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View Full Version : UOC'ers- What can I expect?


Falstaff
08-12-2010, 1:46 PM
While UOC'ing, what can I expect to happen with the inevitable LE encounter?

How long will I be detained?
Will they try to confiscate my pistol?
Will I be assaulted after/during being "proned out"??
Is it still legal in CA to have a thrid party videotape the encounter from a distance?

I'd love to hear from people who've actually done it; naysayers and Calguns' safety monitors, not so much...

wash
08-12-2010, 1:59 PM
From what I saw of the UOC'er that was carrying at Cisco, you'll get an e-check several times and there will be 2-3 squad cars present.

No "proning out", no assault, no confiscation unless you violate the GFSZ or some other law. If you do, all bets are off.

It's like letting a puppy try to cross a minefield.

Glock22Fan
08-12-2010, 2:44 PM
Ignoring the wisdom of doing this or not (as you clearly intend), I suspect that what you can expect varies considerably depending upon where you do it and your luck of the draw with the responding officers.

gobler
08-12-2010, 2:54 PM
:eek: Oh my god!! It'll be a blood bath! Your empty pistol will magically fly out of your holster and randomly gun down bystanders.... Think of the children!!!






















Well that's what they will try to make you feel. Don't give in to the dark side. :) Just stay relaxed and if asked by a Police Man, agree to the e check but you should have them reach for your gun. You DO NOT want to hand it to them. :oops: Be polite and if you have fliers on the legalities and facts you could hand them out to folks who ask.

advocatusdiaboli
08-12-2010, 2:56 PM
From what I saw of the UOC'er that was carrying at Cisco, you'll get an e-check several times and there will be 2-3 squad cars present.

I am surprised that Cisco doesn't have a policy against employees having firearms on their private property. I was under the impression most large and mid-size firms in the SF Bay Area do. Particularly since there have been a few notable "postal" episodes and prohibiting firearms keeps those with intent to shoot the place up from doing it jsut as pistol bans eliminate gun crime. :rolleyes:

wash
08-12-2010, 2:58 PM
It wasn't an employee, it was a weird protest.

OleCuss
08-12-2010, 3:01 PM
Why not go talk to the Chief of Police or one of his management types and ask him/her that question? This way you can let them know of your law-abiding status, be readily identified by them, and maybe avoid all harassment entirely?

I think it would also be interesting to ask them to define all the local GFSZ's on a map for you so that you can avoid them. After all, you are trying to work with them to avoid breaking the law or cause grief and hassles for them - so they should be happy to cooperate with you.

OleCuss
08-12-2010, 3:05 PM
I am surprised that Cisco doesn't have a policy against employees having firearms on their private property. I was under the impression most large and mid-size firms in the SF Bay Area do. Particularly since there have been a few notable "postal" episodes and prohibiting firearms keeps those with intent to shoot the place up from doing it just as pistol bans eliminate gun crime. :rolleyes:

I do get the sarcasm and I'm pretty much in agreement with you.

I'm curious, however. If I owned a business (and I don't) and allowed a bunch of employees to carry weaponry, would my liability be increased if one of them uses one of the allowed weapons to shoot the place up? Not providing a secure work environment and all that?

And yes, I'd feel more secure if 1/2 of all the employees were trained and armed. But I'd bet the legal liability is lower if I ban firearms than if I allow them.

FWIW from a non-lawyer and non-owner.

thevic
08-12-2010, 3:27 PM
unknowingly passing through a gfsz is not illegal, but it will be damn hard trying to defend that. especially if your walking around as you most certainly already know the area.

now driving UOC you may be able to pull off more easily if you are driving long distances as you are jist "passin through" and dint know its a gfsz

dantodd
08-12-2010, 3:43 PM
I'm curious, however. If I owned a business (and I don't) and allowed a bunch of employees to carry weaponry, would my liability be increased if one of them uses one of the allowed weapons to shoot the place up? Not providing a secure work environment and all that?


If you were a business owner and had such a policy LCAV would send a lawyer to your offices and threaten you by saying they would represent anyone who was the victim of or witness to any such event and sue you into the poor house.

OleCuss
08-12-2010, 3:50 PM
If you were a business owner and had such a policy LCAV would send a lawyer to your offices and threaten you by saying they would represent anyone who was the victim of or witness to any such event and sue you into the poor house.

That does sound like a very likely scenario.

We have a sick society when organizations such as Brady Campaign and LCAV can be devoted to violating our civil rights and still be accorded any sort of respect. . .

dantodd
08-12-2010, 3:57 PM
That does sound like a very likely scenario.

We have a sick society when organizations such as Brady Campaign and LCAV can be devoted to violating our civil rights and still be accorded any sort of respect. . .

Actually they do this. I remember Gene or Bill posting about it.They are rabid and will go after gun owners in any manner possible. They are no different than the KKK going in to threaten white shop owners who served blacks in the south. Threatening financial ruin is the corporate equivalent to threatening physical violence.

BKinzey
08-12-2010, 3:58 PM
Here's a place you should check out

http://californiaopencarry.org

PsychGuy274
08-12-2010, 4:05 PM
While UOC'ing, what can I expect to happen with the inevitable LE encounter?

How long will I be detained?
Will they try to confiscate my pistol?
Will I be assaulted after/during being "proned out"??
Is it still legal in CA to have a thrid party videotape the encounter from a distance?

I'd love to hear from people who've actually done it; naysayers and Calguns' safety monitors, not so much...

1) Variable, depends mostly on officer and your attitude

2) Possible if they don't know the laws. Politely inform that you do not consent to search of your person/property

3) Don't assume you're going to be proned out and insinuate you will be assaulted. Just like us gun owners don't like to be generalized, neither do law enforcement officers.

4) As long as it's in a public place there can be no expectation of privacy so two-party consent doesn't not apply. Video away.

I don't know you or your intentions, but please, for the love of god, don't be rude to the officers if you get contacted. I have been open carrying for over a year and due to being polite and smiling I have never been searched/detained/cuffed/belittled/'e' checked/proned. Never.

And also make sure you go to www.opencarry.org and memorize as much info as humanly possible. It could help you out in politely informing officers if they screw up a law.

Be safe and have fun!

Oh yeah, and carry pamphlets to hand out to interested people!

halo6941
08-12-2010, 4:48 PM
Ignoring the wisdom of doing this or not (as you clearly intend), I suspect that what you can expect varies considerably depending upon where you do it and your luck of the draw with the responding officers.

ill agree with this, right now alot of police departments are informing there officers about UOCing. actualy being stopped and e-checked now is a bt different then it was a year ago. in some places officers dont even bother to confront UOCers anymore.

CitaDeL
08-12-2010, 5:30 PM
While UOC'ing, what can I expect to happen with the inevitable LE encounter?

How long will I be detained?
Will they try to confiscate my pistol?
Will I be assaulted after/during being "proned out"??
Is it still legal in CA to have a thrid party videotape the encounter from a distance?

I'd love to hear from people who've actually done it; naysayers and Calguns' safety monitors, not so much...

I have open carried and had my second law enforcement encounter on Monday.

How long will I be detained?

This varies on how knowledgeable the department is. The educated departments take only as long as is necessary to verify loaded condition,... on the other hand, some have been detained for a couple of hours. I was detained for 10 minutes the first time, and 40 the second.

Will they try to confiscate my pistol?

Maybe. Again, it depends on where they are with training.

Will I be assaulted after/during being "proned out"??

This is a red herring. Most OC'rs are not proned out for a 12031 (e) check. I havent heard of anyone being assaulted.

Is it still legal in CA to have a thrid party videotape the encounter from a distance?

It is legal to video tape and audio record the police in the performance of their duties- There is no expectation of privacy while they are conducting the states business. It is recommended that you carry a active digital recorder while OCing.

dantodd
08-12-2010, 5:31 PM
I'd love to hear from people who've actually done it; naysayers and Calguns' safety monitors, not so much...

1) Variable, depends mostly on officer and your attitude


I'll give you three guesses on that one.

Falstaff
08-12-2010, 7:29 PM
Here's a place you should check out

http://californiaopencarry.org

thanks

KylaGWolf
08-12-2010, 9:50 PM
While UOC'ing, what can I expect to happen with the inevitable LE encounter?

How long will I be detained?

This can vary as Citidel said. On my only occasion of being detained it was about 20-30 minutes and situation was tense to say the least.

Will they try to confiscate my pistol?

They might or they may run the serial number which they aren't supposed to do either. They may also take your ID and run it.

Will I be assaulted after/during being "proned out"??

Again this depends on the department. In the situation I was in the situation went from talking to starting to get tense real fast.

Is it still legal in CA to have a thrid party videotape the encounter from a distance?

Yes but I will say that some officers are not going to like this and they WILL try to force the person to stop recording and unless you have a really good camera and mike if they are too far away the recording won't do jack for you.



Now for some things you need to consider before you even ATTEMPT to UOC.

1. Do you know where every single public, private and charter K-12 school is in the area you plan on carrying in. And don't rely on a map because charter schools do not always show up on them. This means physically go to the area you plan to carry and check it out. Oh and charter schools have even showed up in malls. I know of three that are in malls here in San Diego as an example. Also keep in mind that private and charter schools may not have a whole lot of signage to advertise they are a school.

2. Do you have a decent digital recorder in your possession. Do you have a third party that is willing to go with you and not abandon you if anything should go south. Are they willing to keep recording even if told to shut it off. Can you rely on this person to call for legal help for you should you get arrested.

3. Can you come up with the money for bail if for some reason that you find yourself in custody and charged. Do you even know of a good gun law attorney should something go wrong. Do you have that number on speed dial on your phone.

4. Do you understand the laws to pertaining to UOC and know that you can CALMLY speak with LEO's if you are approached or are you going to fly off the handle and start yelling they have no right to stop you.

If you answered no to any of the four things I listed then please do not UOC. This is coming from someone that while out with those UOCing had my fourth amendment rights violated. Yes I have UOCed in the past. And might someday do so again but with the political climate that is in my area right now I don't feel like poking the bear with a stick. And I am also not the typical UOCer for the most part. I am pro UOC but I am also a cautious one.

pullnshoot25
08-12-2010, 11:18 PM
Read all the stories on Californiaopencarry.org

Read every memo.

Read the FAQ in my sig line.

If the OC training videos aren't passe, watch those too.

PsychGuy274
08-12-2010, 11:38 PM
Now for some things you need to consider before you even ATTEMPT to UOC.

I'm sorry and this isn't directed toward you, it's just a general commentary and a realization I just came to. I always knew it, but it just hit me.

It really tees me off that we have to "attempt" to exercise a civil liberty. That's exactly what we're doing here. We're attempting. This should be something that you just do! Not attempt. Period. End of story.

Venting over.

Vox
08-13-2010, 12:55 AM
I got proned out, was detained for about 25 minutes, and had my pockets run through... this was june... I keep meaning to post the story here.

Cali-Shooter
08-13-2010, 1:12 AM
Now for some things you need to consider before you even ATTEMPT to UOC.



Very sound advice. That should be a preparation manual on how-to UOC.


It really tees me off that we have to "attempt" to exercise a civil liberty. That's exactly what we're doing here. We're attempting. This should be something that you just do! Not attempt. Period. End of story.


Yes, it aggravates me to no end as well, but it just comes to show how godd##n backasswards this facking state is. UOC should be practiced, but with the necessary safeguards like KylaGWolf suggested. You don't want your gun confiscated do you? Or cops to arrest you unlawfully and get away with it without video and audio evidence of it?

N6ATF
08-13-2010, 11:09 PM
You can expect a guy to come over, introduce himself and claim you killed his father. Then you should prepare to die.