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View Full Version : Airsoft is the key to reversing gun control in California...


xenophobe
04-30-2006, 10:45 PM
Look at the growing popularity of Airsoft... many of these people will end up crossing over, and end up buying firearms.

Overall, it will make Assault Weapons less politically evil. It will 'wow' the kids, and they'll want their Airsoft guns, and since they're toys, many parents will tolerate this, or give in to their kids based on the liberal 'let the kids do whatever they want'... they'll grow accustomed to seeing them. Learning function, safety and tactical training... it will eventually bring about the urge to own the real thing, and then when they get jobs, have children, run for office, etc... they won't have the stigma of the 'evil black guns of wars' that many of the children of the 60's and 70's who are in office now believe...

I could write more, and delve into the psychological ramifications of this growing acceptability of this safer, modern and realistic BB gun, but it seems pretty apparent to me working in the business and seeing how many are crossing over, many of whom have jumped onboard with their first firearm being an off-list lower, fueling the 'lower craze' a great deal.

Anyone else have any thoughts about this? Do you see the long term acceptability of AWs changing in this state? The storm isn't over, that's for sure, but are clear skies ahead?

kantstudien
04-30-2006, 11:08 PM
Look at the growing popularity of Airsoft... many of these people will end up crossing over, and end up buying firearms.

I know, don't remind me. :rolleyes:

Last thing we need are a bunch of wannabe mall ninja types buying real guns and representing legitimate, responsible gun owners. Let the little boys play with their airsoft and leave the real guns to grown-ups.

50 Freak
05-01-2006, 12:22 AM
I walked into an Airsoft Extreme store next to the 101. Could not believe the prices these "toys" and thier assesories were going for.....

Geez, went back to my car told the wife...even she said "dumbasses".

Hey to each their own I guess. We gun owners in CA can use all the help we can get. Even Mall ninjas...

xrevxoltx
05-01-2006, 12:27 AM
I know, don't remind me. :rolleyes:

Last thing we need are a bunch of wannabe mall ninja types buying real guns and representing legitimate, responsible gun owners. Let the little boys play with their airsoft and leave the real guns to grown-ups.
Yes, leave the real guns to the grown ups. And while we're at it, let's define "grown ups" as government agents, because obviously nobody else can be responsible with firearms. Elitist attitudes like that are the problem. Everybody should be entitled to own a firearm, regardless of what brought their interest to them.

kantstudien
05-01-2006, 12:56 AM
Everybody should be entitled to own a firearm, regardless of what brought their interest to them.

Well, I don't think you would personally want to sell a gun to a drunk, a rapist, or a gang-banga, so you might want to qualify that statement. But I do understand where you are going with it.

If people understand gun safety and are responsible enough to carry it out every time, then I have no problems with them owning guns. But that right there rules out a goodly section of current gun owners, let alone airsofters.

I am aware of responsible people who use airsoft to supplement their firearms training by providing force-on-force realism, but those who live in "airsoft-land" are delusional, much like people who live in "Counterstrike-land" and so on. I will do nothing to encourage gun ownership for these types of people, but I will encourage them to not reproduce.

xrevxoltx
05-01-2006, 1:07 AM
The fact of the matter is that the 2nd amendment makes no limits on who can or cannot own a gun. Responsibility is nice and all, but harboring prejudice against people simply because of the reason for their interest in guns is wrong. The way to get people to respect firearms is to teach them proper handling, safety precautions, and the law, not to restrict them from owning them. If an airsofter or Counter-Strike player wants to buy a gun, by all means they should be allowed to, without criticism. However, if they do choose to commit a crime or they do handle their firearms negligently, harsh punishments should be handed down.

Also, I am not trying to be hostile towards you, and I'm sure you agree with me in the above post. I guess I just needed to say it.

Parados13
05-01-2006, 1:17 AM
Just my two cents:

I am an Airsoft Convert myself, and I jumped ship when a friend of mine re-introduced me to the world of firearms last year. I shot a ruger 10/22 and a (Rock Arms I think?) 1911 on some private property when I was a lot younger, and it was one of the reasons why I bought an airsoft gun: There was a lot of time to kill between how old I was then and 21. I'd like to say that the "wow, I'm cool" feeling stayed with the airsoft, because the safety concerns with losing eyesight and accidently shooting non-combatants set the foundation for the discipline I exert today when it comes to firearms.

I bought my first handgun last december, and I just picked up my lever action last week. I still have my "AK Beita Spetznaz" because it is the only "rifle" that I will be able to have in california with a "silencer" :D And who knows, it may serve some purpose in the future after I take some home defense courses.

I will acknowledge the fact though that airsoft prices are ridiculous (the price I paid for my AK could have easily bought a nice rifle or a down payment on a 1911 or ammo or lessons etc etc etc) .

ghostrider4evr
05-01-2006, 1:42 AM
I personally think airsoft is a good thing as long as the wrong types of people don't get into it. So I don't see what is wrong with people from "airsoft land" or "counterstrike land". They are just hobbies/ pass times much like owning guns for some people. As long as these guys aren't commiting crimes then it's all good with me. So you are generalizing and calling the vast numbers of airsoft and counterstrike players delusional? Heck, gun owners are often called delusional and it pisses me off when people that don't know jack about something make assumptions like that.

Jedi
05-01-2006, 3:07 AM
I know, don't remind me. :rolleyes:

Last thing we need are a bunch of wannabe mall ninja types buying real guns and representing legitimate, responsible gun owners. Let the little boys play with their airsoft and leave the real guns to grown-ups.

This is a very broad, and ignorant, statement. I think you might be surprised to know that airsoft players come from all walks of life. In fact there are fulltime/reserve law enforcement officers and active duty/reserve/retired military personnel who enjoy airsoft. Many people who are upstanding citizens and have owned real steel firearms for decades still enjoy airsoft.

Now, don't get me wrong, there are idiots who play airsoft. There are even some that have a blurred sense of reality. Sadly enough, there are the same type of people who own real firearms. This has little to do with the recreational outlet and more to do the psychological stability a portion of our society.

The reality is that statements like yours serve only one purpose: to isolate gun owners as elitists that can not embrace the next generation of gun owners.

asintado
05-01-2006, 3:43 AM
I'll admit that not all airsoft players are "mallrat ninjas". I've met the miliary/LEO type using airsoft as a way to hone their tactics. I do however believe that airsoft does have an element of complacency amongst the users. Airsoft can be dangerous but I've seen the type who fire off a couple rounds to make sure their action is working or those who will accidentally discharge their weapon and hit a buddy. In the firearms realm that won't fly. One can argue thats its non-lethal but the discipline of handling firearms has to start somewhere.

50BMGBOB
05-01-2006, 10:33 AM
After owning several firearms, I bought an airsoft to practice drawing and shooting with. I can do it at home when I can't get to the range and won't hurt my self as I learn and work on speed. That being said, I do treat it like a real firearm. It even lives in my safe with the real ones.

bbq_ribs
05-01-2006, 10:41 AM
I just worry about the anti-war types that go nuts claiming that "war toys make kids violent" lobbying to have airsoft stuff further restricted too. Cuz, you know, it's for the children. Won't someone think of the children?

Even though their arguement is BS, the Brady Bill turkeys know that putting up 'innocent children' as a front often works.

True story: I knew people like that. This was when I lived in Japan, too. it was another American family next door. Their child was not allowed to have any war toys, toy guns/knives or anything 'violent.' Again, this was in Japan, so he wasn't watching TV and being bombarded with advertisements constantly, and there weren't any toy stores around that the kid knew of.

This child was an absolute demon. He was probably the most violent child within 5 miles. Not the first time I've seen that, either.
I don't buy the Brady hype. Toy guns and video games don't make kids more violent. That's ridiculous. But I digress...

Clodbuster
05-01-2006, 11:52 AM
Unfortunately, the more airsoft proliferates, the more likely it will be banned. While airsoft players try to promote that they are upstanding citizens in the community, and that airsoft is a "sport", the matter of fact is that it will never be accepted in society.

FWIW, I have been collecting airsoft for over 21 years, and have seen it go away with the unfortunate shooting deaths of kids playing with lazer tag by police back in the late 80's. A "loophole" in the import laws allowed it to be imported back in the US in the mid 90s, but I have no doubt I will see it go away again before the end of the decade.


Clod

Look at the growing popularity of Airsoft... many of these people will end up crossing over, and end up buying firearms.

Overall, it will make Assault Weapons less politically evil. It will 'wow' the kids, and they'll want their Airsoft guns, and since they're toys, many parents will tolerate this, or give in to their kids based on the liberal 'let the kids do whatever they want'... they'll grow accustomed to seeing them. Learning function, safety and tactical training... it will eventually bring about the urge to own the real thing, and then when they get jobs, have children, run for office, etc... they won't have the stigma of the 'evil black guns of wars' that many of the children of the 60's and 70's who are in office now believe...

I could write more, and delve into the psychological ramifications of this growing acceptability of this safer, modern and realistic BB gun, but it seems pretty apparent to me working in the business and seeing how many are crossing over, many of whom have jumped onboard with their first firearm being an off-list lower, fueling the 'lower craze' a great deal.

Anyone else have any thoughts about this? Do you see the long term acceptability of AWs changing in this state? The storm isn't over, that's for sure, but are clear skies ahead?

grammaton76
05-01-2006, 12:12 PM
Actually, there's an Airsoft Extreme right next to my house. Now, the prices may seem high to you, but a lot of the things they're selling aren't made for airsoft.

They're stocking REAL quad rails, forward handguards, etc. A lot of airsofters, in their quest to empty their wallets, will just buy accessories for real guns to install on their airsoft guns. Heck, I bought a POSP scope there for my PAR-1.

I visit Airsoft Extreme once a month or so, and I have yet to buy anything there for my airsoft guns. ;)

Side note, if there are airsoft shops near you, try bringing in some off-list fliers; if no one else, maybe the employees will be interested. The local guys were interested, I just need to get off my rear and bring some in for them. When I was in, they were all dying for off-list info so they could get some real AR's.

50 Freak
05-01-2006, 12:41 PM
You guys are not seeing that airsoft is a very very valuable training tool.

There was this Japanese speed shooter who came to the US a few years ago. He held his pistol very close to his face as that was the way he practiced with his airsoft back in Japan (guns are illegal there, and he only had an airsoft pistol). Our guys made fun of his style till he royally kicked our shooters's behinds during the competition.

Anyone remember his name?

My neighbor plays airsoft. Been meaning to pick it up as it will train you on manuevers. However, it just costs an arm and leg to get one of those guns. Geez, $400-$700 for an airsoft automatic rifle. I paid less for some of my real guns.

Centurion_D
05-01-2006, 2:14 PM
Yea..but all it takes is one idiot to get the idea of using one of these airsoft guns to pull a evil deed..and guess what will happen to this hobby so many ppl enjoy. You all know.

phish
05-01-2006, 2:39 PM
There was this Japanese speed shooter who came to the US a few years ago. He held his pistol very close to his face as that was the way he practiced with his airsoft back in Japan (guns are illegal there, and he only had an airsoft pistol). Our guys made fun of his style till he royally kicked our shooters's behinds during the competition.

Anyone remember his name?


http://www.steelchallenge.com/steelchallenge/2006/results.htm

Tetsuya Sakai, 2004 Steel Challenge winner

I remember seeing him on either American Shooter or Shooting USA. He even donated the pistol he won to another shooter since he couldn't take it home with him.

Clodbuster
05-03-2006, 12:01 PM
Unfornately, this "tool" is ending up in some very young hands.

Clod

You guys are not seeing that airsoft is a very very valuable training tool.

There was this Japanese speed shooter who came to the US a few years ago. He held his pistol very close to his face as that was the way he practiced with his airsoft back in Japan (guns are illegal there, and he only had an airsoft pistol). Our guys made fun of his style till he royally kicked our shooters's behinds during the competition.

Anyone remember his name?

My neighbor plays airsoft. Been meaning to pick it up as it will train you on manuevers. However, it just costs an arm and leg to get one of those guns. Geez, $400-$700 for an airsoft automatic rifle. I paid less for some of my real guns.

Clodbuster
05-03-2006, 12:05 PM
It's already been used in many evil deeds.

Some have been killed possesing them. Fortunately they were all adults, and the the shootings ruled "suicide by cop". When the day comes that a child gets killed holding one, it'll be hard to put that label on the incident and dismiss the shooting.


Clod

Yea..but all it takes is one idiot to get the idea of using one of these airsoft guns to pull a evil deed..and guess what will happen to this hobby so many ppl enjoy. You all know.

tpliquid1
05-03-2006, 12:10 PM
not hinkign abuot making money...airsoft is the new fad... start selling airsoft stuff!!

anywas i have buncha airsoft guns... dad went to japan in 95 saw some mp5s...he bought one and send it back here.. first on the block to have a airsoft back in 1995

ALTSEC972
05-03-2006, 12:22 PM
Clodbuster, what about the several middle school, and highschool kids that have been killed this year, taking their classes hostage with airsoft/ replica/ whatever.

Look, I have been playing airsoft for a number of years. That amount of time pails in comparison to the 20 years I have been around firearms, and I do not believe in treating airsoft in any other manner than I would a real firearm.

I miss the days growing up, when my dad, one of his friends, and a couple of my friends would go to the range. I miss the "FREE" places to shoot in Angeles, where you could shoot up all of the stuff people would just dump out there...... (Toilets, fridges, cars, Bathtubs, etc.)... There were no rules about rate of fire, or where you had to shoot from... There was no range officer; the park rangers would come by once in a while, but that was about it.

Airsoft can be a valuable training tool, I have seen it really take off over the years. It is now at the point where most of the rifles will accept any real (steel) accessories. Our great nation has regulations on airsoft, like the bright orange barrels, and they restrict it's sale (somewhat). I don't see it going away any time soon.

VeryCoolCat
05-03-2006, 8:56 PM
Airsoft is the ONLY full auto us civilians can get...... Sad isn;t it.

shooterx10
05-04-2006, 7:54 AM
I'll echo the posters who stated that airsoft is a great training tool. I know of some action pistol shooters (IPSC, IDPA, etc.) who supplement their range practice with live ammo with practicing in their garages or their backyards (away from prying eyes) using the airsoft equivalent.

The Western Arms pistols fit in the Safariland 012, Limcat, or whatever else speed holster is made for the STI or SVI pistols.

Some of these fixed up Western Arms Infinity pistols costs just as much as the real steel!

http://www.dentrinity.com/ClarenceLai/Img/M-898.jpg

Clodbuster
05-04-2006, 11:33 AM
I've heard of some high school kids being expelled for bringing airsoft guns to school, but I wasn't aware of any high school kids being killed. Do you have a link?
I used to bring pellet guns to school (zebra, tracer disc, airsoft), and the worst we ever got was scolded by the principle, along side with the janitor who was tired of sweeping up pellets... missed those days. Stopped by my old high school in SF a year ago, and with the metal detectors and cyclone fencing, look liked a prison.
I've always been a fan of airsoft, and never really into real steel. To me, a real firearm had limited use compared to toy guns (i.e. I like shooting at things other than paper and metal targets). Ended up owning a chinese made Uzi 9mm carbine when Fiendstein pushed the toy gun ban statewide. An airsoft version would've cost 25% more by buying it overseas, disassembling it and shipping it to the states.
Interesting how our society has de-evolved into this.

But what I'm concerned about are the 8~10 year olds who seem to be getting their hands on airsoft. If something unfortunate happens with airsoft and this age group, I can tell you for a certainty, that the "blaze orange paint permanently affixed to the muzzle" will be deemed insufficient by the government. The only sale restriction is by age (16 and older). But then so are cigarettes and liquor...and we know how well that works.


Clod

Clodbuster, what about the several middle school, and highschool kids that have been killed this year, taking their classes hostage with airsoft/ replica/ whatever.

Look, I have been playing airsoft for a number of years. That amount of time pails in comparison to the 20 years I have been around firearms, and I do not believe in treating airsoft in any other manner than I would a real firearm.

I miss the days growing up, when my dad, one of his friends, and a couple of my friends would go to the range. I miss the "FREE" places to shoot in Angeles, where you could shoot up all of the stuff people would just dump out there...... (Toilets, fridges, cars, Bathtubs, etc.)... There were no rules about rate of fire, or where you had to shoot from... There was no range officer; the park rangers would come by once in a while, but that was about it.

Airsoft can be a valuable training tool, I have seen it really take off over the years. It is now at the point where most of the rifles will accept any real (steel) accessories. Our great nation has regulations on airsoft, like the bright orange barrels, and they restrict it's sale (somewhat). I don't see it going away any time soon.

Clodbuster
05-04-2006, 11:35 AM
What is even sader:

Back in 2002 there was an effort by some LE departments to restrict sale of full auto airsofts for LE training only.

Clod

Airsoft is the ONLY full auto us civilians can get...... Sad isn;t it.

Boondocksaint
05-04-2006, 11:52 AM
I'm a pretty hardcore airsofter. I've been active in the SD airsoft scene for a few years now and have finally found my niche with a group that plays hard.

$400-700 is low end for this group. Most of our guns shoot in the 600-800 fps range with .25g BB's. We usually use .28's or higher to get the extra range and flat trajectory. When properly built, an airsoft gun can shoot a 2" group at 100 yards with no wind.

There are a lot of players who just want to go out and shoot each other, and that's fine. But there's also the players who will be happy completing game objectives without firing a shot.

As far as the "mall ninja" comment goes, Airsoft is WAY to big and diverse to stereotype the players that way. Don't knock it untill you've tried it.

xenophobe
05-04-2006, 12:13 PM
I wonder how many anti-gun soccer moms have kids who are Airsoft fanatics. They see their kid's airsoft AWs laying around their room, them having so much fun doing things, and generally doing it lawfully (meaning they don't see their kids getting into trouble doing drugs or other things)....

Having these around people who would normally be frightened to death of AWs like some girls and spiders has a numbing effect. Eventually they won't think anything of them, and their image in turn, won't seem as evil or vile. Just something they see laying about the house in the kid's room doing no harm.

I think the psychological effect on many people will lessen the overall fear to ban assault weapons, and may one day cause the issue to be mostly overlooked.

In the last 10 years, the proliferation of video games with AWs, and Airsoft, as well as seeing what is happening in circumstances like Katrina, many people who were adamantly on the other side of the fence may not really care, or feel like choosing sides, and instead be less concerned with them than other things that are more important.

Just my thoughts....

grammaton76
05-04-2006, 12:28 PM
Having these around people who would normally be frightened to death of AWs like some girls and spiders has a numbing effect. Eventually they won't think anything of them, and their image in turn, won't seem as evil or vile. Just something they see laying about the house in the kid's room doing no harm.

"Oh well, little Johnny just bought the grownup version of his Airsoft gun. No big deal." I'd love to see that.

Of course, I imagine that California now has a fair number of 18yo airsofters who're hiding off-list rifles in their rooms, telling their moms it's just more airsoft. I know the shop I used to buy my airsoft at in Japan actually used that kind of excuse, but as a front for real gun running... only found that out on my last visit (day before returning to the US).

Man, that was a trip... I actually got to hold a fully auto AK.

blacklisted
05-04-2006, 12:46 PM
I know a young airsofter doing the exact thing you described. :D

Let's see if he's reading this!

"Oh well, little Johnny just bought the grownup version of his Airsoft gun. No big deal." I'd love to see that.

Of course, I imagine that California now has a fair number of 18yo airsofters who're hiding off-list rifles in their rooms, telling their moms it's just more airsoft. I know the shop I used to buy my airsoft at in Japan actually used that kind of excuse, but as a front for real gun running... only found that out on my last visit (day before returning to the US).

Man, that was a trip... I actually got to hold a fully auto AK.

PanzerAce
05-04-2006, 12:54 PM
I know a young airsofter doing the exact thing you described. :D

Let's see if he's reading this!

hehe, well, my younger bro (he is 15) is into airsoft, but he doesnt know I have my Stags :D (or my NDS-3 for that matter)

He will be PISSED when he finds out that I have an AR :D

fatass
05-06-2006, 7:31 PM
I was thinking about this today, and the origins of airsoft which I believe currently is primarily from Japan. Japan houses the top airsoft companies such as Tokyo Marui, Tanaka, KSC and Western Arms. Their products have typically passed through to other countries usually through Hong Kong and Taiwan. A few years ago as I understand the majority of the guns purchased by people from the United States passed through distributors from Hong Kong.

I believe the idea is that airsoft will bring about more public exposure to guns, get the people more comfortable or used to the idea of them and eventually make the leap that real guns aren't that bad. The irony here is that the airsoft guns are produced in a nation that bans virtually all firearms. The only reason that they came about was due to the fact that Japan prohibits all citizens from owning guns. The only thing they can dream about having is a shotgun which would make our 10 day DROS look like a cakewalk.

Airsoft serves as a subsitute to real guns. Indeed their purpose is to allow the user to get as close an experience to owning the real steel. One of my fears is that they'll gain too much public interest, negative interest. The practical purposes of airsoft are slim. They can't defend you, people who aren't allowed to have real steel now have access to something that for the most part serve the same purpose at a small fraction of the hassle.

The Soup Nazi
05-06-2006, 8:15 PM
I was thinking about this today, and the origins of airsoft which I believe currently is primarily from Japan. Japan houses the top airsoft companies such as Tokyo Marui, Tanaka, KSC and Western Arms. Their products have typically passed through to other countries usually through Hong Kong and Taiwan. A few years ago as I understand the majority of the guns purchased by people from the United States passed through distributors from Hong Kong.

I believe the idea is that airsoft will bring about more public exposure to guns, get the people more comfortable or used to the idea of them and eventually make the leap that real guns aren't that bad. The irony here is that the airsoft guns are produced in a nation that bans virtually all firearms. The only reason that they came about was due to the fact that Japan prohibits all citizens from owning guns. The only thing they can dream about having is a shotgun which would make our 10 day DROS look like a cakewalk.

Airsoft serves as a subsitute to real guns. Indeed their purpose is to allow the user to get as close an experience to owning the real steel. One of my fears is that they'll gain too much public interest, negative interest. The practical purposes of airsoft are slim. They can't defend you, people who aren't allowed to have real steel now have access to something that for the most part serve the same purpose at a small fraction of the hassle.

The handle of the axe comes from the forest.

OptionX3
05-06-2006, 8:56 PM
. Most of our guns shoot in the 600-800 fps range with .25g BB's....a 2" group at 100 yards with no wind.

I dont know but, can you elaborate more on this (specs)? I know they can do 400-500fps, but 600-800fps seems kind of high. 800fps is pretty close to speed of .45 ACP rounds. And I dont think even .177 pellet guns (~900fps) can group 2" at 100 yrds.

PanzerAce
05-06-2006, 9:00 PM
The handle of the axe comes from the forest.

uh.....I THINK that related, but I really dont see how...

RyanTSG
05-06-2006, 9:19 PM
My 2 cents.


As an airsofter who also has been around reel steel most of my life, airsoft has a bunch of pluses that many real steel people over look.

1. Airsoft is a great tool for developing muscle memory allowing people to use real firearms more effectively.
2. Many Airsoft enthusiasts are LEO Ex-Military types who want to still train.
3. When you get a large organized game people can experience military combat action without actually being in the military.
4. It makes real firearms more acceptable if people get used to respecting airsoft guns (Mags out, treat the weapon as loaded, safety discipline, and trigger discipline)

I have played at large games with 200 people sides that were led by real honest to goodness war heroes (Danny Mcknight, Ken Miller). Real steel is good for protecting my home, but for SHTF scenarios airsoft can offer some vary valuable training aids that cost thousands to learn with real steel, let alone having to go out of state to take the classes.

Plus I look funny at the range in my full tack gear that I want to have for SHTF, and at an airsoft event, I will just fit right in.

Finally the reason many airsoft parts are so expensive is that airsoft is actually an amazing art of mechanical engineering. It is easy to make a chemical explosion to propel a projectile accurately with lethal force, it is much harder to have a piston compress air and have the bb fly accurately at some distance, but still cause no damage to a person if hit with it, along with the fact that a lot of my airsoft gear is for real guns (SIR, scopes, slings, etc).

The Soup Nazi
05-06-2006, 9:30 PM
uh.....I THINK that related, but I really dont see how...

The solution to gun control coming from the country that has gun control?

Boondocksaint
05-06-2006, 10:03 PM
I dont know but, can you elaborate more on this (specs)? I know they can do 400-500fps, but 600-800fps seems kind of high. 800fps is pretty close to speed of .45 ACP rounds. And I dont think even .177 pellet guns (~900fps) can group 2" at 100 yrds.

I'd be happy to elaborate. When propperly built and sealed, you have ALL the air in the cylinder pushing your round. Coupled with a tight-bore barrel, this is a LOT of pressure. Using a .25g BB at these velocities is kind of absurd as your trajectory and accuracy are MUCH improved using a heavier BB with a modified hop-up unit.

Yes, 800fps is approching .45acp velocity, however, a .45 round weighs anywhere from 160-230 grains, whereas a 6mm BB fired from an airsoft gun weighs about 3.858 grains. There's not enough energy in the lightweight BB to inflict the kind of damage a .45 would. It still hurts though.

Comp .177 rifles can easily shoot 2" groups at 100 yards. The airsoft rifle I was referring to was a bolt action that was HIGHLY tuned and using ALL custom parts with VERY heavy BB's. It was a blast to shoot.

Hope that helped.

WhiteGT
05-06-2006, 11:20 PM
I have played at large games with 200 people sides that were led by real honest to goodness war heroes (Danny Mcknight, Ken Miller).

OP: Irene or Lion claws?:D Btw, been to the fort ord games? Very target rich environment.


A lot of airsofters are very active real gun shooters and collectors. Airsoft is a great way to train safety such as muzzle and trigger finger discipline. I try to teach the newer younger generation of airsofter to keep their finger off the trigger until they are ready to fire. Makes me happy they know this stuff when they get the chance to fire a real gun.

Oh and trust me, a LOT of us know about the off-list situation.

boosterboy
05-06-2006, 11:28 PM
Well, I've playing airsoft for about 5 months, and all I have concluded is

1. 95% of airsofters are mall ninjas/counterstrike/mega force members.

2. too many parents bringing their 14 YO kids into the shop and buying them guns.
3. it takes about a week before you realize the ballistic limitations of a 6mm spherical BB that weighs in the range of .2 -.25 grams.

4. You don't need to aim in airsoft, you use your BBs to adjust your trajectory. You need to fire about 5 BBs to get something similar to one real steel shot. Accurizing airsoft guns is possible, but the gap between an accurized airsoft guns with a regular airsoft gun is not proportional with the gap between a semiauto-rifle and a bolt action rifle.

5. A big surge of 15 year olds kids have been asking me about "what's the best sniper" (they really mean sniper rifle) and I tell them airsoft sniping is virtually non-existent because the limitations of a BB. They won't listen.

6. These mallninja kids seem to want to be snipers because of movies like Saving Private Ryan, Jarhead, etc. and of course video games and the fact that they just went out and bought their first ghillie suit and neglecting the concealment+total lack movement of for days or weeks.

7. The majority of airsofters have this superiority complex that their "sport" is inherently more superior than paintball because the toys guns look "real" and they use "tactics" and they are more "honorable" because they call their own hits because BB don't leave paint stain. These airsofters are what we usually refer to as "dumbasses". They think that all paintball is speedball, but they also fail the realize that they sometimes "speedsoft" too (speedsoft the airsoft version of speedball). They can be seen arguing with paintballers like METS fans arguing with YANKEES fans. The smart people realize that both paintball and airsoft are basically the same crap different packaging.

8. The only realism aspect of airsoft I have managed to take advantage of is muscle memory operation of certain guns and the weight. Airsoft gas pistols are probably the closest thing to real firearms. They fit my pouches and tacticool nylon!.:D
The range is crap so ALL airsoft is close quarter.

9. I have notice a few airsofters going out and buying stripped lowers and refering to it as "M4s", which makes me chuckle all the time. They look at me funny when I say "AR variant".

10. Utilizing BB lag to dodge BBs (basically watching the BB fly at you and steping to the side to dodge them) is a bad habit but I use it sometimes to mock the other side.:p

11. I'd say 50% of airsofters are very anti non-masculine elements. They will sneer at girls who airsoft. They are uncomfortable when I joke about bring a Hello Kitty loadout onto the field (pink BDUs+pink furniture on an AR variant).
Basically, 50% of airsofters are compensating for their lack of "masculinity" by acting Gung Ho about everything.

12. Finding a good team to airsoft with is the key to having fun in this "sport".

13. To enhance the "realism" of airsoft, one should concentrate in ONLY one weapons platform to build one's gear around it.

14. I have a theory that airsoft MIGHT build a bad set of habits that will later ruin your law enforcement/military career.

15. AVOID airsofters who wear military unit/branch patches, ribbons or any other sort of rank indicators and salute each other, assigns rank in their team, calls each other by call sign all the time, buys gear based on pictures they see on the internet RATHER than testing out that piece of gear first, uses the word "tactical" in a serious manner, proudly posts A LOT of pictures of themselves in full gear pointing the gun at the camera trying to look threatening, who refuses to read anything more than 2 paragraphs long, and uses winding-high capacity magazines because they are too lazy to reload.

16. I will always keep in mind that i'm a grown man playing cowboys and indians with expensive toy guns:cool: , not a soldier or operator in some clandestine operation.

17. reading Lightfighter forums is fun, enlightening, and can greatly supplement your weekend BB fights.:) forcing you to start engineering your tacticool nylon into a chimera loadout full of duct tape, paracord, webbing, tri-glides, velcro, and buckles.

18. When you find that 5% of airsofters who are military/LE, your world is suddenly brighter and your wallet seems lighter.
They are nice people who are patient and will answer all your questions, and laugh at your silly questions.

boosterboy
05-07-2006, 12:10 AM
OP: Irene or Lion claws?:D Btw, been to the fort ord games? Very target rich environment.


A lot of airsofters are very active real gun shooters and collectors. Airsoft is a great way to train safety such as muzzle and trigger finger discipline. I try to teach the newer younger generation of airsofter to keep their finger off the trigger until they are ready to fire. Makes me happy they know this stuff when they get the chance to fire a real gun.

Oh and trust me, a LOT of us know about the off-list situation.

Thanks for educating our youth, I really do believe airsoft guns are like training wheels for teenagers who are interested in firearms.

PS.

Are you coming to the May 20th game at Ft. Ord?

It's my team's last tune up game before LC5.

fatass
05-07-2006, 2:19 AM
Thanks for educating our youth, I really do believe airsoft guns are like training wheels for teenagers who are interested in firearms.

PS.

Are you coming to the May 20th game at Ft. Ord?

It's my team's last tune up game before LC5.

Booster, can you give me more info about the game on May 20th at Ft. Ord? I've been out of the airsoft scene for a few years and don't know what groups are organizing what these days.

Thanks!

RyanTSG
05-07-2006, 9:49 AM
Ive Been to LC 3 and 4, I can't make 5 due to graduation, hopefully I'll make Irene this year if they get the ARMY base again.

Yea I have been to Ord Games, You would know me if you saw me, I hang out with the staff for CQB challenge games.

boosterboy
05-07-2006, 10:22 AM
Booster, can you give me more info about the game on May 20th at Ft. Ord? I've been out of the airsoft scene for a few years and don't know what groups are organizing what these days.

Thanks!

That is the briefing of the scenario

http://www.cqbchallenge.com/html/event.php?id=3



And of course, rules and regulations

http://www.cqbchallenge.com/html/rules_and_regulations.html

WhiteGT
05-07-2006, 10:30 AM
Booster boy, Im not attednign the may20th game. Only reason is the guys I always roll down with dont get saturdays off. So whenever there is a game on a sunday i go.


RyanTSG, you know Sean and Mickey form AEX?

Jedi
05-07-2006, 2:23 PM
Originally posted by: WhiteGT
RyanTSG, you know Sean and Mickey form AEX?


Doesn't everyone know Sean? Most people know Mickey... but who knows Andrew?

RyanTSG
05-07-2006, 3:11 PM
Yea I know all of them. I was a gun tech over the summer last summer, but I only met andrew when I was at LC4, unfortunatetly I know Mickey all to well.

I have been busy the last few months with school, but once that is over I can start playing once again, and get all of the parts for my self loading 223's to boot.


Ryan

Clodbuster
05-09-2006, 11:58 AM
So in short, only LE and military personnel are worthy of playing airsoft. That's great.


Clod

Well, I've playing airsoft for about 5 months, and all I

blacklisted
05-09-2006, 12:35 PM
So in short, only LE and military personnel are worthy of playing airsoft. That's great.


Clod

I don't think so, because he is not LE or Military.

joel1316
05-10-2006, 7:23 AM
We should get a Calguns group out to Ord one day :)

rocketboy
05-10-2006, 12:43 PM
Look at the growing popularity of Airsoft... many of these people will end up crossing over, and end up buying firearms.

Overall, it will make Assault Weapons less politically evil. It will 'wow' the kids, and they'll want their Airsoft guns, and since they're toys, many parents will tolerate this, or give in to their kids based on the liberal 'let the kids do whatever they want'... they'll grow accustomed to seeing them. Learning function, safety and tactical training... it will eventually bring about the urge to own the real thing, and then when they get jobs, have children, run for office, etc... they won't have the stigma of the 'evil black guns of wars' that many of the children of the 60's and 70's who are in office now believe...

I could write more, and delve into the psychological ramifications of this growing acceptability of this safer, modern and realistic BB gun, but it seems pretty apparent to me working in the business and seeing how many are crossing over, many of whom have jumped onboard with their first firearm being an off-list lower, fueling the 'lower craze' a great deal.

Anyone else have any thoughts about this? Do you see the long term acceptability of AWs changing in this state? The storm isn't over, that's for sure, but are clear skies ahead?

Maybe, I was in a surplus store and a couple teens around 18 or 19 were checking out some airsoft M4s, and I said "I remember when you could actually buy the real deal." They both looked at me like I was nuts and then their response was "Why would you want one." Don't put too much faith in the younger generations they have been too liberalized.

WhiteGT
05-11-2006, 12:00 AM
I know MANY airsofter that have zero interest in real guns. Dont know why, they just prefer toys.

Then there are ones like me, putting all my money into both real and fake. I'll sell an airsoft gun for a real one, but not the other way around.:eek:

Clodbuster
05-11-2006, 11:26 AM
Even though we live in California, real guns are quite expensive to keep and enjoy.
And with the choices of real steel available in CA, which would you choose if you were looking for a military styled gun to shoot.

Clod

I know MANY airsofter that have zero interest in real guns. Dont know why, they just prefer toys.

Then there are ones like me, putting all my money into both real and fake. I'll sell an airsoft gun for a real one, but not the other way around.:eek:

boosterboy
05-12-2006, 5:32 PM
I'm not LE or Military,


I'm an aspiring mall ninja playing cowboys and indians with expensive toys.:p

Clodbuster
05-14-2006, 6:56 PM
Ahhh... you're part of the 95% of airsofters that you mentioned we should be avoiding.

Clod


I'm not LE or Military,


I'm an aspiring mall ninja playing cowboys and indians with expensive toys.:p

ts
05-15-2006, 3:38 PM
its funny, when searching for gun info online - you find more about airsoft then you do about the real gun.

Turbinator
05-15-2006, 3:46 PM
its funny, when searching for gun info online - you find more about airsoft then you do about the real gun.

Hey, I've noticed that too. Really annoying.

Turby

boosterboy
06-22-2006, 2:53 AM
We should get a Calguns group out to Ord one day :)

That would be awesome. it's like going to the circus.

boosterboy
06-22-2006, 3:19 AM
So in short, only LE and military personnel are worthy of playing airsoft. That's great.


Clod



My mistake. I didn't mean to say that.

Airsoft and firearms should be reserved for people with good judgement who live in reality and has the ocasional fantasy and likes to joke about zombie outbreaks.:D

Maddog5150
06-22-2006, 3:39 AM
I find it airsoft both interesting and tarded at the same time.
All the time in my shop I have kids calling up asking about all the fun stuff we got taken away from us. Sometimes they misprenounce the brands so bad I know where they are comming from (counterstrike). After getting the same call three days in a row I get fed up and tell them, "look kid, what you see in the video games or in the airsoft store you cant have. No styers, no full autos, no SAWs." Always makes me chuckle.

We have this airsoft nazi who comes in and just now started into real guns which is great but every time he goes on and rants for sometimes over an hour on why airsoft is better than the real deal. When he hears me talking to customers about Sim training he quickly raises his hand like a kid in school and starts instantly talking about how airsoft is better for training. Funny part is he refuses to be educated on the subject and will still carry on who makes the best airsoft gun and why is better than any other training.

Guys who play come in and claim, "I have over two grand in my gun." How can you put two grand in a fricken toy!!!

Then there are the wannabe macho guys who claim they dont need protective gear and let the bbs hit their bare skin showing the scars that are litterally all over tier arms and neck.

So from what Ive seen (Im sure there are some level headed people out there who play airsoft) is that these guys are ignorant (refuse to learn anything else), counterstrike players who look like they shoot heroine (the guy is reeeeeeeeally twitchy) and have way too much money to spend. Do you want them at the range next to you and your friends shooting?

p.s. I do have an exact replica of the gun I use for comps and training but like the other guy said, its in the safe, it shoots a projectile and it IS a firearm.

Sydwaiz
06-22-2006, 1:03 PM
[rant on]I just wish all you damn airsofters would mind your BBs. Pick them up damnit or don't shoot them where you shouldn't! I'm tired of seeing them everywhere I go, desert, forest, in the street when I'm running around my neighborhood, and in the parking lot at the "real" shooting range! WTF? These things aren't biodegradable. I'm sure they are already washing up on beaches too.[rant off]

five.five-six
06-22-2006, 1:20 PM
I know MANY airsofter that have zero interest in real guns. Dont know why, they just prefer toys.

Then there are ones like me, putting all my money into both real and fake. I'll sell an airsoft gun for a real one, but not the other way around.:eek:


airsot has one advantage.. you can shoot your friends with one

Neil McCauley
06-22-2006, 2:01 PM
One of my tenants shot up the living room which was finished in rich wood and left dents all over it and even cracked one of the fine glasswork pieces in the cabinets. I don't think I ever had a hatred for airsofters since that moment but they were just stupid kids. Don't have the heart to sand down the damage yet, mabye someday.

boosterboy
06-22-2006, 11:31 PM
From my personal observation of airsofters, 6 months of playing+including Lion Claws 5, and thousands of hours of reading forums, I think 80% of airsofters of all ages are dislusional people people who make poor choices.


What do you guys think that percentage is for firearms owners.

Please, don't take it the wrong way, I'm just trying to see if airsofters are dumber, or the amount of idiots in airsoft is directly proportional to the amount of morons in the world.

ohsmily
06-22-2006, 11:42 PM
From my personal observation of airsofters, 6 months of playing+including Lion Claws 5, and thousands of hours of reading forums, I think 80% of airsofters of all ages are dislusional people people who make poor choices.


What do you guys think that percentage is for firearms owners.

Please, don't take it the wrong way, I'm just trying to see if airsofters are dumber, or the amount of idiots in airsoft is directly proportional to the amount of morons in the world.

"Dislusional people people"....NICE....I think you might be a delusional person person.

I don't do airsoft, but I hardly think that you are person to be speaking for "enlightened" gun owners. :rolleyes:

boosterboy
06-22-2006, 11:46 PM
"Dislusional people people"....NICE....I think you might be a delusional person person.

I don't do airsoft, but I hardly think that you are person to be speaking for "enlightened" gun owners. :rolleyes:

I never said I was speaking on behalf of the gun owning world.

EDIT:

Allow me to rephrase, 80% of airsofters are dilusional about firearms and combat.

tpliquid1
06-23-2006, 5:33 PM
i lve my airsoft, shoot my buddies with it everytime they come over to my house

my SBR:
http://www.viptrim.com/newstuff/DSC03167.JPG

Spiggy
06-29-2006, 10:17 PM
the 80% of dissolusioned peoples are refered to as "paintsofters"

Merely paintballers with airsoft guns who think they're "T2h ub3r l337"


the other 20% though... I think I fit under that category... mainly the small niche that collects guns and will buy airsoft replicas of guns that are out of the legal and fiscal price ranges... Like G36's

onegtalon
10-01-2011, 2:12 AM
I bought an airsoft HK USP GBB to train myself in my garage when I started to get back into shooting my real firearm. (I took a really long time off from shooting)

I've seen private security guys come into AEX to look into options for their training classes..

Cali law may decide that every city decides if it is unlawful to own an Airsoft (still pending, AEX website gas the latest updates). Hawaii is trying to make then illegal cause the kids here are shooting random people (I grew up here, I'm not surprised).

I would hate for them to ban AIrsoft but with these morons running around causing problems they may have to.... Or put more restrictions on them... either way it would suck for some folks...

Sent from my iPhone...


Sent from my iPhone...

Scratch705
10-01-2011, 2:24 AM
i use mine to practice muscle memory on how to draw, aim, clear malfunctions, etc stuff that all ranges don't let you do unless you are "certified".

oh i also dual wield for fun at home and pretend i'm a badass operator. ;)

Merc1138
10-01-2011, 2:33 AM
Holy 5 year old zombie thread batman!

GettoPhilosopher
10-01-2011, 2:51 AM
Look at the growing popularity of Airsoft... many of these people will end up crossing over, and end up buying firearms.

Overall, it will make Assault Weapons less politically evil. It will 'wow' the kids, and they'll want their Airsoft guns, and since they're toys, many parents will tolerate this, or give in to their kids based on the liberal 'let the kids do whatever they want'... they'll grow accustomed to seeing them. Learning function, safety and tactical training... it will eventually bring about the urge to own the real thing, and then when they get jobs, have children, run for office, etc... they won't have the stigma of the 'evil black guns of wars' that many of the children of the 60's and 70's who are in office now believe...

I could write more, and delve into the psychological ramifications of this growing acceptability of this safer, modern and realistic BB gun, but it seems pretty apparent to me working in the business and seeing how many are crossing over, many of whom have jumped onboard with their first firearm being an off-list lower, fueling the 'lower craze' a great deal.

Anyone else have any thoughts about this? Do you see the long term acceptability of AWs changing in this state? The storm isn't over, that's for sure, but are clear skies ahead?

I was already Pro-2A when I was playing with airsoft back in college, but it did open my eyes to some things. It's weird to go from building whatever the hell kind of gun you want (whatever kind of stock, pistol grip, foregrip, however long of a barrel, whatever kind of fake muzzle device or fake can, etc) with *real* high-cap magazines (I never carried less than 300rd mags, I often carried a 5,000 round box mag), fully auto, etc, and then all the sudden be like "Oh, if I slap a Magpul RVG on this semi-auto featureless rifle, it's a felony".

It makes all these laws look so unbelievably stupid. Wait, so a .50BMG with a 24" barrel is fine, but a .22 with a 10" barrel is an EVIL FEDERAL FELONY? That doesn't make sense....

m98
10-01-2011, 3:13 AM
I know MANY airsofter that have zero interest in real guns. Dont know why, they just prefer toys.

Then there are ones like me, putting all my money into both real and fake. I'll sell an airsoft gun for a real one, but not the other way around.:eek:


I've got a buddy who is the Same Exact way. Spends lotsa of denero on airsoft and cod/mw video games. He doesnt own a single firearm. He says that if the time comes when he needs real steel, he's just gonna swing by my place. I just nod and laugh and say yeah right, with your weapons handling skills, you can carry my gamo .177.

m98
10-01-2011, 3:20 AM
the 80% of dissolusioned peoples are refered to as "paintsofters"

Merely paintballers with airsoft guns who think they're "T2h ub3r l337"


the other 20% though... I think I fit under that category... mainly the small niche that collects guns and will buy airsoft replicas of guns that are out of the legal and fiscal price ranges... Like G36's

Lol..... Whats that t2h code? Or otherwise referred to cod/mw warriors. Hand them the real steel and watch them shake in fear and goof like a nooob.

m98
10-01-2011, 3:29 AM
Maybe, I was in a surplus store and a couple teens around 18 or 19 were checking out some airsoft M4s, and I said "I remember when you could actually buy the real deal." They both looked at me like I was nuts and then their response was "Why would you want one." Don't put too much faith in the younger generations they have been too liberalized.

Yep, we are Heavily Out numbered. There are just wayyyy too many Liberal Sheeps in this country especially in the PRK.

Mr.1904
10-01-2011, 5:23 PM
Most parents who buy their kids airsoft guns only do it because they're harmless and they're strictly toys.

Even with them being toys they are still terrified of them because they look so real.

I know. Because i sell them.

Definitely not the key to anything besides the video game generation getting out and role playing in real life. But hey, at least they're getting outside. Right?