X-ray machines fail to detect assault weapon

[zatoh]

I don't know if this is another "Glock Scare" or if better training needed. It seems like ANY suspicious object should be investigated. A 16 inch metal rod would seem extremely out of place in any carry on luggage.

X-ray machines fail to detect assault weapon
Essex County Sheriff Armando Fontoura said today that he will issue a warning to other police agencies after his officers seized an assault weapon made with so little metal it does not clearly show up on a security X-ray.

Narcotics officers found the Professional Ordnance Carbon-15 Type-97 pistol in the car of a drug suspect in Newark and noticed it was a cut above the usual weaponry employed by local drug dealers, Fontoura said.

Officers in his ballistics laboratory, who said they had never seen an assault weapon made with so much plastic, had it taken to Newark Liberty International Airport earlier today for a test-run through the security scanners — minus its 30-round clip.

The image on the X-ray appeared as a straight metal rod, with no outline of a stock or a trigger guard, something an inattentive security guard may view as no more threatening than a curling iron, the sheriff said.

“When I saw the image, I was shocked by how much didn’t show up,” said Lt. Dennis Hultay, head of the sheriff’s ballistics lab.

Fontoura said he was concerned the weapons, small enough to be tucked in a briefcase, could pass unnoticed not only at the airport but at also at entrances to courthouses and other public buildings.

He said the weapon’s .223-caliber ammunition travels at a speed of 2,500 feet per second, fast enough to penetrate a bullet-proof vest.

“This a nasty weapon,” he said. “That’s the ammunition we’re using in Iraq. If we’re not alert, this could go right past security.”

Joseph Green, a spokesman for the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, said federal law requires firearms be made with sufficient metal content to be detectable at security checkpoints.

He said he could not immediately determine whether this weapon met those requirements but said the agency encouraged the sheriff to pass the word if he believes it poses a threat. He said the ATF would look into the matter if it was asked to by the sheriff.

Mark Hatfield Jr., acting director of the U.S. Transportation Security Administration office at Newark Airport, stopped short of labeling the weapon a threat, but said the test run would help his officers be more vigilant.

Contributed by William Kleinknecht and Ron Marsico
Star Ledger, NJ

END OF STORY

[PistolKidd]

ugh...another glock type "oooh its plastic, porcelain, ceramic" type scare huh.. i guess the barrel, the springs, gastube, FCG, BCG are all transparent as well huh...

i guess anybody doing "their" airport security job might fail to notice these things..despite their METAL signature on an x-ray machine. :confused:

[jdberger]

Clearly they thought that it would be too easy to spot the mag and the bullets, so they left them out of the test. Isn't there supposed to be a buffer tube and buffer, too?

Like you couldn't sneak an M1 tank past airport security if you distracted them with a box of donuts....

[leelaw]

100% unadulterated bullcrap.

Barrel. Bolt. Bolt carrier. Hammer, Trigger, Sear, Magazine release, Takedown pin. Pivot pin. Springs and detents. Buffer tube. Recoil spring. Buffer. Magazine (unless polymer). Ammunition.

If he claims it shows up as "just a rod" he is "just a total liar" and I'm sure I missed some other metal bits.

[gmcem50]

There is so much BS in this story, I don't know where to begin...

New Jersey; ...figures. That bunch of jack booted clowns couldn't tell their butts from a hot rock, let alone conduct a security test properly.

File this one under "More evidence that those EEEEVIL assault weapons should be BANNED!!!"

This sounds like the infamous 'porcelain Glock 7'.

[PistolKidd]

no no..thats what you cant tell! the buffer tube is also made out of carbon fiber!!!

http://www.weareguns.com/carbon15.htm

well from this picture it looks like it's made from the same material as the rest of the receiver..

I know what we can do, we just need to regulate buffer tubes and mandate that they be made out of steel or better yet, LEAD!! yes yes..that would be the perfect solution, no more worries about mistaken identities..

:confused:

[DrjonesUSA]

I don't know if this is another "Glock Scare" or if better training needed. It seems like ANY suspicious object should be investigated. A 16 inch metal rod would seem extremely out of place in any carry on luggage.



Not to mention a magazine (or two) full of bullets.

[50 Freak]

I know why the barrel and bolt were not easily detected....It didn't look like toe nail clipper.

Thoses things never get through airport security....

[zefflyn]

X-ray machines don't detect anything. It's the moron at the screen who's supposed to detect stuff. :rolleyes:

In any case, the security 'tards wouldn't look for it anyway, unless the random-drawing security check luckily pulled the guy for detailed analysis.

[VeryCoolCat]

Trying to identify figures in an x-ray is harder than it looks. WAY more harder than it looks. The most identifiable parts I can tell were the barrel and springs in the magazine.

Do yourself a favor, dont pack your bags too tightly, so they don't have to open up your bag and do a complete search.

[shopkeep]

Wait a minute... I thought the CARBON-15 was banned in New Jersey, how come that drug dealer still had one :confused: ?

Well this makes the second time Law Enforcement has been concerned about the CARBON-15... the first mention of the pistol was in a bulletin to the Ohio State Police. Good thing I'm already stocked up and ready for a fed ban on Carbon Fiber rifles... too bad I can't get a CARBON-15 pistol in this crazy state though :(!

[socalsteve]

What about that STUPID statement about the ammo! It fires a .223 - we use that in Irag.

Dumb and Dumber isn't just a movie anymore - its a new form of gov't!

[EOD Guy]

Items do not have to be metal to be seen by an x-ray machine. They just have to have mass. I've x-rayed a stainless steel thermos and could see the level of coffee inside.

[odysseus]

Items do not have to be metal to be seen by an x-ray machine. They just have to have mass. I've x-rayed a stainless steel thermos and could see the level of coffee inside.

yup yup. Why else would you think it's been used on humans? My bones aren't made out metal...

[blacklisted]

Someone needs to email the "author" of this article.

[zefflyn]

Trying to identify figures in an x-ray is harder than it looks. WAY more harder than it looks. The most identifiable parts I can tell were the barrel and springs in the magazine.

Yep. There was some quiz on the internet that showed pictures of random stuff on an x-ray machine, and had you guess whether it was dangerous or not.

When I flew last week, I put my Surefire flashlight in my carry-on. Even though I was one of the random-flags for detailed screening, they either didn't notice it, or didn't care.

[dwtt]

Someone needs to email the "author" of this article.
That would be a waste of time. The writers, William Kleinknecht and Ron Marsico, won't care about what any gun owner wants to say.

[Sgt Raven]

Yep. There was some quiz on the internet that showed pictures of random stuff on an x-ray machine, and had you guess whether it was dangerous or not.

When I flew last week, I put my Surefire flashlight in my carry-on. Even though I was one of the random-flags for detailed screening, they either didn't notice it, or didn't care.

Last weekend I had 2 surefires plus spare battery/bulb case in my carry on. The screener stoped the line and looked at it for a few seconds then let it go thru. Or it could have been the cell phone and watch or something else in it.

[jdberger]

Items do not have to be metal to be seen by an x-ray machine. They just have to have mass. I've x-rayed a stainless steel thermos and could see the level of coffee inside.
<slips tinfoil hat on> and what are you??? Coffee police?? Where's you're freakin warrant???

[MysteryCereal]

I work at SAN airport and we are not just taught to look for metal, but large plastic masses. Which happen to show up quite well, actually, on the screen. Plastics(explosives) are the main thing we are looking for. Just my .02

[wuhungsix]

Guns of any sort are no brainers on the x-ray. This story is BS. Expeirenced TSA screeners don't look twice at flashlights. The main focus now are explosives, thats why the policy on sissors and tools have been relaxed. Picking out .22lr rounds can be difficult when loose in a bag but 30.06 shows up plain as day. X-rays are difficult to interpret. They show in certain colors that help a operator distinguish what they maybe composed of. This is certainly not your x-ray at the docs office. The pictures can be very abstract and you need to use imagination to function behind that machine. Let me tell you, a hair dryer is a whole other creature when x-rayed.

Screeners are not involved in the computer selection of additional screening. Screeners are also not allowed to tell you why you have been selected. You may hear the word "random," it is not. Most screeners will only know a few of the more common reasons but most likely they are just as in the dark as you are. Shoes are a concern because of people like Richard REID.

I don't appreciate wise cracks when it comes to screeners. They just do as they are told. Policies are from high above and beyond the management at airports. I admit, the mix of screeners vary from professional intelligent individuals to your bottom of the barrel applicants, but they all are working for you. Pay is poor, hours are long, and moral is low and very little thanks are given in this job. Sure you have bad apples but its the same everywhere you go. When your pay is low quality individuals are hard to come by. If you ever feel like a screener was rude or out to get you, by all means ask for a supervisor and complain. Thats your right.


Guess who I work for. After 9/11 I felt that I could contribute somewhere somehow. I was in college when the towers fell and we all remember where we were that morning. Shortly after graduating I was layed off by Gov. Davis and found myself applying for TSA. I am now on collateral duty but you can see me occasionaly at the checkpoint. If I don't have a smile on my face its probably because of the 50+ hrs I worked that week. Okay I am done with my rant.

[m2hbvic]

Yup, I just saw the KCAL 9 news story on the carbon AR pistol/rifle.

What a bunch of BS in their story!!!!!! Had only the typical media sensationalism BS all through their story! And, as usual, you could tell that they really had absolutely no knowledge about firearms/bullets or X-ray technology at all! Same media BS hype as when Glock pistols came out years ago and they were "discovered" in airport X-rays,............years ago. I would figure that the carbon AR has more detectable metal in the barrel/bolt/trigger parts/buffer parts than a Glock pistol has.

Get ready for a possible ban on carbon AR's now that the media/Schumer/Feinstein/Boxer/Kennedy/Brady/Diaz *****holes are getting "educated" by the TV news and newspapers on all this. Gosh, I think they tried to see if a Barrett M82A1 rifle would show up on an airport X-ray,............and this must've been the reason why they banned .50 BMG rifles her in CA. Yeah, that's it!
Vic

[MysteryCereal]

My favorite part in the news story was a clip from a press conference with a man placing the AR-pistol in a suit case and saying something along the lines of.."Look how easy it fits in a suitcase....maybe it was made that way". I was shocked at how idiotic it sounded.

[ohsmily]

Correct me if im wrong but what does it matter unless it was in a carry on bag. I have flown in the past 4 years with 2 Real FN FAL FULL AUTO machine guns in and out of LAX to Reno with no problems from what I have seen there is no law against having firearms in checked baggage.

On one occasion I came home from Los Angeles with 10 1000 round cases of .308 lake city ammo that I checked as baggage and also Had 3 full length rifles (MG) I had no problem.. also the cases of ammo had the ORM Hazardous materials placards (DOT placards) on them the clerk didn't even bother to read the bright orange label.

EDIT NOTE: "B)" below is INCORRECT. I am wrong about it. I will leave it up though, no sense in deleting or modifying it.

It was completely legal for your to check your firearms as baggage. It was ILLEGAL for you A) not to declare them and B) ILLEGAL to check ammunition as checked baggage (or carry-on for that matter). You can't even SHIP ammunition by air, it must go ground.

[ohsmily]

I am wrong about it being illegal to check ammunition. Federal law does allow it. After a cursory search, most airlines allow you to check ammunition (although many have a limit on how much ammo you can check).

However, you are required to declare that you are checking firearms and/or ammunition.

Some airlines even allow you to check baggage that contains ammunition and a gun in the same container.

[EOD Guy]

SemiAutoSam,

The maximum amount of ammunition for personal use that can be checked in baggage is limited by law and regulation to 5 Kg (11 lb) per passenger. (Individual airlines may further limit that amount.) Anything over that amount has to be shipped as cargo with the associated marking, labeling, packaging, and shipping paper requirements in Title 49 of the Code of Federal Regulations, the International Civil Air Organization Technical Instructions for the Safe Transportation of Dangerous Goods by Air, and the International Air Transport Association Dangerous Good Regulations.

Small arms ammunition can be shipped by air, but it must be classed as a Division 1.4S explosive material, which makes it very expensive to ship. That's why almost all ammunition shipments within the US are by ground. Shipping an undeclared hazardous material shipment within the United States is subject to a civil penalty of $15,000 per day that the shipment is in transit.
(49CFR Appendix A to Subpart D of Part 107)

DOT is very sensitive to undeclared hazardous material shipments on passenger aircraft. That was what caused the ValueJet crash in Florida a few years ago that killed everyone on board. People responsible for that shipment went to jail.

Your 10,000 round shipment was well over the legal limit. The people handling your baggage obviously didn't know anything about the hazardous material/dangerous goods regulations.

[jester]

I'm a ramper for a major a/l at LAX, and EODguy is absolutly correct.
Firearms & ammo *must* be declared and ammo also must be in the factory packaging and in a predetermined amt.