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View Full Version : American Vintage Inc. BEWARE!!!


Ed.
08-14-2010, 9:23 AM
I just want to warn all Calgunners of Felex, American Vintage Inc. and his unsavory business practices. I was in the market for a POF P308, found his site, and gave him a shot (no pun intended). We agreed on an out the door price and he told me that a credit card purchase would carry a 3.6% sur charge, but that a bank transfer was free and I could do it from the comfort of my own house. I called him back the next day as a courtesy to confirm our agreed on price and now the price has gone up. He tells me there is in fact a $20 fee for an account transfer that somehow slipped his mind. While a new price after being quoted a price is not in and of itself a deal breaker, though poor business practice, what is of concern is that just the day before Felex regaled me with his exploits of attention to detail and how he is anal and never makes mistakes blah blah blah. Next he tells me that he does not have the weapon that we discussed in stock but that he does have another weapon with a different finish and barrel length in and assures me that I'll be very happy with this weapon. I tell him that on his site he is auctioning the weapon that I want and ask why if he is such a detail oriented individual why is there one list of inventory on his site and another one when I speak with him. He has some elaborate story about how his dog is ill and how he knows that that particular weapon should be in within the next few weeks and so he can in good faith post that weapon as part of his inventory. All this aside I decide to move forward with a purchase and decide to bite the bullet (again no pun intended) and make the purchase on a credit card and try to minimize the risk as I have grown cautious from the past dealings with this seller but still want the weapon. He then tells me that he insist that I make the purchase via bank transfer and that he will not take a credit card from me due to the risks. Huh!?!?!?!?! I was not aware that the seller assumed any risk while selling an item via credit card. There is no way that the weapon will ship out in the next few days, plenty of time for the funds to clear, and if they don't clear he would just not ship the weapon, right?

I just want to warn all of you as I would appreciate the heads up from any of you. If this post is in the wrong section I apologize and please move it as necessary.

Ed_Hazard
08-14-2010, 9:29 AM
Sorry to hear about your troubles but in all fairness their were plenty of red flags going off with this guy. Might I suggest you try out some of the fine vendors listed in the banner adds next time.

By the way great SN.:thumbsup:

Ed

oef24
08-14-2010, 9:53 AM
I just want to warn all Calgunners of Felex, American Vintage Inc. and his unsavory business practices. I was in the market for a POF P308, found his site, and gave him a shot (no pun intended). We agreed on an out the door price and he told me that a credit card purchase would carry a 3.6% sur charge, but that a bank transfer was free and I could do it from the comfort of my own house. I called him back the next day as a courtesy to confirm our agreed on price and now the price has gone up. He tells me there is in fact a $20 fee for an account transfer that somehow slipped his mind. While a new price after being quoted a price is not in and of itself a deal breaker, though poor business practice, what is of concern is that just the day before Felex regaled me with his exploits of attention to detail and how he is anal and never makes mistakes blah blah blah. Next he tells me that he does not have the weapon that we discussed in stock but that he does have another weapon with a different finish and barrel length in and assures me that I'll be very happy with this weapon. I tell him that on his site he is auctioning the weapon that I want and ask why if he is such a detail oriented individual why is there one list of inventory on his site and another one when I speak with him. He has some elaborate story about how his dog is ill and how he knows that that particular weapon should be in within the next few weeks and so he can in good faith post that weapon as part of his inventory. All this aside I decide to move forward with a purchase and decide to bite the bullet (again no pun intended) and make the purchase on a credit card and try to minimize the risk as I have grown cautious from the past dealings with this seller but still want the weapon. He then tells me that he insist that I make the purchase via bank transfer and that he will not take a credit card from me due to the risks. Huh!?!?!?!?! I was not aware that the seller assumed any risk while selling an item via credit card. There is no way that the weapon will ship out in the next few days, plenty of time for the funds to clear, and if they don't clear he would just not ship the weapon, right?

I just want to warn all of you as I would appreciate the heads up from any of you. If this post is in the wrong section I apologize and please move it as necessary.

There is obviously something missing here. American Vintage, better known as AV Guns in Sarasota, FL is the largest POF dealer on the planet. His GunBroker auction feedback is 100% going back for many years.
I have purchased from him many times and have nothing but great things to say about the man. That is why I am saying that there is something missing. Why would you back out of a purchase for a $20 bank transfer fee? Something doesn't add up.
Like I said before, I have purchased from hm many times and have nothing but good things to say about him and his company.

O

Zomgie
08-14-2010, 11:05 AM
I agree that something doesn't add up. The not accepting CCs at all is definitely strange for an online broker, as is the not having a gun in stock that was auctioned.

If everything happened the way OP said it happened (no offense), then I would've backed out too.

ke6guj
08-14-2010, 11:12 AM
Huh!?!?!?!?! I was not aware that the seller assumed any risk while selling an item via credit card. There is no way that the weapon will ship out in the next few days, plenty of time for the funds to clear, and if they don't clear he would just not ship the weapon, right?
not commenting on the rest of it, but this part about the seller not having any risk, not true. Many vendors have had chargebacks for all kinds of reasons, after the merchadise has left the building.

-hanko
08-14-2010, 1:59 PM
I called him back the next day as a courtesy to confirm our agreed on price and now the price has gone up. He tells me there is in fact a $20 fee for an account transfer that somehow slipped his mind.

I tell him that on his site he is auctioning the weapon that I want and ask why if he is such a detail oriented individual why is there one list of inventory on his site and another one when I speak with him. He has some elaborate story about how his dog is ill and how he knows that that particular weapon should be in within the next few weeks and so he can in good faith post that weapon as part of his inventory.

All this aside I decide to move forward with a purchase and decide to bite the bullet (again no pun intended) and make the purchase on a credit card and try to minimize the risk as I have grown cautious from the past dealings with this seller but still want the weapon.

He then tells me that he insist that I make the purchase via bank transfer and that he will not take a credit card from me due to the risks.

I just want to warn all of you as I would appreciate the heads up from any of you.
I'm amazed that you need us to advise you of a 'heads up' given what you just posted.:confused::eek:

Yet you apparently disregard the bs since you can't live without the gun.

I'd suggest finding another vendor, maybe cdnn. Order the rifle from them, send it to a middleman ffl out of state if it needs mods before entering CA, and have the middleman ship to your ffl.

-hanko

bsg
08-14-2010, 2:35 PM
unless you insist... this one just wasn't meant to be. thanks for the info and i'd suggest you just move on to the next great deal....

wilit
08-14-2010, 2:37 PM
There is obviously something missing here. American Vintage, better known as AV Guns in Sarasota, FL is the largest POF dealer on the planet. His GunBroker auction feedback is 100% going back for many years.
I have purchased from him many times and have nothing but great things to say about the man. That is why I am saying that there is something missing. Why would you back out of a purchase for a $20 bank transfer fee? Something doesn't add up.
Like I said before, I have purchased from hm many times and have nothing but good things to say about him and his company.

O

Did you even read the entire post? The original poster did not back out because of the $20 fee. He backed out because of the shady things the American Vintage guy was doing/saying. Agreeing on a price, then adding to the cost the next day. Saying 1 day he'll take a credit card and the next saying he won't take a credit card. Agreeing to sell a specific model of rifle then the next day say he doesn't have it. Very shady.

oef24
08-14-2010, 9:05 PM
Did you even read the entire post? The original poster did not back out because of the $20 fee. He backed out because of the shady things the American Vintage guy was doing/saying. Agreeing on a price, then adding to the cost the next day. Saying 1 day he'll take a credit card and the next saying he won't take a credit card. Agreeing to sell a specific model of rifle then the next day say he doesn't have it. Very shady.

I did read the entire post by the OP and from my experience, there is something missing. I have never had the problems the OP is describing. The rifle he wanted as I understand was in stock. I just bought a rifle from AV Guns last week and can vouch that his dog (which can be found on almost all his Gun Broker auctions) is in fact very sick. All I am saying is that there is definitely something that all of us are missing.
If I was a seller and negotiations were not going well, I too would not take a CC from somebody. Especially when the negotiation started with a bank wire. $20 bank wire fee is not a deal breaker by no means. If a seller is not comfortable doing business with someone, it is his or her right to not sell to you and it is your right to go elsewhere.
I am sure that if we all knew the 3 sides to the story, it would be different. Right now, as I see it, it is one sided by the OP. We need the other side and then the truth.

O

Ed.
08-15-2010, 11:52 AM
I did read the entire post by the OP and from my experience, there is something missing. I have never had the problems the OP is describing. The rifle he wanted as I understand was in stock. I just bought a rifle from AV Guns last week and can vouch that his dog (which can be found on almost all his Gun Broker auctions) is in fact very sick. All I am saying is that there is definitely something that all of us are missing.
If I was a seller and negotiations were not going well, I too would not take a CC from somebody. Especially when the negotiation started with a bank wire. $20 bank wire fee is not a deal breaker by no means. If a seller is not comfortable doing business with someone, it is his or her right to not sell to you and it is your right to go elsewhere.
I am sure that if we all knew the 3 sides to the story, it would be different. Right now, as I see it, it is one sided by the OP. We need the other side and then the truth.

O

You know what, you are absolutely right, something is missing and it is the emails Felex and I sent back and forth. Read them and tell me what you think. Bear in mind that Felex does not have a very good grasp of the english language and is at times very very hard to follow. The only items I edited out are both of our email addresses. Enjoy.

From:
Subject: RE: POF
Date: August 12, 2010 11:06:59 AM PDT
To: Ed

PS. 20" BLK just arrived ..
If U can take a moment to call some one to deal with then I realy dont need
to deal with you as well..As I don't need the aggravation...My reputation in
Gun Commutate and on GB speaks for itself..

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 12:46 PM
To: American Vintage Inc.
Subject: Re: POF

I'm going to pass. I am an OIF and OEF veteran and attention to detail
is very very important to me. The forgetting of the fee while
upsetting, can be overlooked. Taken along with the inconsistencies
between our email correspondence and your items listed on the site is
cause for doubt and concern. Especially considering the dollar amount,
the fact that a firearm is included and the great distance between
both you and I as far as handling any possible issues that may arise.
Best of luck to you in all your future endeavors.

Regards,
Ed Morris

On Aug 12, 2010, at 9:34 AM, American Vintage Inc. wrote:

Call me..

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 12:30 PM
To: American Vintage Inc.
Subject: Re: POF

No biggie on the change in price. Though typically bad practice.
Your site
says 20" black in stock but your email says not in stock.



On Aug 12, 2010, at 9:15 AM, "American Vintage Inc."
wrote:

Lets see... $2399 + CA $35 + Sh + $45 + $10 (take mag a part) + $20
for
the
wire transfer.. Yes I know that I did not say anything about the
fee for
the
wire.. Sorry I totally forgot about it.. That is what it cost me..
Your
total :$2509.
See my last em for in what is stock and availability..
Please call me if you need to speak with me..
Tnx and looking forward to hearing from you..
Madd1
1-941-524-9607..

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 12:05 PM
To: American Vintage Inc.
Subject: Re: POF

So we are all good for a P308 20" in black all said and done $2,489
even? You have that in stock? I will transfer money as soon as I get
your response.

On Aug 12, 2010, at 4:39 AM, American Vintage Inc. wrote:

Thet we can do..

AMERICAN VINTAGE.
SARASOTA, FL

1-941-524-9607 CELL
1-941-351-2721 FAX

AVGUNS.COM
AVGUNSHOP.COM

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 12:47 AM
To: American Vintage Inc.
Subject: Re: POF

I'll take this one #184495141



On Aug 11, 2010, at 6:30 PM, "American Vintage Inc." wrote:

Ed..
Glad U said blk ..
I was under impression as to NP3..(Silver)
Sorry no 16" Blk all gone..
Do have a 14.7" with perm hider. Total 16" and is the shortest you
can
have
with out CL3..
Hope this will work for you..
If not I will have 16" soon..
Felex.

AMERICAN VINTAGE.
SARASOTA, FL

1-941-524-9607 CELL
1-941-351-2721 FAX

AVGUNS.COM
AVGUNSHOP.COM

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 9:21 PM
To: American Vintage Inc.
Subject: POF

Just to make sure we are on the same page. I'm ordering a POF
P308 in
black
with a 16" barrel. If we are all good I'll transfer funds in the
morning.

Regards,
Ed

oef24
08-15-2010, 12:23 PM
Ed,

The emails you posted shed some more light on the subject although it is hard to understand because the time and date stamps are all mixed up. It looks like the black 20" rifle you were looking for was not in stock and then it arrived the next day. Then the $20 wire fee and somewhere in there, the deal fell through. It looks like you got a little upset at the fee but it shouldn't have been a deal breaker for either party in my opinion. Why didn't you go ahead with the original deal and wire the money? His reputation on GunBroker is immaculate and is the largest dealer of the brand you were in the market for? I hope you get the rifle you were in the market for because I own one and it is the most accurate .308 semi-auto I have ever fired. FYI, if and when you get it, put some good glass on it.

O

AndreTwin
08-15-2010, 1:50 PM
Ed.
I can see that you posted some emails & somehow think that you were screwed to the point that you had to make this entire post of unsavory business practices from AV Guns.
But if I was to read your original comment & word for word understand it. I don't see any problems other then you are one of those difficult customers that we retailers get to deal with from time to time.
First of all AV Guns were advertising a weapon that might not have been available to ship ASAP but they however had such weapon either on it's way to them or maybe as a consignment to some other broker, who knows bottom line that weapon was going to be available if not today then 2 weeks from today tops! There is nothing wrong with that kind of business practice 1000s of top dealers do it & some even are willing to drop ship because they might not have it in stock at time of posting an ad.
That however is not an issue here because you have agreed to buy a different weapon in which case I am more then sure you gave Felix more then enough reasons to reconsider taking Credit Card from you. I my self as a retail businessman practice the same theory (better safe then sorry) If I feel that the buyer might give me problems I rather have Bank transfer, MO or Cashiers Check. As for $20 wire transfer fee, well my friend that is a laughing matter. Why should a seller cover it? So the seller forgot to mention it (BIG DEAL) the seller never said anything about covering it either!!!
Look. I don't know about you & to be honest I don't give much F*ck. But to post some complete incriminating post to discredit someone & use your case as example is a complete JOKE! I am willing to bet that If Felix was to shine some light on that issue & tell his side of the story & provide his emails, everyone reading your post would see that there are cases out there where a costumer is just an idiot & no matter what you do he/she will always see you as a villain (I am speaking from my personal experience).
Just to squash the whole thing here is my look at Felix of AVGuns.
His English is excellent & trust me I communicate with people all over USA!
He is by far the most honest individual I've ever done business with as a matter of fact when I bought my first POF & LWRC from Felix NO ONE had them in stock & to add more to the matter NO ONE WANTED to even deal with CA residents! (Even Felix wasn't thrilled to work with CA back in those days & I cant blame him) However I was persistent enough & Felix was honorable to make that deal happen & ever since that moment I had purchased many weapons from Felix for personal use & my business as well. I even refereed many friends who bought from AV Guns & they were thrilled to finally work with someone who could take care of them & deal with them on individual bases who was knowledgeable unlike an average Gun Dealer out there. While dealing with AV Guns you get the entire experience not just a great deal but you get a great advice & a friend you can always turn to in case of problems with weapons or just to see what's NEW!
From Experience I got a POF for my Father as a present & the weapon had problem ejecting empty cases do to bore being to tight that was a POF factory defect. I called POF & was told that it will take 6-10 weeks before they can have my weapon fixed & returned back to me (Do to an overload OBAMA just became a President, Remember?) Anyhow I contacted Felix & only mentioned the issue & the guy jumped right on top of it he made a phone call to POF then told me to send the weapon in with ATT TO: forgot the name of the person but anyhow I did that & my weapon was back in phenomenal working order in less then a week that's considering 4 days while in transit.
So as for my self Felix & AVguns are the best!
Where as people like you Ed being in my situation would blame everything on Felix for sending you a broken weapon or what ever the the case you would make one up. You would still blame AV Guns just because you are that kind of Customer/Individual!!!

So Grow Up not in every business the customer is always right. I am more then sure that you were a ***** in the first place & only hope Felix can take time & shine some light on that issue. If I am wrong about you I will apologize but somehow I highly doubt it!

Ed.
08-15-2010, 2:23 PM
While I am amazed at your insight and willingness to jump straight to insults I will still take what you are saying into consideration. By the way his name is Felex with an E. I am not sure how you got that I am some, how did you so eloquently put it, oh right a ***** from reading my post or the emails that Felex and I exchanged. I was not pleased with my experience and just wanted to make others aware of it. Is that so wrong? If it is the general opinion that I should keep my experiences to myself I will delete the post and not comment on any bad experiences I may have in the future. I am not here to cast insults and take cheap shots at people and I am not sure why you have chosen to resort to that kind of childish behavior and would certainly think twice about doing business with someone that does. I did not come on here and call anyone a *****, if something is going on in your life and coming on here and calling someone names and deliberately missing the point or avoiding the facts posted in black and white in all their glory somehow helps with your stress then by all means call me whatever you want. I am not offended by your behavior and if it helps you deal with your angst then I am happy to help because in my opinion that is what members of a community should do for each other.

Shame on you "Andre". I just saw your join date and your post count. I smell something rather unsavory here.

AndreTwin
08-15-2010, 3:09 PM
While I am amazed at your insight and willingness to jump straight to insults I will still take what you are saying into consideration. By the way his name is Felex with an E. I am not sure how you got that I am some, how did you so eloquently put it, oh right a ***** from reading my post or the emails that Felex and I exchanged. I was not pleased with my experience and just wanted to make others aware of it. Is that so wrong? If it is the general opinion that I should keep my experiences to myself I will delete the post and not comment on any bad experiences I may have in the future. I am not here to cast insults and take cheap shots at people and I am not sure why you have chosen to resort to that kind of childish behavior and would certainly think twice about doing business with someone that does. I did not come on here and call anyone a *****, if something is going on in your life and coming on here and calling someone names and deliberately missing the point or avoiding the facts posted in black and white in all their glory somehow helps with your stress then by all means call me whatever you want. I am not offended by your behavior and if it helps you deal with your angst then I am happy to help because in my opinion that is what members of a community should do for each other.

Shame on you "Andre". I just saw your join date and your post count. I smell something rather unsavory here.

WOW. Aren't we quick to respond & even mentioning my join date.
OK Mr. Drama Queen!
I never posted here in my life, have visited & my buddy is the one who forwarded this post to me since he knows I buy all my guns from AV Guns he though it would be fair for someone who actually deals with AV Guns to clear things up. That said, have you my fragile minded & easily offended friend ever purchased anything from AV Guns. (And be honest because I am at the point where I am about to contact Felix my self. to get to the bottom of this & expose you)
Who cares Felix or Felex why wont you ask him who AndreTwin from Cali is & he has my entire permission to disclose all the business that I have done with him in the past & still doing today. Also how many customers that I've sent to him who are happy & great full to me that I guided them to someone like Felix & AV Guns.
As I said before you are one of those people who are difficult individual to deal with & so far you haven't given me any reasons to think otherwise. You only got offhanded just like I though you would. I never called you a ***** I only used it as a scenario. I even offered my appologies if I was wrong about anything I posted. But given your case & scenario of dealing with AV Guns you simply don't have enough to post "BEWARE OF AMERICAN VINTAGE" you are an overreacting drama queen!
I bet you never even bought a weapon from AV Guns you only wasted time with your Drama!

-hanko
08-15-2010, 5:42 PM
WOW. Aren't we quick to respond & even mentioning my join date.
OK Mr. Drama Queen!
I never posted here in my life, have visited & my buddy is the one who forwarded this post to me since he knows I buy all my guns from AV Guns he though it would be fair for someone who actually deals with AV Guns to clear things up. That said, have you my fragile minded & easily offended friend ever purchased anything from AV Guns. (And be honest because I am at the point where I am about to contact Felix my self. to get to the bottom of this & expose you)
Who cares Felix or Felex why wont you ask him who AndreTwin from Cali is & he has my entire permission to disclose all the business that I have done with him in the past & still doing today. Also how many customers that I've sent to him who are happy & great full to me that I guided them to someone like Felix & AV Guns.
As I said before you are one of those people who are difficult individual to deal with & so far you haven't given me any reasons to think otherwise. You only got offhanded just like I though you would. I never called you a ***** I only used it as a scenario. I even offered my appologies if I was wrong about anything I posted. But given your case & scenario of dealing with AV Guns you simply don't have enough to post "BEWARE OF AMERICAN VINTAGE" you are an overreacting drama queen!
I bet you never even bought a weapon from AV Guns you only wasted time with your Drama!
:sleeping:

Rant score 1.0
No critical thinking skills.
Skips rational arguments on the merits of his comments and proceeds directly to vulgar personal attacks.
Most likely a libtard troll because of the personal attack angle.
Libtard fear about his personal popularity is clearly evident in this post.
Tactics used include objectification, marginalization, and obfuscation.
Clearly missing is any substantive discussion of conservative principals versus Liberal feel good whining.
Overall a very poor showing for a rant and an excellent example of intellectual vacuity.;)

Interesting post from someone who has no dog in this fight.;) There's just got to be more than a buyer/seller relationship here...care to share the details?:)

I've bought a lot of weapons via online sales including a few in the 5-figure range...I've never been asked for a wire transfer. Usually I send usps mo's or a certified check from my bank for biggies. Idiot's who have a surcharge for credit card payments may perhaps lose their ability to accept cc's. Which credit cards does Felex accept??

I'll have your post on arfcom, hkpro, thr, and just about any other board I can think of just a little later.

-hanko

daveinwoodland
08-15-2010, 6:15 PM
I smell a rat as well, mispellings and grammar were the clue.

G17GUY
08-15-2010, 6:20 PM
Ed.
I can see that you posted some emails & somehow think that you were screwed to the point that you had to make this entire post of unsavory business practices from AV Guns.
But if I was to read your original comment & word for word understand it. I don't see any problems other then you are one of those difficult customers that we retailers get to deal with from time to time.
First of all AV Guns were advertising a weapon that might not have been available to ship ASAP but they however had such weapon either on it's way to them or maybe as a consignment to some other broker, who knows bottom line that weapon was going to be available if not today then 2 weeks from today tops! There is nothing wrong with that kind of business practice 1000s of top dealers do it & some even are willing to drop ship because they might not have it in stock at time of posting an ad.
That however is not an issue here because you have agreed to buy a different weapon in which case I am more then sure you gave Felix more then enough reasons to reconsider taking Credit Card from you. I my self as a retail businessman practice the same theory (better safe then sorry) If I feel that the buyer might give me problems I rather have Bank transfer, MO or Cashiers Check. As for $20 wire transfer fee, well my friend that is a laughing matter. Why should a seller cover it? So the seller forgot to mention it (BIG DEAL) the seller never said anything about covering it either!!!
Look. I don't know about you & to be honest I don't give much F*ck. But to post some complete incriminating post to discredit someone & use your case as example is a complete JOKE! I am willing to bet that If Felix was to shine some light on that issue & tell his side of the story & provide his emails, everyone reading your post would see that there are cases out there where a costumer is just an idiot & no matter what you do he/she will always see you as a villain (I am speaking from my personal experience).
Just to squash the whole thing here is my look at Felix of AVGuns.
His English is excellent & trust me I communicate with people all over USA!
He is by far the most honest individual I've ever done business with as a matter of fact when I bought my first POF & LWRC from Felix NO ONE had them in stock & to add more to the matter NO ONE WANTED to even deal with CA residents! (Even Felix wasn't thrilled to work with CA back in those days & I cant blame him) However I was persistent enough & Felix was honorable to make that deal happen & ever since that moment I had purchased many weapons from Felix for personal use & my business as well. I even refereed many friends who bought from AV Guns & they were thrilled to finally work with someone who could take care of them & deal with them on individual bases who was knowledgeable unlike an average Gun Dealer out there. While dealing with AV Guns you get the entire experience not just a great deal but you get a great advice & a friend you can always turn to in case of problems with weapons or just to see what's NEW!
From Experience I got a POF for my Father as a present & the weapon had problem ejecting empty cases do to bore being to tight that was a POF factory defect. I called POF & was told that it will take 6-10 weeks before they can have my weapon fixed & returned back to me (Do to an overload OBAMA just became a President, Remember?) Anyhow I contacted Felix & only mentioned the issue & the guy jumped right on top of it he made a phone call to POF then told me to send the weapon in with ATT TO: forgot the name of the person but anyhow I did that & my weapon was back in phenomenal working order in less then a week that's considering 4 days while in transit.
So as for my self Felix & AVguns are the best!
Where as people like you Ed being in my situation would blame everything on Felix for sending you a broken weapon or what ever the the case you would make one up. You would still blame AV Guns just because you are that kind of Customer/Individual!!!

So Grow Up not in every business the customer is always right. I am more then sure that you were a ***** in the first place & only hope Felix can take time & shine some light on that issue. If I am wrong about you I will apologize but somehow I highly doubt it!

:ban:

G17GUY
08-15-2010, 6:21 PM
WOW. Aren't we quick to respond & even mentioning my join date.
OK Mr. Drama Queen!
I never posted here in my life, have visited & my buddy is the one who forwarded this post to me since he knows I buy all my guns from AV Guns he though it would be fair for someone who actually deals with AV Guns to clear things up. That said, have you my fragile minded & easily offended friend ever purchased anything from AV Guns. (And be honest because I am at the point where I am about to contact Felix my self. to get to the bottom of this & expose you)
Who cares Felix or Felex why wont you ask him who AndreTwin from Cali is & he has my entire permission to disclose all the business that I have done with him in the past & still doing today. Also how many customers that I've sent to him who are happy & great full to me that I guided them to someone like Felix & AV Guns.
As I said before you are one of those people who are difficult individual to deal with & so far you haven't given me any reasons to think otherwise. You only got offhanded just like I though you would. I never called you a ***** I only used it as a scenario. I even offered my appologies if I was wrong about anything I posted. But given your case & scenario of dealing with AV Guns you simply don't have enough to post "BEWARE OF AMERICAN VINTAGE" you are an overreacting drama queen!
I bet you never even bought a weapon from AV Guns you only wasted time with your Drama!

Well, good job. I'll never buy from avguns.com

CSACANNONEER
08-15-2010, 6:25 PM
I just want to warn all Calgunners of Felex, American Vintage Inc. and his unsavory business practices. I was in the market for a POF P308, found his site, and gave him a shot (no pun intended). We agreed on an out the door price and he told me that a credit card purchase would carry a 3.6% sur charge, but that a bank transfer was free and I could do it from the comfort of my own house. I called him back the next day as a courtesy to confirm our agreed on price and now the price has gone up. He tells me there is in fact a $20 fee for an account transfer that somehow slipped his mind. While a new price after being quoted a price is not in and of itself a deal breaker, though poor business practice, what is of concern is that just the day before Felex regaled me with his exploits of attention to detail and how he is anal and never makes mistakes blah blah blah. Next he tells me that he does not have the weapon that we discussed in stock but that he does have another weapon with a different finish and barrel length in and assures me that I'll be very happy with this weapon. I tell him that on his site he is auctioning the weapon that I want and ask why if he is such a detail oriented individual why is there one list of inventory on his site and another one when I speak with him. He has some elaborate story about how his dog is ill and how he knows that that particular weapon should be in within the next few weeks and so he can in good faith post that weapon as part of his inventory. All this aside I decide to move forward with a purchase and decide to bite the bullet (again no pun intended) and make the purchase on a credit card and try to minimize the risk as I have grown cautious from the past dealings with this seller but still want the weapon. He then tells me that he insist that I make the purchase via bank transfer and that he will not take a credit card from me due to the risks. Huh!?!?!?!?! I was not aware that the seller assumed any risk while selling an item via credit card. There is no way that the weapon will ship out in the next few days, plenty of time for the funds to clear, and if they don't clear he would just not ship the weapon, right?

I just want to warn all of you as I would appreciate the heads up from any of you. If this post is in the wrong section I apologize and please move it as necessary.

Without going any further, this is in fact illegal. So, I don't blame you for wondering if he has other illegal or unethical bussiness practices. Yea, I know that CC surcharges are not uncommon but niether are illegal drugs, hookers, etc.

AndreTwin
08-15-2010, 7:33 PM
hanko.
I am not trying to start an argument I am only offering my opinion. Since when do I have to have a DOG in this just to post my opinion & shine some light on my experience & experience of others who I know had dealings with AV Guns.
I simply don't see any of unsavory business practices in this case! Plain & Simple. I see one easily offended & very difficult customer to deal with, the one who will blow things up out of proportion & get very emotional when nothing even happened yet. NO money taken, no transaction complete it was still in the negotiations stage!

And now for you my friend. I am glad that you have purchased some guns in the 5-figure range as you put it. But have you ever sold anything & then had a customer try to defraud you or get a charge back do to problems with customer trying to dispute the charge, while the item is out the door & in the customers possession?
Probably NOT! Because if you have & had gone threw headache of dealing with those cases you would see things much different!

As I said you need to have a valid reason to post a link about someone's unsavory business practices or actually be taken for a ride like stories you hear of money taken & no guns received such as nightmare with B&B when they were going out of business. Ed clearly overreacted, the guy made a huge deal of AV Guns advertising a gun that they didn't have in their possession but did however have that weapon on its way to them & when offered & alternative weapon he agreed to buy it but then started complaining about $20 wire transfer. I am more then sure there were plenty of reasons & red flags that gave Felix a reason to change his mind & switch to Bank Transfer rather then do Credit Card!

There are many guys who love to post things & blow things up out of DRAMA! Ed is one of those kind of people & he still hasn't given me a reason to think otherwise, he only made things worse by getting offended which only reassured my original view of him.

I said "I am more then sure that you were a ***** in the first place & only hope Felix can take time & shine some light on that issue. If I am wrong about you I will apologize but somehow I highly doubt it!"

An all of the sudden Ed said I called him ***** when I didn't call him anything I only used my experience dealing with people in retail business & out of 300 customers you will get that one DRAMA QUEEN who will take things way to literally & blow things out of proporsion. That's just their nature & nothing we can do about it!

Is funny how eveyone that have dealt with AV Guns has nothing but good things to say about Felix even on thins thread. I can forward thins link to all my buddies who bought from Felix & willing to make a bet that you will see at least ten new members shining their light on how awesome their experience dealing with AV Guns & Felix was & still is.


Look. Felix is an awesome guy & takes great care of all of his CUSTOMERS! THAT IS A FACT! Everything elce is a DRAMA created by DRAMA QUEENS & holds nothing but he said she said behind it! NO TRANSACTION TOOK PLACE, NO MONEY WAS EVER TAKEN!

Just a little simple fact that Ed is posting "Shame on you "Andre". I just saw your join date and your post count. I smell something rather unsavory here." Don't you see how much of a drama queen & at this point safe to say ***** he is!
Look Ed I will go back to my normal life & stop posting here. Being that I never posted here in the first place I only visited this forum to read some posts from time to time. BUT your BS post of trying to discredit & villifi one of the best Weapons Dealers in US taken in to consideration that you never even dealt with AV Guns you never bought from them! So as I said I am sure whatever you said & the way you said it was the main reason for Felix OH I am sorry FelEx to reconsider taking a Credit Card from you. You my friend need to Grow Up & not take things so literally. Keep emotions out of it its all business! Take Care!

AndreTwin
08-15-2010, 8:29 PM
Without going any further, this is in fact illegal. So, I don't blame you for wondering if he has other illegal or unethical bussiness practices. Yea, I know that CC surcharges are not uncommon but niether are illegal drugs, hookers, etc.

OK. As a merchant I will gladly explain. While dealing with RETAIL business yes any kind of surcharge just for type of payment is in fact illegal. So we don't do it. But then again our profit margin is from 50%-100% thus we can afford to pay any merchant rates etc or provide discounts for $$$ buyers.

Now in WHOLESALE industry things are a bit different being that their profit margin is much lower & some times in some fields is only 2-3% they simply cant afford to cover any extra merchant fees! Weapons business is that type of business where after all the BS, paperwork & requirements profit margin is slim & wont give you room to cover merchant fees on top of already low profit margin. It's pretty standard & common cense!
I hope I cleared things up!

prob
08-15-2010, 10:58 PM
I said "I am more then sure that you were a ***** in the first place & only hope Felix can take time & shine some light on that issue. If I am wrong about you I will apologize but somehow I highly doubt it!"

An all of the sudden Ed said I called him ***** when I didn't call him anything I only used my experience dealing with people in retail business & out of 300 customers you will get that one DRAMA QUEEN who will take things way to literally & blow things out of proporsion. That's just their nature & nothing we can do about it!


I think any sentient being with the capacity for rational thought would have come to the same conclusion as the OP. And talk about blowing things out of proportion, aren't you overreacting just a bit?

AndreTwin
08-15-2010, 11:39 PM
I smell a rat as well, mispellings and grammar were the clue.

The clue to what? I am out of Los Angeles CA. And if you were in Automotive high performance & racing industry you would have known me. Specially if you were in Porsche market. I am a co-founder of IPD (Innovative Pro Design) company that makes intake plenums. I also own quite a few performance cars & trucks.
You can just Google me, my profile name is the same on all forums from 6speedonline.com & Pistonheads to syty.net. Even YouTube same name AndreTwin.
Sorry to inform you BUT NOT RATS to smell. I am a legit customer, weapons collector & enthusiast.
Actual AV Guns customer who is happy with their service. I am not here to advertise I am here to set the record straight!

Sorry for grammar & spelling. I am from Europe and am fluent in 4 languages. So sorry my English is not good enough to you!

AndreTwin
08-15-2010, 11:47 PM
I think any sentient being with the capacity for rational thought would have come to the same conclusion as the OP. And talk about blowing things out of proportion, aren't you overreacting just a bit?

If you think I was overreacting on that then what would you call Posting "American Vintage Inc. BEWARE!!! thread?
Come on guys nothing happened. the guy never paid for it the transaction never even took place. There was literally nothing bad done to either party. It was a negotiations that went wrong. And somehow Mr. Drama had to make a huge deal about it & post this completely misleading & misinforming one sided post! Just think of it "American Vintage Inc. BEWARE!!!" Beware of what?

n556
08-16-2010, 6:42 PM
Everyone please excuse Andre' ... he's really a good guy. He's just been going through some tough times with the Economy.

Shawn L
08-16-2010, 7:26 PM
Wow AndreTwin take a :chillpill:

wilit
08-16-2010, 8:00 PM
The clue to what? I am out of Los Angeles CA. And if you were in Automotive high performance & racing industry you would have known me. Specially if you were in Porsche market. I am a co-founder of IPD (Innovative Pro Design) company that makes intake plenums. I also own quite a few performance cars & trucks.
You can just Google me, my profile name is the same on all forums from 6speedonline.com & Pistonheads to syty.net. Even YouTube same name AndreTwin.

Okay, let's see how active you are on those forums...
6speedonline.com (http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/member.php?u=28751) - Registered 11-8-2008 and 0 posts

Pistonheads.com (http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?memberId=185571[/url) - Registered 11-23-09 and 0 posts

Syty.net (http://www.syty.net/forums/member.php?u=5873) - Registered 7-20-2006 and 80 posts

Not exactly what I'd call super involved in those forums. I certainly wouldn't say you're well known based on those 3 forums.


I am not here to advertise I am here to set the record straight!


Exactly what record are you setting straight? The original poster had a bad experience with the shop and let everyone know about it. If you had a good experience with the shop, good for you. Why don't you start your own thread and let everyone know why it's a good shop to deal with?

AndreTwin
08-17-2010, 12:47 AM
Everyone please excuse Andre' ... he's really a good guy. He's just been going through some tough times with the Economy.

My sincere apologies for taking it a bit to far. But I still have hard time believing that one sided story of an incident that didn't even hurt, defraud & con anyone carries enough velocity to be posted as American Vintage BEWARE! Ed had to say something or conduct him self in a way that made this negotiations go bad. You see tons of reply's generated from one negative post. But you completely miss the thousands of great customers who just don't post. I never post usually just way to busy.

freonr22
08-17-2010, 12:51 AM
but no comment on [quote]Okay, let's see how active you are on those forums...
6speedonline.com (http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/member.php?u=28751) - Registered 11-8-2008 and 0 posts

Pistonheads.com (http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?memberId=185571[/url) - Registered 11-23-09 and 0 posts

Syty.net (http://www.syty.net/forums/member.php?u=5873) - Registered 7-20-2006 and 80 posts

Not exactly what I'd call super involved in those forums. I certainly wouldn't say you're well known based on those 3 forums.[/endquote] You can just Google me, my profile name is the same on all forums from 6speedonline.com & Pistonheads to syty.net. Even YouTube same name AndreTwin.

AndreTwin
08-17-2010, 1:13 AM
Okay, let's see how active you are on those forums...
6speedonline.com (http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/member.php?u=28751) - Registered 11-8-2008 and 0 posts

Pistonheads.com (http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?memberId=185571[/url) - Registered 11-23-09 and 0 posts

Syty.net (http://www.syty.net/forums/member.php?u=5873) - Registered 7-20-2006 and 80 posts

Not exactly what I'd call super involved in those forums. I certainly wouldn't say you're well known based on those 3 forums.



Exactly what record are you setting straight? The original poster had a bad experience with the shop and let everyone know about it. If you had a good experience with the shop, good for you. Why don't you start your own thread and let everyone know why it's a good shop to deal with?

Somehow some folks though that I might be Felix from AV Guns just because of my grammar & spelling. I used my profile to show that I am not Felix but in fact am one of his actual customers. As I said before.
My sincere apologies for taking it a bit to far.
I never post usually just way to busy.
So I hope WILIT that explains why I never post.
Yes. I am a member of many many automotive forums & visit many forums just to read posts. Just like this one here. I've visited many times I just never posted until a friend of mine forwarded me this post. I am providing my opinion as an actual customer that's how I set the record straight. I want people to know that Felix of AV Guns is a good guy & not to take this post as turn away from doing business with them, You don't have to buy from AV Guns but at least look at the whole picture. As someone here said there are 3 sides to this story OPs, AV Guns & TRUTH & we only know one & are making HUGE deal about it.
OK guys it's been fun. Didn't mean to start an of subject post & going back to my normal life, bills, cars, tunning, dynos, racing, fabrication, chasing my customers for the $$$ they owe me LOL & most importantly family & friends!
Best Regards. AndreTwin.

Just one last thing to answer to freonr22's comment. VRAlexander May He Rest In Peace. Was huge on posting & forum involvements. But I was one of the guys responsible for making his 1000HP 996TT become reality as well as guys like Craig Marcus & his 996TT I did all the design & fabrication on the Y-Pipe with alchol injections & silinoids & our first big TB Plenum.
Here is the link to his car.
http://www.europeancarweb.com/features/0607_ec_2002_porsche_911_turbo/index.html
Bottom line freonr22 there are guys who have the time & perhaps luxury to post 4600 posts & guys like me who don't have the time nor desire to do it. Out of all the big boys I know in Automotive industry only about 5% who visit forums & post stuff. Everyone has different life & priories. You can't assume someone is not active in the industry just because they DON'T POST!
OK Guys. once again it's been fun & a bit stressful I must admit. But lets leave in on the good note.
It's been a pleasure!

Fornax
08-18-2010, 8:46 AM
AV GUNS is a very professional shop.
They have made my purchase's by credit-card to California in a smooth
and timely manner, so smooth the FFL dealer I went through now orders
POF items from AV GUNS.
Ownership of a POF rifle in California is a privilege not a right.
Thanks to Felex at AVGUNS it's all possible!
My communication from the start with Felex was the same as talking with a best-friend thus making a high dollar purchase across country an enjoyable
experience.
Fornax.

vega
08-18-2010, 12:41 PM
..........Is funny how eveyone that have dealt with AV Guns has nothing but good things to say about Felix even on thins thread. I can forward thins link to all my buddies who bought from Felix & willing to make a bet that you will see at least ten new members shining their light on how awesome their experience dealing with AV Guns & Felix was & still is.
........

AV GUNS is a very professional shop.
They have made my purchase's by credit-card to California in a smooth
and timely manner, so smooth the FFL dealer I went through now orders
POF items from AV GUNS.
Ownership of a POF rifle in California is a privilege not a right.
Thanks to Felex at AVGUNS it's all possible!
My communication from the start with Felex was the same as talking with a best-friend thus making a high dollar purchase across country an enjoyable
experience.
Fornax.


That's one, nine more to go.:D

SCCD/DDS
08-18-2010, 7:21 PM
I think AV Gun's track record just with Gunbroker alone speaks for its self!
I haven't found more reputable dealer who is willing to work with California.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewUserFeedback.aspx?User=728868

beetle
08-18-2010, 8:10 PM
wheee -- two people with join dates of today, and their only post is how great AVguns is :rolleyes:

avguns might be a good dealer, but they seem to troll forums quite a bit.

check this posting on the lwrc forums
http://forum.lwrci.com/newforum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6608

quote from that thread
This post reads like a bad info-mercial for AVGuns. I'm glad that their shop is the only one around that can find super-rare coyote colored furniture and an ACOG! AVGuns has some of the most inflated prices out there, just go look at Gunbroker and see for yourself. I would have more respect for the company if they would just post an intro, and invite people to consider their business. Instead, it appears to me that they chose to post a fake satisfied-customer report. Shame on them.

oh, and that thread was started by someone with exactly 1 post. hmm, sound familiar?

Napalm Bulldog
08-18-2010, 10:52 PM
wheee -- two people with join dates of today, and their only post is how great AVguns is :rolleyes:

avguns might be a good dealer, but they seem to troll forums quite a bit.

check this posting on the lwrc forums
http://forum.lwrci.com/newforum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6608

quote from that thread


oh, and that thread was started by someone with exactly 1 post. hmm, sound familiar?

Hey atleast membership is looking up!:rofl2:

hybridatsun350
08-18-2010, 11:11 PM
http://a.imageshack.us/img816/1462/ohreally.gif

wheee -- two people with join dates of today, and their only post is how great AVguns is :rolleyes:

Lol. Exactly!

gump45
08-19-2010, 6:14 AM
OT: hybridatsun350

That animated gif in your post is both creepy and hilarious. :-)

-gump45

Colt-45
08-19-2010, 7:24 PM
Damn that sucks. Will look out for them.

Ed.
08-20-2010, 6:23 PM
wheee -- two people with join dates of today, and their only post is how great AVguns is :rolleyes:

avguns might be a good dealer, but they seem to troll forums quite a bit.

check this posting on the lwrc forums
http://forum.lwrci.com/newforum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6608

quote from that thread


oh, and that thread was started by someone with exactly 1 post. hmm, sound familiar?

Wow!! That is very very shady. I am happy to see that members are getting to see another side of AVGUNS, getting to see that my thread was not the product of bitterness but rather an effort to prevent other members from having to go through the same........or worse.

Sam Hainn
08-20-2010, 6:47 PM
I just want to warn all Calgunners of Felex, American Vintage Inc. and his unsavory business practices. I was in the market for a POF P308, found his site, and gave him a shot (no pun intended). We agreed on an out the door price and he told me that a credit card purchase would carry a 3.6% sur charge, but that a bank transfer was free and I could do it from the comfort of my own house. I called him back the next day as a courtesy to confirm our agreed on price and now the price has gone up. He tells me there is in fact a $20 fee for an account transfer that somehow slipped his mind. While a new price after being quoted a price is not in and of itself a deal breaker, though poor business practice, what is of concern is that just the day before Felex regaled me with his exploits of attention to detail and how he is anal and never makes mistakes blah blah blah. Next he tells me that he does not have the weapon that we discussed in stock but that he does have another weapon with a different finish and barrel length in and assures me that I'll be very happy with this weapon. I tell him that on his site he is auctioning the weapon that I want and ask why if he is such a detail oriented individual why is there one list of inventory on his site and another one when I speak with him. He has some elaborate story about how his dog is ill and how he knows that that particular weapon should be in within the next few weeks and so he can in good faith post that weapon as part of his inventory. All this aside I decide to move forward with a purchase and decide to bite the bullet (again no pun intended) and make the purchase on a credit card and try to minimize the risk as I have grown cautious from the past dealings with this seller but still want the weapon. He then tells me that he insist that I make the purchase via bank transfer and that he will not take a credit card from me due to the risks. Huh!?!?!?!?! I was not aware that the seller assumed any risk while selling an item via credit card. There is no way that the weapon will ship out in the next few days, plenty of time for the funds to clear, and if they don't clear he would just not ship the weapon, right?

I just want to warn all of you as I would appreciate the heads up from any of you. If this post is in the wrong section I apologize and please move it as necessary.

I read the whole thread. Based on the obvious; you were getting hosed. And I don't see anywhere that you were being unreasonable. The counter-points here are really elaborate but extremely weak; especially when I base it on the very simple points in your original post and the emails.

There may not even be anything fishy here either; just sloppy practices on the dealers part, which is still sufficient reason to walk away.

drjmaclean3
08-27-2010, 11:19 AM
I was greatly surprised to read the lengthy and odd negative review of AV Guns. I have known Felix for some time now and purchased numerous guns from him. I have ALWAYS found him to be 100% professional. Guns have shipped promptly and exactly as ordered. His prices are absolutely fair and he is an honest person. As a small businessman myself, I find the trivial issue of a merchant fee totally acceptable. I would recommend AV Guns to anyone. Plus, the added close connection he has to both LWRC and POF. You dont become an A rated dealer with them if you goof around. I will continue to do business with him and advise others to do the same.

Ed.
08-27-2010, 6:18 PM
I was greatly surprised to read the lengthy and odd negative review of AV Guns. I have known Felix for some time now and purchased numerous guns from him. I have ALWAYS found him to be 100% professional. Guns have shipped promptly and exactly as ordered. His prices are absolutely fair and he is an honest person. As a small businessman myself, I find the trivial issue of a merchant fee totally acceptable. I would recommend AV Guns to anyone. Plus, the added close connection he has to both LWRC and POF. You dont become an A rated dealer with them if you goof around. I will continue to do business with him and advise others to do the same.

I think you are missing the point. It is not about the small fee, it is about principal and many many other things. Once again a new member with a recent join date and one post. A bell with a familiar ring. On the other hand after opting out of the purchase with Felex I found a much more friendly, honest, straight shooting shop by the name of Hinterland Outfitters. I was quoted 3-5 weeks wait and the weapon showed up in three days. No BS, no bait and switch, no hidden fees, just the weapon I wanted at a better price than Felex claimed. I will pick up the weapon next Saturday and let you know how it shoots. I also purchased an HK USC from HK Parts just the other day. Another straight shooter. I want you all to know that I am not looking for a long meaningful relationship with these sellers. All I want is an honest fair dealing experience. Both Hinterland Outfitters and HK Parts gave me just that. No nonsense, bring the money and I'll provide the weapon attitudes. On another note if any of you would like to shoot either of these weapons, or any of my weapons for that matter, just shoot me a PM. I am not on here to slander AV guns in any way. My experience with Felex was terrible and he seems shady. I posted here to warn you of a bull**** seller with less than honest business practices. This is our community and I want nothing more than to be a valuable part of it. If I didn't warn others of this and read a post about how someone got hosed I would feel horrible knowing that I could have saved one of you the trouble had I just spoken up. I hope that you all can take that for what it's worth. Had my experience with AV guns been good I would be posting that, unfortunately it was not. FYI I own an LWRC M6A3 in 6.8 16" with a Geissle trigger that I purchased straight from LWRC. The weapon is amazing and they gave me a discount for being active duty. They are without a doubt a great company that provides a weapon that you can stake your life on. I am amazed every time I shoot it. I purchased an FN SCAR and a Bushmaster ACR from precision sports out of Osh Kosh. Another great seller. Not a bad word to say about them.

bsg
08-27-2010, 7:22 PM
this thread has been one strange journey....

Ed. i'm glad you ultimately got what you were looking for. :)

Turbinator
09-04-2010, 8:44 AM
not commenting on the rest of it, but this part about the seller not having any risk, not true. Many vendors have had chargebacks for all kinds of reasons, after the merchadise has left the building.

Yup - totally agree. Sellers carry a lot of risks.

Turby

Turbinator
09-04-2010, 8:45 AM
Once again a new member with a recent join date and one post.

Umm, not like your join date and post count is much better :)

Turby