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misterjake
08-09-2010, 6:57 PM
My dad has a WWII Japanese rifle that was given to him many moons ago. He wants to give it to me.

Can he just send it to me and I fill out the ATF form showing I now own the rifle?

Or are there many more loopholes to jump?

The Director
08-09-2010, 7:22 PM
There is no registration requirement on non assault weapon rifles and no transfer of such is required from father to son.

pullnshoot25
08-09-2010, 7:45 PM
Grab it and have a nice day. Don't worry about it :)

Cokebottle
08-09-2010, 8:18 PM
+1

Two things going for you...

1 - Intrafamilial in-state transfer of long guns is "he gives it to you, enjoy it"

2 - WWII era Japanese rifle would be a C&R... it's "cash and carry" for anyone, no paperwork needed unless the buyer/seller is an 03FFL, then it only needs to be logged into their bound book.


So even if he's a step-father, father in-law, favorite uncle, or a family friend that you call "dad", he can still simply give it to you as if it were a BB gun.

Mssr. Eleganté
08-09-2010, 8:32 PM
Can he just send it to me and I fill out the ATF form showing I now own the rifle?

If your father is a resident of another State then he will have to transfer the rifle to you through an FFL.

G-forceJunkie
08-09-2010, 11:18 PM
Assuming you both live in California it goes something like this:

Dad: hand you the rifle
You: Thanks dad!

misterjake
08-10-2010, 12:06 AM
He lives in another state.

Quiet
08-10-2010, 12:25 AM
He lives in another state.

Then he needs to ship the rifle to a CA FFL dealer.
You will then need to 4473/DROS it and wait 10 days.

If you have a 03-FFL, he can ship it direct to you and you just have to log it in your bound book.

It needs to be shipped to a CA FFL dealer, because FEDERAL LAWS prohibits the transfer of firearms between residents of different states unless the transfer is done through a FFL dealer in the recipiant's state of residence.
There is no intra-familial gift exemption to the Federal laws.
There is an inheritance/bequest exemption to the Federal laws, but it requires that your father be dead.

Kali-Jax
08-10-2010, 8:32 AM
What if dad makes a road trip?

Ed_Hazard
08-10-2010, 8:38 AM
What if dad makes a road trip?

If dad hand delivers the rifle then son says Thank you and all is well.

pullnshoot25
08-10-2010, 8:44 AM
This topic is taking too long, aaagg!

Ed_Hazard
08-10-2010, 8:51 AM
This topic is taking too long, aaagg!

Some people just want to really be sure.:p

misterjake
08-10-2010, 9:18 AM
He's flying to see me in October. So, if he brings it on the plane (checked in of course) then he can give it to me, no paperwork?!?!?!

Mssr. Eleganté
08-10-2010, 11:06 AM
He's flying to see me in October. So, if he brings it on the plane (checked in of course) then he can give it to me, no paperwork?!?!?!

No! He can't just give you the rifle. As Quiet already mentioned, Federal law prohibits the transfer of firearms between residents of two different States unless the transfer goes through an FFL.

The reason this thread is so long is because some posters are chiming in, advising the OP's father to commit a Federal felony.



If dad hand delivers the rifle then son says Thank you and all is well.

All is not well...

18 U.S.C. § 922: UNLAWFUL ACTS

(a) It shall be unlawful -

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to
transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to
any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the
transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not
reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business
entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in
which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall
not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a
firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an
acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who
is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of
the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a
firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting
purposes;

misterjake
08-10-2010, 5:00 PM
No! He can't just give you the rifle. As Quiet already mentioned, Federal law prohibits the transfer of firearms between residents of two different States unless the transfer goes through an FFL.

The reason this thread is so long is because some posters are chiming in, advising the OP's father to commit a Federal felony.





All is not well...

Okay, no big deal, I'll just have him send it to my local FFL. I don't think they'll charge too much for it.

It's a soldier brought Japanese Arisaka rifle, no import marks :)

Greg-Dawg
08-10-2010, 6:13 PM
Take pictures of it!

Does it have an untarnish chrysanthemum symbol on it?

cbn620
08-10-2010, 6:40 PM
Love those Arisakas. Check the 'mum on it. Also be sure the firing pin is still in there. Some of them were disarmed.

Cokebottle
08-10-2010, 7:35 PM
No! He can't just give you the rifle. As Quiet already mentioned, Federal law prohibits the transfer of firearms between residents of two different States unless the transfer goes through an FFL.
To save on the FFL transfer fees, would it be legal for his father to import it, and then execute a PPT at a local FFL ($35 instead of $75+), or is PPT only valid between two California residents for C&R?

It seems it would be legal, since the Feds only require than an FFL be involved (and that the transfer follow the laws of both states... with could be the fly in the ointment).

ke6guj
08-10-2010, 7:42 PM
To save on the FFL transfer fees, would it be legal for his father to import it, and then execute a PPT at a local FFL ($35 instead of $75+), or is PPT only valid between two California residents for C&R?

It seems it would be legal, since the Feds only require than an FFL be involved (and that the transfer follow the laws of both states... with could be the fly in the ointment).

CADOJ considers a PPT transfer to be a transfer done between two CA-residents, who both go to the same FFL to do the transfer. If the seller is not a CA resident, it is not a PPT. If the seller has to ship the firearm to the dealer, it isn't a PPT. If it doesn't fall under CADOJ's definition of a PPT, then the $35 maximum does not apply.

Cokebottle
08-10-2010, 7:48 PM
CADOJ considers a PPT transfer to be a transfer done between two CA-residents, who both go to the same FFL to do the transfer. If the seller is not a CA resident, it is not a PPT. If the seller has to ship the firearm to the dealer, it isn't a PPT. If it doesn't fall under CADOJ's definition of a PPT, then the $35 maximum does not apply.
Unless the FFL doesn't understand the law and assumes he's limited to $35 ;)

misterjake
08-10-2010, 8:09 PM
Take pictures of it!

Does it have an untarnish chrysanthemum symbol on it?

Yes.

dantodd
08-10-2010, 9:13 PM
To save on the FFL transfer fees, would it be legal for his father to import it, and then execute a PPT at a local FFL ($35 instead of $75+), or is PPT only valid between two California residents for C&R?

It seems it would be legal, since the Feds only require than an FFL be involved (and that the transfer follow the laws of both states... with could be the fly in the ointment).

Such a transaction would not violate any California Statute. Unfortunately the DROS software (last I heard) doesn't allow for any ID other than CA so you would be unable to perform the PPT and you'd have to do a regular transfer which is not price capped.

pullnshoot25
08-10-2010, 9:30 PM
I cannot believe that one has to go through all this **** just for an old rifle. Holy hell.

Cokebottle
08-10-2010, 10:19 PM
I cannot believe that one has to go through all this **** just for an old rifle. Holy hell.
I know it.

Actually, given that an 03FFL only takes about 3-4 weeks to get, and it's only $33 for 3 years, it would be cheaper for the OP to simply apply for the 03, have dad ship the rifle to him, he logs it into his book, then in 3 years, let the 03 expire and shred the bound book.


Then again... once he has the 03FFL, there's always the potential for Mosin Fever :D

Seesm
08-11-2010, 1:44 AM
If your Dad moved to California he could hand it to you... :)

Vox
08-11-2010, 12:49 PM
i'm still waiting for pics.. I love old guns.

misterjake
08-11-2010, 1:11 PM
i'm still waiting for pics.. I love old guns.

I'm going to go the C&R 03 route. :)

It'll be a few months. :)

BluNorthern
08-11-2010, 1:36 PM
I cannot believe that one has to go through all this **** just for an old rifle. Holy hell.
This is so pathetic it's embarrassing.

Fate
08-11-2010, 5:11 PM
I cannot believe that one has to go through all this **** just for an old rifle. Holy hell.

That's funny, spoken by one who often jumps through serious hoops to UOC. All these bs laws need to fall.

Sudaev
08-11-2010, 6:37 PM
You may want to have it checked by a gunsmith. My friend's dad brought back a 7.7 Japanese rifle from one of the islands, and it sat in the closet for decades. We decided to shoot it in the mid-80s, but my friend took it to a gunsmith to inspect it first. Sure enough, the thing was booby-trapped with (if I recall correctly) some sort of explosive in the stock.

Cokebottle
08-11-2010, 6:41 PM
I'm going to go the C&R 03 route. :)

It'll be a few months. :)
Plenty of time.

Here's an XLS file on my bound book pages.
This file prints 20 pages, 4 entries per page, and is formatted to print landscape on 8.5x17 legal paper.

I printed it on 30lb bond. Had to order the notebook from Staples online... they don't have them in the store.

http://personal.linkline.com/rlockyer/boundbooktemplate.xls

misterjake
08-11-2010, 6:50 PM
You may want to have it checked by a gunsmith. My friend's dad brought back a 7.7 Japanese rifle from one of the islands, and it sat in the closet for decades. We decided to shoot it in the mid-80s, but my friend took it to a gunsmith to inspect it first. Sure enough, the thing was booby-trapped with (if I recall correctly) some sort of explosive in the stock.

Wow, this was picked up after the war on the way out, nothing is scratched out though. :)

Lucky me.

pullnshoot25
08-11-2010, 7:31 PM
That's funny, spoken by one who often jumps through serious hoops to UOC. All these bs laws need to fall.

Hehe, that is true. Even I tire though of being right and being a square.

Fate
08-11-2010, 8:50 PM
You may want to have it checked by a gunsmith. My friend's dad brought back a 7.7 Japanese rifle from one of the islands, and it sat in the closet for decades. We decided to shoot it in the mid-80s, but my friend took it to a gunsmith to inspect it first. Sure enough, the thing was booby-trapped with (if I recall correctly) some sort of explosive in the stock.

There have been captured rifles with holes drilled in the barrel or receiver below the wood. Almost to depth of penetrating, but not quite. End result is a KABOOM should you fire it. Definitely pull it out of the stock and look at it before you shoot it.