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anthonyca
08-14-2010, 6:55 PM
I was just over on RV.net and people were talking about camping with truck campers. Many people buy truck campers, especially pop ups, so they can go off the main roads and out of the camp grounds. An ax, saw, or chainsaw is very helpful to have with you. One of the posters wrote that he always has an axe under his seat.

What would happen if he traveled to California and was pulled over and searched, or his truck was towed and inventoried?

thevic
08-14-2010, 7:03 PM
llast time i was pulled over a cop asked me if i had any weapons..i sai an axe and the officer chuckled and said ohhh the body spray and walked away

im a gardener so i can easily argue why i have one, but this is what i carry 24/7 in my truck

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab248/vpsmedeiros/misc/276ef461.jpg

anthonyca
08-14-2010, 7:06 PM
llast time i was pulled over a cop asked me if i had any weapons..i sai an axe and the officer chuckled and said ohhh the body spray and walked away

im a gardener so i can easily argue why i have one, but this is what i carry 24/7 in my truck

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab248/vpsmedeiros/misc/276ef461.jpg

Those are some nice tools.

Maestro Pistolero
08-14-2010, 7:06 PM
..i sai an axe and the officer chuckled and said ohhh the body sprayHuh? :confused:

thevic
08-14-2010, 7:10 PM
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axe_(grooming_product)?wasRedirected=true

otteray
08-14-2010, 7:20 PM
Axe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT6IWAIf580 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT6IWAIf580)

E Pluribus Unum
08-14-2010, 7:22 PM
If asked "do you have any weapons" and you say "I have an axe under my seat", if you failed the A-Hole test, you may be charged with carrying a billy. This is because you classified it as a weapon when asked. If you said "no" and they found it in a search, you should say something like "that is not a weapon, that is an axe". Carrying any hard object as a weapon is illegal. Carrying tools is not.

anthonyca
08-14-2010, 7:35 PM
If asked "do you have any weapons" and you say "I have an axe under my seat", if you failed the A-Hole test, you may be charged with carrying a billy. This is because you classified it as a weapon when asked. If you said "no" and they found it in a search, you should say something like "that is not a weapon, that is an axe". Carrying any hard object as a weapon is illegal. Carrying tools is not.

Thank you. The old baseball bat under the seat with no baseballs or a glove got me thinking about this.

paintballergb
08-14-2010, 7:39 PM
I have a hatchet under my seat. Along with a shovel, survival blanket, a gallon of water and a few other survival items.

QuarterBoreGunner
08-14-2010, 7:48 PM
I used to carry The Club (http://www.amazon.com/Original-Club-Steering-Wheel-Lock/dp/B0000CBILL) in my car... not to prevent theft, but because it's a club. And no questions asked.

Ed_Hazard
08-14-2010, 7:48 PM
I've got a real handy fiskar machete in mytruck along with my other tools.:thumbsup:

Skidmark
08-14-2010, 8:06 PM
Those are some nice tools.

EFZ, tools, not weapons.

pullnshoot25
08-14-2010, 8:43 PM
Axes and tomahawks are a unique tool that, imho, are wholly exempt from the 12020 language concerning concealed dirks or daggers.

Carry on.

pullnshoot25
08-14-2010, 8:45 PM
If asked "do you have any weapons" and you say "I have an axe under my seat", if you failed the A-Hole test, you may be charged with carrying a billy. This is because you classified it as a weapon when asked. If you said "no" and they found it in a search, you should say something like "that is not a weapon, that is an axe". Carrying any hard object as a weapon is illegal. Carrying tools is not.

Good point. As usual, say nothing!

SJgunguy24
08-14-2010, 10:32 PM
I have a double edged knife I use for work, I had a cop give me a hard time about that. I asked him if he considered his gun a weapon or simply a tool he needs to do his job. He thought about that for a minute and just looked at me and asked if I thought about being a lawyer. He had never heard someone put a "weapon" into that context to justify possession of what normally would be illegal.

Decoligny
08-15-2010, 12:59 PM
I have a double edged knife I use for work, I had a cop give me a hard time about that. I asked him if he considered his gun a weapon or simply a tool he needs to do his job. He thought about that for a minute and just looked at me and asked if I thought about being a lawyer. He had never heard someone put a "weapon" into that context to justify possession of what normally would be illegal.

There is NOTHING in California law that makes a "DOUBLE EDGED" knife illegal. :banghead:

I don't know how many times it has to be repeated before people realize, a concealed "DIRK OR DAGGER" has nothing to do with double edged. It has to do with being readily able to be used as a stabbing weapon, and is only illegal if concealed "on your person"(within reach is considered on your person)..

:beatdeadhorse5:

Roadrunner
08-15-2010, 1:23 PM
My axe is just one of many tools I keep in the back of my FJ when I go off roading. I also have a round shovel, square shovel, hammer, and 8 lb sledge, along with a small toolbox with tools for the FJ. And that's just the stuff you can see. :43:

SJgunguy24
08-15-2010, 1:27 PM
I have a double edged knife I use for work, I had a cop give me a hard time about that. I asked him if he considered his gun a weapon or simply a tool he needs to do his job. He thought about that for a minute and just looked at me and asked if I thought about being a lawyer. He had never heard someone put a "weapon" into that context to justify possession of what normally would be illegal.

There is NOTHING in California law that makes a "DOUBLE EDGED" knife illegal. :banghead:

I don't know how many times it has to be repeated before people realize, a concealed "DIRK OR DAGGER" has nothing to do with double edged. It has to do with being readily able to be used as a stabbing weapon, and is only illegal if concealed "on your person"(within reach is considered on your person)..

:beatdeadhorse5:

I usually carry it in my back or side pocket in my Carhartts

Suvorov
08-15-2010, 7:18 PM
My "office" has a crash axe in it.
My 4Runner has a crash axe in it.
Both for the same reason/s.

Vox
08-15-2010, 10:26 PM
I've actually been wondering about this myself. I've got a machete I keep under my bench seat in my truck, but with a lot of other survival type things.

GuyW
08-15-2010, 10:36 PM
....je's 'cause he axed you don't mean you have to answer!

.

popndrop
08-15-2010, 11:07 PM
I've got a Crash Axe under the back seat of my truck...along with some other survival items...at least one that goes Bang.

IrishPirate
08-15-2010, 11:17 PM
Just call it a tool and STFU if the cop presses the issue. Say only, "I want my lawyer"

E Pluribus Unum
08-15-2010, 11:26 PM
I've actually been wondering about this myself. I've got a machete I keep under my bench seat in my truck, but with a lot of other survival type things.

That is a concealed fix-blade knife. Don't get caught.

anthonyca
08-16-2010, 5:34 AM
That is a concealed fix-blade knife. Don't get caught.

That is what got me thinking about this potentially being a problem. I was listening to one of those radio lawyer shows, and a father called and said his son was arrested for a concealed fixed blade knife in his truck. The dad said he had already spent thousands and now his son is a felon.

So just to clarify, the axe is not a fixed blade knife by law, but a machete is?

YubaRiver
08-16-2010, 7:20 AM
This might be a case of Federal Law trumping state law.

The US Forest Service requires (or did until recently, haven't heard much
lately about it) that each party on Forest Service land carry an axe, shovel
and bucket for forest fire containment.

Even motorcycles are not are not exempt.

Glock22Fan
08-16-2010, 7:43 AM
Thank you. The old baseball bat under the seat with no baseballs or a glove got me thinking about this.

I was in Walmart looking at a nice pretty pink Hannah Montana t-ball bat. Struck me that a) it would be pretty handy in a fight. b) looks nothing like a weapon. Could always say "Oh, my niece left it there."

Window_Seat
08-16-2010, 8:39 AM
Ax under seat:

Way too heavy to use, unless you were really good at swinging for that chop.

If these dudes are ever confronted, a potential thug would be considered to have brought a plastic spoon to a .50 BMG fight: :eek::eek:

Cannot embed youtube videos for some reason:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1RSJuqc5Ko&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcR28Yqt4mY

Skidmark
08-16-2010, 9:12 AM
This might be a case of Federal Law trumping state law.

The US Forest Service requires (or did until recently, haven't heard much
lately about it) that each party on Forest Service land carry an axe, shovel
and bucket for forest fire containment.

Even motorcycles are not are not exempt.

Do you have a cite for that? None of the wilderness permits I've received from the USFS have carried such a requirement.

Flopper
08-16-2010, 9:14 AM
Ax under seat:

Way too heavy to use, unless you were really good at swinging for that chop.

I had assumed hatchets and tomahawks, which is what I have in my car.

bohoki
08-16-2010, 9:30 AM
EFZ, tools, not weapons.

but are not all weapons just tools of combat?

Vox
08-16-2010, 10:08 AM
That is a concealed fix-blade knife. Don't get caught.

what are the laws concerning fixed blade knives? If I had it open in the truck would that be legal although it'd be a pain. I like to have it stowed. It's a machete so it's pretty long , I don't know if that matters, I could certainly see an appeal based on the logic that if a rifle is too large to be considered concealable shouldn't also a machete that's equally long.

YubaRiver
08-16-2010, 11:46 AM
Do you have a cite for that? None of the wilderness permits I've received from the USFS have carried such a requirement.


I just called the Forest Service and they no longer require them for travel
as long as your vechicle has a spark arrester.
They are also required for firewood cutting.

kilrain
08-16-2010, 11:58 AM
That is what got me thinking about this potentially being a problem. I was listening to one of those radio lawyer shows, and a father called and said his son was arrested for a concealed fixed blade knife in his truck. The dad said he had already spent thousands and now his son is a felon.

So just to clarify, the axe is not a fixed blade knife by law, but a machete is?

Here is the definition of "dirk or dagger" in California as it applies to carrying it concealed:

(24) As used in this section, a "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife
or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of
ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury
or death. A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that is not
prohibited by Section 653k, or a pocketknife is capable of ready use
as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death
only if the blade of the knife is exposed and locked into position.

Under state law, fixed blade knives/swords worn in a sheath on the belt and NOT otherwise concealed are perfectly legal however there are always county and city ordinances/laws that you may have to consider.

Vox
08-16-2010, 12:04 PM
i think it'd be pretty hard to call a machete a "stabbing weapon" if I stabed you with my machete you're more likely to get bruised then punctured. it's a hell of a good chopping or slicing...tool...

Still not sure if under the seat of my car would count as "concealed"

kilrain
08-16-2010, 12:24 PM
i think it'd be pretty hard to call a machete a "stabbing weapon" if I stabed you with my machete you're more likely to get bruised then punctured. it's a hell of a good chopping or slicing...tool...

Still not sure if under the seat of my car would count as "concealed"

Remember that the enforcement of laws are generally based on the "reasonable man/person/officer" doctrine. Laws themselves, at least in California, require both an ACT and the requisite INTENT for them to be violated. For instance:

If you were driving a scroungy farm truck along an unimproved, county maintained road adjacent to the dairy you worked on, the cab and bed of your truck was full of tools and there was a machete under the seat that was obvious being used and intended to the tool it is, that would probably not considered "concealed" nor would be considered a "dirk or dagger" based on both the act and (lack of) intent.

If you were rollin' through the 'hood at o'dark-thirty in your g-ride with your homies, flying your colors with a machete under the seat, different story regarding act and intent.

I'm not saying both situations won't result in an arrest nor am I saying that both situations will result in a pass by the cops, I'm just trying to convey the reality of how and why laws are enforced.

And one last thing, the law regarding "dirks and daggers" says "concealed upon his or her person" however I've personally seen a person convicted (and rightfully so based on the totality of the circumstances) for having a fixed blade hunting knife laying on the floorboard, concealed by his leg. Just sayin'...

Vox
08-16-2010, 12:27 PM
My machete is under the seat under my huge down jacket in the dead of summer, next to my jack, a sleeping bag, tow straps, a lantern, etc. I sure hope if I got in trouble I'd be able to articulate well enough for a jury that I'm just trying to be prepared for any situation I might encounter.

kilrain
08-16-2010, 12:32 PM
My machete is under the seat under my huge down jacket in the dead of summer, next to my jack, a sleeping bag, tow straps, a lantern, etc. I sure hope if I got in trouble I'd be able to articulate well enough for a jury that I'm just trying to be prepared for any situation I might encounter.

Based on that description, I wouldn't sweat it but unfortunately, there are always exceptions to the "reasonable man/person/officer" doctrine when it comes to enforcement.

I hope nothing ever comes of it and, more importantly, I hope you never NEED to use that machete (or any of your other gear) for anything, particularly trail clearing, etc. Now if you are using it just for fun, well, have a ball!

Wherryj
08-16-2010, 1:07 PM
My axe is just one of many tools I keep in the back of my FJ when I go off roading. I also have a round shovel, square shovel, hammer, and 8 lb sledge, along with a small toolbox with tools for the FJ. And that's just the stuff you can see. :43:

I saw a slasher movie where dozens of people were bludgeoned by a sledge hammer. It's obviously a weapon of mass destruction as defined by Congress under the Hollywood scary items clause.

greg36f
08-16-2010, 2:36 PM
I saw a slasher movie where dozens of people were bludgeoned by a sledge hammer. It's obviously a weapon of mass destruction as defined by Congress under the Hollywood scary items clause.

I'm not sure that you can really call that a SLASHER movie then,,,,,,,,,,,Posibly a BASHER movie...
That sounds WAY messier that a slasher movie!!!! No open casket funerals there....

Hunt
08-16-2010, 6:18 PM
That is a concealed fix-blade knife. Don't get caught.

so I can keep my KaBar knife sheathed in open view on the console of my car? But if I put it out of sight even sheathed it is a crime?

IrishPirate
08-16-2010, 6:24 PM
so I can keep my KaBar knife sheathed in open view on the console of my car? But if I put it out of sight even sheathed it is a crime?

according to our politicians who know what's best for us....yes. If you can see it, it can't harm anyone. Once it's hidden, it's a ghost weapon that can strike at any time and will undoubtedly kill thousands of children.

Hunt
08-16-2010, 6:31 PM
according to our politicians who know what's best for us....yes. If you can see it, it can't harm anyone. Once it's hidden, it's a ghost weapon that can strike at any time and will undoubtedly kill thousands of children.
yes, but razor sharp locking folding knives in the unopened condition concealed in you jacket pocket are not ghost weapons! crazy

Glock22Fan
08-17-2010, 8:32 AM
"concealing" a dirk or dagger in a car cannot be illegal. Otherwise everyone who's ever purchased a kitchen knife and driven it home would be a felon. Doesn't even come close to passing a reasonability test. Case dismissed.

Last time I bought an 8" chef's knife (from a specialist store), they made a big point of wrapping it in several layers of corrugated cardboard and lots of tape, the intent being that if I got stopped on the way home, it would be clear that I could not quickly bring the knife into play as a weapon.

Vox
08-17-2010, 10:13 AM
THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

Decoligny
08-17-2010, 10:40 AM
"concealing" a dirk or dagger in a car cannot be illegal. Otherwise everyone who's ever purchased a kitchen knife and driven it home would be a felon. Doesn't even come close to passing a reasonability test. Case dismissed.

Every single person who has driven home with a set of steak knives in a paper bag on the seat next to them has indeed commited a felony under California Penal Code.

They either just haven't been caught, or if they were caught, the LEO had an ounce of common sense and realized they didn't have a "shank" hidden in their sleeve, so they weren't a "bad guy".

I remember reading about a salesman (restaruant supplies) who was charged and prosecuted for concealed "dirk or dagger" when stopped for a traffic violation. He had something like this on the passenger seat as a sample for his customers.

http://pacific-north-star-llc.tradenote.net/images/users/000/083/377/products_images/517238.jpg

Vox
08-17-2010, 11:04 AM
Every single person who has driven home with a set of steak knives in a paper bag on the seat next to them has indeed commited a felony under California Penal Code.

They either just haven't been caught, or if they were caught, the LEO had an ounce of common sense and realized they didn't have a "shank" hidden in their sleeve, so they weren't a "bad guy".

I remember reading about a salesman (restaruant supplies) who was charged and prosecuted for concealed "dirk or dagger" when stopped for a traffic violation. He had something like this on the passenger seat as a sample for his customers.

http://pacific-north-star-llc.tradenote.net/images/users/000/083/377/products_images/517238.jpg

The ADA that filed on that should be fired.

Glock22Fan
08-17-2010, 11:18 AM
The way Spetznaz (sp?) troops are trained to use their shovels, even using them as throwing weapons, I guess a gardener needs to be careful with those too!

Let's face it, anything can be used as a weapon. I believe that there are martial arts that teach this.

sniper5
08-17-2010, 12:29 PM
Speaking of Spetsnaz shovels, I keep one behind the seat in my truck, along with duct tape, gloves, and a small bag of wrenches and screwdrivers. Of course the edges are very sharp. It's just in case I get stuck in a difficult situation. . .they dig better that way, don'tcha know?

E Pluribus Unum
08-17-2010, 12:33 PM
Speaking of Spetsnaz shovels, I keep one behind the seat in my truck, along with duct tape, gloves, and a small bag of wrenches and screwdrivers.

:eek: What about the rope and the lye?

paradox
08-17-2010, 12:39 PM
If asked "do you have any weapons" and you say "I have an axe under my seat", if you failed the A-Hole test, you may be charged with carrying a billy. This is because you classified it as a weapon when asked. If you said "no" and they found it in a search, you should say something like "that is not a weapon, that is an axe". Carrying any hard object as a weapon is illegal. Carrying tools is not.

Case law says a "billy" is limited to bludgeoning instruments. If you have any cites that expand the already broad definition to edged instruments, please share.

"]The Deadly Weapons Act provides that "Every person who, within
the state of California, . . . possesses any instrument or weapon
of the kind commonly known as a black-jack, slung-shot, billy,
sand-club, sand-bag or metal knuckles . . . shall be guilty of a
felony, and upon conviction thereof shall be punishable by
imprisonment in a state prison for not less than one year nor
more than five years." (Italics ours.) All the
instruments mentioned, with the exception of metal knuckles,
belong to a certain species of weapon having so many
characteristics in common that their slight differences are
unimportant. They are all, other than metal knuckles, short,
easily concealed upon the person and so weighted as to constitute
effective and silent weapons of attack. Any one of them, in our
opinion, would be properly described by the general term, "sap",
and we believe that a sand-bag, such as a piece of hose loaded
with sand, is occasionally correctly described as a black-jack.

paradox
08-17-2010, 12:41 PM
"concealing" a dirk or dagger in a car cannot be illegal. Otherwise everyone who's ever purchased a kitchen knife and driven it home would be a felon. Doesn't even come close to passing a reasonability test. Case dismissed.

Think again....

the Legislature recognized that the new definition may criminalize the “innocent” carrying of legal instruments such as steak knives, scissors and metal knitting needles, but concluded “there is no need to carry such items concealed in public.” As a result, the Legislature made “[t]he unlawful concealed carrying of a dirk or dagger in Section 12020 . . . a general intent crime” and expressly stated that “[n]o intent for unlawful use would be required for violations of the prohibition on the concealed possession upon the person of an otherwise lawful dirk or dagger.”

Thus, the legislative history is clear and unequivocal: the intent to use the concealed instrument as a stabbing instrument is not an element of the crime of carrying a concealed dirk or dagger. Indeed, the offense has never had such an intent requirement, and we find nothing suggesting an intent by the Legislature to alter this established rule.
...

As an initial matter, we dispel a misconception fostered by Oskins and repeated by Rubalcava: the absence of a specific intent requirement does not make the carrying of a concealed dirk or dagger a strict liability offense. Strict liability offenses eliminate the “requirement of mens rea; that is, the requirement of a ‘guilty mind’ with respect to an element of a crime.” As such, a defendant may be guilty of a strict liability offense even if he does not know “the facts that make his conduct fit the definition of the offense.” By declining to make defendant’s intended use of the instrument an element of the offense, we do not eliminate the mens rea requirement. Because the dirk or dagger portion of section 12020 criminalizes “ ‘traditionally lawful conduct,’ ” we construe the statute to contain a “knowledge” element. Thus, to commit the offense, a defendant must still have the requisite guilty mind: that is, the defendant must knowingly and intentionally carry concealed upon his or her person an instrument “that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon.” A defendant who does not know that he is carrying the weapon or that the concealed instrument may be used as a stabbing weapon is therefore not guilty of violating section 12020.6

...

Even though section 12020 may seem overbroad as a matter of common sense, we will not find it unconstitutionally overbroad without some concrete impairment of constitutionally protected conduct.

Although we conclude that section 12020 is not unconstitutionally vague or overbroad, we echo the concerns over the breadth of the statute raised by Rubalcava. As written, section 12020, subdivisions (a) and (c)(24) may criminalize seemingly innocent conduct. Consequently, the statute may invite arbitrary and discriminatory enforcement not due to any vagueness in the statutory language but due to the wide range of otherwise innocent conduct it proscribes. Indeed, the Legislature suggested this very possibility. “Proponents of this bill would possibly suggest that everyone—peace officers, prosecutors, judges, and juries—knows what is considered ‘bad’ carrying of a concealed dirk or dagger, cite Grubb (supra), and argue that is the protection against possibly overzealous use of the Penal Code proscriptions on such conduct?”

E Pluribus Unum
08-18-2010, 1:45 AM
Case law says a "billy" is limited to bludgeoning instruments. If you have any cites that expand the already broad definition to edged instruments, please share.

Are you seriously saying that an axe is not a bludgeoning weapon???


What is an axe more similar to, a hammer, or a knife?

I've not been cut by many axe blades, and I have touched a bunch! Even if you did sharpen an axe to razor sharp, it wouldn't take many hits until that blade was smashed into a nice dull bludgeoning tool.

Decoligny
08-18-2010, 7:47 AM
could someone please explain to me just how "concealing" a dirk or dagger in a vehicle is somehow related to the law, which prohibits the concealed carry "UPON HIS OR HER PERSON [of] any dirk or dagger."? I don't think the terms "person" and "vehicle" are interchangeable.

I don't have the case law reference, but IIRC if the knife is immediately accessable to the person, then it is considered to be "UPON HIS OR HER PERSON". So, If you have the knife concealed by being tucked between the driver's seat and the console, legally speaking it is considered the same as if you had it concealed by being tucked in the back of your pants.

If however, you have the knife concealed in the bottom of a taped closed moving box full of books in the backseat of your car, and would have to cut open the tape, and pull out 60 lbs of books to get to the knife, it would not be considered immediately accessable, and thus not "UPON HIS OR HER PERSON".

mzimmers
08-18-2010, 10:21 AM
There is NOTHING in California law that makes a "DOUBLE EDGED" knife illegal. :banghead:

I don't know how many times it has to be repeated before people realize, a concealed "DIRK OR DAGGER" has nothing to do with double edged. It has to do with being readily able to be used as a stabbing weapon, and is only illegal if concealed "on your person"(within reach is considered on your person)..

:beatdeadhorse5:

Really? So, this knife is CA legal?

http://www.weapons-universe.com/Brands/United_Cutlery/Wasp_Dagger-UC-728-thumbnail.jpg

Cool...

Decoligny
08-18-2010, 10:26 AM
Really? So, this knife is CA legal?

http://www.weapons-universe.com/Brands/United_Cutlery/Wasp_Dagger-UC-728-thumbnail.jpg

Cool...

Absolutely legal, unless you conceal it.

I have this one.

http://www.jaysknives.com/westernfixedblade/Westmark77bootknife.jpg

mzimmers
08-18-2010, 10:46 AM
Absolutely legal, unless you conceal it.

Fantastic! How about this one?

http://www.extremely-sharp.com/images/P/10361.jpg

(Don't bother answering; I'm pretty sure that these are verboten.)

SPaikmos
08-18-2010, 11:27 AM
haha!

Y'know, those handles are really dangerous since someone could get pinched! Oh, the horror..

Never understood what someone would do with a curvy blade like that.

Decoligny
08-18-2010, 11:44 AM
Fantastic! How about this one?

http://www.extremely-sharp.com/images/P/10361.jpg

(Don't bother answering; I'm pretty sure that these are verboten.)

I will still answer just in case someone doesn't know.

Yes these are veboten. They are considered equivalent to a switchblade or gravity knife. You can legally own them, but cannot carry them.

paradox
08-18-2010, 12:15 PM
Are you seriously saying that an axe is not a bludgeoning weapon???

Yep. Since I can't find a 12020 appellate case dealing with axes, I'm turning to the next best authority: D&D :p

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Club
Club
Simple One-Handed Thrown Melee Critical: ×2
Range Increment: 10 ft.
Type: Bludgeoning
Hardness: 5

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Battleaxe
Battleaxe
Martial One-Handed Melee Critical: ×3
Range Increment: —
Type: Slashing
Hardness: 5

E Pluribus Unum
08-18-2010, 12:20 PM
Yep. Since I can't find a 12020 appellate case dealing with axes, I'm turning to the next best authority: D&D :p

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Club


http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Battleaxe

Well, I do not want to be a test case. It is much too grey for my liking. I think that an axe more closely resembles a hammer than a knife and I could easily see a DA arguing it that way.

Barbarossa
08-18-2010, 2:31 PM
Really? So, this knife is CA legal?

http://www.weapons-universe.com/Brands/United_Cutlery/Wasp_Dagger-UC-728-thumbnail.jpg

Cool...

Ha I have one of those!

mzimmers
08-18-2010, 2:35 PM
I will still answer just in case someone doesn't know.

Yes these are veboten. They are considered equivalent to a switchblade or gravity knife. You can legally own them, but cannot carry them.

Dang. That's two things I've learned in this thread. I guess I'm completely legal, then. I never carry either of my balisongs any more. For that matter, I haven't carried the wasp dagger in ages, either. Guns are more fun now.

Don Nguyen
10-05-2010, 9:21 PM
If I have a machete in my gun case while I transport them together, would it be considered concealed if the case was not locked down? Or would that fall into the not upon his or her possession, since I'd have to open latches on the case or unzip it (depending on the case), to access the blade/machete?

-Don

otteray
10-06-2010, 8:07 PM
Today, I attended a workplace sponsored safety event (for emergencies involving our County Roads Dept., CHP, PG&E, CalFire, along with our Stihl chainsaw reps.)
At the CHP's Class A licensed vehicle "walk around" refresher class today, the officer stated that having a claw hammer (for thumping the tires) that is stored behind the seat was okay; but a ball peen hammer would be a felony!?
Go figure...

E Pluribus Unum
10-06-2010, 9:07 PM
Today, I attended a workplace sponsored safety event (for emergencies involving our County Roads Dept., CHP, PG&E, CalFire, along with our Stihl chainsaw reps.)
At the CHP's Class A licensed vehicle "walk around" refresher class today, the officer stated that having a claw hammer (for thumping the tires) that is stored behind the seat was okay; but a ball peen hammer would be a felony!?
Go figure...

Sounds like major FUD to me.

tommyid1
10-06-2010, 11:03 PM
i allways have my ax a hatchet my knife 2 gallons of extra oil a gallon of tranny fluid my fly rod reel flies extra fishing stuff and water purification stuff ties rope bunjies and a large tarp under the seat of my truck.

freespool
10-07-2010, 1:45 PM
I don't have the case law reference, but IIRC if the knife is immediately accessable to the person, then it is considered to be "UPON HIS OR HER PERSON". So, If you have the knife concealed by being tucked between the driver's seat and the console, legally speaking it is considered the same as if you had it concealed by being tucked in the back of your pants.

If however, you have the knife concealed in the bottom of a taped closed moving box full of books in the backseat of your car, and would have to cut open the tape, and pull out 60 lbs of books to get to the knife, it would not be considered immediately accessable, and thus not "UPON HIS OR HER PERSON".I only follow this as an occassional interest, but can someone provide the case cite please, once and for all and settle whether this is a legitimate risk to storing in the car, or the commonplace FUD? Years ago I was stopped for speeding by CHP in the Sierras and detained for an extra 20 minutes for the dagger in the glove box. As the officer walked away with the knife, I told him to check 12020, and he finally came back, threw the knife in the back seat and asked why I would want to carry such a thing. After re-checking the Code, I thought I could rest easy that concealment in the car was OK. The statute language seems clear, unless there's appellate confirmation to the contrary or common risk of over-reaching citation, then nothing has changed.