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ivangrozny2009
08-09-2010, 10:43 AM
Disclaimer: I am not creating this as a political attack or something, I just want to hear some honest thoughts from fellow gun owners about this.

So yesterday I received an application for the NRA in the mail, which means that my gun ownership is now common knowledge (probably always was). I am conflicted about this because I support the 2nd amendment obviously, but I the rest of what the NRA is famous for doesn't jive with me.

I am an atheist, a humanist and a feminist that believes responsible adults should be able to smoke weed, marry the one they love or own firearms without being demonized or deemed a criminal. However, the NRA is not exactly famous for their tolerance of gay/women/racial rights, which makes me not want to support them no matter how many guns I own (3 for the record).

Are there any like-minded gun owners like me out there that is an NRA member? Do you believe the NRA is just getting a bad rap maybe?

Or is there a less...emotional...gun rights group out there for people who just want to defend the 2nd amendment but not infringe on the other amendments that defend others rights as well?

Again, you can believe what you like in your day-to-day life, I just want to know if the NRA is really the only game in town for us....

Paladin
08-09-2010, 10:58 AM
First off, welcome to CGN and the 2nd A RKBA subforum.

Second, the NRA sticks strictly to 2nd A issues. This question has been hashed out quite a bit if you go thru the history of this subforum (sorry, don't have time to track threads down).

Third, Bill Wiese and Gene Hoffman are the "alpha dogs" around here w/the most expertise (with Gray Peterson closing in on them ;)) and I'm sure they'll chip in to give your their opinion re. the NRA and whether they get involved with other "conservative cultural" issues.

Lastly, the NRA has been getting trashed over the past month or two because many suspect they will support Harry Reid (D-NV) because he has voted pro-RKBA, but is anti-conservative re many issues. You should be able to find threads dealing w/that particular issue in this subforum over the past month.

Again, "Welcome!" from a Bible-believing, conservative Christian who believes all law-abiding citizens have the right to keep and bear arms to defend innocent lives.

Uriah02
08-09-2010, 11:03 AM
I would concur, being what many would describe a strong conservative independent I strongly disagree with the NRA's support of Harry Reid over Sharon Angle. However, if 2nd A was my sole voting issue I can easily understand why you'd want the support (even though he's received multiple bad grades in previous years) of a long sitting senator vs a junior senator that is more consistently a RKBA supporter.

Sutcliffe
08-09-2010, 11:03 AM
Most pro gun control types will vehemently deny this fact, but that's pretty much all it does. Pretty good at fundraising and sticking with the older crowd on capitol hill, but without them I doubt we'd be much different than the United Kingdom.

BOFH
08-09-2010, 11:03 AM
I also dont agree with the opinions of many NRA members but the NRA gets my support since they fight the good fight for all gun owners. They are not perfect but IMO every gun owner should support the NRA.

Out of curiosity, what specifically makes you say that the NRA has been intolerant of "gay/women/racial rights"?

ZombieTactics
08-09-2010, 11:10 AM
... I am an atheist, a humanist and a feminist that believes responsible adults should be able to smoke weed, marry the one they love or own firearms without being demonized or deemed a criminal. I actually think this would make you more of a hardcore libertarian. Most atheist, humanist and feminist organizations I have encountered are usually aligned with the anti-2A crowd.

However, the NRA is not exactly famous for their tolerance of gay/women/racial rights, which makes me not want to support them no matter how many guns I own (3 for the record). I understand the sentiment, as most (not all) of the more vocal NRA types tend to be conservative politically. I don't know of any position one way or the other where the NRA as an organization has staked out a view on gay/lesbian issues, feminism or racial politics. As a fairly right-leaning libertarian, I'd be concerned if the NRA ever started involving themselves in these issues, and it would probably be enough for me to cancel my membership even if they took positions I liked. I am an NRA member over RKBA and nothing else.

Again, you can believe what you like in your day-to-day life, I just want to know if the NRA is really the only game in town for us.... I think the NRA is "OK" as a national organization, and you shouldn't hesitate to join.

Glock22Fan
08-09-2010, 11:12 AM
However, the NRA is not exactly famous for their tolerance of gay/women/racial rights,
The way you put this is somewhat obscuring. Do you mean that they are famous for their lack of tolerance? If so, I have to say I have seen absolutely no evidence of this.

If you mean that they should demonstrate their tolerance in a more active way, I have to ask why? It is not the NRA's job to specifically promote tolerance on these subjects, which have little or nothing to do with the Second Amendment, excepting in that the Second applies to everyone, including people who are in one of the classes gay/women/ racial minority.

Indeed, we have a number of people in those classes on this forum. I have never heard from them that they feel the NRA is disrespectful of them.

Why do you have this problem?

Steyrlp10
08-09-2010, 11:20 AM
To the OP:

I'm an NRA Life Member and female. I'm also non-white, but never thought that should matter one way or another since I see myself as a regular person who believes that law-abiding individuals should have the right to bear arms. I've been competing for a number of years and have never experienced any type of discrimination from this organization.

Sure, the majority of NRA members are men, but the same could be said of the bass anglers I fish with.

berto
08-09-2010, 11:25 AM
Please join.

NRA is focused on 2A, other issues are irrelevant, and frankly, I haven't seen NRA take a stance on the non-2A issues you're concerned about. Don't confuse statements by individual members with policy stances taken by the organization. How better to smash the stereotype of who an NRA member is and what he believes than by joining?

We need you in the fight.

The Duke
08-09-2010, 11:55 AM
Please join.

NRA is focused on 2A, other issues are irrelevant, and frankly, I haven't seen NRA take a stance on the non-2A issues you're concerned about. Don't confuse statements by individual members with policy stances taken by the organization. How better to smash the stereotype of who an NRA member is and what he believes than by joining?

We need you in the fight.

THat's a dangerous comment berto. Sad that the NRA climbed into bed with Harry Reid and has become significantly anti 1A which IS RELEVANT because without it, you would lose your right to speak out in favor of 2A.

The NRA was willing to sign away all our rights to freedom of speech and help keep a certified liberal in office just to keep their own checks rolling in and to bolster their own images and jobs...at the expense of our liberty. My NRA membership was cancelled.

Check out gun owners of california. They've got a little bit more of a moral compass.

Sutcliffe
08-09-2010, 11:56 AM
SAF, JPFO, and a few others I can't remember.
Any of those are preferable to not supporting gun rights based on hatred for the NRA.
The media and the left continues to portray the average NRA member as White, uneducated, racist, beer guzzling rednecks.
It's pretty widespread so you have to give them credit.

berto
08-09-2010, 12:08 PM
THat's a dangerous comment berto. Sad that the NRA climbed into bed with Harry Reid and has become significantly anti 1A which IS RELEVANT because without it, you would lose your right to speak out in favor of 2A.

The NRA was willing to sign away all our rights to freedom of speech and help keep a certified liberal in office just to keep their own checks rolling in and to bolster their own images and jobs...at the expense of our liberty. My NRA membership was cancelled.

Check out gun owners of california. They've got a little bit more of a moral compass.

NRA supports Harry Reid because he carries their water in the Senate. How is NRA protecting their membership info anti-1A? This has been hashed out here repeatedly.

As to GOC, what exactly have they accomplished in CA? And by accomplished I mean positive accomplishments. Stepping on their johnson and screwing the pooch doesn't count.

The Duke
08-09-2010, 12:14 PM
NRA supports Harry Reid because he carries their water in the Senate. How is NRA protecting their membership info anti-1A? This has been hashed out here repeatedly.

As to GOC, what exactly have they accomplished in CA? And by accomplished I mean positive accomplishments. Stepping on their johnson and screwing the pooch doesn't count.

They've got principles and principled leadership. That is and should always be the foundation. If you do not see the value in that, then all I can say is that I hope you have not reproduced and are not involved in raising our next generation of Americans.

bwiese
08-09-2010, 12:27 PM
They've got principles and principled leadership. That is and should always be the foundation. If you do not see the value in that, then all I can say is that I hope you have not reproduced and are not involved in raising our next generation of Americans.

Call me when they've done anything useful, sonny.

ivangrozny2009
08-09-2010, 12:32 PM
I actually think this would make you more of a hardcore libertarian. Most atheist, humanist and feminist organizations I have encountered are usually aligned with the anti-2A crowd.

I understand the sentiment, as most (not all) of the more vocal NRA types tend to be conservative politically. I don't know of any position one way or the other where the NRA as an organization has staked out a view on gay/lesbian issues, feminism or racial politics. As a fairly right-leaning libertarian, I'd be concerned if the NRA ever started involving themselves in these issues, and it would probably be enough for me to cancel my membership even if they took positions I liked. I am an NRA member over RKBA and nothing else.

I think the NRA is "OK" as a national organization, and you shouldn't hesitate to join.

Wow, this is great, thanks to everyone for giving me some insights on this! Hardcore libertarian? I suppose that works, I never bothered to categorize myself politically because I never feel like I fit in anywhere. :P

I think my bias was formed based on stereotype, which is bad I know, painting in a broad brush is something I try not to do. This time it was mostly lack of research other than what my direct experience has been with individual members. I grew up in a small town and it seemed that the people who supported the NRA were bigots by their words/actions, which to me means that I don't want to be associated with them even by membership in the same group. I know, I know its not fair to most members, but that's where the bias came from.

I checked out http://www.gunownersca.com/ and it all sounded okay until the last line in their 'beliefs': "We believe words alone won't win. Time, manpower, money and prayer are needed as well. We recognize that God rules.and without His guidance, our efforts are all in vain."

So they are off the list as well. No offense to those guys either but I don't see why god would care if you can own guns or not. Other issues aside, I can't seem to find a separation of god and guns...except: http://www.keepandbeararms.com/about/mission.asp
They even have RKBA in the name hehe :P

Anyway, this has all been very helpful and informative...thanks again!

berto
08-09-2010, 12:43 PM
They've got principles and principled leadership. That is and should always be the foundation. If you do not see the value in that, then all I can say is that I hope you have not reproduced and are not involved in raising our next generation of Americans.

Great. Neat. Good for them.

What has the principled leadership with principles accomplished to protect or advance 2A rights in CA?

Why should anybody send their hard earned money to a group that doesn't do anything and may actually muck up the works?

I hope you're in the fight to win and not complacent with a "No compromise" circle jerk that has so far produced little more than a bunch of folks patting themselves on the back for refusing to compromise.

OleCuss
08-09-2010, 12:57 PM
To the OP (ivangrozny2009):

Please join the NRA and be active!

The NRA's mission is non-sectarian and it really is a civil rights organization with an extreme focus on the RKBA. As noted before the membership is probably mostly right-wing men but that doesn't mean that the organization is about bible-thumping males.

The more diverse the NRA becomes, the less likely they are to start drifting into the territory that Gun Owners of America occupies (not trying to knock GOA, but their effectiveness will forever be impaired by their lack of focus).

I would also agree that you really sound like a Libertarian to me. Welcome, from someone who is registered as one.

Another note, however? Even if we are not a Bible-thumping Christian, we owe an immense debt of gratitude to those who are. The bedrock of freedom in the U.S. (and for most of the world) is the Christian concept of the inherent equality of men and women before God. Without that concept we would have no freedom in this country. I know some would argue with that but history suggests they are wrong.

Maestro Pistolero
08-09-2010, 1:00 PM
I'm a Buddhist (non-theistic flavor), hard-core libertarian, hetero, pro-gay-rights, pro-gay-marriage, card carrying life member of the NRA. There is a time to pay attention to differences, and a time to unite over commonality. Welcome. We take all kinds here.

No organization is more effective, feared and revered than the NRA. That said, the Calguns Foundation and the Second Amendment Foundation have performed legislative and judicial acrobatics that should make Cirque Du Soleil turn green with envy.

Window_Seat
08-09-2010, 1:01 PM
The NRA is focused on keeping the 2nd preserved, and without them, the Katrina confiscation incident wouldn't have happened... Because totalitarian confiscation would have happened long before then. Double the membership of the NRA, and they will not just be a deterrent to confiscation.

The NRA is working on issues here in CA, and have made accomplishments, but because of the makeup of this Legislature and the way many people here vote (based on boobjobs and iPhones, not on preserving history and individual rights), they have to work incognito, and this is why you don't see NRA stickers all over pick-ups and SUVs.

I've been told that the best form of strategy is to strategize quietly, in private and then kill them with kindness. We have been doing that here, and the only time we get loud is when we are celebrating a victory, and that happens every so often.

Since you asked, if I were in your shoes, I would go for the life membership. I did, and I'm agnostic, believe in legalizing marijuana, and still don't regret it.

WELCOME, stick around & enjoy!

Erik.

radioburning
08-09-2010, 1:05 PM
I always hear about how the NRA is some sort of "evil empire" that is this pseudo far right-wing secret society oppressing minorities and non-christians, but nobody can ever tell me how they know that, or what first hand experience they've had that made them think that. Granted, in some of the editorial pieces in some of their publications, authors will make some Christian references here or there, but who am I to judge their personal beliefs?

The NRA is, by far, the largest and most powerful organization fighting to protect your gun rights and, especially in the last couple of years, they've been kicking butt and taking names. You should return the favor by joining.

unusedusername
08-09-2010, 1:06 PM
As far as I know, most members of the Pink Pistols (http://www.pinkpistols.org/) are also NRA members.

The NRA is not the perception that people have of it.

Glock22Fan
08-09-2010, 1:11 PM
They've got principles and principled leadership. That is and should always be the foundation. If you do not see the value in that, then all I can say is that I hope you have not reproduced and are not involved in raising our next generation of Americans.

Good show on the principled leadership, but until politicians see them as a large gorilla in the room, who cares? Even as a 400lb gorilla next to NRA's 800lb gorilla.

At present, the average politician would say "Who?"

How much good is that?

joedogboy
08-09-2010, 1:18 PM
I am conflicted about this because I support the 2nd amendment obviously, but I the rest of what the NRA is famous for doesn't jive with me.


Firearms safety doesn't "jive" with you?
Providing quality firearms training for LE, to make them safer and more effective doesn't "jive" with you?
Hunter safety doesn't "jive" with you?
Competitive shooting events don't "jive" with you?
Outreach that involves young people, women, minorities, and the disabled in shooting activities doesn't "jive" with you?
Refusing to be a victim doesn't "jive" with you?
Preserving our 2A and firearms history doesn't "jive" with you?
Providing insurance to cover the replacement cost of your guns, if they get stolen doesn't "jive" with you?
Being one of the oldest civil rights watchdog groups in America doesn't "jive" with you?

Other than legislative and legal battles over 2A issues, these are the things that the NRA is justly famous for.

There are those on the anti-gun side who do spread disinformation in an attempt to demonize the NRA, but that doesn't mean that anyone should listen to their lies.

nick
08-09-2010, 1:26 PM
When you're checking out the NRA, don't forget CGF, SAF, and the new CRPA. These 4 are probably the 4 organizations a Californian concerned about 2nd Amendment rights should support. The rest, including the "no-compromise" GOC, GOA, etc... Not so much.

When I was new to the game, the "no-compromise" part did have its appeal. Then I checked their record... It's not even a zero, it's negative. So, after much consideration, NRA, CGF, and SAF were the ones I chose to support. Aside from everything else, they're FOCUSED on 2nd Amendment, and they delvier. The new CRPA has several Calgunners on the board, and it seems to be coming around, so I chose to support them, as well.

I'm an atheist, mostly libertarian in my views (I have disagreements with many libertarians on foreign policy), I don't drink alcohol (including beer :p), and with 2 MS and 5 BS/BA degrees, I'm probably well enough educated. You'd be surprised at how many NRA members and gun owners in general don't fit the stereotype promoted by the shamelessly biased media. For that matter, you'd probably be surprised at how many of the people who do fit that stereotype are very decent people.

wildhawker
08-09-2010, 1:26 PM
They've got principles and principled leadership. That is and should always be the foundation. If you do not see the value in that, then all I can say is that I hope you have not reproduced and are not involved in raising our next generation of Americans.

The same principled leadership that tried to cut a deal on the Torrico version of AB962?

joedogboy
08-09-2010, 1:27 PM
I am a veteran of the U.S. Army and Air Force.
I am a disabled person.
I am a teacher.
I am of mixed heritage.
I am a son, a brother, and an uncle.
I am a voter.
I am a safe and responsible gun owner.
I am a Californian.

I am the NRA. You should be, too.

a1c
08-09-2010, 1:28 PM
I just joined, even though I consider myself socially liberal with strong libertarian leanings, and closer to the Democrats than the Republicans, although I long for the return of a GOP standing for fiscal responsibility and the defense of the interests of the middle class.

To be fair, a big part of the reason I joined (for a 1 year membership, which includes a $25 Bass Pro gift card (http://www.basspronraspecialoffer.com/) - the price of the membership) is because a local range requires NRA membership for access (for insurance reasons). As much as I enjoy frequenting informal ranges, there's nothing like a 200-yard rifle range. It's not like I can make a trip to Lake Pillsbury every week.

I however am no big fan of many NRA marketing campaigns and their scare tactics, nor do I support many of the very political speeches I've heard from some NRA reps, nor do I particularly like the incredible amount of money they spent on some things. But hey, I'm a member now, and I might as well make my voice heard. No reason for that R to stand for Republican.

ivangrozny2009
08-09-2010, 1:47 PM
Firearms safety doesn't "jive" with you?
Providing quality firearms training for LE, to make them safer and more effective doesn't "jive" with you?
Hunter safety doesn't "jive" with you?
Competitive shooting events don't "jive" with you?
Outreach that involves young people, women, minorities, and the disabled in shooting activities doesn't "jive" with you?
Refusing to be a victim doesn't "jive" with you?
Preserving our 2A and firearms history doesn't "jive" with you?
Providing insurance to cover the replacement cost of your guns, if they get stolen doesn't "jive" with you?
Being one of the oldest civil rights watchdog groups in America doesn't "jive" with you?

Other than legislative and legal battles over 2A issues, these are the things that the NRA is justly famous for.

There are those on the anti-gun side who do spread disinformation in an attempt to demonize the NRA, but that doesn't mean that anyone should listen to their lies.

Whoa whoa, chill joedog, I meant the issues NOT related to guns! Besides, I have already been set straight 100fold by all the fine members here about any and all misconceptions. I'll be joining up this week!

I appreciate all the responses, I am happy to see that actual members could assuage my fears about joining up and that like-minded members are out there!

OleCuss
08-09-2010, 1:54 PM
It's good to have you on board. Welcome.

majorcajones
08-09-2010, 2:38 PM
THat's a dangerous comment berto. Sad that the NRA climbed into bed with Harry Reid and has become significantly anti 1A which IS RELEVANT because without it, you would lose your right to speak out in favor of 2A.

The NRA was willing to sign away all our rights to freedom of speech and help keep a certified liberal in office just to keep their own checks rolling in and to bolster their own images and jobs...at the expense of our liberty. My NRA membership was cancelled.

Check out gun owners of california. They've got a little bit more of a moral compass.

to be nitpicky, isnt it the other way around? ie your 2nd amendment lets you keep your first amendment and so on........?

rysmithjr
08-09-2010, 2:56 PM
I am a basic NRA member, but whenever they call looking for more money (using the same sort of "the sky is falling!" scare tactics that Conservative Action Alerts and others use), I take the chance to remind them that when they continue to have idiot ex-governors and crying lying fearmongering tv hosts as key spokespeople at their national convention, they will never get any additional support from me.

Chester
08-09-2010, 2:58 PM
Nice read.

I'm actually aligned pretty much EXACTLY with what the OP has said and have shied away from the NRA for all the same reasons.

Might be checking out a membership for myself now. This post has some good timing for me. Suppose I can give them a year and see if supporting them further is worth it.

OleCuss
08-09-2010, 3:09 PM
A suggestion? It's even better if you join and get active.

To a certain extent an organization is a reflection of the members who show up at meetings, and engage in the various activities.

If we want less obnoxious fund-raising we should show up at meetings and make our views known.

If we want a different set of speakers at the convention, we should show up at our meetings and tell them who we do want to speak for us.

As an example? I'd far rather have Rod Wright speak at the NRA convention than Ted Nugent. . . But if I want that kind of change I need to go to the meetings, be active, and let my views be known.

GOEX FFF
08-09-2010, 3:28 PM
Considering the fact, If it wasn’t for the NRA since 1871 we would have lost MANY if not all of our Firearms rights a long time ago, there probably wouldn’t even have been a CGF, CRPA , SAF much less the weight of the 2A. Just because the NRA today makes some decisions based on what’s “best” for protecting our 2A rights, by supporting someone that might have a [D] before their political name, aside from their stance on issues “outside” of the RKAB, doesn’t mean they’re “sell outs” or “giving in”. As been mentioned many times, the “R” in the NRA doesn’t stand for “Republican”. The NRA sees what’s best in protecting our fundamental RKBA.

Personally, I choose to see the bigger outlook of what the NRA has already done for 2A rights in this country and I won’t choose to bite the hands that have succeeded in persevering the amount of freedoms WE have today. To me, we as Law abiding American firearms owners, owe it to the NRA for being the largest core foundation in protecting our 2A and civil firearms rights for nearly 140 years.
Imagine where we would be now without them and its now 4 million strong membership……..

"Junk mail", phone calls and alerting Emails are totaly benign and miniscule compared to what the NRA does and has done in preserving our 2A Freedoms.

dfletcher
08-09-2010, 3:39 PM
Disclaimer: I am not creating this as a political attack or something, I just want to hear some honest thoughts from fellow gun owners about this.

So yesterday I received an application for the NRA in the mail, which means that my gun ownership is now common knowledge (probably always was). I am conflicted about this because I support the 2nd amendment obviously, but I the rest of what the NRA is famous for doesn't jive with me.

I am an atheist, a humanist and a feminist that believes responsible adults should be able to smoke weed, marry the one they love or own firearms without being demonized or deemed a criminal. However, the NRA is not exactly famous for their tolerance of gay/women/racial rights, which makes me not want to support them no matter how many guns I own (3 for the record).

Are there any like-minded gun owners like me out there that is an NRA member? Do you believe the NRA is just getting a bad rap maybe?

Or is there a less...emotional...gun rights group out there for people who just want to defend the 2nd amendment but not infringe on the other amendments that defend others rights as well?

Again, you can believe what you like in your day-to-day life, I just want to know if the NRA is really the only game in town for us....


If you poke around here and other sites a bit you'll find much disagreement with NRA's stated position of focusing on gun rights only & not dealing with other rights. Their possible/pending/supposed support of Harry Reid is one example as is their recent actions regarding the DISCLOSE bill making it's way through Congress. Folks chided them for taking a "gun rights only" approach on both matters.

As an organization, NRA states its focus is gun rights only & they state other issues do not matter. Are you aware of any non-gun issues they've promoted such as you described? I've not heard of them going outside the gun issue. If they support someone of the right on guns it seems to me that does not indicate support on other issues, but I suppose incidentally that's the result.

With respect to the folks in NRA and their leadership, I'd say they are right of center and I suspect you are aware being an atheist, humanist, etc puts you slightly off the "sweet spot" of their usual membership profile, right? I think you'll find that's the case with most progun groups. Except maybe here of course.

IGOTDIRT4U
08-09-2010, 3:53 PM
The way you put this is somewhat obscuring. Do you mean that they are famous for their lack of tolerance? If so, I have to say I have seen absolutely no evidence of this.

If you mean that they should demonstrate their tolerance in a more active way, I have to ask why? It is not the NRA's job to specifically promote tolerance on these subjects, which have little or nothing to do with the Second Amendment, excepting in that the Second applies to everyone, including people who are in one of the classes gay/women/ racial minority.

Indeed, we have a number of people in those classes on this forum. I have never heard from them that they feel the NRA is disrespectful of them.

Why do you have this problem?

100% agreed. It's not their role to go beyond 2A issues, nor have I found them to be an active campaigner against other 'rights'.

Imagine how little members they would have if they tried to cover the spectrum of other rights? It's a no-go right at the get go.

Zonie
08-09-2010, 4:11 PM
The rest, including the "no-compromise" GOC, GOA, etc... Not so much.

The GOA probably keeps the NRA a hell of a lot more honest than it would otherwise be. I figure that that alone is worth the price of membership, even if it doesn't have much lobbying juice.

And, incidentally, the GOA has been getting noticed lately:

http://www.slate.com/id/2239294

When I saw this article, I was so pleased that I paid off my life membership early.

jdberger
08-09-2010, 5:27 PM
Hey look! There's that Harry Reid guy again! ;)

nick
08-09-2010, 6:12 PM
The GOA probably keeps the NRA a hell of a lot more honest than it would otherwise be. I figure that that alone is worth the price of membership, even if it doesn't have much lobbying juice.

And, incidentally, the GOA has been getting noticed lately:

http://www.slate.com/id/2239294

When I saw this article, I was so pleased that I paid off my life membership early.

I have a couple of comments on that.

1. I've noticed GOA and GOC being invited to various debates where the goal seems to be to make gun owners and the organizations representing them look scary, radical, and pretty stupid. Basically, to further the stereotypes the media and our most benevolent overlords keep spreading about us. My guess is, since the NRA representatives do a pretty good job of projecting respectability and reducing the antis' arguments to shreds in that kind of debates (at least, in the ones I've seen), the antis now try to go after GOA and GOC for providing the fuel for their propaganda. As a side effect of that, GOA and GOC get more media exposure. Not sure it's the kind of exposure we want though.

2. Somehow I find it hard to believe that Harry Reid would've actually caved to the pressure from GOA. For one, they blasted him pretty badly, as they campaign for more than the 2A rights. Secondly, they aren't exactly in a position to damage him.

At the same time, he was getting support from the NRA, and NRA IS the 800-pound gorilla, AND his consituents are more likely to listen to the NRA than GOA.

The difference here is that the NRA generally does such things quietly, unless there's a good reason to be loud, while GOA screams on top of its lungs all the time. So to a typical journalist (i.e. someone who doesn't know much about anything) it's the "GOA pressured Harry Reid by screaming on top of its lungs and shaking the air in impotent fury", and not "the NRA quietly approached Harry Reid and inquired if he wanted to have their support in the tough re-election battle he's about to have, or would he rather have the NRA campaign against him in a place where people like their guns".

Well, this is my take on that article, anyway.

curtisfong
08-09-2010, 6:16 PM
SAF, CGF, NRA, CRPA in that order, imo

the rest are worthless, from what i can tell.

OneSevenDeuce
08-09-2010, 6:19 PM
As others have said, the NRA does not comment on religion, gay rights, legalizing pot, or anything else not associated with 2A. I also am an atheist and share some of your views, I have no problem with the NRA.

Monte
08-09-2010, 7:44 PM
Go here (http://www.shootingusa.com/LATEST_UPDATES/NRA_news/NRA_Membership/nra_membership.html), and you can save $10 on an annual membership...which you could then donate to CGF (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=108030). :43:

Scott Connors
08-09-2010, 7:48 PM
Disclaimer: I am not creating this as a political attack or something, I just want to hear some honest thoughts from fellow gun owners about this.

So yesterday I received an application for the NRA in the mail, which means that my gun ownership is now common knowledge (probably always was). I am conflicted about this because I support the 2nd amendment obviously, but I the rest of what the NRA is famous for doesn't jive with me.

I am an atheist, a humanist and a feminist that believes responsible adults should be able to smoke weed, marry the one they love or own firearms without being demonized or deemed a criminal. However, the NRA is not exactly famous for their tolerance of gay/women/racial rights, which makes me not want to support them no matter how many guns I own (3 for the record).

Are there any like-minded gun owners like me out there that is an NRA member? Do you believe the NRA is just getting a bad rap maybe?

Or is there a less...emotional...gun rights group out there for people who just want to defend the 2nd amendment but not infringe on the other amendments that defend others rights as well?

Again, you can believe what you like in your day-to-day life, I just want to know if the NRA is really the only game in town for us....

I'm an Atheist, pro-choice and pro-Gay rights, and I feel right at home in the NRA. You shouldn't believe everything that the Other Side says about the NRA; in fact, you'd do better to believe the exact opposite of everything they say--with the exception of, we do kick their A@@ and steal their lunch money. :D

Scott Connors
08-09-2010, 7:58 PM
100% agreed. It's not their role to go beyond 2A issues, nor have I found them to be an active campaigner against other 'rights'.

Imagine how little members they would have if they tried to cover the spectrum of other rights? It's a no-go right at the get go.

However, where those other rights impact their baliwick, the NRA has stood up. Viz helping the Deacons for Defense against the KKK. And don't forget that Roy Innis is a member of the Board of Directors.

joedogboy
08-09-2010, 8:01 PM
Whoa whoa, chill joedog, I meant the issues NOT related to guns! Besides, I have already been set straight 100fold by all the fine members here about any and all misconceptions. I'll be joining up this week!

I appreciate all the responses, I am happy to see that actual members could assuage my fears about joining up and that like-minded members are out there!

My comment was not meant to be taken as antagonism. I meant to point out some of the things the NRA does that are often overlooked.

Scott Connors
08-09-2010, 8:08 PM
I am a basic NRA member, but whenever they call looking for more money (using the same sort of "the sky is falling!" scare tactics that Conservative Action Alerts and others use), I take the chance to remind them that when they continue to have idiot ex-governors and crying lying fearmongering tv hosts as key spokespeople at their national convention, they will never get any additional support from me.

Both Palin and Beck are with us on RKBA. So is Harry Reid. Everything else that they do that isn't illegal, immoral (and Political Correctness does not equate Moral), and fattening is Not Our Business. Result? NRA gets yelled at by members from both polarities for supporting a politico that they dislike. NRA is neutral on other issues, which means that their other positions, be it Supporting Obamacare or Supporting Arizona's illegal immigration law, or opposition to either, is simply not relevant.

vincewarde
08-09-2010, 8:56 PM
In recent years the number of Democrats receiving NRA support has increased about 2.5 times. In the 90's they supported about 10% Dems, 90% Reps - now it's 25% Dems, 75% Reps. Why the change? The Dems are running more pro 2nd amendment folks, and some Dems - like Harry Read - have become more supportive. From the perspective of protecting the 2nd Amendment, supporting Read makes a lot of sense. As majority leader in the Senate, he is in a position to bury any gun control legislation that the house might send over.

I am a pro-life, Bible believing minister (who has some very close friends happen to be gay). I consider myself a conservative Republican. That said, the day the NRA stops being a one issue group focused on the 2nd Amendment and the RKBA - they will not get another dime from me. Our rights are more important than parties. The NRA is a civil rights organization pure and simple. To borrow a phrase - If we cannot all hang together for the whole Bill of Rights, we will surely hang separately!

joedogboy
08-10-2010, 10:51 AM
The Republicans also seem to be running more candidates that are weak on gun rights.

I think that gun rights are an issue that the parties see as a way to appear centrist or moderate. When Dem candidates want to appear moderate, they are often pro gun rights. When Repub candidates want to appear moderate, they are often anti gun rights.

russ69
08-10-2010, 1:09 PM
The NRAs stance is simple; If it is anti-gun/gun owner, they are against it. It's as simple as that. They are not active in any other arena. Is the membership mostly conservative, most likely yes, but some of us are so conservative that we believe in equals rights for everyone!
By the way the rules for NRA bullseye competition allow women and people with disabilities to compete directly against the men, something the rest of the world has not yet embraced, food for thought.

Thanx, Russ