you sell them, or dont you?...

icefire
08-18-2010, 4:19 PM
I agree with folks getting upset at vendors that wont try to help us here...I dont want someone to commit a crime for me, but sheesh, have the BALLS to sell me something thats LEGAL here....That HELPS everbodys' cause for guns, not just Cali folks...


I have sent several e-mails to Centerfire Systems about their ads that say Saigas are illegal in California, which of course is false, they are PERFECTLY LEGAL IN STOCK FORM HERE...and never even go the courtesy of a reply, and I was polite in every e-mail....Now some FFLs wont even sell us parts....then they say WE have to vote out the hacks...

Wherryj
08-18-2010, 4:21 PM
This shows that the antis strategy of just making guns and gun parts too much of a pain to own has served them well. They can get away with saying that they support the 2A with reasonable restrictions when what they are really doing is just making the average person say "screw it, it's too much of a hassle to buy a gun." And the average out of state seller say "Screw it, it's too much of a hassle to sell to Californians."

Take a look at this "restriction" that will quite possibly be investigated in our wonderful socialist republic:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/16/black_boxes_for_guns/

PsychGuy274
08-18-2010, 4:30 PM
[QUOTE=tacticalcity;4797248][U]For example Tapco will not allow their M4 stocks to be sold here in California. .

If so, How did I buy a brand-new tapco T-6 stock from a gun store Here in calif., brand new, in the bag , a few months ago?


You're a ninja?

icefire
08-18-2010, 4:34 PM
[QUOTE=icefire;4804582]

You're a ninja?

No, I took it apart to do a Saiga conversion properly for someone who insisted on a Tapco collapsable. Dont have that gun now... On Mine, I have an Ace folder...

thayne
08-18-2010, 4:39 PM
Send him this link :D http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=40382/Product/MAG_LOCK_AR_15_BULLET_BUTTON_reg_