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mow
05-01-2006, 11:27 AM
I was at Big 5 yesterday and was told that unless I also had a COE that I could not walk out with a C&R rifle the same day.

Is this true? I was under the impression that you could walk out with the rifle the same day without a COE.

The guy said he just had lunch with someone from thr ATF and DOJ and this very topic came up. I asked for the penal code, he didn't know it "off hand"

stevie
05-01-2006, 12:38 PM
In Calif. you need a COE to walk out the same day with a C&R firearm. All depends on the store, Turners in Reseda will not accept a C&R and COE, still must wait for the 10 days.

Jeff Rambo
05-01-2006, 1:01 PM
Funny, I was at Big5 yesterday and inquired about a C&R rifle they had and in passing, I mentioned to the employee that was helping me that I need to hurry up and get my C&R and COE so that I could cash & carry. He looked puzzled and said "No, you would have to wait 10 days." I clued him in a little more and he went over to his manager to inquire about what I had just told him.

The manager came over and pulled out a print-out of what I can only describe as a "how to sell firearms walk-through manual." It pointed out that those with a C&R and COE are exempt from the 10 day wait and seeing that on the paper was good enough for him to confirm what I had just said about the ability to cash & carry. The initial employee had an even more puzzled look at that point.

ocabj
05-01-2006, 1:06 PM
Forget buying local if you have a C&R. Just order straight from AIM, SOG, J&G, or another mail-order C&R dealer. Why pay DROS?

stevie
05-01-2006, 2:30 PM
Sometimes the local store may having something interesting. Picked up a Hakim on consignemt at Turners for 175.00 in very good condition, waiting for the 10 days

ocabj
05-01-2006, 2:35 PM
Sometimes the local store may having something interesting. Picked up a Hakim on consignemt at Turners for 175.00 in very good condition, waiting for the 10 days

This was a consignment gun? The seller should have just took his rifle back from Turners and just sold you the gun face to face. Both of you would have saved money (him on the consignment fees and you on the PPT).

stevie
05-01-2006, 2:43 PM
it was already listed as a consignment, had no idea who the seller is/was.

ocabj
05-01-2006, 2:43 PM
it was already listed as a consignment, had no idea who the seller is/was.

Ah, yeah that's true.

Fate
05-01-2006, 8:37 PM
Forget buying local if you have a C&R. Just order straight from AIM, SOG, J&G, or another mail-order C&R dealer. Why pay DROS?
With a COE, you don't pay DROS.

killermarmot
05-01-2006, 9:54 PM
I beleive you don't pay DROS on any firearm with a COE not just C&R, could be mistaken though,, I looked into it and after the price of finger printing and all that crap I just order through the mail.

Poohgyrr
05-01-2006, 10:18 PM
It wasn't that long ago that I bought a Garand (C&R) and it was cash n carry.

.....

EOD Guy
05-02-2006, 6:48 AM
This was a consignment gun? The seller should have just took his rifle back from Turners and just sold you the gun face to face. Both of you would have saved money (him on the consignment fees and you on the PPT).

Retrieval of a pawned or consignment firearm by the owner requires a background check just like a purchase, so a DROS and 10 day waiting period would be required. That's a requirement in Federal law.

With a COE, you don't pay DROS.


Yes, you do. A COE has nothing to do with the DROS.

striker3
05-02-2006, 8:02 AM
Retrieval of a pawned or consignment firearm by the owner requires a background check just like a purchase, so a DROS and 10 day waiting period would be required. That's a requirement in Federal law.

Where in the federal law does it say anything about a 10 day waiting period? May say that it requires a background check, I cannot comment about that, but all that would require is a instant NICS check. There is no requirement federally for a 10 day wait.

socal57chevy
05-02-2006, 12:27 PM
VII. EXEMPTION TO WAITING PERIOD FOR 03 / COLLECTOR FFLs WITH A COE

Penal Code sections 12071, 12072 and 12084 apply waiting periods to certain firearm transactions.
California Penal Code section 12078 (t) (1), however, expressly exempts the waiting period for transfers of "curios or relics" to "licensed collectors" with COEs. Specifically:
The waiting period described in Sections 12071, 12072, and 12084 shall not apply to the sale, delivery, loan, or transfer of a firearm that is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 178.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, by a dealer or through a law enforcement agency to a person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto who has a current certificate of eligibility issued to him or her by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 12071.
Thus, if you have both a "collectors license" and a Certificate of Eligibility, the waiting period does not apply so long as the firearm is a "curio or relic." If the firearm is not a "curio or relic" then the Penal Code section 12078(t)(1) exemption does not apply, and the firearm is subject to the ten day waiting period stated in Penal Code sections 12071, 12072 and 12084.4
Penal Code section 12072(t)(1) does apply, exempting the waiting period for "licensed collectors" with COEs, but also requires that:
On the date that the delivery, sale, or transfer is made, the dealer delivering the firearm or the law enforcement agency processing the transaction pursuant to Section 12084, shall forward by prepaid mail to the Department of Justice a report of the transaction pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 12077 or Section 12084. If the electronic or telephonic transfer of applicant information is used, on the date that the application to purchase is completed, the dealer delivering the firearm shall transmit to the Department of Justice an electronic or telephonic report of the transaction as is indicated in subdivision (b) or (c) of Section 12077. "Licensed collectors" not in the business of selling firearms are not required to become a "California dealer" since they are not selling, leasing or transferring firearms as is prohibited without a "California dealers" license by Penal Code section 12070(a). Instead, such collectors are acquiring curio or relic firearms for their collection. Thus, a "licensed collector" that is not selling, transferring, or leasing "curios or relics" may receive "curios or relics" from other FFLs if such transfers are exempt from Penal Code section 12072(d).
Thus, a rifle or shotgun (i.e. firearm that is not a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed) that is a "curio or relic" at least 50 years old may, on an infrequent basis, be transferred from a federally licensed dealer to a "licensed collector," and between private parties without going through a "California dealer."

EOD Guy
05-04-2006, 6:52 AM
Where in the federal law does it say anything about a 10 day waiting period? May say that it requires a background check, I cannot comment about that, but all that would require is a instant NICS check. There is no requirement federally for a 10 day wait.

Federal law doesn't, but California law does. California dealers do not have access to the NICS because California is a point of contact state and the background checks are done through the DROS system. This requires a 10 day wait.

Here is a FAQ from the ATF web site covering the Federal requirement.

(F15) Must a dealer record firearms received on consignment?

Yes. Firearms received for sale on consignment must be entered in the dealer's "bound book." Sales of the firearms are handled in the same manner as other firearm sales. Return of the remaining firearms by the licensee to the consignor is entered in the dealer's disposition record, and the consignor must complete an ATF Form 4473 if the consignor is a nonlicensee. It should also be noted that the sale of such firearms or their return to the consignor must also comply with the Brady Law.

timmy8151
05-04-2006, 9:54 AM
Quick question. I have both a C&R FFL and a COE. I just ordered a CZ52 from J&G Sales and had it sent to my FFL to do a transfer. Now do I have to wait 10 days or can I cash and carry?

EOD Guy
05-04-2006, 10:29 AM
Quick question. I have both a C&R FFL and a COE. I just ordered a CZ52 from J&G Sales and had it sent to my FFL to do a transfer. Now do I have to wait 10 days or can I cash and carry?
You are exempt from the 10 day wait per Penal Code Section 12078(t)(1). You still have to do the DROS, but a 4473 should not be necessary although I'll bet the dealer will want one.