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WWDHD?
08-13-2010, 3:36 PM
I'm suprised it hasn't happened yet. Either a copy of an existing gun (maybe even a 1911!) or an original design. Or how about if an exisiting company like Glock or S&W moved production to China. Would you buy one?
I ask because almost EVERYTHING has gone this way except for the most part firearms. Is this still yet to come?

thevic
08-13-2010, 3:39 PM
isnt there a company polytec that makes chinese m1a's??

cudakidd
08-13-2010, 3:39 PM
Um...where have you been? This has already happened and in fact years ago!

Norinco among others makes 1897 Winchester clones, 1911 clones were available, as were copies of Walther competition pistols, Browning 22s, M1As, etc. And current production includes 1887 lever action shotguns. I have two of them and the 97 Trench Gun Clone. Very good quality in the current production runs!

Shotgun Man
08-13-2010, 3:39 PM
I'm suprised it hasn't happened yet. Either a copy of an existing gun (maybe even a 1911!) or an original design. Or how about if an exisiting company like Glock or S&W moved production to China. Would you buy one?
I ask because almost EVERYTHING has gone this way except for the most part firearms. Is this still yet to come?

Norinco makes 1911s and other models.

jonni
08-13-2010, 3:40 PM
I own the iac 982 which is a chinese 870 clone

its awesome

CSACANNONEER
08-13-2010, 3:42 PM
Oooops, so much for doing the least bit of research before posting.

Doheny
08-13-2010, 3:42 PM
I have one. A Norinco 1911.

elSquid
08-13-2010, 3:45 PM
I bought a Chinese M14 and an AK84S about 20 years ago. ;)

-- Michael

Noobert
08-13-2010, 3:45 PM
Oooops, so much for doing the least bit of research before posting.

HAHA!

Rekrab
08-13-2010, 3:48 PM
Actually I've spent the better part of the day trying to track down info on a Chinese broomhandle I want to buy...

So yes, yes I would by a gun made in China.

NaughtyMonkey
08-13-2010, 3:51 PM
I wouldn't mind getting a Chinese SKS. I don't no if that counts.

dr_communist
08-13-2010, 4:23 PM
I have a norinco sks. It's awsome. Never had a problem with it

Johnny.B.Good
08-13-2010, 4:24 PM
Unlikely.

den888
08-13-2010, 5:02 PM
I heard that Pardner pump action shotguns are already made in China. Hence, the prices are so low.

toby
08-13-2010, 5:08 PM
I have a Charles Daly from the Philppines and it's a nice gun so China would be OK unless you are against buying from that country.

ih8ca
08-13-2010, 5:16 PM
I own several Mak90s and a m-14. They are some of the better guns on the market. The Mak90s receiver is thicker and the m14 has a steel receiver. Another norinico gun that is awesome is the ak hunter. It comes with a milled receiver.

NIB
08-13-2010, 5:21 PM
Those Norinco 1911 pistols were pretty well built and highly sought after for customizing.

WWDHD?
08-13-2010, 5:28 PM
Maybe I should narrow this down a bit. Those examples are mostly a bit obscure and not that common or more surplus military stuff like the SKS.
I mean how about a Glock 17 clone that is found in any gunshop. Or how about a S&W L-frame revolver. How bout a Remington 870 made in China? The kind of guns that we talk about here all the time, either cloned or from a well know gunmaker that suddenly shipped off their factory to China.

smle-man
08-13-2010, 5:31 PM
I own several Mak90s and a m-14. They are some of the better guns on the market. The Mak90s receiver is thicker and the m14 has a steel receiver. Another norinico gun that is awesome is the ak hunter. It comes with a milled receiver.

The M1A has a steel receiver also. I think you meant to say the M14/S has a forged steel receiver. I own one also and it is a good rifle.

Rekrab
08-13-2010, 5:47 PM
Maybe I should narrow this down a bit. Those examples are mostly a bit obscure and not that common or more surplus military stuff like the SKS.
I mean how about a Glock 17 clone that is found in any gunshop. Or how about a S&W L-frame revolver. How bout a Remington 870 made in China? The kind of guns that we talk about here all the time, either cloned or from a well know gunmaker that suddenly shipped off their factory to China.

If the quality was the same and the pricing was competitive, yes, of course.

ghost
08-13-2010, 5:48 PM
yeah especially if its an ak.;)

AJAX22
08-13-2010, 5:54 PM
China makes everything you could possibly want...

However as a proscribed country we cannot import any guns or ammo (or gunparts) from them.

They make copies of everything... Some of it is actually better than the domestic product.

NIB
08-13-2010, 5:58 PM
Maybe I should narrow this down a bit. Those examples are mostly a bit obscure and not that common or more surplus military stuff like the SKS.
I mean how about a Glock 17 clone that is found in any gunshop. Or how about a S&W L-frame revolver. How bout a Remington 870 made in China? The kind of guns that we talk about here all the time, either cloned or from a well know gunmaker that suddenly shipped off their factory to China.

They have made in China 870 clones. As far as a Glock 17 clone, it won't happen simply because Glock has an office in China and is well established with the Chinese law enforcement market and the Government.

Also while there is a market for 1911 clones, there is no market for Glock 17, SIG 226, HK P7 clones. Such clones would be looked down upon by the gun buyers and considered inferior.

Some time ago in one of the HK forums one of the members brought up the idea of making spare parts in China for the P7. The idea was pretty much shot out of the sky by everybody.

Besides, could you imagine dying from lead poisoning by just holding a made in China pistol.

cudakidd
08-13-2010, 6:28 PM
OK, responding to what I perceive to be the OT attempted by the poster (I think). The answer is a qualified yes.

For "working" firearms yes, I already have some Chinese stuff.

But for higher quality stuff, I'm a gun snob. I admit it. I collect pre-lock Smiths, Perazzis, etc. So for high end quality stuff, No.

But having said that I have Grade V Browning Shotguns made in Japan. So IF the quality came up to the same high standards as current production firearms I collect, I MIGHT consider it in the future.

wilit
08-13-2010, 6:33 PM
I would buy a Norinco M-77B in a heartbeat if we could get them here. Very neat design based on the Lignose Einhand. Only takes one hand to rack the slide.

http://img2.blogcu.com/images/s/i/l/silahresimleri/type77b__02.jpg

http://www.eioba.pl/files/user1239/M_2077B_20Zamek.jpg

CSACANNONEER
08-13-2010, 6:39 PM
Maybe I should narrow this down a bit. Those examples are mostly a bit obscure and not that common or more surplus military stuff like the SKS.
I mean how about a Glock 17 clone that is found in any gunshop. Or how about a S&W L-frame revolver. How bout a Remington 870 made in China? The kind of guns that we talk about here all the time, either cloned or from a well know gunmaker that suddenly shipped off their factory to China.

The Norico SKS was manufactured for commercial sales. It is not mil surplus! Also, how can you call all the Norico 1911s, 870 clones, etc. "obscure"? Yes, there are already Chinese made 870 clones! A Chinese G17 clone would be hard pressed to compete with the price of S&W's G19 clone that is already on the market. There really isn't a demand for cloned revolvers that Taurus hasn't covered. So, why do you keep asking the same question in a slightly different form even after you've found out that all these "obscure" guns (1911, 870, etc.) are already being cloned or there just isn't a demand for them?

WWDHD?
08-13-2010, 7:00 PM
It would take a lot to sell me a Beretta made in China instead of Italy or USA. Not impossible, but very unlikely. I think most of us equate a lot of the quality and craftsmanship of our firearms to where its made, mostly Germany(Austria), USA and Italy. That not to say some good guns haven't been made in other places like spain for example.
Recently in the news Harley-Davidson is threatening to close the Milwaukee factory if the workers don't cut their pay. I doubt H-D is moving to China any time soon, but would the typical H-D Customer still buy one if they did? The shooting community hasn't really had to face this possibility with a major manufacturer.
Who knows, a donation to the right person in office could change any current restrictions on firearm imports from China or anywhere else.

mrkubota
08-13-2010, 7:23 PM
I'd take a type 54 (DShK) 12.7mm if they'd make it semi-auto and chambered for .50BMG (or DTC) rather than 12.7x108... :)

mastadonn
08-13-2010, 7:25 PM
If I could get some of these at these prices I would !

http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/index.shtm

Already have a Win 93/97 shotgun, a 1911A1, and a TT33/40 trainer with side mount scope.

POLICESTATE
08-13-2010, 7:30 PM
I would buy a Norinco M-77B in a heartbeat if we could get them here. Very neat design based on the Lignose Einhand. Only takes one hand to rack the slide.

http://img2.blogcu.com/images/s/i/l/silahresimleri/type77b__02.jpg

http://www.eioba.pl/files/user1239/M_2077B_20Zamek.jpg

That's cool, and it crushes your index finger when it cycles. NEAT!

I can rack the slide on my 1911 one-handed too, GI Plug FTW! :43:

Pvt. Cowboy
08-13-2010, 8:20 PM
I haven't seen any AKs made better than the old Polytech AKMs from 20+ years ago, and that's including the Russian sporters.

toby
08-13-2010, 8:28 PM
That's cool, and it crushes your index finger when it cycles. NEAT!

I can rack the slide on my 1911 one-handed too, GI Plug FTW! :43:


noo nooo! dat por keep yo fenger on twiger fo rapi fire bang bang bang...likdat.......:) just funnin

69Mach1
08-13-2010, 8:30 PM
I'll take any Polytech or Norinco AK.

nick
08-13-2010, 8:37 PM
If I could get some of these at these prices I would !

http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/index.shtm

Already have a Win 93/97 shotgun, a 1911A1, and a TT33/40 trainer with side mount scope.

http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/images/US-clients.gif

Damn! :(

POLICESTATE
08-13-2010, 8:51 PM
noo nooo! dat por keep yo fenger on twiger fo rapi fire bang bang bang...likdat.......:) just funnin

You know, that might actually be the case! :eek:

ledman
08-13-2010, 9:03 PM
I'm suprised it hasn't happened yet. Either a copy of an existing gun (maybe even a 1911!) or an original design. Or how about if an exisiting company like Glock or S&W moved production to China. Would you buy one?
I ask because almost EVERYTHING has gone this way except for the most part firearms. Is this still yet to come?

Yes. I had a Norinco 12g Shotgun, a copy of the Ithaca Model 37, and a Norinco SKS, both good weapons. Not sure what rock you have been hiding under, but China has been making and exporting weapons for years.
And if Glock moved to China...good for them, I would still buy a Glock or a S&W if I need one.

welchy
08-13-2010, 9:25 PM
I own the iac 982 which is a chinese 870 clone

its awesome

Me too and I agree it is awsome.

welchy
08-13-2010, 9:26 PM
Oooops, so much for doing the least bit of research before posting.

Harsh, but true.

Flogger23m
08-13-2010, 9:34 PM
China makes clone P226, CZ-75, 870s, 1911s, M14s, AR-15s and I am pretty sure they make Beretta M92 clones.

The Canadians among other countries like them.

For Canadians, it is pretty much the only way to get guns as cheap as we do here.

Rob454
08-13-2010, 9:53 PM
isnt there a company polytec that makes chinese m1a's??

Yes but they cannot be imported here anymore. What you are seeing for sale is strictly stuff that has already been here. It's getting harder and harder to find completely factory M14s that haven't been messed with.
Depending on the fit and finish of the gun it would make a difference. The last made in China or wherever I bought was a 38 caliber revolver. I think it was made in the Phillipines and it was a POS. i never picked it up. Turned right around handed it back to the clerk and told him no way. Not only was the fit and finish crappy, the revolver timed out and at one time the cylinder got stuck between rounds and the hammer dropped ( basically the hammer hit the portion between the two bullets)
So depending on the quality and function/reviews that would help in a decision to buy.

asme
08-13-2010, 10:16 PM
If a foreign company moved production to china, I wouldn't buy it.

I might buy a Norinco or something if it was OK quality.

Stanze
08-13-2010, 10:23 PM
The Clinton Chinese Ban has been discussed here: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-64104.html

READ THIS FOR THE FULL STORY: http://www.mega.nu/ampp/china/j28.html

In a nutshell, Clinton played both sides. He told the soccer moms he was banning Chinese guns and ammo from importation AND he gave the Chinese plenty of time and warning to import everything they can before the hammer dropped; anything in route after the ban was active was allowed to dock and sell their cargo. Likely, so he can still have Chinese $upport.

Before the ban, Olympic Arms made a prototype 7.62x39mm AR pistol that triggered a ban on super cheap ($2 a box!) 7.62x39mm steel-core ammo! This upset the gun industry and budget minded shooters, however the complete ban a short time later made that moot.

WWDHD?
08-13-2010, 11:23 PM
I'm not trying to slam anyones personal property. If you own a chinese made gun then you answered the question: You would. Clearly most of the examples listed are not up to the standards of almost any of the commonly available guns seen in most gun shop, at least the ones I've been in.
SKS: These have been made in lots of places, not just China. I'm sure the fans of these guns have preferences as to which version they like over another.
Norinco: As far as handguns go, I've never seen one, don't know anyone who has one and I didn't see any on the CA roster. Outside of a Gun Digest book I don't think a lot of people have either. If you like them, I'm truly happy for you. You like what you like. Thats cool.
Chinese shotguns: Again, never seen one and don't know anyone who has one. Not disputing that they exist, just never had anyone say "hey man, check out this kick ***** Chinese shotgun..."
AK: Like the SKS; made in lots of places besides China. They are now more like ARs in that most people build one from parts anyway.
I call some of these guns obscure because if you added up all the Chinese made guns legaly owned in this country I doubt they would add up to 5%, probably less.
Everyone has their line in the sand, and the quality and price would have to really knock me over to sell me on one. So no, I would not.

Love the feisty debate.

Colt-45
08-14-2010, 12:23 AM
would you buy a gun made in China?

No.:43:

Mssr. Eleganté
08-14-2010, 1:01 AM
Clearly most of the examples listed are not up to the standards of almost any of the commonly available guns seen in most gun shop, at least the ones I've been in.

Norinco: As far as handguns go, I've never seen one, don't know anyone who has one and I didn't see any on the CA roster. Outside of a Gun Digest book I don't think a lot of people have either.

Chinese shotguns: Again, never seen one and don't know anyone who has one. Not disputing that they exist, just never had anyone say "hey man, check out this kick ***** Chinese shotgun..."

So, to sum up your point...you have never heard of or seen a Chinese firearm, but have somehow been able to determine that the are clearly not up to the standards of the firearms found in most gun shops.

Excuse me while I... :rofl2: :rofl: :rofl2: :rofl:

CalNRA
08-14-2010, 1:01 AM
Not a Norinco made one, no.

Spiggy
08-14-2010, 1:12 AM
OP, from under which bridge did you crawl out of?

Chinese manufactured arms is by far the most common export by that nation. In fact, they are the #3 manufacturer of arms and armaments in the entire world. Many nations warring each other will be using Chinese manufactured weapons long before they get their hands on Russian or American manufactured items.

Then you consider the amount of Chinese manufactured AKs or SKSs imported to the US in one go, it will still outnumber any import arm to date. The question is whether or not they've made way into the hands of documentable users.


Considering the tooling and engineering capabilities of China, I would not put down their manufacturing abilities so easily. QC is laxed on commercial goods, it's OK to get a cheap household item. But when it comes to something that chucks steel cased lead downrange, I promise it will be as effective as any other manufacturer

pingpong
08-14-2010, 1:16 AM
If Ivan could make an AK in his toolshed, I'm sure that a modern Chinese factory is more than capable of building the same. I just wish we could get them here...

CSACANNONEER
08-14-2010, 6:15 AM
AK: Like the SKS; made in lots of places besides China. They are now more like ARs in that most people build one from parts anyway.


LMAO! MOST people who own AKs don't have the first clue how to make their own. They are not lego guns like an AR is. You need a little knowledge and proper tooling. But, hey, you already knew that since, you seem to be the leading expert on them as well as the leading expert on firearms imported from China.

If you don't believe me about building AKs, I'll let you know that I've hosted 5 and am currently planning two more AK build parties. These have all take place within the last year and a half. I'm willing to guess that, after the 7th BP is over, there will only be approximately 200-250 AKs built at my BPs. So, if we quadruple that number, it would probably be more AKs than were built in the entire state over 18 months. Now, are you still going to contend that there have been less than 1000 AKs purchased by California consumers over the last 18 months? Somehow, I really doubt that. Hell, I've even purchased 3 commercially made AKs in that time period.

CLEARLY, you really need to do a bit of research before making blanket statements without any facts to support them. BTW, if you really frequent several gun shops, I will also bet that you have handled more than a few Chinese made clones. You just did not know where they were made. Maybe the outstanding quality has you fooled. Oh, guess what, your idea that since SKSs, AKs etc. are being made in many other counrties, they don't really count as "clones" is about as stupid of a statement as I've ever heard. Are you aware that there are 870 clones made in China already? I'm sure, in your mind, these don't really count either since, there are also 870 clones coming in from Turkey, right?

As far as a Chinese Berretta 92 clone goes, there is already a clone made by Taurus. So, any Chinese clone would be competing against another clone already. Wouldn't it make more sense for Chinese manufacturers to produce clones of guns for which other clones do not already exist? Of course, they also have to consider US patent laws and importation laws too. But, you already know all about import and patent laws, right?

Quiet
08-14-2010, 7:40 AM
I want to buy this Chinese firearm. (http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/nfa4sale.cgi?read=129848) It's only $12,000. :Pirate:
http://i34.tinypic.com/14vjrjr.jpg

CSACANNONEER
08-14-2010, 7:42 AM
How bout a Remington 870 made in China?

How about a 2 1/2 year old thread with over 40,000 veiws:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=82794:p

Really, there is a wealth of information out there. Have you heard of "Google"?

ilikeguns
08-14-2010, 7:43 AM
hell no. hell no, and hell no.
Seeing as how they will most likely be our enemies in the next major war, I want as little to do with them as possible. They can keep their norincos

Quiet
08-14-2010, 7:47 AM
hell no. hell no, and hell no.
Seeing as how they will most likely be our enemies in the next major war, I want as little to do with them as possible. They can keep their norincos

The US economic market is the reason why the PRC has money to upgrade their military.
Why would they intentional bite the hand that feeds it?
Keep shopping at Wal-Mart, the PRC military depends on it for upgrades. ;)

Turbinator
08-14-2010, 7:51 AM
build one from parts anyway.
I call some of these guns obscure because if you added up all the Chinese made guns legaly owned in this country I doubt they would add up to 5%, probably less.

Sorry - you can try to dig yourself out of this hole you made, but frankly you're delusional. Chinese guns have been around since the beginning of guns, and lots of us either own, or have seen and handled Chinese made firearms already. They aren't as obscure as you seem to think.

Turby

CSACANNONEER
08-14-2010, 8:08 AM
Come on Turby, he's probably right about the <5% thing. But, I'm betting that the <5% statistic also covers imports from many other countries as well.


Hey, look what I just found:
http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/1724/How-Many-Guns-Are-There-Who-Owns-Them-IMPORTS.html

1992 China sold 164,271 rifles to the United States; in 1993 it sold 490,399. Chinese rifles accounted for nearly two-thirds (64%) of all rifles imported in 1993, then fell to 49% of rifles imported in 1994. That was the year President Bill Clinton imposed a ban on the import of Chinese guns (except shotguns) as a condition of renewing China's "most favored nation" trading status. By 2000, guns from China represented less than 1% of the total imported.



While Chinese firearms may not make up over 5% of all guns in America, they sure have made up the MAJORITY of all IMPORTED firearms in past years.

Rob454
08-14-2010, 8:16 AM
I'm not trying to slam anyones personal property. If you own a chinese made gun then you answered the question: You would. Clearly most of the examples listed are not up to the standards of almost any of the commonly available guns seen in most gun shop, at least the ones I've been in.
SKS: These have been made in lots of places, not just China. I'm sure the fans of these guns have preferences as to which version they like over another.
Norinco: As far as handguns go, I've never seen one, don't know anyone who has one and I didn't see any on the CA roster. Outside of a Gun Digest book I don't think a lot of people have either. If you like them, I'm truly happy for you. You like what you like. Thats cool.
Chinese shotguns: Again, never seen one and don't know anyone who has one. Not disputing that they exist, just never had anyone say "hey man, check out this kick ***** Chinese shotgun..."
AK: Like the SKS; made in lots of places besides China. They are now more like ARs in that most people build one from parts anyway.
I call some of these guns obscure because if you added up all the Chinese made guns legaly owned in this country I doubt they would add up to 5%, probably less.
Everyone has their line in the sand, and the quality and price would have to really knock me over to sell me on one. So no, I would not.



Well I can tell you that ive owned a few chinese guns. Had a SKS and I still have a Polytec M14. neither gun has ever given me any trouble and they were both built well. There are plenty of people who own chinese guns because they aren't as bad as people want them to be.
Most people would have no clue how to build a AK nor do they have the KNOWLEDGE or tooling. Now I can basically take a AR and show a 12 year old how to put one together and I bet I can make him put it together quickly over and over.
Now when you are comparing price and quality are you using a similar priced gun or are you comparing a 350$ SKS to a 1800$ AR? You don't need to buy chinese guns because you are buying everything else made in china. Hell walk in a supermarket our damn FOOD is made in freaking china.
Lets face if someone needs a gun for whatever not everyone can afford to buy a 1000$ AR but lots of people can drop 350 for a SKS.

wilit
08-14-2010, 9:11 AM
That's cool, and it crushes your index finger when it cycles. NEAT!

I can rack the slide on my 1911 one-handed too, GI Plug FTW! :43:

Negative, no finger crushing. The slide cocking mechanism isn't attached to the slide.

http://www.fotydostrony.yoyo.pl/M%2077B%20Zamek%20P.jpg

evidens83
08-14-2010, 9:33 AM
Yes. Yes I would.

Noonanda
08-14-2010, 9:43 AM
I'm not trying to slam anyones personal property. If you own a chinese made gun then you answered the question: You would. Clearly most of the examples listed are not up to the standards of almost any of the commonly available guns seen in most gun shop, at least the ones I've been in.
SKS: These have been made in lots of places, not just China. I'm sure the fans of these guns have preferences as to which version they like over another.
Norinco: As far as handguns go, I've never seen one, don't know anyone who has one and I didn't see any on the CA roster. Outside of a Gun Digest book I don't think a lot of people have either. If you like them, I'm truly happy for you. You like what you like. Thats cool.
Chinese shotguns: Again, never seen one and don't know anyone who has one. Not disputing that they exist, just never had anyone say "hey man, check out this kick ***** Chinese shotgun..."
AK: Like the SKS; made in lots of places besides China. They are now more like ARs in that most people build one from parts anyway.
I call some of these guns obscure because if you added up all the Chinese made guns legaly owned in this country I doubt they would add up to 5%, probably less.
Everyone has their line in the sand, and the quality and price would have to really knock me over to sell me on one. So no, I would not.

Love the feisty debate.

Well I know my Polytech M-14S is better than my Buddies US made Springfield M1A. While I am out shooting my Polytech, he is sending his rifle back to SAI to utilize their warranty for a broken part, While I was scoping mine he found out that his is receiver is "not to M-14/government Spec" and cannot use the exact same scope mount as mine. So explain again how Chinese firearms arms are not up to standard or get out to more gunshops cause your living with blinders on.

WWDHD?
08-14-2010, 10:49 AM
I'll sum things up with this. I will always have a firearm for self defense no matter where it comes from. All of the guns except for one I own now are American made. Part of my buying decision is that I like to think that I'm supporting an industry that employs a lot of people to be productive and not be on welfare. IF all the major players (Ruger , Mossberg, S&W....) were to move their factories and jobs to China, like so many other industries, this wouldn't be the hobby it is for me today. I know they have the capacity to make almost anything, but given their track record with kids toys & furniture, jewelry, pet food, tires... I just can't get enthused about any of the ChiCon guns I've seen here in this thread.
I guess if it wasn't for Bill Clinton and the CA handgun safety test this might have already happened. Strange how things work out sometimes.
Next time I go to a gunshow (Cow Palace next month) I am going to actively look out for any Chinese made guns. maybe I'm missing out on something.

NovaTodd
08-14-2010, 11:12 AM
Norinco Tokarav. However for the most part, I don't own communist weapons... :43:

Noonanda
08-14-2010, 12:15 PM
Norinco Tokarav. However for the most part, I don't own communist weapons... :43:

Comrade, you are in need of a "reeducation", maybe we will send you to this exclusive camp and retreat, it is in a beautiful area of the country we call siberia. :43:

chuckdc
08-14-2010, 12:17 PM
I have one of those Norinco 1911s. It's done more than its share of shooting, as it was my first USPSA match gun, and was only put aside because I picked up a double-stack Para gun to replace it.
Now, it's a recreational gun, and has 3 different top ends for it, the original .45, a Springfield Armory 9mm top (which required a fair bit of fitting) and an original Colt .22 conversion kit, which didnt require any fitting. That makes me think that Norinco might well have been closer to Colt specs than Springfield is.

cudakidd
08-14-2010, 12:21 PM
See for me I already HAVE all the firearms I NEED. It's about the firearms I WANT...so unless the Chinese make a high quality clone of something I don't already have, no need to buy at the moment...

And Chinese products are everywhere and we like it that way. We vote with our wallets. Get a dose of reality, we enabled the Chinese since Nixon to open up their Society through market reforms and trade. They are more avid Capitalists now then we are! Yes their Government is Authoritarian but with 1 Billon People and over 100 hundred different ethnic groups all simmering away, what kind of Government would really work?

Chinese guns sold here support American jobs for distributers, gun shops, sporting goods stores. Try educating yourself on the mark-up for Chinese firearms. Most of the profit is made HERE!

Cyc Wid It
08-14-2010, 12:41 PM
There may be a Polytech M-14 in my future.

Noonanda
08-14-2010, 3:12 PM
There may be a Polytech M-14 in my future.

I love mine, bought it at Ades in Apr of 2007, it would be one of the last guns I get rid of.
Here it is in a replacement stock that I painted
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs129.snc1/5531_1193006712745_1455744538_529528_5172535_n.jpg

Rob454
08-14-2010, 8:22 PM
There may be a Polytech M-14 in my future.

Kind of hard to find. i see one once in a while. mostly I see a lot of SA M1s

CSACANNONEER
08-15-2010, 8:59 AM
Kind of hard to find. i see one once in a while. mostly I see a lot of SA M1s

But, they do come up from time to time:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=332131

-hanko
08-15-2010, 6:05 PM
Originally Posted by WWDHD? View Post
Clearly most of the examples listed are not up to the standards of almost any of the commonly available guns seen in most gun shop, at least the ones I've been in.

Norinco: As far as handguns go, I've never seen one, don't know anyone who has one and I didn't see any on the CA roster. Outside of a Gun Digest book I don't think a lot of people have either.

Chinese shotguns: Again, never seen one and don't know anyone who has one. Not disputing that they exist, just never had anyone say "hey man, check out this kick ***** Chinese shotgun..."

AK: Like the SKS; made in lots of places besides China. They are now more like ARs in that most people build one from parts anyway.


The Norinco 1911 is a fantastic gun that many use as a base to build serious competition guns. They were cheap before the Clinton ban, worth their weight in gold now. Those who build custom 1911's are definitely aware of them.

If you vision of a good gun is that it's on the CA roster...I really don't want to comment. Guns are on the roster because the manufacturers pay CA to put them there...the roster does NOT define good v. bad nor high-quality v. no-quality guns.

Most people do not build AK's from parts, they buy them assembled. AK assembly is not the lego-build AR type of assembly;).

Polytech M14's are generally regarded superior to Springfield Armory's stuff...though if you don't mind a gun made with Brazilian parts and assembled in the US, go for it. If I were looking for a Brazilian rifle, I'd chose an FAL (which I already have, several times).

When I'm looking for a new gun, I try to get the best I can afford. Country of origin is not the first priority.

-hanko

C.W.M.V.
08-15-2010, 6:25 PM
I would commit war crimes to get my hands on an NDM-86. So yes.

-hanko
08-15-2010, 6:28 PM
OK, responding to what I perceive to be the OT attempted by the poster (I think). The answer is a qualified yes.

But having said that I have Grade V Browning Shotguns made in Japan. So IF the quality came up to the same high standards as current production firearms I collect, I MIGHT consider it in the future.
Miroku does do VERY nice work. I have a 20ga SxS purchased in Japan that's just beautiful.:cool:

-hanko

jonni
08-15-2010, 7:47 PM
I'm not trying to slam anyones personal property. If you own a chinese made gun then you answered the question: You would. Clearly most of the examples listed are not up to the standards of almost any of the commonly available guns seen in most gun shop, at least the ones I've been in.


jesus...

are people really that ignorant?

Rob454
08-15-2010, 8:47 PM
But, they do come up from time to time:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=332131

Lol well thats 1/4 of the gun parts you need.:D


jesus...

are people really that ignorant?

yes they are:eek:. Sometimes I'm ignorant too but I usually straighten myself out fast and educate myself.

cudakidd
08-15-2010, 8:50 PM
I think the answer is Yes. To equate the DOJ list with quality standards, to be unaware of the 20 year record of Chinese Imports, and to state that if you haven't personally seen a firearm it can't be common or good quality?

cudakidd
08-15-2010, 8:51 PM
Miroku does do VERY nice work. I have a 20ga SxS purchased in Japan that's just beautiful.:cool:

-hanko

Yup, the quality is high, my grade V is 100% full hand engraved and very nicely done...

mswanson223
08-15-2010, 8:53 PM
yeah no problem

nick
08-15-2010, 8:57 PM
If you don't believe me about building AKs, I'll let you know that I've hosted 5 and am currently planning two more AK build parties. These have all take place within the last year and a half. I'm willing to guess that, after the 7th BP is over, there will only be approximately 200-250 AKs built at my BPs. So, if we quadruple that number, it would probably be more AKs than were built in the entire state over 18 months. Now, are you still going to contend that there have been less than 1000 AKs purchased by California consumers over the last 18 months? Somehow, I really doubt that. Hell, I've even purchased 3 commercially made AKs in that time period.

Did you count the AKs 69Mach1 built in the same period? That ought to at least double your numbers.

nick
08-15-2010, 9:05 PM
Norinco Tokarav. However for the most part, I don't own communist weapons... :43:

They're only communist while they're owned by communists. My Chinese SKS will (and probably have, who knows, they've shot plenty of their own people) shoot communists just the same.

However, I suspect that my L213s are plotting a revolution, hence I put them next to some serious Austrian, American, and Croatian-made firepower, just in case. You can't be too careful with former commies :)

scotthmt
08-15-2010, 9:05 PM
http://www.dragunov.net/ndm86/Norincoresized-med.jpg

nick
08-15-2010, 9:10 PM
I would commit war crimes to get my hands on an NDM-86. So yes.

I'd go with a Dragunov. And yeah, you can hardly get it around here without committing a war crime. Carry on, soldier :p

nick
08-15-2010, 9:11 PM
jesus...

are people really that ignorant?

Yes.

Cali-V
08-15-2010, 9:16 PM
I would never...

But I did buy this 1911, the guy said it was built in Chino, and if anyone has a Norinco model 320 uzi... Well give me a call...


Oh I forgot about that SKS... sorry...

556MikeMike
08-15-2010, 9:29 PM
I'm going to go with a no on buying a Chinese made gun. My past experiences in the work place with Chinese made goods does not ensue confidence. Even if a reputable company with good customer service like Smith & Wesson were to move to manufacturing to China I wouldn't buy it.

SMOKEYMOUNTAIN
08-16-2010, 2:58 PM
I love my 870 clone. Goes bang everytime I pull the trigger and is definitely a looker.

Anti-Chinese sentiment has no place here.

It's all about price point and cost to benefit ratio with these clones. That's the bottom line.

Rob454
08-16-2010, 6:43 PM
If the quality is good I dont care who made it. if its crap I simply wont buy it. I refused to pick up my last handgun cause it was a POS right out of the box

WWDHD?
08-17-2010, 12:55 AM
Hi everybody. Just got back from a quick trip to Canada and I brought back a trunk load of polytecs and Norincos. I don't have room for all this stuff back at the rock that some of you think I live under, so if your interested in one of these diamonds-in-the-rough, let me know and I'll give you a good deal.
But seriously, most of these guns are dreadful out of the box. Some of you have taken these guns and spent a lot of time, $$$, and effort to modify and gunsmith them into reliable and accurate weapons. You are the above average gun enthusiast. Way above average. Nothing wrong with a project gun. Sounds like fun. But you have to admit that the average gun owner wouldn't got this far. For the average person the guns that are commonly available and purchased today are close to perfect out of the box for most people. And if they are not, they are usually fixed under warranty. I suspect that if these guns had not been banned from importation back in the mid-'90s (whatever the original reason for the ban was for back then) and allowed to overwhelm the marketplace like lots of other stuff that used to be made here then every gun would be a project gun today.
As I've learned from some of you hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of these Chinese made firearms were imported into the US before the Clinton ban. Seems like only a handful remain and are floating around among the hardcore fans. Where did the rest of them go? I have my theories but I'm interested in where some of you out there think these guns wound up.
Great discussion, but lets lay off the racist stuff, you don't know my ethnic background and I don't know yours and it doesn't matter anyways. We're talking about guns and lets stay there.

nick
08-17-2010, 1:00 AM
I don't suppose you've read any of the posts here? Just wondering :)

1911_sfca
08-17-2010, 1:06 AM
I'm suprised it hasn't happened yet. Either a copy of an existing gun (maybe even a 1911!) or an original design. Or how about if an exisiting company like Glock or S&W moved production to China. Would you buy one?
I ask because almost EVERYTHING has gone this way except for the most part firearms. Is this still yet to come?

No.

But it looks like I'm in the minority here. No wonder we have a $227 billion yearly trade deficit with China, and they just surpassed Japan to be the #2 economy in the world, and will soon surpass us too.

Enjoy your Norincos, Komrades...

nick
08-17-2010, 1:08 AM
No.

But it looks like I'm in the minority here. No wonder we have a $227 billion yearly trade deficit with China, and they just surpassed Japan to be the #2 economy in the world, and will soon surpass us too.

Enjoy your Norincos, Komrades...

Thank you, I most certainly will come weekend :)

Packy14
08-17-2010, 1:10 AM
No... because I don't trust chinese metal quality, I also don't trust their attention to detail and would not trust my life or my health to a gun made in china... i only trust german or US made guns...ok..maybe austria too.

CSACANNONEER
08-17-2010, 4:26 AM
Hi everybody. Just got back from a quick trip to Canada and I brought back a trunk load of polytecs and Norincos. I don't have room for all this stuff back at the rock that some of you think I live under, so if your interested in one of these diamonds-in-the-rough, let me know and I'll give you a good deal.
But seriously, most of these guns are dreadful out of the box. Some of you have taken these guns and spent a lot of time, $$$, and effort to modify and gunsmith them into reliable and accurate weapons. You are the above average gun enthusiast. Way above average. Nothing wrong with a project gun. Sounds like fun. But you have to admit that the average gun owner wouldn't got this far. For the average person the guns that are commonly available and purchased today are close to perfect out of the box for most people. And if they are not, they are usually fixed under warranty. I suspect that if these guns had not been banned from importation back in the mid-'90s (whatever the original reason for the ban was for back then) and allowed to overwhelm the marketplace like lots of other stuff that used to be made here then every gun would be a project gun today.
As I've learned from some of you hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of these Chinese made firearms were imported into the US before the Clinton ban. Seems like only a handful remain and are floating around among the hardcore fans. Where did the rest of them go? I have my theories but I'm interested in where some of you out there think these guns wound up.
Great discussion, but lets lay off the racist stuff, you don't know my ethnic background and I don't know yours and it doesn't matter anyways. We're talking about guns and lets stay there.

:confused::confused: What are you talking about? Obviously, you don't understand that many of these guns that have been reworked into competition guns were great guns to start with. That's why they were choosen to be customized for competitions. Also, your idea of "the average gun owner" and what he/she is willing to do to modify a gun is not the same as my idea. But, hey, you are obviously the expert. As to why most of the millions of chinese guns are not actively being resold, maybe it's because their owners like them too much to part with them. There are still millions of pre '64 Winchesters in collectors' hands but, most of them are not for sale either.

Rob454
08-17-2010, 4:38 AM
But seriously, most of these guns are dreadful out of the box. Some of you have taken these guns and spent a lot of time, $$$, and effort to modify and gunsmith them into reliable and accurate weapons. You are the above average gun enthusiast. Way above average. Nothing wrong with a project gun. Sounds like fun. But you have to admit that the average gun owner wouldn't got this far. For the average person the guns that are commonly available and purchased today are close to perfect out of the box for most people. And if they are not, they are usually fixed under warranty. I suspect that if these guns had not been banned from importation back in the mid-'90s (whatever the original reason for the ban was for back then) and allowed to overwhelm the marketplace like lots of other stuff that used to be made here then every gun would be a project gun today.
As I've learned from some of you hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of these Chinese made firearms were imported into the US before the Clinton ban. Seems like only a handful remain and are floating around among the hardcore fans. Where did the rest of them go? I have my theories but I'm interested in where some of you out there think these guns wound up.
Great discussion, but lets lay off the racist stuff, you don't know my ethnic background and I don't know yours and it doesn't matter anyways. We're talking about guns and lets stay there.

How do you figure they are dreadful out of the box? My poly14 shoots just as good as my buddys SA M1. My SKS ( chinese got rid of it in the ban) Was a perfectly good shooting gun. Had to get rid of it. it took the AK mags so I gave it to a buddy who was moving to Texas.
Most members on here ARE the average buying public you speak of. Even if the cheap/inferior guns as you say were allowed to be imported the quality HAD to be stepped up otherwise people wont buy it. Sure some will buy any POS that comes along cause they dont know any better and they simply shop by price and not by quality and price.
Im willing to bet lots of these guns that you think disappeared

1. Are still in someones closet or safe ( and since some are illegal in cali they do not say anything about it )
2. They were sold out of state and they are not on the market to sell
3. people turned them in during the gun ban
4. some broke a small part and people never bothered fixing them weather that was the no knowledge or simply its illegal I cant take it to a gunsmith cause Ill get arrested mentality i dont know
5. Some people destroyed them when they found out they have a illegal weapon. like I did. And yes they were destroyed BEFORE Calguns was even a gleam in Kestrylls eyes.

Im willing to bet lots of people simply turned them in to the PD or a gun buyback. If a gun is bad quality it wont sell well unless you drop the price to nothing. At that point what you are gonna get as purchasers are the know nothing crowd who is simply looking to get a cheap gun for home protection. About the only gun maker I can think of thats even remotely in the entry level low buck approach to firearms is Hi-Point firearms.
Sure ill try to buy american and my HD guns are american, but thats only because I dont need more pistols. I got enough. So i dont need to rush down and grab a chinese made 45. Either way most of the chinese guns that are sold here have already been bought a long time ago so youre not really buying from the chinese. youre buying from another american. That money stays here.

Mssr. Eleganté
08-17-2010, 6:25 AM
would you buy a gun made in China? I'm suprised it hasn't happened yet. Either a copy of an existing gun (maybe even a 1911!) or an original design. Or how about if an exisiting company like Glock or S&W moved production to China. Would you buy one?
I ask because almost EVERYTHING has gone this way except for the most part firearms. Is this still yet to come?


Norinco: As far as handguns go, I've never seen one, don't know anyone who has one and I didn't see any on the CA roster. Outside of a Gun Digest book I don't think a lot of people have either.

Chinese shotguns: Again, never seen one and don't know anyone who has one. Not disputing that they exist, just never had anyone say "hey man, check out this kick ***** Chinese shotgun..."


But seriously, most of these guns are dreadful out of the box. Some of you have taken these guns and spent a lot of time, $$$, and effort to modify and gunsmith them into reliable and accurate weapons.

So, three days ago you didn't even know that Chinese guns existed, but now you've already determined that most of them are dreadful, unreliable, and inaccurate? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

nick
08-17-2010, 8:37 AM
Come to think of it, we do have a "hey man, check out this kickass Chinese shotgun" thread, it's that Remington 870 Express vs. Interstate Hawk 982 one :)

bohoki
08-17-2010, 8:41 AM
ive bought a few

i had a sks,model of the 1911

and still have a mak-90 and a 213 9mm tokarev

they all work as good as anything else i've used

jonni
08-17-2010, 9:27 AM
Hi everybody. Just got back from a quick trip to Canada and I brought back a trunk load of polytecs and Norincos. I don't have room for all this stuff back at the rock that some of you think I live under, so if your interested in one of these diamonds-in-the-rough, let me know and I'll give you a good deal.
But seriously, most of these guns are dreadful out of the box. Some of you have taken these guns and spent a lot of time, $$$, and effort to modify and gunsmith them into reliable and accurate weapons. You are the above average gun enthusiast. Way above average. Nothing wrong with a project gun. Sounds like fun. But you have to admit that the average gun owner wouldn't got this far. For the average person the guns that are commonly available and purchased today are close to perfect out of the box for most people. And if they are not, they are usually fixed under warranty. I suspect that if these guns had not been banned from importation back in the mid-'90s (whatever the original reason for the ban was for back then) and allowed to overwhelm the marketplace like lots of other stuff that used to be made here then every gun would be a project gun today.
As I've learned from some of you hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of these Chinese made firearms were imported into the US before the Clinton ban. Seems like only a handful remain and are floating around among the hardcore fans. Where did the rest of them go? I have my theories but I'm interested in where some of you out there think these guns wound up.
Great discussion, but lets lay off the racist stuff, you don't know my ethnic background and I don't know yours and it doesn't matter anyways. We're talking about guns and lets stay there.

>didnt know china made guns
>doesnt own any chinese guns
>comes to the conclusion that they are dreadful, unreliable, and inaccurate
>my face

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1880/watwb.gif

your lack of any logic or reasoning is appalling

CSACANNONEER
08-17-2010, 9:41 AM
Come to think of it, we do have a "hey man, check out this kickass Chinese shotgun" thread, it's that Remington 870 Express vs. Interstate Hawk 982 one :)

See post #51 for the link. Notice how the OP wanted "them" to make an 870 clone but, as soon as I linked to a 2 1/2 year old thread about them he just dropped the subject? Something tells me that he already knows everything about everything and doesn't really want us to weigh in on the subject.

WWDHD?
08-17-2010, 10:08 AM
I did go back and read some of the posts about the Interstate Hawk 982 shotgun and your right, it looks good in the pics and many have had good experiences with it. Cheap price. CSACCANNONEER, I cry your pardon, Gunslinger. I will look out for one of these so I can see it for myself.
I dug out an old issue of Guntest magazine from 2006 where they tested a Norinco Hawk model 98. It got a conditional buy rating. They found it kicked very hard due to its light weight, rough action, and had poor acuracy. Personally, I'd prefer a Mossberg 500 for under $300. and if I was really pinching pennies I'd look at one of the Turkish made Stoeger shotguns. The few I've seen up close look decent and they are backed up by Beretta.
Thats my opinion, and your entitled to it.

robcoe
08-17-2010, 10:17 AM
I'm suprised it hasn't happened yet. Either a copy of an existing gun (maybe even a 1911!) or an original design. Or how about if an exisiting company like Glock or S&W moved production to China. Would you buy one?
I ask because almost EVERYTHING has gone this way except for the most part firearms. Is this still yet to come?

I try to buy guns made in America by American company's(same policy I have for everything actually), even if it costs more. I only violated this twice with my guns, once for a Mosin Nagant rifle and once for a CZ 75

nick
08-17-2010, 10:19 AM
I try to buy guns made in America by American company's(same policy I have for everything actually), even if it costs more. I only violated this twice with my guns, once for a Mosin Nagant rifle and once for a CZ 75

Well, that counts most Springfields out, as well as quite a few other "American" companies.

Spiggy
08-17-2010, 10:45 AM
lots of FUD here

Cali-V
08-17-2010, 12:14 PM
M1911.Org Nork Forum (http://forum.m1911.org/forumdisplay.php?f=22)

Then look through here (http://forums.1911forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=32)

-hanko
08-17-2010, 12:40 PM
No... because I don't trust chinese metal quality, I also don't trust their attention to detail and would not trust my life or my health to a gun made in china... i only trust german or US made guns...ok..maybe austria too.
You may not trust the metal, but analysis of chinese steel used in Polytech m14's indicates it's at least as good as that produced by the Springfield Arsenal on usgi m14's, and is superior to that used by Springfield Armory in their M1A semi-auto version. Google a bit, you might be surprised.

-hanko

rojocorsa
08-17-2010, 12:56 PM
Hell, even I wouldn't mind having a Polytech M-14 receiver. Too bad they aren't affordable,

xrMike
08-17-2010, 2:02 PM
Already have -- a Norinco 982 Hawk shotgun.

Bought it several months ago but have not shot it yet, so I can't say much about it, other than it's waaaaay better than a Remington 870. :p

Noonanda
08-17-2010, 6:49 PM
http://www.performanceboats.com/html/youBoat/data/606/troll.jpg

Packy14
08-17-2010, 9:45 PM
ya..i have a SA scout and i'm not impressed w/ the metal on that either. still won't make me buy a chinese gun..just not my thing.

jawcn
08-18-2010, 2:37 PM
chinese weapon is banned... sth like forever... if im not in Cali, i will buy a poly legend no matter how expensive it is~~~ it is beautiful...

jawcn
08-18-2010, 2:46 PM
No.

But it looks like I'm in the minority here. No wonder we have a $227 billion yearly trade deficit with China, and they just surpassed Japan to be the #2 economy in the world, and will soon surpass us too.

Enjoy your Norincos, Komrades...

japan has 130 million people, china has 1.3 billion people, when they have same amount of GDP, who do you think is the more powerful guy?

surpass us?! china spend about 15 billion on military every year, japan spends 80 billion and we spends 300 billion... how do they surpass us?

ppl~~ plz look at the whole story not only a small part of it…

7.62x54R
08-21-2010, 4:55 PM
I have a Norinco 1911 Commander no problems with it at all i wont part with it. Also have a Military Sino Soviet SKS aswell

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_38lsATjptuU/S68XIqvQrGI/AAAAAAAAAL8/bs2TD5Z-YDc/s1600/Picture+270.jpg

shortround1
08-21-2010, 9:44 PM
I love my 870 clone. Goes bang everytime I pull the trigger and is definitely a looker.

Anti-Chinese sentiment has no place here.

It's all about price point and cost to benefit ratio with these clones. That's the bottom line.

I completely disagree, that blind "bottom line" kind of thinking is why almost everything is made in China now, giving them unprecedented economic growth while our job market and economy dwindle. I'll gladly give my money to Remington if I want an 870, not a company that copies somebody else's work just to undercut them. I don't want my money making other countries stronger while my own suffers.

Cyc Wid It
08-21-2010, 10:12 PM
Alas, poor conservative Calgunners... what to do when you suffer a crisis between your 2 favorite dead horses: patriotism and capitalism. Now read my signature and talk about the guns.

glockwise2000
08-21-2010, 10:33 PM
I would buy a Norinco M-77B in a heartbeat if we could get them here. Very neat design based on the Lignose Einhand. Only takes one hand to rack the slide.

http://img2.blogcu.com/images/s/i/l/silahresimleri/type77b__02.jpg

http://www.eioba.pl/files/user1239/M_2077B_20Zamek.jpg

Nice. A one hand psitol.

Mssr. Eleganté
08-22-2010, 12:26 AM
...I'll gladly give my money to Remington if I want an 870, not a company that copies somebody else's work just to undercut them...

What about a Remington Model 798 rifle? Would you buy one of those?

audihenry
08-22-2010, 1:37 AM
Yes, I'd love a Chinese SKS, AK, SVD, and others!

Beelzy
08-22-2010, 5:53 AM
Nope........I try my best to make sure the stuff I own is American Made.

Do you know how hard it is finding American made shoes these days??

Rob454
08-22-2010, 6:21 AM
I completely disagree, that blind "bottom line" kind of thinking is why almost everything is made in China now, giving them unprecedented economic growth while our job market and economy dwindle. I'll gladly give my money to Remington if I want an 870, not a company that copies somebody else's work just to undercut them. I don't want my money making other countries stronger while my own suffers.

Almost everything IS made in china. In a capitalistic society ( which we are) the "bottom line" as you say it is the end all be all. If there was no money to be made we wouldn't be doing it. As for the copy/undercutting i dont think the 870 is protected under patent laws anymore so you can go out and start manufacturing the same thing as long as you dont call it a Remington 870s nobody can do anything about it. Remington can either redesign it better or simply lower the cost to compete. Granted if someone wants a 870 they will buy a 870. others will go for the cheaper alternative.
In a capitalistic society like we are you are allowed to undercut your competition and put them out of business.
Everyone is looking at their "bottom line" and buying things as they can afford. Personally I dont blame anyone for looking in their wallet and saying I can only afford this and Ill buy this instead of that.





Nope........I try my best to make sure the stuff I own is American Made.

Do you know how hard it is finding American made shoes these days??

cudakidd
08-22-2010, 6:46 AM
Again the profit margin on the Chinese imports is HUGE! You are supporting Distributors, Wholesalers, retailers here and ALL their American employees!

The cost on the original run of Norinco 1897s was $3 at the Factory! I know since the evaluative and warranty repair gunsmith for Norinco here was a friend of mine.

windrunner
08-22-2010, 6:46 AM
If you are implying that the Chinese can't shoot, you're a fool. BTW, have you ever owned a Winchester? Do you know what country it was made in. You might be surprised to find that many Winchesters have not been made in the US for decades.

I've never owned a Winchester and I'm not a fool either. You are more than welcome to buy as many Chinese-made firearms as your dear little heart desires.

cudakidd
08-22-2010, 6:49 AM
Yup we already outsource and brand imports in firearms, for example Russia and Turkey are the big producers in the shotgun world. Remington use them as does EVERY other US company! And the upscale production shotguns are ALL Italian.

The XD by Springfield is Croatian for a handgun example. If you really research you will find this is not a new trend. MY 25 year old Grade V Citori is Japenese, my 30 plus year old Perazzi is branded by Ithaca/Winchester!

CSACANNONEER
08-22-2010, 6:59 AM
I've never owned a Winchester and I'm not a fool either. You are more than welcome to buy as many Chinese-made firearms as your dear little heart desires.

If you gon't think that you are a fool, please explain your comment about "not buying a gun from people who can't shoot" that is posted in a chinese gun thread. Are you reaaly dumb enough that you think that Chinese people can not shoot? You might want to review some of the Olympic medal winners over the last 25 years. BTW, I'm not asian nor do I even own any Chinese made guns except a SKS. I just can't believe the close minded and biggotted responses from some small minded people here.

So, what makes of firearms do you recommend?

Rob454
08-22-2010, 7:02 AM
I won't buy a car made by people who can't drive and I won't buy a gun made by people who can't shoot.

Way to paint with a pretty broad brush hell I think with that statement you just upgraded to a push broom. I don't see why people are so worried about what others buy with their money. You don't want a chinese gun don't buy one. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy. You want american made then spend the money and get one. There are very few guns made here anymore. Im talking regular guns not custom stuff

windrunner
08-22-2010, 7:14 AM
I stated in my original post what I wouldn't do. I don't recall telling others what they should do. I'm not interested in recommending to anyone what to buy. Go spend your money where and how you'd like. You earned it. Knock yourself out.

If you can't handle my opinion, go get a hug from momma or something.

And furthermore, I'm not in the least bit interested in what the Olympic shooters have been doing for the past 25 years.

CSACANNONEER
08-22-2010, 7:26 AM
So, you would rather falsely believe that Chinese can not shoot than see proof that they can? I rest my case, you are a fool and a biggot. Since it is not possible to teach a fool anything, I won't waste my time with you.

Zonie
08-22-2010, 7:41 AM
I'm suprised it hasn't happened yet. Either a copy of an existing gun (maybe even a 1911!) or an original design. Or how about if an exisiting company like Glock or S&W moved production to China. Would you buy one?

Well, I wouldn't not buy one, at least not just because it was Chinese.

Polytech and Norinco M-14 receivers and 1911 frames are widely considered to be some of the best available because they're forged and not cast. They're actually preferred by most 'smiths who build custom 1911s and M-14s.

Many years ago, I had an opportunity to buy a chi-com M-14 for just 600 bucks, but took a pass, figuring that any M-14 made in China and costing only 600 bucks must be junk. I didn't know back then that the chi-com M-14 receivers were the best on the market and that the receiver on that rifle alone was worth 600 bucks, at least. I still kick myself for not buying that rifle. I could've sent it in to SEI and had a kickass M-14 built that would make me the envy of every gun nut in town.

These days, I would definitely not dismiss anything out of hand just because it was made in China.

Kestryll
08-22-2010, 11:11 AM
If you can't handle my opinion, go get a hug from momma or something.

Nice attitude.

So you're done being a member here then, is that what you're telling me?

xxsleepyxx
08-22-2010, 1:51 PM
Subliminal racism.

tombinghamthegreat
08-22-2010, 3:00 PM
If i found a great firearm that is cheap, reliable and one i need at the time i would not care about its country of origin. Hopefully that will answer your question.

JagerTroop
08-22-2010, 5:56 PM
Would I buy a Chinese made gun?

Why not? Every other thing in this country is made in F*cking China, so... I might as well be consistent.

Rob454
08-22-2010, 7:49 PM
If you can't handle my opinion, go get a hug from momma or something.

.

Your "opinion" that I responded to was more of a bigoted statement than a opinion. You seem to be pretty adamant about buying american and trying to persuade others to buy american also. Spend your money however you wish, but dont come on here with no facts to back your statements and then get mad when people are calling you on your statements. LOL go get a hug from momma. how old are you?

Juice5610
08-23-2010, 8:31 AM
Polytech ak47 is conbsidered by many to be the epitome of an ak47... hell yes I would buy a chinese made gun

windrunner
08-23-2010, 9:14 AM
Your "opinion" that I responded to was more of a bigoted statement than a opinion. You seem to be pretty adamant about buying american and trying to persuade others to buy american also. Spend your money however you wish, but dont come on here with no facts to back your statements and then get mad when people are calling you on your statements. LOL go get a hug from momma. how old are you?

I don't recall persuading anyone to buy anything. I merely stated what I would/wouldn't do. How many times do I have to say that? You get it right? Do I need flashcards to spell it out for you?

If you go back and review your comments, it appears that you (and some others) are the ones getting worked up and angered by a very short comment that I made in response to the OP's question. What is the point in asking people what they think if the answers and opinions of others are going to get you all riled up?

And lastly, I'm old enough and mature enough to handle someone's opinion without losing my mind and resorting to childish name calling like idiot, fool, bigot, etc. I find it hilarious (and pathetic) that my attitude is being called into question. That speaks volumes about some things.

I stated my opinion and that is it. You want facts, go find them yourself and swirl your mind around them. I'm not your research monkey.

luciferkang
09-12-2010, 2:17 AM
And lastly, I'm old enough and mature enough to handle someone's opinion without losing my mind and resorting to childish name calling like idiot, fool, bigot, etc. I find it hilarious (and pathetic) that my attitude is being called into question. That speaks volumes about some things.

ahem.


I won't buy a car made by people who can't drive and I won't buy a gun made by people who can't shoot.

ArkinDomino
09-12-2010, 12:44 PM
I buy german cars and japanese and korean electronics... I get a lot of clothes from China. I'll keep my guns American.

daskraut
09-12-2010, 5:01 PM
I have a chinese tokarev, and a norinco AK74 in .223

Rob454
09-12-2010, 5:24 PM
I don't recall persuading anyone to buy anything. I merely stated what I would/wouldn't do. How many times do I have to say that? You get it right? Do I need flashcards to spell it out for you?

If you go back and review your comments, it appears that you (and some others) are the ones getting worked up and angered by a very short comment that I made in response to the OP's question. What is the point in asking people what they think if the answers and opinions of others are going to get you all riled up?

And lastly, I'm old enough and mature enough to handle someone's opinion without losing my mind and resorting to childish name calling like idiot, fool, bigot, etc. I find it hilarious (and pathetic) that my attitude is being called into question. That speaks volumes about some things.

I stated my opinion and that is it. You want facts, go find them yourself and swirl your mind around them. I'm not your research monkey.

What I find hilarious and pathetic is that you made a bunch of bigoted statements but you cant seem to see that. But I guess since they are your "opinion" its ok. LOl Im done wasting my time with you

CSACANNONEER
09-12-2010, 5:44 PM
What I find hilarious and pathetic is that you made a bunch of bigoted statements but you cant seem to see that. But I guess since they are your "opinion" its ok. LOl Im done wasting my time with you

I find it pretty comical that he allueded to the Chinese not being able to shoot. As soon as he was proven wrong by pointing out that the Chinese have done pretty well in Olympic shooting events, he stated that he didn't care about that. Obviously, his "opinions" are not based on facts. So, they must be based on pure prejudice.