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View Full Version : Can a non CA resident do a PPT


ih8ca
08-13-2010, 9:26 AM
I have an office in Ca and store a few guns down here. I am a resident of WA. One of my firends went shooting with me for the first time and had a blast. I think I created a monster. He is asking me if he can buy one of my pistols. I am wondering if it is legal for a non Ca resident to do a PPT?

halifax
08-13-2010, 9:37 AM
I don't think there is a law against it, BUT the DROS software won't accept out-of-state IDs.

If it is on the roster, hand deliver the firearm to the dealer and process it as a dealer sale.

rromeo
08-13-2010, 9:37 AM
I believe it would have to go through as an FFL transfer. In order for a $35 PPT, both parties must be CA residents. Any pistol you sell him must be on the CA safe handgun roster.

CSACANNONEER
08-13-2010, 9:43 AM
Federal law would require you to go through a FFL in your home state. There are limited exceptions to this but, not for California residents on either side of a sale.

Exposed
08-13-2010, 11:23 AM
Yup, no CA I'd presented by both parties during ppt = no ppt.

dieselpower
08-13-2010, 12:05 PM
IICR...by BATFE ruling, firearms transfers must take place in the buyers State of residency.

littlejake
08-13-2010, 1:27 PM
I infer from the OP that the buyer is a CA resident. The seller is not as he has a WA ID.

I know for sure the DROS software will not accept an out of state ID on either side of a PPT.

I'm just not sure it is against the law.

Seems it could be done as an FFL transfer if one can find a dealer who will accept a HG over-the-counter from an out of state resident. The roster would apply; and fees are not regulated... could cost as much as $150 in fees.

kmca
08-13-2010, 1:48 PM
I don't really see the difference between sending your gun to a California FFL through the mail or handing it to them in person.

Droc101
08-13-2010, 2:12 PM
I don't really see the difference between sending your gun to a California FFL through the mail or handing it to them in person.
When sending a firearm through the mail doesn't firearm have to be shipped ffl to ffl? aka, owner/seller has to take their firearm to an ffl on their side, then ffl1 sends it to ffl2 in CA. If thats the case then it might be easier to hand it off in person.

CSACANNONEER
08-13-2010, 2:30 PM
When sending a firearm through the mail doesn't firearm have to be shipped ffl to ffl? aka, owner/seller has to take their firearm to an ffl on their side, then ffl1 sends it to ffl2 in CA. If thats the case then it might be easier to hand it off in person.

Nope. Some FFLs have their own policies but, it is not illegal for a non-FFL to send a firearm to a FFL through USPS (if it's a long gun), UPS, Fed Ex, etc.

Librarian
08-13-2010, 2:43 PM
IICR...by BATFE ruling, firearms transfers must take place in the buyers State of residency.
Handguns, yes; long guns, not by Federal law, but California law requires Californians to use DROS/CA-licensed FFLs, and Federal law does require satisfying the state laws of the states of residence of both buyer and seller.

I infer from the OP that the buyer is a CA resident. The seller is not as he has a WA ID.

I know for sure the DROS software will not accept an out of state ID on either side of a PPT.

I'm just not sure it is against the law. [snip]

Seems it could be done as an FFL transfer if one can find a dealer who will accept a HG over-the-counter from an out of state resident. The roster would apply; and fees are not regulated... could cost as much as $150 in fees.

It isn't against the law - the PC doesn't make that restriction. But evidently DOJ made that a requirement of the DROS software when it was developed.

But the interstate sale could go as you describe.

I don't really see the difference between sending your gun to a California FFL through the mail or handing it to them in person.

There really isn't one (except as makes a CA FFL comfortable doing business).

Droc101
08-13-2010, 2:44 PM
ok, so how the heck does CFLC do anything other than waste everyones time if an individual can readily mail a firearm to a Ca ffl?

Librarian
08-13-2010, 2:54 PM
ok, so how the heck does CFLC do anything other than waste everyones time if an individual can readily mail a firearm to a Ca ffl?

An excellent question. If you ever get an answer other than 'most of the legislature hates guns and despises gun owners', please post.

ih8ca
08-13-2010, 5:24 PM
Another question, I am looking at permantly moving down here in a little over a year and buying a house. I have a great job lined up. I have been very aggresive in buying firearms over the last 10 years. I want to sell a chunk of them off to use as a down payment. How long do I have to be a California resident before I can sell them off. What would be the best way to do it. I consigned my friends store 70 guns already. I am thinking of selling another 30 rifles and 20 handguns to get me into my house. I am just trying to come up with the best way to achieve my goals and make the most money without the hassle.

Librarian
08-13-2010, 7:17 PM
Another question, I am looking at permantly moving down here in a little over a year and buying a house. I have a great job lined up. I have been very aggresive in buying firearms over the last 10 years. I want to sell a chunk of them off to use as a down payment. How long do I have to be a California resident before I can sell them off. What would be the best way to do it. I consigned my friends store 70 guns already. I am thinking of selling another 30 rifles and 20 handguns to get me into my house. I am just trying to come up with the best way to achieve my goals and make the most money without the hassle.

Long enough to have CA ID - 30 days? Maybe shorter. You need CA ID to satisfy the DROS software.

For selling, that's it. For buying, which you did not mention, you would need proof of residency for handguns, which may take a couple weeks longer to document.

ih8ca
08-13-2010, 9:48 PM
I want to get my gun collection done before I become a resident. I don't want to mess around with a roster or any of the other bs this state has. So I probally won't be buying much if anything in CA. I just want to sell my surplus stuff off.

Droc101
08-13-2010, 9:57 PM
roster? We dont have a roster in CA that I know of. If you do buy handguns out of state then you have to register them in the state when you bring them over, which means they have to be CA legal. I have had some issues trying to buy out of state as well with the shops wanting me to be a resident of the state the shop resides in, not sure if that is a legal thing or a shop policy thing.

glockwise2000
08-13-2010, 10:08 PM
I want to get my gun collection done before I become a resident. I don't want to mess around with a roster or any of the other bs this state has. So I probally won't be buying much if anything in CA. I just want to sell my surplus stuff off.

Then I suggest don't give up your residency in WA. I know there are others here that are dual resident between other state and CA.

Please delete if FUD.

Librarian
08-14-2010, 12:00 AM
roster? We dont have a roster in CA that I know of. If you do buy handguns out of state then you have to register them in the state when you bring them over, which means they have to be CA legal. I have had some issues trying to buy out of state as well with the shops wanting me to be a resident of the state the shop resides in, not sure if that is a legal thing or a shop policy thing.

Let's see....

The Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale is explained here (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/The_Safe_Handgun_List).

A Personal Handgun Importer - someone moving into CA (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Moving_to_California_with_firearms) - must indeed register handguns brought here, but those guns are exempt from the Roster. Can't be 'assault weapons', though.

Unless you have a C&R and are buying C&R handguns, or you have a FFL, you cannot legally 'buy handguns out of state'. It's Federal law (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transferring_firearms_Interstate) that handguns may only be transferred at an FFL in the state of residence of the buyer (with a very few exceptions).

pitchbaby
08-14-2010, 12:38 AM
Unless you have a C&R and are buying C&R handguns, or you have a FFL, you cannot legally 'buy handguns out of state'. It's Federal law (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transferring_firearms_Interstate) that handguns may only be transferred at an FFL in the state of residence of the buyer (with a very few exceptions).

This pesky rule kept me from buying a brand new SIG P229 in Oregon at a gun show I was working in. It was 10 yrs old in original packaging. The dealer found it under a shelf in his stock room and just wanted to get rid of it for 250 bucks!

Sorry about off topic, but this thread is making me ache for that gun again!

Droc101
08-14-2010, 8:21 PM
Let's see....

The Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale is explained here (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/The_Safe_Handgun_List).


Ah got it. I have always known it as the safe handgun list. thats interesting on the List exempt if you are considered an importer. I wonder if it is indeed a loophole in the CA approved list law if you can get dual residency in a pro-constitution state. The DOJ gave us a lot of FUD when we talked to them on this subject. It really is sad that the field agents doing the auditing in our shop don't even know the laws. Makes you wonder how many false write ups have occurred in the past