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greasem0nkey86
08-11-2010, 1:23 AM
This seems to be the most reasonable section for this thread, if not, please move it mods. Thx

So I have some mixed experiences at City Arms. I got my HSC there a couple of years ago no problem. I purchased a FNP via gunbroker and called City to send their FFL to the FFL out of state, no problem there, got that taken care of without any hickups.

The pistol is due to arrive on the 9th. My friend and I show up at 11:30am on the 7th to see if I could start the DROS paperwork (IE name, address, etc, the non-important parts of the paperwork), We stroll around the store waiting for someone to free up to help us out. I'm in uniform for work and my friend is in civies, we're standing in front of the display case and are greeted like this by the older russian guy (never got his name, nor do I care for it anymore), I recall it like this "What do you kids want/need?". And my friend recalls it like this "Hey kids, what do you want/need?" First off, you guys just opened shop no more than an hour and you're already in a pissy mood? Second of all, directing us as "kids" is an insult. Yes we may LOOK young, but thats no reason to call us kids, a simple, guy or fella, would've sufficed without comming off as a jackass. And THIRD, his tone/attitude came off as "great, gotta deal with some customers". So I try to ignore his greeting thinking he may just be having a bad day. So I let him know I have a pistol en route and would want to TRY and start paperwork. He takes off his glasses, sets it no the case and says something along the lines of "Why do I want to break the law?". We try to explain, but he keeps repeating the same line. My friend eventually gets through saying just the name, address, and basic parts of the paperwork, he replies that it doesn't take more than 5 minutes. Now I'm skeptical, I haven't DROS'd in a while, and I DO NOT recall it taking only 5 minutes. He then steps away from us and helps another customer. I didn't even have the chance to explain that I would be traveling from SSF to Pacifica DURING MY LUNCH HOUR to do the paperwork. This little "discussion" lasted no more than 2 minutes MAX. Ok fine, we just got stood up my the jackass of the store, I have to get to work soon, so we left.

Today is Tuesday. The pistol should've already arrived and was ready for the DROS. I take my lunch break, call up City, same old guy picks up the phone, I ask if a FNP came in via USPS. He replies with his heavy accent that they don't open packages until after 6pm. REALLY!? I WANT TO SEE MY FIRST PISTOL AND THIS IS WHAT YOU TELL ME!? Great fine, one day, not a big deal, but he doesn't even provide an explanation for it. I call back after 6pm to check if my pistol arrived, I was greeted by the younger gentleman there and confirmed my pistol has arrived. I ask him if its true that they open packages after 6pm, he confirms his, I ask for the reasoning behind it, its because they have A LOT to take work to do. Ok, at least he provided a reasonable explanation without giving an attitude about it.

So another trip to City tomorrow to do the DROS, and another trip back to have the hostage released. After that, I'm most likely going to be taking my business elsewhere.

Has anyone else had a similar experiences with this older guy?

ScOuTeDbYmE
08-11-2010, 1:45 AM
Now that greasemonkey made this post, I am going to identify myself as said friend. I have only stepped into City Arms twice in my life. Both were negative experiences. The first conversation did not last more than 10 minutes and the second, not even 5!

The first time would date back to...possibly 2006. I was looking to purchase my first firearm, a Remington 700. I show up with another Marine buddy of mine who already made three purchases, a Remington, 700, a Kimber 1911, and a Remington 870. (He was very content with his service from them but understood that the Russians that worked the counter were quite brash.) I approach the counter and was asked what I was looking for. All I can remember was telling them I SPECIFICALLY wanted a Remington 700 with a scope. Being that it was my first time buying a firearm with no experience, I didn't know ****! They asked me what model I was looking for and how much I wanted to spend. After showing me ONE 700, they tried to sell me their Saiga rifles for the remaining time I was at the store. The whole time I kept asking for an estimate for a 700 with a scope and they kept telling me the Saiga was a better choice for cheaper. I'm a Marine. I want my goddamn 700. That was the end of that day and City Arms until this past Saturday.

Now I recently purchased a Springfield XD-40 V-10 which was shipped to the newly opened Golden Gate Guns down by San Bruno. Unfortunately, Tabors doesn't do shipping FFLs so i chose GGG but I digress. I told greasemonkey to try City Arms as another resource to have his FNP sent to because GGG has limited hours and is a tad farther away from our residence. Now skipping ahead to the dialogue between the old Russian croak (because he called me a kid) and me, I mentioned to HIM that I recently had a gun transferred and the gun store it was shipped to had already "started" my paperwork. Now when I stay started, I meant by having the basics down (name, address, phone number). By NO MEANS, did they start the DROS process WITHOUT the handgun present. This was understood by both parties. I did arrive on the date my handgun was delivered to make sure the registration process was good-to-go, and it was. By the time the croak had lectured us for 20 seconds on losing his license and refusing to hear NOT EVEN TWO SENTENCES from my lips, he had already passed us over for another waiting customer. I spent 20 minutes outside the store waiting for greasemonkey, another 10 meandering inside the store window shopping and admiring guns, and get less than one minute of shtty service.


FK this place. I'm never ever setting foot nor even mentioning this place to anyone else. This gun store is dead to me.

nagorb
08-11-2010, 3:39 AM
This seems to be the most reasonable section for this thread, if not, please move it mods. Thx

So I have some mixed experiences at City Arms. I got my HSC there a couple of years ago no problem. I purchased a FNP via gunbroker and called City to send their FFL to the FFL out of state, no problem there, got that taken care of without any hickups.

The pistol is due to arrive on the 9th. My friend and I show up at 11:30am on the 7th to see if I could start the DROS paperwork (IE name, address, etc, the non-important parts of the paperwork), We stroll around the store waiting for someone to free up to help us out. I'm in uniform for work and my friend is in civies, we're standing in front of the display case and are greeted like this by the older russian guy (never got his name, nor do I care for it anymore), I recall it like this "What do you kids want/need?". And my friend recalls it like this "Hey kids, what do you want/need?" First off, you guys just opened shop no more than an hour and you're already in a pissy mood? Second of all, directing us as "kids" is an insult. Yes we may LOOK young, but thats no reason to call us kids, a simple, guy or fella, would've sufficed without comming off as a jackass. And THIRD, his tone/attitude came off as "great, gotta deal with some customers". So I try to ignore his greeting thinking he may just be having a bad day. So I let him know I have a pistol en route and would want to TRY and start paperwork. He takes off his glasses, sets it no the case and says something along the lines of "Why do I want to break the law?". We try to explain, but he keeps repeating the same line. My friend eventually gets through saying just the name, address, and basic parts of the paperwork, he replies that it doesn't take more than 5 minutes. Now I'm skeptical, I haven't DROS'd in a while, and I DO NOT recall it taking only 5 minutes. He then steps away from us and helps another customer. I didn't even have the chance to explain that I would be traveling from SSF to Pacifica DURING MY LUNCH HOUR to do the paperwork. This little "discussion" lasted no more than 2 minutes MAX. Ok fine, we just got stood up my the jackass of the store, I have to get to work soon, so we left.

Today is Tuesday. The pistol should've already arrived and was ready for the DROS. I take my lunch break, call up City, same old guy picks up the phone, I ask if a FNP came in via USPS. He replies with his heavy accent that they don't open packages until after 6pm. REALLY!? I WANT TO SEE MY FIRST PISTOL AND THIS IS WHAT YOU TELL ME!? Great fine, one day, not a big deal, but he doesn't even provide an explanation for it. I call back after 6pm to check if my pistol arrived, I was greeted by the younger gentleman there and confirmed my pistol has arrived. I ask him if its true that they open packages after 6pm, he confirms his, I ask for the reasoning behind it, its because they have A LOT to take work to do. Ok, at least he provided a reasonable explanation without giving an attitude about it.

So another trip to City tomorrow to do the DROS, and another trip back to have the hostage released. After that, I'm most likely going to be taking my business elsewhere.

Has anyone else had a similar experiences with this older guy?

Never had a bad experience with city arms, never been called kid, usually young man, always give me good deals. I believe the guy you talked to was the owner. Your really gonna be upset he called you kid? sounds like you might have a chip on your shoulder.

DROS only takes about 30 mins, not sure but I believe you can't start it until the gun is present.

nagorb
08-11-2010, 3:42 AM
Now that greasemonkey made this post, I am going to identify myself as said friend. I have only stepped into City Arms twice in my life. Both were negative experiences. The first conversation did not last more than 10 minutes and the second, not even 5!

The first time would date back to...possibly 2006. I was looking to purchase my first firearm, a Remington 700. I show up with another Marine buddy of mine who already made three purchases, a Remington, 700, a Kimber 1911, and a Remington 870. (He was very content with his service from them but understood that the Russians that worked the counter were quite brash.) I approach the counter and was asked what I was looking for. All I can remember was telling them I SPECIFICALLY wanted a Remington 700 with a scope. Being that it was my first time buying a firearm with no experience, I didn't know ****! They asked me what model I was looking for and how much I wanted to spend. After showing me ONE 700, they tried to sell me their Saiga rifles for the remaining time I was at the store. The whole time I kept asking for an estimate for a 700 with a scope and they kept telling me the Saiga was a better choice for cheaper. I'm a Marine. I want my goddamn 700. That was the end of that day and City Arms until this past Saturday.

Now I recently purchased a Springfield XD-40 V-10 which was shipped to the newly opened Golden Gate Guns down by San Bruno. Unfortunately, Tabors doesn't do shipping FFLs so i chose GGG but I digress. I told greasemonkey to try City Arms as another resource to have his FNP sent to because GGG has limited hours and is a tad farther away from our residence. Now skipping ahead to the dialogue between the old Russian croak (because he called me a kid) and me, I mentioned to HIM that I recently had a gun transferred and the gun store it was shipped to had already "started" my paperwork. Now when I stay started, I meant by having the basics down (name, address, phone number). By NO MEANS, did they start the DROS process WITHOUT the handgun present. This was understood by both parties. I did arrive on the date my handgun was delivered to make sure the registration process was good-to-go, and it was. By the time the croak had lectured us for 20 seconds on losing his license and refusing to hear NOT EVEN TWO SENTENCES from my lips, he had already passed us over for another waiting customer. I spent 20 minutes outside the store waiting for greasemonkey, another 10 meandering inside the store window shopping and admiring guns, and get less than one minute of shtty service.


FK this place. I'm never ever setting foot nor even mentioning this place to anyone else. This gun store is dead to me.

How much time does it take to fill out name, address etc? maybe 5 mins:confused:

tenpercentfirearms
08-11-2010, 5:57 AM
You can't start the DROS until the handgun is present.

On a busy day, I wouldn't open packages until all of my customers were out of the shop either. A guy who buys a gun on Gun Broker instead of through me isn't going to get priority on the phone over a customer sitting right in front of me. But that is the main reason I don't answer the phone when I am with a customer at all. I usually am not that busy so I will take a peak over and say, "Yeah there is a package over there with your name on it." However, I currently have a shop in a closet sized store so doing that is pretty easy.

I never treat kids like kids in my shop. You could come in and be 12 and I will still hand you rifles and handguns to check out. Everyone is a potential long term customer no matter how old they are and especially if you start treating them with respect early. I have never called anyone kid and thanks to this thread, I never will.

My question is how much is their transfer fee? It kind of sounds like they could care less about your transfer business, which many shops could care less about transfer business. However, non-stocking FFLs like Roger's Relics in Santa Clara are first class in the transfer business because that is all they do.

JOEKILLA
08-11-2010, 7:34 AM
Never had a bad experience with city arms, never been called kid, usually young man, always give me good deals. I believe the guy you talked to was the owner. Your really gonna be upset he called you kid? sounds like you might have a chip on your shoulder.

DROS only takes about 30 mins, not sure but I believe you can't start it until the gun is present.

The OP was referring to "Uncle V". Never had a problem with him. One hell of a guy if you ask me.

He calls me "young man" as well.

This reminds me, I gotta stop by to say hi to them.

Capt_Communist
08-11-2010, 7:43 AM
not trying to be disrespectful in any way, but I believe the way he speaks is more of a culture thing than them being offensive.

I bought a 220 from them a few years back and had a ok experience.... nothing bad, but nothing too good.

All in all if I'm in Pacifica with some free time I would patronize their shop again and maybe buy something uber cool if they had it, but that's is.

cmichini
08-11-2010, 9:22 AM
You can't start the DROS until the handgun is present.



I thought they just needed the serial number for a handgun to START DROS. I've had someone do that for me.

Just wondering if this is, dictated by fact, law or policy.

Oceanbob
08-11-2010, 9:32 AM
Here's my take:

1.You buy a gun off Gun Broker instead of ordering it thru City Arms.

2. You cheated them out of any commision.

3. You show up like a hot-shot on the 7th, expecting them to waste a bunch of time and break the law....then act like a little kid when they decide to actually help a customer who is standing in their store.

4. Then you act like an angry kid again by trying to actually HURT their business by complaining on this website.


Feel better?

thevic
08-11-2010, 9:48 AM
you just gotta know how to speak to the russians.

if i ever did an order id take it to golden gate guns in san bruno. yeah the store barely has an inventory, but they are disgustingly nice and dont screw you on fees.

kemasa
08-11-2010, 9:51 AM
I think that you need to look at this a bit more objectively. You want them to start some of the paperwork, then put it aside for when you come in again because you want to save a few minutes later. You will be taking more of their time overall and it is more of a hassle and can cause mistakes to be made. You could start to fill out part of the 4473, but you can not sign it and then there could be a question as to whether you were the one who started to fill it out.

To be SPECIFIC, the DROS is done ONLINE, so you can not start part of that. You need to have the firearm. Some FFLs will start it with the serial number, but I think that the DOJ sent out a letter saying not to do that. In the past, some FFLs would submit a bogus serial number and then correct it, this is no longer allowed.

It is not reasonable to expect them to instantly open the package containing the firearm for you, bypassing what they normally do, which can cause them to make a mistake in logging it. You also seem to think that you have a right to demand all the reasons why they do what they do. They should give you the reasons, but when a person comes in wanting to fill out the paperwork before they can start it will no doubt cause them to question whether they want to do business with you at all. You were wasting their time.

I think that you are being overly sensitive on the "kid" part.

While the concept of the customer always being right is interesting, it is not actually the case.

halifax
08-11-2010, 10:07 AM
I think that you need to look at this a bit more objectively. You want them to start some of the paperwork, then put it aside for when you come in again because you want to save a few minutes later. You will be taking more of their time overall and it is more of a hassle and can cause mistakes to be made. You could start to fill out part of the 4473, but you can not sign it and then there could be a question as to whether you were the one who started to fill it out.
...

I think City Arms use computers for the 4473 (EZ-4473). That would make it impractical to start it one day and then come back to it.

CSACANNONEER
08-11-2010, 10:17 AM
Hey kids, if you don't like a store's policies, open your own. I didn't see anything that indicated that the store was picking on you, doing anything illegal or even abnormal. Yea, you're excited to get your very first handgun but, so what? The bussiness is not going to stop everything, close their doors and go through every box a couple hours early just to make you happy. If you are younger than the grumpy old man, he has the right to call you a kid and you have the right not to like it. In fact, if you are older than him, he still has the right to call you a kid and you still have the right not to like it. It sure sounds to me like you are spoiled "kids" who are complaining about someone not catering to your wishes.

BTW, I have never been to the shop in question and have zero connection to it other than I used to fish off the Pacifica peir.

Ishoot
08-11-2010, 11:13 AM
I've been to City Arms many times and have had a fair experience through out. Nothing to write home about but not ready to boycott the store either. I've also been called "kid" by the owner but have never had my pride or feelings hurt because of it even though I'm in my mid-thirties. I've transferred a few firearms through them and have had to wait just like everyone else for them to open the day's packages "the day after they arrived" and do the DROS then...even though my time is SUPER important and very limited. Even through all those "horrible experiences" :) I didn't go around trying to hurt an honest business just because they didn't cater specifically to me like my mom used to...;) Hey my only advice at this point, is to not sweat the small stuff and good luck in the service with that sense of self-entitlement.

nagorb
08-11-2010, 11:34 AM
The OP was referring to "Uncle V". Never had a problem with him. One hell of a guy if you ask me.

He calls me "young man" as well.

This reminds me, I gotta stop by to say hi to them.

I think they kinda grow on you, they're really the only shop I'll go to now. They almost always have the best prices on handguns and if they know you they will usually give you a deal. My last purchase from them OTD was as cheap or cheaper than any other shop on the peninsula.

dirtyJ
08-11-2010, 1:06 PM
I'm pretty sure there's no law that says you can't start a handgun DROS without the gun being present. It just says you have to have certain information, (serial, barrel length, color etc), but no where does it say you have to have physical possession of the gun. Doesn't matter if DOJ sent out a memo (underground perhaps?) saying you can't, if it's not expressly forbidden by the law, it's legal.

kemasa
08-11-2010, 2:56 PM
The law requires that you accurately submit the information. If you did not see the serial number, then you do not know if it is accurate or not, so you could have a problem.

It is also a bad idea because if something happens to the firearm, then the money is wasted.

berto
08-11-2010, 3:06 PM
I like Uncle V. I like City Arms. A phonecall about going in to fill out the paperwork would have saved you a trip and asking about the delivery situation would have saved you further grief.

Rob454
08-11-2010, 4:38 PM
i get called kid by older people. I dont take it any way but either they are simply being friendly or they are condescending. People with accents i give them a lot more leeway cause due to the accent they tend to sound different. I had a very bad accent when I came to the US.
i think you took it a little too literally.
Good luck with your DROS.

bsg
08-11-2010, 5:00 PM
i sometimes address my employees as kids... including some older than me. for example i may speak with them in a group setting and announce "alright, this is what we're doing today kids." i may say "kids, i don't advise you do this at home... but it works for me."

i will be more sensitive regarding the reference to "kids" in the future after reading your post. i will say calling adults "kids" is oftentimes a way of expressing warm feelings for those adults... and certainly not ill intentioned.

wamphyri13
08-11-2010, 5:32 PM
I didn't read all the replies, but I'll offer my opinions/experiences.
1)Vlad and Dmitri both have accents and come from a different culture. Vlad is a little more direct in his dealings with people, but I have never found him rude. I have only bought one pistol from them, but have done many internet transfers, and have always found them to be great guys. He calls me by name. Vlad is an older gentleman, and you both sound young. Being called, "kid" is not an insult. At least he didn't call you punks. :)
2)City Arms does their DROS on the computer now. So you can't start the, "paperwork" unless you do it all. I did my last revo there in about 10 mins.
3)City Arms has been burned with stolen guns transferred in a couple of times. So they want to be extra careful. I can no longer buy used guns shipped to them unless it's from another FFL. I don't blame them. I accept their policy.
4)I've been dealing with them for about 4 years now. Since November 08, their business is booming. Try showing up at opening on a Tuesday. Enjoy the wait. That's when everyone is picking up from their 10 day wait. I've yet to go in there at any time since November and find it quiet. They are busy. They don't verify shipments until closing.
5)Their fees are $45 and $25. Total $70 Fair to me.

Overall, I like them and the shop. Good people making an honest living. If you don't like them, fine. Go elsewhere. How old are you guys anyway? If you're in your 20's, compared to Vlad, you are kids. Hell, compared to Vlad, I"M a kid.
Ryan

Sheepdog1968
08-11-2010, 5:49 PM
They've treated me fine and I have no complaints. I ordered something out of state but on CA list when after several months they couldn't find one in stock. I didn't expect them to have it ready the day they recieved it as they are busy during customer hours. As a general rule, I wouldn't expect them to fill out the paperwork ahead of time. There have been times at City Arms where the DROS forms have literally taken 5 minutes to fill out so I don't think he was trying to lie. Many times it's under 10 minutes.

ScOuTeDbYmE
08-11-2010, 6:50 PM
Never had a bad experience with city arms, never been called kid, usually young man, always give me good deals. I believe the guy you talked to was the owner. Your really gonna be upset he called you kid? sounds like you might have a chip on your shoulder.

DROS only takes about 30 mins, not sure but I believe you can't start it until the gun is present.
being called a kid in a nice tone is find, i'm used to it being that this owner is decades older with experience. fine. but the tone he used was as if i was personally wasting his time just being present at his store.

and the reason we prefer to take care of the paperwork early is so that the store can get the ball rolling the minute they get the firearm. no need to wait for the buyer to finally show up and start the paperwork. but apparently no one sees eye-to-eye with me on that here except the folks at golden gate guns.
1.You buy a gun off Gun Broker instead of ordering it thru City Arms.

in my case, no one could find or order the V-10. i had to get a transfer somehow. how would it play out in this situation?
but they are disgustingly nice and dont screw you on fees.
+1
I think that you are being overly sensitive on the "kid" part.
i think you all are missing the point on being called a "kid." it is not the WORD he used, it was the TONE.
I'm pretty sure there's no law that says you can't start a handgun DROS without the gun being present. It just says you have to have certain information, (serial, barrel length, color etc), but no where does it say you have to have physical possession of the gun. Doesn't matter if DOJ sent out a memo (underground perhaps?) saying you can't, if it's not expressly forbidden by the law, it's legal.
for the record, there was no mention of physically starting the DROS registration process with the DOJ...just writing down the initial information so the gun store doesnt need it when they have the opportunity to register the weapon when they have time.


holy crap that was a lot of responses. to sum it all up, every one is having the idea that we're two teenagers (which we are not) that got butthurt by a blunt old man. this is NOT the case. the main issue was that the quality service was not there as given to others as observed. you can call me an ******* in a light manner and ill roll with it....but if youre going to call me a kid as if i was 12 and wasting time in a gun store, thats the impression i felt that you all are missing.

i really hope he gives better service than he gave us. hey, if i could, i would do like CSACANNONNER says and open up my own and "theoretically" have the best of CA, GGG, and Tabors, but i wont. ill just take my business elsewhere, plain and simple.

rkt88edmo
08-11-2010, 7:19 PM
I've only been there twice and I think its a great shop. Probably won't shop there much since it is way outta my way, but I'm glad to have been.

Colt-45
08-11-2010, 7:54 PM
Do you guys dress in "gangsta" clothing? Sometimes shops don't like those type of customers in their store, even when their legit and not criminals.

Here's my take:

1.You buy a gun off Gun Broker instead of ordering it thru City Arms.

2. You cheated them out of any commision.

If they feel cheated because you ordered a gun for a cheaper price and had it shipped to them why do they receive it in the first place? They are not obligated to receive firearms from out of state.

shooting4life
08-11-2010, 8:50 PM
I always wondered if I brought a bottle of vodka when buying a gun if they would give me a good discount. Will have to try it next time.

ScOuTeDbYmE
08-11-2010, 9:25 PM
Do you guys dress in "gangsta" clothing? Sometimes shops don't like those type of customers in their store, even when their legit and not criminals.
haha thats pretty random but greasemonkey is in his kragen uniform and im in a typical t-shirt, jeans, and tennis shoes. nothing baggy at all...unless the russians dont like asians. but that would be a different topic and blunt accusation right there which i dont want to start.

@shooting4life: nice one haha. everything always turns out better with a few drinks in the system, eh?

Acorn556
08-11-2010, 9:40 PM
1. I KNEW Mike would be on this

2. I had the same "type" of experience with the "what do you need?" and being called young. I'm use to it. I look like I'm 16 even if I try and grow facial hair.

3. he's old. Old people usually don't bull**** around he knows you want something so just be out with it.

4. good prices.

5. dude....he's Russian.....what do you expect?

I'm pretty sure if you're in there more often you'll see it wasn't anything against you it's just how the old guy is.

cyclenut
08-11-2010, 10:09 PM
I was there once about a month ago with a buddy of mine. It was very busy there, but the employees there were very considerate and helpful and answered all my questions.

Honestly, I doubt he meant any harm by calling you "kids" but I wasn't there so I could be wrong.

If I lived in the area, I wouldn't mind shopping there at all.

MrEd
08-11-2010, 11:02 PM
Uncle V most likely used the word kid as a term of indearment , I am almost certain that he did not mean no disrespect . I have shoped at city arms since they first opened and never had a bad experience .
You can not start the DROS untill the gun has been entered in their books , some ffl got hassled big time for doing that .
Yes I ran into the issue " they do not open packages untill after the close of business " , but Uncle V and crew are really good guys and easy to talk to . if they are not too busy they will do all they can to make you happy .
On the claim that they might not like asians , I have several asian friends that would disagree with you .

My ONLY problem with city arms is that everytime I go there they show me some cool toy that I then MUST buy and it wreaks havoc on my savings account

PsychGuy274
08-11-2010, 11:30 PM
I have studied Russian culture for many years and have many friends from Russia. They are extremely direct and blunt. They don't mean anything by it. That's just how their culture works.

Russia : bluntness :: the US : political correctness.

It might have sounded rude or condescending and if someone from our culture said it in that tone they would have meant it to be rude. Not them.

Take this as a lesson in world culture and move on.

axhoaxho
08-11-2010, 11:32 PM
My wife and I have bought numerous guns from City Arms, and all the guys at there always treated us nicely.

Uncle is old-school, and to him all of us are kids. If I were lucky, at my age I could be a grandpa already; yet when Uncle looks at me I am sure that I am still just a kid to him. So, please don't be offended by being referred to as kid.

And running a gun store business in the Bay Area is very tough, many Government departments will love to nick-pick any wrong-doings to shut it down. So, please be understandable that the gun store has strict policies and guidelines.

With that say, I really cherish the very last few gun stores in the Bay Area, so I always do my part to support the local gun store by buying directly from them. They will understand and appreciate us back as well.

With best regards,

IsaacGlass
08-11-2010, 11:51 PM
I've been shopping at City Arms for the past 4 yrs plus. Uncle V and Dimitri are great people to deal with. In fact, they are one of the better stocked(inventory) shop on the Peninsula.
That is, unless you wanna drive down to RCGE in Sacramento? Anyways, OP's dont take it personal, if someone called me a kid at my age that's a huge compliment. Like others have said,
they do grow on you.

In the wisdom words of Uncle V. Now, who wants to spend money :D

safewaysecurity
08-11-2010, 11:54 PM
Yeh dude I'm pretty sure the rudeness you perceived was just a misunderstanding of culture. Hang out with some Russians for a few years and you will understand.

IsaacGlass
08-12-2010, 12:05 AM
OP's next time if you're looking for a FFL to do transfers, check out Anthony @ UG Imports in Fremont. Great service and a real nice guy. http://www.ugimports.com/shop/

greasem0nkey86
08-12-2010, 2:34 AM
Ok, so, I'm not sure how this happened, I was pretty confident that I was clear on this, but apparently not. Oh I returned to do the DROS, and I may have jumped the gun on some....things, bear with me. Now......where do I begin......?

- First of all, I am NOT posting this to slander/interfere with their business (where you buy your firearms is none of my business, nor do I care), I'm just posting an experience based on how I was treated and reacted accordingly, and was wondering if we were the only ones that were treated this way. Am I not entitled to have my own opinions? (don't need to answer that)

- I may have used "kids" as an insult the wrong way, I was trying to direct the use of "kids" as an unprofessional term considering you are running a business. I work retail, and I NEVER refer ANYONE as a "kid", its always "sir" and/or "madame". OR I don't address them as anything, just a plain ole' "Have you been helped?" And I'll give a generalized quote from some business book(s): A customer is worth (insert huge amount of money here). unquote.

- I not afraid to admit I am a BIT spoiled, but I DO pay my own insurance, gas, cell phone, etc bills. BUT in no way was I asking them to drop their standard procedure and cater to my needs. I was ignorant in THEIR procedures, I assumed, like a normal place of business, (using my work for example), once the packages came in, it was opened/inspected/etc. Little did I know that they did things differently. It would've been nice to have been told that when I was talking to Uncle V while on the phone with him. (I personally try to explain everything to MY customers so that they understand and don't turn on ME)

- The last time I've DROS'd a firearm was.........back in 05. All the DROS that I've done was paperwork, unlike City, through the electronic way. I had no idea they did it electronically and was expecting to spend about 40 minutes driving to and from SSF to Pacifica, and about half an hour to wait to pay for and complete the DROS (assuming I wont be the only customer here). That already has been my lunch break + some change. And that's MY reasoning for hoping to start the DROS early.

- Cheating them out of commission? I get cheated out of commission everyday, yet that isn't an excuse to be brash about anything! I'm just going to disregard the "hot-shot" comment.

- Spending less than two minutes with a customer....a few days ago, I had a customer that bought spark plugs from me and was working on his car in the parking lot and destroyed two spark plug wires and came back in and asked if I had any in stock. I did not. Instead of giving him the cold shoulder and helping another customer, I gave him the option of NAPA or AutoZone in Millbrae. I helped him call AutoZone (our DIRECT COMPETITOR) made sure they had the part, and had them deliver the wires to us to help the customer on his way. (Now I'm not saying i'm all high and mightly and what not, we all have our bad days) But I DID mention that I may have caught Uncle V on a "bad day".

- Mostly likely the cultural difference is what got me erked in the first place. I was not expecting that response as I've had better experiences in the past with Uncle V.

- And lastly, I paid them a visit for the DROS today and had a MUCH better experience than the previous one. Uncle V directed me to Dimitry to pay for the out of state DROS ($70), while I was waiting, Uncle V cracked a joke directed to me about yelling at Dimitry to hurry up, I was not expecting that at all. Then was directed to the only woman (I believe her name was Claudia?)in the store to do the DROS. Was in the store for about half an hour, more time than I planned to be in there, but I took my 15min break and my 1hr lunch break at the same time to buy myself extra time. I asked the woman there how Uncle V is, and had similar responses on CG compared to here statement. (Like I said earlier, and like how I'm going to say it AGAIN, maybe I caught Uncle V on a bad day)

I probably have missed something, but frankly, I could really care less anymore, there's WAYYYYYY too many posts to go through, and its 3:30am, I'm tired.
All in all, contrast to what I may have said in my first post, I MAY give them another try. They are the better stocked FFLs in the peninsula....

doughboy334
08-12-2010, 3:25 AM
They're Ukranians I believe, not Russians and I never had a problem with my business at their store. I never tried transferring a firearm to them though. They're supportive of the troops also, they have a wall up of fan mail items sent in by troops.

joelogic
08-12-2010, 10:43 AM
1. If you buy a gun from them they go out of their way to take care of you. I needed a Benelli M2 in black, D called me when he ordered it, D called me when it arrived, and he thanked me for my business when I picked it up.

2. I could care less how they treat their customers. You should see how much V gives to the Friends of the NRA in time and money. He is probably one of the largest supporters of our 2A rights.

Cyc Wid It
08-12-2010, 10:57 AM
2. I could care less how they treat their customers. You should see how much V gives to the Friends of the NRA in time and money. He is probably one of the largest supporters of our 2A rights.

So basically you're saying he can be like Larue and try to pay his way into our good graces? I was under the impression that the only benefits of a B&M are being able to personally check out the item and customer service.

dk94044
08-12-2010, 11:47 AM
Manners, speed, and politeness is not City Arm's forte. Their strength is that they know their **** about guns and gun laws. They also will not hassle you if you want to handle their guns on display.
It will take you a long time 30min-1hr for a out of state DROS. They don't rip you off, some FFL charge you for tax, these guys don't. They also have the balls enough to accept Saigas, ARs, etc. Be patient and wait in line, this is NOT Walmart.

kemasa
08-12-2010, 12:47 PM
Sorry, but following the law and charging sales tax is not ripping you off. While I am not in the area, finding out that they do not follow the law is a negative aspect. Yes, it might save you some money, but it can also cause problems. I don't like charging sales tax, but I follow the law and if I don't have to charge sales tax, I won't.

thedrickel
08-12-2010, 3:58 PM
I like them, they're nice guys once you get past the rough exterior. Plus I love dealing with Russian guys.

ScOuTeDbYmE
08-12-2010, 4:16 PM
On the claim that they might not like asians , I have several asian friends that would disagree with you .
hi mred, my name is ed. tell me what part about:
but that would be a different topic and blunt accusation right there which i dont want to start.
did you not comprehend? when i stated "blunt accusation," i pretty much meant it as a null point. thats for making me look like a racist.

They're supportive of the troops also, they have a wall up of fan mail items sent in by troops.
good for them. im not gonna go in there like the army wears their cami's just to gain importance because i did my time. if they cant even provide casual business etiquette, then i'll go look elsewhere.

on that note, im signing off this thread because some folks are missing the point and focusing on the petty side and others are simple misreading. im glad most of you all are provided great customer service from these gentlemen, but in my case, i would be that 1% negative review statistic. good luck and happy hunting!

wamphyri13
08-12-2010, 5:14 PM
I guess the bottom line here is, everyone has a different opinion about everything. You had a bad experience, okay. Try again. If you still don't like it, then move on. If you do like it, then stay. Your choice.

I've seen them very busy, and still have never had to wait too long to do a transfer. Maybe it's just me. Lucky I guess.

They are also not the only one who does DROS electronically. Bullseye Castro Valley does it as well. I think it will be the standard soon.

Regarding your statement about asians. I don't think you sound racist. I've seen them (City Arms) treat everyone the same regardless of color. After all, they only see green $$ :D

It seems something between you and them didn't click. It happens. I hope you work it out and realize they really are good people in a good shop. Good luck.
Ryan

kemasa
08-12-2010, 5:16 PM
All DROS has to to be done electronically. The 4473 can be done on paper or electronically, which I suspect is being talked about.

MrEd
08-12-2010, 5:17 PM
well Ed , the mere mention in your post is sufficient to allude that they could ( city arms ) have a racial bias .
I do understand undertones and nuances very well .
My post was designed to offer a greater understanding about a place that I always enjoy visiting and maybe offer an alternate explenation to the events that transpired that day .
My shortcoming might have been in that I did not urge you to take a step back and consider all the possible explenations .
I am sorry that you are trying to be beligerant as I hold absolutly no ill will towards you and I am deeply sadened by the fact that my post could be interpreted negatively as this was in no way my intent . If I hurt your feelings I would like to apologize to you publicaly .

doughboy334
08-12-2010, 10:55 PM
I'm asian, still never had a problem

Catheaven
08-12-2010, 11:14 PM
I wanted to get my HSC and my friend recommended City Arms. I have to admit walking into City Arms the first time was intimidating. First off it was my first time ever stepping into a gun store, I was nervous about taking the HSC test,and the guys behind the counters intimidated me. Took the test and passed and a couple months later ordered my pistol through them.

I do understand what the op is talking about their tone and manner. Uncle V can be very scary but once you start talking to him or watch him interact with his customers you can tell he knows his stuff. He's just is a non bs type of guy. Dimtri though is a lot friendlier. He helped me order my pistol and put me at ease with everything.

I have been in friendlier gun shops and I have been in a couple where i won't step foot in again.(b/c i didn't care for the way i was treated since i'm female).

good luck with your pick up and hopefully any future experiences will be better for you.

Mendo223
08-13-2010, 12:16 AM
i got my HSC at city arms and bought my first glock there. my friend who also took the HSC with me was russian, so i noticed that we got exceptional service. once my friend spoke russian to the guy he catered to our every needs.

there a few reasons you may have had a bad experiance.

gun shops get kinda pissy sometimes about transfers. they are angry you arent buying the gun from them. they get a nice 35-50 bucks out of the deal, but for some reason they always seem a little angry. i have experianced this in EVERY gun shop i have ever been it, dont take it personal.

also, sometimes people have bad days. maybe he was just angry that day, who knows. all and all, i think he acted a little out of line. but i dont think it warranted a whole thread bashing them, i think City Arms does really good things for the san francisco peninsula gun culture, its surrounded by liberals and anti gunnies who would love to shut them down. plus, i LOVE their radio commercials, i wish more gun shops would do that!

andalusi
08-13-2010, 12:30 AM
on that note, im signing off this thread because some folks are missing the point and focusing on the petty side and others are simple misreading. im glad most of you all are provided great customer service from these gentlemen, but in my case, i would be that 1% negative review statistic. good luck and happy hunting!

Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean that person doesn't understand you. No one's missing your point, no one's misreading what you wrote, and if it seems like most people find your complaints to be "pettiness" (your word), perhaps you should weigh which is the more likely scenario: (1) everyone but your and your buddy are meanie pants dummyheads who just don't understand or (2) everyone else might just have a point.

Seriously, your flouncing doesn't do you any credit to your claims of maturity.

Inkman
08-13-2010, 7:07 AM
Usually shops that treat people soooo poorly, don't have enough business generated to open another shop. These guys are doing so good in this rotten economy that they will open another shop in the east bay next week. I'd say that's a sign they are doing something right ;)

Al

NorCal_
08-13-2010, 9:16 AM
I think you misread Uncle V. I'm in my mid-thirties and he's always called me young man. These guys are always busy, so they must be doing something right. To the person suggesting they are not following the law by charging you tax on your online purchase, that is your responsibility to pay those taxes not them. While everyone's opinion about them will vary, I've had nothing but good experiences with them. I will admit at first I was kinda put off by them, but having gone in the shop a bunch of times you'll see how great these guys are. They may seem cold but if you've gone in there enough and build some kind of relationship with them, cold would be none of the last words one would use to describe these guys. Oh and the mere suggestion that these guys are racist; I've gone in there multiple times and the majority of their customers are white or asian so to say they don't like asians is pure bull***t.

kemasa
08-13-2010, 10:07 AM
NorCal, you are wrong about the sales tax issue. The BOE requires that the Firearms Dealer collect the sales tax. Please learn about this so that you do not post incorrect information.

See: CA Sales Tax Firearms Information 495.0843 & 495.0848

blisster
08-13-2010, 10:47 AM
another +1 fpr Vlad, Dimitry and City Arms.

Russian culture, speech and affectation can seem very harsh and blunt to others. Hell, a warm compliment can sound like a fight being instigated to an outsider.

I've also noticed over time that most people under 22 or 23 years old are easily offended and don't like being called 'kids' as they feel it is demeaning and a disrespectful thing to say to someone who is as grown-up as they are.

I think you mistakenly took offense on both accounts, as I've always for City Arms to be a fine place to do business, they're good guys and its a good shop.

ETA: It's apparent after reading both of your responses in the thread that you ARE kids.

cyclenut
08-13-2010, 12:59 PM
Usually shops that treat people soooo poorly, don't have enough business generated to open another shop. These guys are doing so good in this rotten economy that they will open another shop in the east bay next week. I'd say that's a sign they are doing something right ;)

Al

News to me! :eek: Where in the East Bay is their new shop? They will have my business.

Code7inOaktown
08-13-2010, 1:19 PM
Usually shops that treat people soooo poorly, don't have enough business generated to open another shop. These guys are doing so good in this rotten economy that they will open another shop in the east bay next week. I'd say that's a sign they are doing something right ;)

Al

Oh, really? Where at?

CalNRA
08-13-2010, 1:22 PM
News to me! :eek: Where in the East Bay is their new shop? They will have my business.

real close to DVGW is I remember correctly.

rrr70
08-13-2010, 2:59 PM
NorCal, you are wrong about the sales tax issue. The BOE requires that the Firearms Dealer collect the sales tax. Please learn about this so that you do not post incorrect information.

See: CA Sales Tax Firearms Information 495.0843 & 495.0848

And how do you know how much to charge?

kemasa
08-13-2010, 3:18 PM
That is a problem. In general, you need to get a receipt or a printout from an auction site. The BOE does not care that it is a problem.

Bad Voodoo
08-13-2010, 6:47 PM
City Arms is arguably the best shop the Bay area has to offer (definitely in the top 3). The guys are great. They're knowledgeable. They support the cause. They're no BS. They generally have a great selection of firearms, ammo and accessories, and they're capable of great all-around deals.

Grow a thicker skin, Nancy-boys. ;) You just aren't going to be treated "better" in any other shop around.

joelogic
08-13-2010, 7:33 PM
You might have had a bad experience at city arms but check out the other shops.

Tabor does not waste words on pleasantries.
Imbert and Smithers only sells sealed magwell ar's and tell people they are the only legal kind.
An east bay shop, as soon as I walk in the guy behind the counters yells he hates calgunners because they are cheap. (which is actually true but still he didn't need to yell it).
Bullseye charges something like $275 for ffl to ffl transfers.

+1 for asians. B&Ms are more for instant satisfaction. If you want high level service you have to pay a premium. Magnolia hifi vs walmart. People want low prices and great service which can be hard to produce.

swerv512
08-13-2010, 8:12 PM
Uncle V and most the City Arms crew are good-to-go in my book. My only regret is not having enough money to go buy some more firearms from them.

nagorb
08-13-2010, 8:39 PM
They only guy I don't really like is the young guy, he's always so serious, but he's very helpful and courteous which is much more than I can say about the other shops in the area.

welchy
08-13-2010, 9:39 PM
Hey kids, if you don't like a store's policies, open your own. I didn't see anything that indicated that the store was picking on you, doing anything illegal or even abnormal. Yea, you're excited to get your very first handgun but, so what? The bussiness is not going to stop everything, close their doors and go through every box a couple hours early just to make you happy. If you are younger than the grumpy old man, he has the right to call you a kid and you have the right not to like it. In fact, if you are older than him, he still has the right to call you a kid and you still have the right not to like it. It sure sounds to me like you are spoiled "kids" who are complaining about someone not catering to your wishes.

BTW, I have never been to the shop in question and have zero connection to it other than I used to fish off the Pacifica peir.

+1
You might want to try getting out of the country once or twice, and no the military doesn't count. It very well may be a cultural thing and if you have a rifle in your hand you do not get a chance to really understand culture no matter what any one says.

WeekendWarrior
08-14-2010, 3:49 PM
I dont know fellas, sounds like SOP for every gun shop I have been to hahaha. I dont think I have ever had a good experience unless you count cabellas.

rrr70
08-14-2010, 6:39 PM
I dont know fellas, sounds like SOP for every gun shop I have been to hahaha. I dont think I have ever had a good experience unless you count cabellas.

Maybe it's you?

nagorb
08-14-2010, 7:02 PM
I dont know fellas, sounds like SOP for every gun shop I have been to hahaha. I dont think I have ever had a good experience unless you count cabellas.

That's how I feel about the rest of the shops on the peninsula, that's why I like City Arms.

Refael
08-15-2010, 7:10 PM
Ladies and gents, sounds like this thread has been on for too long. The whole complaint that started the thread has to do more with LACK OF MATURITY ON THE CLIENT'S PART than the customer service at City Arms. They are a great dealer, with the best prices and good customer service. If you ever buy guns at Gunbroker - you can't check them out beforehand, and with the shipping and transfer fees added - your savings are insignificant compared to CITY ARM'S prices. So far they have THE CHEAPEST AMMO, and best prices on guns in the Bay Area.
I knew both "Dmitry" and "Uncle V" ever since they have opened up in Pacifica. They are both great guys with a sense of humor. Don't let their accents scare you off; when they casually say "so, are you gonna buy something today?" they are JOKING with you. And if they refuse to bend over backwards for such a ridiculous request - how can you blame them? I understand it is your FIRST gun, I understand that you took your time off during lunch....but that does not mean that you should get upset when things cannot work out the way you wish.

santacruzstefan
08-15-2010, 7:58 PM
I'm gonna have to check this place out... their prices are pretty good, huh? Know if there are ever any arsenal ak's in stock?

nagorb
08-15-2010, 8:05 PM
I'm gonna have to check this place out... their prices are pretty good, huh? Know if there are ever any arsenal ak's in stock?

Only AKs I've ever seen are .22s or Saigas, but I've never really paid attention because I'm usually there to check out handguns.

QuarterBoreGunner
08-15-2010, 9:05 PM
Uncle V and Dimitry are good to go. My favorite gun store in the Bay Area, hands down.

BigJake
08-16-2010, 11:12 AM
Uncle V and Dimitri call me "New Generation" instead of kid.

shooting4life
08-16-2010, 11:56 AM
They have a nice selection of new handguns. They keep the same handguns in stock most of the time so if you want to see something different than the last time you were in the shop hen another store might be best. I like used handguns and junk boxes so I go to imbert and Smithers more than I would go to city arms. If I have an out of state transfer I'll do it st city arms or if I ever want to purchase a new gun (which I have bought a few) I would do it from city arms.

QuarterBoreGunner
08-16-2010, 11:58 AM
Uncle V and Dimitri call me "New Generation" instead of kid.

That's Uncle Vs standard greeting for anyone younger than him unless he knows your name.

stix213
08-16-2010, 2:58 PM
Realize that when you buy a gun off gunbroker that you could have ordered through the gun store, you are literally giving the store owner the middle finger.

The gun store owner's attitude makes more sense when you understand what you were doing in the first place.

bwiese
08-16-2010, 3:06 PM
Never had a bad experience with city arms, never been called kid, usually young man, always give me good deals. I believe the guy you talked to was the owner. Your really gonna be upset he called you kid? sounds like you might have a chip on your shoulder.

Bingo.

I'd prob call you kid too.

Oh - the OP's ***** about taxes - yeah, taxes need to be collected by the FFL. If an FFL doesn't, he's a violator/low-IQ/doesn't-know-crap.
Just because you think he's wrong doesn't mean you're right. (Typical "kid").


DROS only takes about 30 mins, not sure but I believe you can't start it until the gun is present.Yeah, smart FFL isn't gonna risk it - gun in hand before paper starts.

Vladimir & Dmitri have one of the best-run gunshops around and do a helluva lot for the NRA and shooting in general. They're in the belly of the beast.

My transactions as well as numerous ones of my friends' have gone smoothly. I'd do biz there even if I were called an asshat by them (which I prob deserve).

nagorb
08-16-2010, 4:28 PM
Bingo.

I'd prob call you kid too.

Oh - the OP's ***** about taxes - yeah, taxes need to be collected by the FFL. If an FFL doesn't, he's a violator/low-IQ/doesn't-know-crap.
Just because you think he's wrong doesn't mean you're right. (Typical "kid").


Yeah, smart FFL isn't gonna risk it - gun in hand before paper starts.

Vladimir & Dmitri have one of the best-run gunshops around and do a helluva lot for the NRA and shooting in general. They're in the belly of the beast.

My transactions as well as numerous ones of my friends' have gone smoothly. I'd do biz there even if I were called an asshat by them (which I prob deserve).

Don't be so hard on yourself, I'd say your more of a assless chap, spandex wearing lady boy:eek:

MontClaire
08-16-2010, 5:03 PM
Congratulations! You've met the Vladimir. The big f..n idiot! He will try to downgrade your purchase for less quality because he knows you'll comeback for the real stuff and he makes dowble commission off of you. I come to the store sometime but I only talk to either Dmitry who is the real owner of the shop or Bob who is a great honest fella. He has no arm. Everyone else there is not worth talking to. Unless you speak to owner directly, you might endup wishing you never entered this shop.
Sorry to read about your experience I'm sure threre are other more worthy stores in around the bay where they treat you with a little more respect.
Good luck.