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Dolk
08-13-2010, 9:43 PM
I need your help.

I have won a Spanish Bazooka on Gunbroker. I have been contacted by the owner and he has a person telling him he can't send that to California. It is "demilled to ATF specs". He needs to feel comfortable about sending it to me here and I told him I had already asked these forums if it was OK. So now I have him watching this thread and he will decide based on your responces here if he feels comfortable or not.

I would like to keep this "on topic" as much as possible. Please don't let this get into how to convert a Bazooka into a CO2 powered unit or how to make a bazooka please.

I know some of you guy have demilled Bazookas and I would love to hear from you guys.

Also, some one said they use them in reenactments here in CAL.

Also, if anyone knows any laws that might apply, either pro or con. I'm just looking for the truth and to make this guy and myself feel comfortable.

Thanks! I really appreciate it very much.

Would this apply?


12301 thru 12312 Destructive Devices
CHAPTER 2.5. DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES

* 12301. (a) The term "destructive device," as used in this chapter, shall include any of the following weapons: (1) Any projectile containing any explosive or incendiary material or any other chemical substance, including, but not limited to, that which is commonly known as tracer or incendiary ammunition, except tracer ammunition manufactured for use in shotguns. (2) Any bomb, grenade, explosive missile, or similar device or any launching device therefor. (3) Any weapon of a caliber greater than 0.60 caliber which fires fixed ammunition, or any ammunition therefor, other than a shotgun (smooth or rifled bore) conforming to the definition of a "destructive device" found in subsection (b) of Section 479.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, shotgun ammunition (single projectile or shot), antique rifle, or an antique cannon. For purposes of this section, the term "antique cannon" means any cannon manufactured before January 1, 1899, which has been rendered incapable of firing or for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. The term "antique rifle" means a firearm conforming to the definition of an "antique firearm" in Section 479.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations. (4) Any rocket, rocket-propelled projectile, or similar device of a diameter greater than 0.60 inch, or any launching device therefor, and any rocket, rocket-propelled projectile, or similar device containing any explosive or incendiary material or any other chemical substance, other than the propellant for that device, except those devices as are designed primarily for emergency or distress signaling purposes. (5) Any breakable container which contains a flammable liquid with a flashpoint of 150 degrees Fahrenheit or less and has a wick or similar device capable of being ignited, other than a device which is commercially manufactured primarily for the purpose of illumination. (6) Any sealed device containing dry ice (CO2) or other chemically reactive substances assembled for the purpose of causing an explosion by a chemical reaction. (b) The term "explosive," as used in this chapter, shall mean any explosive defined in Section 12000 of the Health and Safety Code.

Dolk

383green
08-13-2010, 9:50 PM
If it was still functional, then I believe it would be restricted under both federal and CA law. However, I am not aware of any federal or CA law restricting an item which has been rendered permanently nonfunctional to ATF's satisfaction. As I understand it, since the item in question has been demilitarized to ATF's satisfaction, it is no longer "...any launching device therefor...", and is not restricted by PC 12301.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer.

MP301
08-13-2010, 10:49 PM
Yes, as I have always understood it, once something is "demilled to ATF specs" it is just a hunk of metal and cant be considered one of those prohibited listed items. In order to render something permanently inop, it has to be done so as not to be easily returned to its previous state....

Look at it this way, you could go into your garage and make a non functioning replica of it. Would you be breaking the law? Only if the law stated it was illegal to make a replica. I think the same applies. The section you quoted says nothing about a replica. If it were illegal to posses something even if its rendered permanently inop, then I think it would state that.

I would say that calling DOJ might help, but its the luck of the draw whether the person on the phone has a clue or not.

glockwise2000
08-13-2010, 11:15 PM
I would say that calling DOJ might help, but its the luck of the draw whether the person on the phone has a clue or not.

Probably not. As usual.

Veggie
08-14-2010, 12:30 AM
It is no longer a weapon in its demilled/rendered inoperable form. It is now furniture/decoration.

PsychGuy274
08-14-2010, 12:42 AM
Is it functional? No.

Can it be made to be functional again without serious machining? No.

It's pretty much and old metal tube.

You're good to go. Enjoy!

IWc
08-14-2010, 12:55 AM
CANNOT BE SOLD TO RESIDENTS OF CALIFORNIA (http://www.centerfiresystems.com/BAZOOKA-S.aspx?utm_source=streamsend&utm_medium=email&utm_content=7221891&utm_campaign=Spanish%20Bazooka%20with%20Shield%20a nd%20Flat%20Rate%20Shipping%20of%20%249.99)

However... (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=2318661&postcount=13)

And others said... (http://www.cobracares.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2979&view=next&sid=281e58af4b870c5786fba4de2115d68b)

So, the problem is, there is no exception for DEMILLED in 12301 thru 12312 Destructive Devices.

thevic
08-14-2010, 12:59 AM
^^ thats probably just company policy

PsychGuy274
08-14-2010, 3:23 AM
So, the problem is, there is no exception for DEMILLED in 12301 thru 12312 Destructive Devices.

There doesn't have to be an exception. The penal code states what is illegal. If it isn't illegal, then it's legal.

If it is demilled, it is no longer a firearm/destructive device. Like I said before, it's a metal tube.

Dolk
08-14-2010, 7:19 AM
Good points. This is the problem with some of California's laws. They are misinterpreted way too often. One person will say no and the other vendors take it as law and next thing you know, you can't get one here (for no reason).

The other problem is, you will get a idiot DA that will read the "destructive device" law and say I don't care if you "demilled" it, it will always be a rocket launcher. I don't want to be the "test case" for bazookas :)

I know it's not a "rocket launcher" as it can't launch a rocket anymore. That is what I'm getting from this conversation. I don't see any other laws that might restrict it....anyone?

tankerman
08-14-2010, 8:16 AM
Try buying a prop or inert hand grenade in California.....it ain't happening.
Good points. This is the problem with some of California's laws. They are misinterpreted way too often. One person will say no and the other vendors take it as law and next thing you know, you can't get one here (for no reason).

The other problem is, you will get a idiot DA that will read the "destructive device" law and say I don't care if you "demilled" it, it will always be a rocket launcher. I don't want to be the "test case" for bazookas :)

I know it's not a "rocket launcher" as it can't launch a rocket anymore. That is what I'm getting from this conversation. I don't see any other laws that might restrict it....anyone?

DocSkinner
08-14-2010, 10:38 AM
It is no longer a weapon in its demilled/rendered inoperable form. It is now furniture/decoration.

or "non-functional replica" ?

motorhead
08-14-2010, 11:23 AM
demilled per atf=NOT A FIREARM. it's nothing more than attractive scrap metal. can be mailed, owned by minors and ex-cons, etc.. what it started life as is of no consequence.

hawk81
08-14-2010, 5:27 PM
It's legal, just like demilled machine guns are legal.

OleCuss
08-14-2010, 8:50 PM
I agree. If it is permanently unable to function as a weapon there just isn't any serious issue.

It is possible to take things to a ridiculous degree and argue that if someone draws a bazooka firing that this is somehow a bazooka as well? What's more you could be construed as threatening/brandishing?

When it's just an elaborate paperweight or maybe a candy storage device - it ain't illegal. Still not wise to drive around with it or point it at people. . .

But then, I'm not a lawyer and cannot give legal advice.

PsychGuy274
08-15-2010, 6:34 AM
Think about it this way, people get demilled AK-47 parts kits here all the time and those are legal.

"The powers that be" in Kalifornia might try and scare you like they do for everything concerning firearms, but at the end of the day - it is legal. LET MY PEOPLE HAVE ROCKET LAUNCHERS!!!