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diginit
08-07-2010, 7:41 PM
What is the PC reguarding the loan of a handgun to a friend that is possibly the target of ANOTHER home invasion until he has purchased his own and waited the stupid 10 days so he can defend his family? I think I know but I would like verfication. Maybe I should loan him one that I have owned before the mandatory registration? But what would happen if he had to actually use it? I ask this because if anyone hurts one of his 2 little girls, I will hunt them down myself.

Malthusian
08-07-2010, 7:52 PM
You can loan for 30 days
He must have a HSC

Whether you loan a gun registered to you or a pre-DROS gun would be best answered by someone with legal knowledge

diginit
08-07-2010, 7:59 PM
Is this simply because there is a possible threat?

jb7706
08-07-2010, 8:03 PM
Don't loan mags >10 rounds with the gun if you have them.


12020 (a)(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes
to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or
offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-
capacity magazine.

and so on.

Cokebottle
08-07-2010, 8:06 PM
Registered or not, it won't matter.
If charges are pressed against him, it still falls under "crime committed with a handgun not registered to him" statutes.
Whether it's registered to you or not, during the investigation, they are going to ask him where he got the gun. Unregistered, you have plausible deniability... except denying that you loaned him the gun, you would then be in violation of PC148 in lying to the cops in the process of a criminal investigation.

Personally, I would loan him one that is registered to you. That would be one less "gray area" that may cause the cops to feel that there are shenanigans afoot.
I would even go a step further and draft a simple CYA "loan agreement" that simply states that the term of the loan is for the lesser of 30 days ending on 9/6/2010, or until the "loan-ee" can take possession of his own gun, and that the purpose of the loan is for home defense.

Also make sure that he knows that if he has to use it, the only thing he is to say to the cops is "I was in fear for my life, but I'm too shaken up to talk right now. I'll be happy to answer any questions you have tomorrow with my attorney present."

diginit
08-07-2010, 8:15 PM
The advice is all good and is well excepted. Thank you. Hypothetically, If I, myself was to shoot an assailant with a pistol I owned before reg. was required, What could happen?
Yea. I'm fishing for information...

Malthusian
08-07-2010, 8:20 PM
You would be arrested
It would not matter if you had 20 witnesses
There would most probably be a court case
It would be followed by a civil suit
The registration status of the firearm would be the least of your worries
However if "you" are the shooter. You would be best to use a firearm registered to you
Otherwise an unregistered firearm charge would be added

diginit
08-07-2010, 8:26 PM
As I have heard before,Our laws are truly made to protect the criminal.:mad: What if I were to loan him my 12 Ga. 20" with OO buckshot instead?
Handguns seem to be covered in Sh*t.

diginit
08-07-2010, 8:34 PM
You would be arrested
It would not matter if you had 20 witnesses
There would most probably be a court case
It would be followed by a civil suit
The registration status of the firearm would be the least of your worries
However if "you" are the shooter. You would be best to use a firearm registered to you
Otherwise an unregistered firearm charge would be added

So, I can posess and transport a pistol that I have owned since 1975. But I can't use it in self defence if necessary?

Connor P Price
08-07-2010, 9:08 PM
I don't believe that's the case at all, there are cases of people, even felons, picking up a nearby gun (not theirs) and shooting an attacker in the middle of an incident. They've ended up fine. If the shooting is entirely justified then I believe your good. At least I've been able to find no PC suggesting otherwise.

GrizzlyGuy
08-07-2010, 9:36 PM
It's a bit more complicated than it should be. Factors such as age, family relationship between the parties (if any), duration, HSC, etc. all come into play. See here in the FAQ:

Loaning Questions (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/FAQ#Loaning_Questions)

If he has to use it in a self-defense scenario and he lawfully possesses it at the time of use (including possessing it as a result of a loan) there should be no legal issues related to ownership/possession.

diginit
08-07-2010, 9:42 PM
Thanks Griz, that answers all my questions.

Mssr. Eleganté
08-07-2010, 9:50 PM
The "handgun not registered to you" thing only applies to illegal carry. If you get caught illegally carrying a handgun that is not registered to you then the charge can be a felony instead of the normal misdemeanor. If you don't illegally carry the handgun then it doesn't matter to whom it is registered.

johnthomas
08-08-2010, 2:07 PM
• Infrequent loans of firearms between persons who are personally known to each other for any
lawful purpose, if the loan does not exceed 30 days in duration. (Penal Code § 12078(d).)
• Loans of a firearm for the purpose of shooting at targets on the premises of a target facility
if the firearm is kept within the premises of the target facility at all times.
(Penal Code § 12078(h).)
• Loans of an unloaded firearm or a firearm loaded with blanks for use solely as a
prop for motion picture, television or other entertainment event. (Penal Code § 12078(s).)
• Loans of a long gun to a licensed hunter for a period of time not to exceed the
hunting season for which the firearm is being used. (Penal Code § 12078(q).)
• Loans to minors by a parent, legal guardian, or grandparent:
- Long guns may be loaned for an indefinite period.
- Handguns may be loaned for the purpose of engaging in a lawful activity, and the loan does not
exceed the period of time necessary to participate in the
activity.
• Loans to minors by other than a parent or legal guardian:
- Long guns may be loaned with the express permission of a parent or legal guardian if the
loan does not exceed 30 days.
- Handguns may be loaned with the express permission of a parent or legal guardian for not more
than 10 days. (Penal Code § 12078(p).)

Go to the doj website, on the left panel you will see the firearms handbook, click on the link. Lots of good information there. JT

Ron-Solo
08-09-2010, 12:41 AM
You would be arrested

Wrong

It would not matter if you had 20 witnesses

FAIL Again

There would most probably be a court case.

Possibility, but it depends on the circumstances, which is why you want to be sure you followed all appropriate laws

It would be followed by a civil suit

Maybe, which is why you want to be sure you followed all appropriate laws

The registration status of the firearm would be the least of your worries
However if "you" are the shooter. You would be best to use a firearm registered to you
Otherwise an unregistered firearm charge would be added

This advice is Epic Fail.

I have investigated numerous incidents where a homeowner shot an intruder. Only once did the homeowner get arrested, and that was because he was clearly lying based on the physical evidence and he shot the person when there was no actual threat.

if you loan him a gun, make sure it is DROS'd to you. If it is not, and happens to be held has evidence following a shooting, the police will not be able to return it to you without going thru a LOT of MAJOR HEADACHES.

You can loan a handgun for no more than 30 days. Like stated before, do not loan any magazines with a capacity greater than 10 rounds. That is a whole different can of worms.

elcajon
08-09-2010, 12:45 AM
Answer: loan a C & R.

Quiet
08-09-2010, 12:55 AM
Answer: loan a C & R.

A loan of a C&R firearm still has to abide by PC 12078(d)(1).


Penal Code 12078
(d)(1) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent loan of firearms between persons who are personally known to each other for any lawful purpose, if the loan does not exceed 30 days in duration and, when the firearm is a handgun, commencing January 1, 2003, the individual being loaned the handgun has a valid handgun safety certificate.

johnthomas
08-09-2010, 8:44 AM
Answer: loan a C & R.




where did you get that answer?