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Centurion_D
04-27-2006, 5:56 PM
I was wondering if we have any PRK democrates that are pro gun? Or is it just republicans (pro gun) vs. demos (anti gun).

The Soup Nazi
04-27-2006, 6:06 PM
Don't forget those ka-razy Libertarians!

mikehaas
04-27-2006, 6:26 PM
You may have been noticing several pro-gun committee and even floor votes transpiring over the last few weeks. AB 2123 (anti-gun) defeated, SB 1239 (pro-gun) passed, SB2111 (pro-gun) passed... others.

The state legislature is over 60% Democrat. That means all commttees are also majority Democrat. Chairs are Democrats.

So, none of those NRA-sponsored bills that have been passing could have passed without significant Democrat support. Some Dems have to be voting YES on the good ones and NO (or abstaining) on the bad ones for that to be happening. We need Democrat support to win and NRA has been getting it.

In truth, this idea that all Dems are anti-gun hurts us (or all GOP are pro-gun). Indeed, there are pro-gun Democrats and some that just vote with NRA sometimes. Just Tuesday, AB 2123 (bans lead ammo while hunting) failed in the Assembly Water, Parks & Wildlife Committee. In a major bi-partisan defeat, Democrats Baca, Matthews and Parra joined with Republicans to send a strong message to the bill's author.
http://calnra.com/legs.shtml?summary=ab2123

BTW, I'm not a Dem. :-)

Mike

natrab
04-27-2006, 6:33 PM
I used to consider myself a Democrat. After some of the things that party has done lately, I've declared myself an independent. I generally lean towards the demo side of things except for a few key points (guns first and foremost).

Charliegone
04-27-2006, 6:34 PM
Joe Baca is pro-gun, in fact very pro-gun and also Gloria Negrete Mcleod both democrats in the Inland Empire that are pro-gun. It is said Mcleod and Baca will run for anti-gun Soto's seat in the Senate, so it would be wise to support them if want more pro-gun votes in the Senate. :D

Its like they say...if you can't beat em' join em, than make them pro-gun..or something of that sort. :D

http://www.nrapvf.org/Elections/State.aspx?y=2004&State=CA#STATE%20ASSEMBLY

Stanze
04-27-2006, 6:49 PM
Best Democrat ever.

""By calling attention to 'a well regulated militia', the 'security' of the nation, and the right of each citizen 'to keep and bear arms', our founding fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy. Although it is extremely unlikely that the fears of governmental tyranny which gave rise to the Second Amendment will ever be a major danger to our nation, the Amendment still remains an important declaration of our basic civilian-military relationships, in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason, I believe the Second Amendment will always be important."

-Senator John F. Kennedy, April 1960"

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/5831/jfkm165og.jpg

CalExile
04-27-2006, 6:51 PM
Currently they are all too busy voting to support resolutions in support of breaking our immigration laws. That makes allot of sense... a legislature who is responsible for writing laws voting support to break them. Assclowns.

Can'thavenuthingood
04-27-2006, 7:15 PM
Got to vote the democrats out of office regardless of anti or pro gun. The majority rules. That means as previously noted, the commitees and commitee chairs are ruled by dems.

Nothing gets to the Governors desk for signing unless the dems want it so. I think they all take turns being pro gun for their constitient hunters and target shooters.

On the other hand, no seat is changing until redistricting is accomplished. In the meantime, its crumbs.

Vick

Cdog
04-27-2006, 7:16 PM
Demorats are anti gun. Maybe you are young and haven’t figured that out yet. Overwhelmingly they are anti gun. That's why we have such F'ed up restrictions here in CA. Look at that idiot kerry. Waved around a shot gun to appeal to the manly men demographics but votes to take away more of our gun rights with the AW ban. You better figure out what side you're on and stick to it. CA has been ran by these Sheit heads for way to long and it's just gotten worse as time goes on

The Soup Nazi
04-27-2006, 7:18 PM
Redistricting always works in their favors anyways. Soon they'll completely kill gun rights, and they'll be able to afford to do it. Thats why they have such an open stance to illegal immigration. They want them to dilute the ranks of those who support guns. They'll then offer the illegals anything they want, free healthcare, advantages against legal citizens in education, to get their votes. Once the districts are redrawn, conservatives will be isolated and spread out rather than being concentrated.

linuxgunner
04-27-2006, 7:34 PM
Of course we have Democrat friends.

The better-informed people are the more they are on our side. Our enemy is ignorance, not any particular party.

Charliegone
04-27-2006, 7:49 PM
Of course we have Democrat friends.

The better-informed people are the more they are on our side. Our enemy is ignorance, not any particular party.


I agree with you.;)

Librarian
04-27-2006, 8:21 PM
Redistricting always works in their [Dems, I think this means - L.] favors anyways. Actually, redistricting in California favored the incumbents; Repubs got a set of 'safe' seats the last time the lines were drawn.

Redistricting on some basis other than party registration would have to be better than what we have, though it might not change the D/R ratio enough to make things competitive.

Centurion_D
04-27-2006, 8:38 PM
Well the reason why asked is just to make sure the next time I vote it will be for someone pro-gun.

Mesa Tactical
04-28-2006, 12:32 PM
Well the reason why asked is just to make sure the next time I vote it will be for someone pro-gun.

Well, then don't vote for the party, vote for the person.

The Republican National Committee has been trying for years to put an anti-gun Republican in the California statehouse, and have finally succeeded.

Meanwhile, last time I looked the Republican Party controlled ALL THREE BRANCHES of the Federal government, and yet we haven't exactly been swamped by pro-gun legislation at the Federal level. Just one law, as far as I can tell. These people do seem to find time, however, to interfere in the lives of the families of comotose Floridans.

On the other hand, one of our best friends in the House is a liberal Democrat, John Dingell.

xenophobe
04-28-2006, 12:48 PM
Progressive liberals are anti gun. Maybe you are young and haven’t figured that out yet. Overwhelmingly they are anti gun.

Fixed it for you.

Not all Democrats are Liberal. Many Democrats are not anti-gun. Almost all Progressives are. You do the math.

dwtt
04-28-2006, 1:26 PM
Not all Democrats are Liberal. Many Democrats are not anti-gun. Almost all Progressives are. You do the math.
I'd be happy to find one Democrat in Alameda county who isn't anti-gun because only Democrats have any chance of winning elections here. Look at the San Jose mayor race, it's a Democrat party, but I don't know if any of them are pro gun.

Centurion_D
04-28-2006, 4:37 PM
Well, then don't vote for the party, vote for the person.

Which is exactly why I'm asking for names..not political party.

xenophobe
04-28-2006, 5:51 PM
I'd be happy to find one Democrat in Alameda county who isn't anti-gun because only Democrats have any chance of winning elections here. Look at the San Jose mayor race, it's a Democrat party, but I don't know if any of them are pro gun.

I agree, in metro areas of one of the most liberal states in the country it may be difficult finding a Democrat who isn't anti-gun. The demographics of the Bay Area don't neccessarily reflect that of the US as a whole though. Ultra-liberal progressives are a minority in the Democratic party, but they have the loudest voices, so they appear to be more of them... Seems like they've been losing steam. Time will tell.

whit
04-28-2006, 7:10 PM
I'm a born and bred democrat, probably always will be democrat, and gun rights are just some of the important things that I consider when thinking about who I vote for; believe it or not, there are other important considerations too.

On the other hand, I am a military school grad, a former officer in the USMC, and got my first gun when I was 12.

I love guns, I own guns, and I always will.

I live in Marin county, one of the most liberal and anti-gun bastions in the state, and instead of blathering on endlessly about the "idiots" on the other side, and causing more hate and discontent and just generally making the situation worse all the way around, I talk quietly and respectfully with my friends and neighbors, asking them how they came to hold their particular views, and if they have ever really thought deeply about the subject themselves, instead of just parroting what they have heard, etc.

The upshot of this is that I have ended up taking quite a few anti-gun types down to the local pistol range and had a great time introducing them to my 9mm and my .45, and have had the greatest time, and the most fun, changing their minds right there on the spot and watching them find a completely new and unexpected experience.

This is the way that we will win over converts gun ownwership.

I mean think about it, do you really think insulting the folks who are on the other side of this issue, and who also happen to have a pretty good lock on the political situation, is the way to get what you want?

Charliegone
04-28-2006, 8:31 PM
I'm a born and bred democrat, probably always will be democrat, and gun rights are just some of the important things that I consider when thinking about who I vote for; believe it or not, there are other important considerations too.

On the other hand, I am a military school grad, a former officer in the USMC, and got my first gun when I was 12.

I love guns, I own guns, and I always will.

I live in Marin county, one of the most liberal and anti-gun bastions in the state, and instead of blathering on endlessly about the "idiots" on the other side, and causing more hate and discontent and just generally making the situation worse all the way around, I talk quietly and respectfully with my friends and neighbors, asking them how they came to hold their particular views, and if they have ever really thought deeply about the subject themselves, instead of just parroting what they have heard, etc.

The upshot of this is that I have ended up taking quite a few anti-gun types down to the local pistol range and had a great time introducing them to my 9mm and my .45, and have had the greatest time, and the most fun, changing their minds right there on the spot and watching them find a completely new and unexpected experience.

This is the way that we will win over converts gun ownwership.

I mean think about it, do you really think insulting the folks who are on the other side of this issue, and who also happen to have a pretty good lock on the political situation, is the way to get what you want?


Exactly. If we isolate ourselves we will never win. You see...its kind of like Christians or any other religious institution converting people to their faith...one person can make a difference. One day one of these people we convert will become the next Governor someday, we never know...so its best to try to convince and convert as many as we can.:D

Cdog
04-28-2006, 8:53 PM
You guy's need to put down the glass pipe. Letting demorats protect your 2nd amendment right is like allowing a pedophile baby sit your kids. WAKE UP!!!!!!

Here is the stance of the Repub party.





Democrats Resisting 'Anti-Gun' Label
By Susan Jones
CNSNews.com Morning Editor
February 26, 2002

(CNSNews.com) - The head of the Democratic Party in Montana wants to shake off his party's anti-gun image - something that may be costing Democratic candidates votes, particularly in southern and western states.

Wire reports quote Montana Democratic Party Chairman Bob Ream as saying, "In the rural areas, we've gotten targeted with the image that we're going to take people's guns away, which is false."

He blames Republicans and the National Rifle Association for spreading that fear, but Republicans and the NRA say they're simply telling the truth about the Democrats' anti-gun stance.

As part of their plan to counter the anti-gun label, Montana Democrats, in their contacts with local residents, are talking more about the rights of hunters and sportsmen - even adding the following language to the state party platform:

"We support the right to keep and bear arms. We support increased efforts to keep guns out of the hands of our children and out of our schools...The Montana Democratic Party affirms Montanans' right to participate in hunting, fishing and outdoor recreation on our public lands as part of our state's heritage..."

To spread that message with what it calls "clarity and regularity," the Montana Democratic Party says it is "organizing a series of roundtable groups designed to focus on the concerns of Montanans on topics such as gun ownership..." The first meeting of the Hunter and Outdoor Sports roundtable was attended by hunters and other outdoor sportspeople from Southwest Montana.

The roundtable group is intended to "counter years of misleading statements from Republican allies that Montana Democrats are 'anti-hunting' or 'anti-gun'," said Montana Democratic Party Chairman Bob Ream.

The Montana Democrats' pro-gun moves have the blessing of the national Democratic Party.

A spokeswoman for the Democratic National Committee told one wire service the national party is encouraging state parties to follow Montana's lead in softening the Democrats' anti-gun image.

If the shoe fits...

But some Republicans say it's perfectly accurate to hang an anti-gun label on Democrats.

After all, their 2000 party platform supported numerous regulations on gun ownership, reading in part: "We need mandatory child safety locks, to protect our children. We should require a photo license I.D., a full background check, and a gun safety test to buy a new handgun in America. We support more federal gun prosecutors, ATF agents and inspectors, and giving states and communities another 10,000 prosecutors to fight gun crime."

In that same 2000 Democratic Party Platform, the Democrats blame Republicans for doing "nothing" to keep guns away from those who should not have them.

In their 2000 GOP platform, Republicans noted, "Individual rights - and the responsibilities that go with them - are the foundation of a free society."

The Republican Party Platform addresses gun ownership thus:

"We defend the constitutional right to keep and bear arms, and we affirm the individual responsibility to safely use and store firearms. Because self-defense is a basic human right, we will promote training in their safe usage, especially in federal programs for women and the elderly.

"A Republican administration will vigorously enforce current gun laws, neglected by the Democrats, especially by prosecuting dangerous offenders identified as felons in instant background checks.

"Although we support background checks to ensure that guns do not fall into the hands of criminals, we oppose federal licensing of law-abiding gun owners and national gun registration as a violation of the Second Amendment and an invasion of privacy of honest citizens.

"Through programs like Project Exile, we will hold criminals individually accountable for their actions by strong enforcement of federal and state firearm laws, especially when guns are used in violent or drug-related crimes."

Cdog
04-28-2006, 8:59 PM
Senate Democrats Push Anti-gun Measures
NewsMax Wires
Wednesday, Feb. 25, 2004
WASHINGTON – Senate Democrats hope to complicate the future of a Republican-led bill that would shield gun manufacturers and distributors from lawsuits arising from crimes in which guns were used.
The GOP-controlled Senate plans to take up the legislation Wednesday, with Republicans saying they have enough votes to pass it in an early-morning vote. But Democrats plan to force votes on at least two other gun issues they want to attach to it, including an amendment to renew the ban on what they call "assault weapons" and another to require background checks for all purchasers at gun shows.

"The bill will provide an opportunity to vote on these issues," said Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., who opposes the bill but supports the Democrat amendments. "What's going to happen after that, I don't know."

Republicans, along with many Senate Democrats, have been pushing for the gun immunity legislation for some time. Gun advocates say firearm makers shouldn't be forced to spend millions of dollars fighting off lawsuits designed to win large rewards and bankrupt them for making legal products.

Gun rights groups plan to urge majority Republicans to defeat the proposed amendments. The GOP-controlled House already has said it does not plan to approve the extension of the ban on "assault weapons."

The White House has urged the Senate to pass the legislation without amendments.

"The administration urges the Senate to pass a clean bill, in order to ensure enactment of the legislation this year," the White House said in a statement. "Any amendment that would delay enactment of the bill beyond this year is unacceptable."

Democrats including Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle of South Dakota agreed to back the legislation after gun supporters accepted a specification that firearms manufacturers and distributors would not be immune to lawsuits involving defective products or illegal sales.

3 GOP Senators Join Dems

Renewing the 1994 prohibition against "assault weapons" has been a Democrat priority this year. They picked up support Tuesday from GOP Sens. John Warner of Virginia, Mike DeWine of Ohio and Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island.

"Although I voted against the ban a decade ago, over the past 10 years it has reduced crime dramatically and has made our streets safer," Warner said. "The legislation also has protected the rights of gun owners better than many of us predicted."

The three GOP senators' support does not guarantee the amendment's approval in the Senate, but "this gives the effort to renew the assault weapons ban new momentum," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., sponsor of the original ban.
© 2004 Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Cdog
04-28-2006, 9:00 PM
Dems Showcase Their Anti-Gun Policies
By Susan Jones
CNSNews.com Morning Editor
July 23, 2004

(CNSNews.com) - A Second Amendment group says Democrats are showing their true colors by inviting a "rabidly anti-gun" lawmaker to address the Democratic National Convention next week.

The Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (CCRKBA) said Rep. Carolyn McCarthy will have a "plum opportunity" to push for legislation extending the ban on so-called assault weapons - a ban that will expire in mid-Sept.

"For months, Democrats have been out hustling gun owners for their votes, trying to portray themselves as pro-Second Amendment," said CCRKBA Chairman Alan Gottlieb. "Giving McCarthy a microphone proves Democrats haven't abandoned their failed gun control policies."

CCRKBA notes that McCarthy's husband was murdered by a "deranged racist gunman" named Colin Ferguson, who also wounded her son in a shooting on a commuter train in 1993. But Ferguson did not use an "assault weapon" in that crime. He used a handgun he purchased in California -- a state with some of the most restrictive gun laws in the nation.

"So much for John Kerry's pheasant hunting and skeet shooting photo ops with borrowed firearms, or any other lip service that Democrats are offering gun owners back in their districts," Gottlieb said.
"Allowing McCarthy a forum to campaign against the firearms rights of millions of law-abiding Americans in the middle of their national convention should tell firearms owners all they need to know about the true Democrat agenda."

CCRKBA is urging all gun owners to listen to McCarthy's speech and the applause it elicits from the party leadership - "and then decide whether Democrats deserve to be trusted with their Second Amendment rights."

Cdog
04-28-2006, 9:04 PM
John Kerry`s Voting Record on Second Amendment and Hunting Issues

His voting record makes John F. Kerry the most anti-gun Presidential nominee in United States history. Since his election to the U.S. Senate in 1984, John F. Kerry has cast 59 votes (NRA did not score 4 of them) on issues involving firearms rights and hunting. These votes included votes to ban guns, to impose waiting periods on gun buyers, to financially punish gun manufacturers for operating a legal business and to restrict the free speech of Second Amendment advocates.

In addition, Kerry currently is a co-sponsor of S. 1431, which would ban all semi-automatic shotguns, all detachable-magazine semi-automatic rifles and many other guns, calling the whole lot "assault weapons."

Following are highlights of those votes that demonstrate Kerry`s unwavering record of opposition to gun owners` rights.

Overview

In a 20-year career, Kerry voted with gun owners only four times, and each of those votes comes with qualifications. He voted:

1) against a bill NRA opposed for final passage only after Kerry helped sabotage the bill by adding anti-gun amendments (S. 1805)

2) for a non-biding sense of the Senate motion that had no actual impact (S. 2521 in 2000)

3) for a study of "armor piecing" ammunition—a vote he made moot a few minutes later by voting for a broad ban of center-fire rifle ammunition (Votes 27 and 28 in 2004 on S. 1805)

4) to allow airline pilots to carry firearms (vote 210 in 2002 on HR 5005).

In all, he cast only one real vote for gun owners` rights, and it in support of a narrow group of people charged with responsibility for the safety of others.

Comparing Kerry`s votes to other well known anti-gun Senators who have served with him shows:

1) he voted with Ted Kennedy on all but three votes, and only one of those three had any impact—the vote to arm pilots.

2) he voted with Charles Schumer, the leading anti-gun voice in the Senate, on all but one vote, and that was the non-binding sense of the Senate motion mentioned above (Senate vote 1030).

3) Kerry has a much more anti-gun record than 2000 Democrat Presidential candidate, Al Gore, Jr., who cast votes on 12 key issues before becoming part of the most anti-gun administration in history. Gore voted to protect Second Amendment rights five times on votes related to passage of the Firearms Owners` Protection Act and once to stop a semi-auto ban. Kerry opposed gun owners in each instance.

Gun Bans

Kerry has voted on nine separate occasions on issues directly related to banning semi-auto firearms. In 1990 he voted three times to support a ban on semi-autos. He was one of only 17 to vote for Howard Metzenbaum`s amendment to S. 1970, that would have banned not only a list of specific firearms but would have banned any firearms similar to those specified. On two other occasions, Kerry voted to support Dennis DeConcini-sponsored legislation to ban nine specific firearms for three years.

In 1993 Kerry voted for the Dianne Feinstein-sponsored Clinton Gun Ban and further supported the passage of that legislation in 1994 by voting to support the Omnibus Crime bill on three key votes. Finally, in 2004 he voted to reauthorize the Clinton Gun Ban.

Ammunition Ban

Kerry voted in 2004 to ban most center-fire rifle ammunition, including the most common rounds used by target shooters and hunters. Kerry voted in support of Ted Kennedy`s amendment to S. 1805 that would have banned rifle ammunition capable of penetrating soft body armor. Congress has repeatedly rejected such a "performance-based" approach.

Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs)

Kerry voted in 1985 to allow BATF to conduct unlimited warrant-less inspections of FFL holders. Well-documented and shocking BATF abuses of license holders were a primary reason the Firearms Owners` Protection Act was introduced in Congress and signed into law by President Reagan. Kerry was one of only 18 Senators to vote to allow such abuses—which liberal Democrat Congressman John Dingell called the acts of "jack-booted fascists"—to continue.

In 1993 Kerry was one of 30 Senators who supported an amendment to H.R. 2403 that would have increased the fee for a FFL by more than 37 times. The result of this amendment would have been to force many small or part-time firearms dealers out of business. This would have had a significant impact on both the availability and price of firearms particularly in rural areas of the nation.

Campaign Finance Reform

Kerry consistently supported passage of campaign finance "reform" legislation. NRA consistently and vigorously opposed such efforts to prohibit the exercise of free speech during the crucial weeks leading up to elections. Kerry voted in 1996 and 1997 for legislation that failed to win final passage and voted in 2001 for S. 27, the bill that became law.

When NRA announced it was considering acquiring a television or radio outlet and seeking the same exemption from campaign finance rules that news organizations have, Kerry sent the Federal Election Commission a letter urging the commission "to prevent the NRA from hijacking America`s airwaves with the gun lobby`s money." (Associated Press, Dec. 9, 2003)

Civilian Marksmanship Program

Kerry voted twice to eliminate the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP). In 1993 he voted in support of an amendment to eliminate its funding, and in 1996 he voted to abolish the CMP`s successor, the Corporation for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and Safety, a federally chartered civilian marksmanship program.

Mandatory Storage

Kerry twice supported legislation that would have mandated the inclusion of trigger locks with any handgun sale. In 1998 he supported the Barbara Boxer amendment to S. 2260, and in 1999 he voted for the Herb Kohl amendment to S. 254. Both required that trigger locks be included with all handgun sales. In 1998 he voted against Larry Craig`s amendment to S. 2260 that would have recognized that gun locks are not the only method to safely store a firearm by simply requiring the availability of gun locks, but would have left the choice of the best safety method to the individual gun buyer.

Gun Shows

On a number of different occasions, Kerry has voted to regulate gun shows by imposing a background check requirement on private gun owners that goes beyond the requirements for FFL holders operating in a gun store. Kerry twice voted in 1999 to require that all gun sales at a gun show go through an FFL holder. That legislation would have allowed authorities up to three days to conduct the checks, threatening the operation of gun shows, which are typically two-day, weekend events. Kerry placed two additional votes supporting passage of this legislation.

In 2004 Kerry again voted to regulate gun shows by mandating background checks on guns sold by private individuals at gun shows, again allowing up to three days to complete the check.

Hunting

Kerry voted in 1994 to close off 1,181,000 acres of California`s Mojave Desert to hunting. He supported a proposal to designate tens of thousands of acres of the Mojave desert as a national park, where hunting would have been prohibited. He voted against a proposal to make the area a national monument which would have allowed hunting to continue.

Kerry, unlike 56 of his fellow Senators, is not a member of the Congressional Sportsmen`s Caucus. With more than 300 members in the House and Senate, it is one of the largest Caucuses in the U.S. Congress, and is "open to Congressmen and Senators who are sportsmen or who support the concept of sustained use and wildlife management, even if they do not themselves take to the fields and waters to fish, hunt or trap."

Firearms Owners` Protection Act (FOPA)

In 1985 Kerry was one of only 26 Senators to support a Kennedy amendment to FOPA to continue the ban on the interstate sale of handguns to law-abiding Americans. He also was one of only 15 Senators who voted against final passage of FOPA, a bill designed to specifically protect the constitutional rights of law-abiding gun owners by removing the ban on interstate sales of rifles and shotguns, curtail BATF abuses of FFL holders by limiting the number of routine inspections and other provisions. Magazine Bans,

On two occasions, first in 1998 and again in 1999, Kerry voted to ban the importation of high- capacity magazines. On both occasions he voted to support a Feinstein amendment to block importation of magazines manufactured before the ban on these magazines was implemented in 1994. He also voted for the 1993 Crime Bill, that included the ban on these magazines.

Cdog
04-28-2006, 9:05 PM
Kerry voted in 1999 against an amendment to the Juvenile Justice bill that called for increased mandatory minimum and maximum penalties for the illegal transfer or use of a firearm. Instead of supporting this legislation that focused its impact on criminals, Kerry supported broad regulation of law-abiding gun buyers.

In contrast, the year before Kerry voted to impose excessive penalties of a year in prison and a $10,000 fine on an adult if a juvenile gains access to their firearm, even by theft, and then merely displays it in a public place.



In 2004 Kerry returned from the campaign trail for the first time that year to cast votes against gun owners and to argue against the passage of the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. This bill would have protected gun manufacturers from the politically motivated lawsuits that are being filed with the intent of bankrupting the industry. The bill was defeated after it was amended to include renewal of the Clinton Gun Ban and gun show regulation, both supported by Kerry.

In 2000 Kerry was one of only 29 Senators to vote to prohibit gun manufactures from discharging debts created by the reckless lawsuits filed by municipalities. This move was a clear attack on the viability of gun manufacturers, designed to punish them even as they continued to win in court.



Kerry has consistently supported the imposition of a waiting period on gun purchases. In 1985 he voted to require a national 14-day wait. In 1991 he voted for a 7-day wait, and in 1992 he supported a 5- day wait. He also voted in 1993 to specifically allow the continuation of state waiting periods after the advent of the National Instant Check system (NICS), and he voted to strike the sunset of the federal waiting period after implementation of NICS. In all, Kerry voted 11 times to force law-abiding citizens to wait to exercise their Second Amendment rights..



• Kerry denounced NRA`s successful efforts to eliminate monies being spent by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to advance gun control policies. (Boston Herald, Aug. 14, 1996)



• Voted to spend $15 million intended for housing programs on ineffective gun buy-back programs.

• Voted to commend the Million Mom March in 2000 for their march on Washington that included calls for gun owner licensing, gun registration and other restrictions on law-abiding gun owners.

chris
04-28-2006, 9:44 PM
i have been against Dems in this state since the roberti-roos ban. i always will be against democrats because they want our guns. today the semi-autos. next the bolt action well the .50 is the start and you know they want them all. don't fool yourself they want them. i'm disgusted with what they have turned the state i grew up in and still live in. they have insulted veterans by taking away their preferance on the hadgun safety test. by a veteran himself gray davis correct me if i'm wrong.

so tell me should i trust a democrat hell no. but will i flood them with bright paper letters when i get home? oh hell yes. guys flooding their offices with phone calls and letters lets them know we are here and we will not tolerate their crap. but the people of kalifornia need to wake up and vote for someone else until that happens nothing will change. we gun owners are at fault for what this state has become. we became complacent and did nothing now we are on the way to losing it all and now we wake up. now we must wake up and fire these guys from their jobs when it is time to vote.

end of rant.

subway
05-29-2006, 1:05 PM
far left / extreme liberal / radical dem here.

own three guns: two bolts and a pistol caliber carbine. (ruger PC9)

favor most existing gun laws (not all) - no one is trying to ban mid caliber long guns.

seem to be alone in being able to see the words "well regulated" in the 2nd Ammendment.

available to give reading comprehension tutorials to anyone who would like to learn the meaning of that phrase.

and don't forget, the greatest proponents of open carry in the history of the great state of California were,......
wait for it.........the Black Panther Party! with their visit to the Sacremento Statehouse, all carrying shotguns, and a few rifles!

Omega13device
05-29-2006, 2:04 PM
The condescending tone of your post was unnecessary.

In response to your point, the phrase "well regulated" refers to the militia, not gun ownership.

Don't forget the rest of the amendment: "...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Would you like a reading comprehension tutorial on the meaning of that phrase?

You have an odd conception of rights if you think it's okay to infringe them as long as it doesn't affect you.

Oh, and FWIW I'm a Dem and I think most of our existing gun laws are ineffective, pointless, feel-good legislation.

FreedomIsNotFree
05-29-2006, 2:25 PM
far left / extreme liberal / radical dem here.

own three guns: two bolts and a pistol caliber carbine. (ruger PC9)

favor most existing gun laws (not all) - no one is trying to ban mid caliber long guns.

seem to be alone in being able to see the words "well regulated" in the 2nd Ammendment.

available to give reading comprehension tutorials to anyone who would like to learn the meaning of that phrase.

and don't forget, the greatest proponents of open carry in the history of the great state of California were,......
wait for it.........the Black Panther Party! with their visit to the Sacremento Statehouse, all carrying shotguns, and a few rifles!


Cut the crap. So until they try to ban YOUR guns, particularly "mid caliber long-guns", you dont seem to have a problem with further regulation over law abiding citizens....you are a baffoon.

And in terms of the 2nd Amendment, ask yourself a very simple question.....why was the 2nd Amendment unchallenged for 2 centuries before IDIOTS started claiming it was NOT an INDIVIDUAL right? You wont answer though.....because the logic does not follow.

I am a proponent of open carry.....and according to the law it is still legal as long as the gun is not loaded.....did you not know that? This was written into the law long before the Black Panther Party came along....and to use the straw-man argument as you did in this case shows the complete lack of thinking that you seem to be proud of.....I wouldn't.

hoffmang
05-29-2006, 2:28 PM
Well regulated in 1789 meant well or properly functioning. Take a look at, for example, the North Carolina state constitution that was drafted in 1789. It calls for the Government of North Carolina to be well regulated. That certainly didn't mean that the government of North Carolina should have a 10 day cooling off period before it does anything official. Clocks also tend to be well regulated in the older vernacular.

See: http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Firearms/Data/Historical%20Debate/Well-Regulated

Subway. Did you know that the California handgun carry restrictions were passed in the Anti-Chinese bills here in California? Gun control began as an attempt by in power whites to disarm blacks, hispanics, and chinese at various times and places through history.

subway
05-29-2006, 2:41 PM
ok, that's two replies that didn't get it right.

I don't favor gun control because they are not after my rifles, I bought rifles becasue they are legal. I followed the law and have no problems. And anyone who buys things that they know people are trying to ban, shouldn't be surprised when a law is passed a year or two down the road banning that type of gun.

you are a baffoon

is that like a bassoon? I think you may have meant buffoon, or were you trying to call me a bassoon???

SemiAutoSam
05-29-2006, 2:56 PM
Here is a page from the brady website this may give our side a insite at how the DEMS vote.

Im sure there are also other pages that this page links to that will give even more information.



http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/scorecard/scorecard.php?shr=CA

jtv3062
05-29-2006, 3:06 PM
they say that assault rifles fire high power "bullets" if you look up the meaning assault rifles it is a select fire rifle that shoots a intermittent round so by definition your mid caliber long guns are "what" besides being select fire. .308, 30-06 are high power battle rifle cartridge these are popular hunting rounds. so what's really going to be ban when they ban "high power assault rifles".

blacklisted
05-29-2006, 3:37 PM
What you said sickens me.

Anyone that does not value ALL of our rights is our enemy. I hope you realize what you have said.

Your comments on the second amendment are a JOKE, and it is clear that you have not studied it or the motivations behind it. You have only looked at the text, and tried to justify gun control with it.

I'm sure you'll be surprised when they ban your guns too.

We ARE law abiding citizens. We follow the law, and only buy what is legal. Eventually, guns that were perfectly legal are banned. By only buying "politically correct" guns, you are only delaying the inevitable.

Do you think that if you lick your master's boots long enough, they'll let you keep your guns?

And what is a "mid caliber long gun"? Does that mean .30-.45 caliber? You just wait. As soon as they realize that these are more powerful than a "high powdered" .223, they'll be next. After the ban on semi-automatic rifles is complete, then bolt action rifles will be called "sniper rifles" and restricted as well. It's already happening (look at the .50 BMG, what's next?).

far left / extreme liberal / radical dem here.

own three guns: two bolts and a pistol caliber carbine. (ruger PC9)

favor most existing gun laws (not all) - no one is trying to ban mid caliber long guns.

seem to be alone in being able to see the words "well regulated" in the 2nd Ammendment.

available to give reading comprehension tutorials to anyone who would like to learn the meaning of that phrase.

and don't forget, the greatest proponents of open carry in the history of the great state of California were,......
wait for it.........the Black Panther Party! with their visit to the Sacremento Statehouse, all carrying shotguns, and a few rifles!

ok, that's two replies that didn't get it right.

I don't favor gun control because they are not after my rifles, I bought rifles becasue they are legal. I followed the law and have no problems. And anyone who buys things that they know people are trying to ban, shouldn't be surprised when a law is passed a year or two down the road banning that type of gun.

you are a baffoon

is that like a bassoon? I think you may have meant buffoon, or were you trying to call me a bassoon???

HEUER
05-29-2006, 3:40 PM
In Bizzarro world Democrats like guns. :p

6172crew
05-29-2006, 3:46 PM
Lets all try to come up with a gunlaw that a Democrat didnt vote for.

Cant find any can you.

If the weather wasnt so great here this state would be a bigger dung heap, starting with Marin. (Yea that was a shot at the USMC O), you vote to keep the Dems in power yet none of them including Peloski will stand up for a Vet or a gun owner no matter how much money you guys give them....well unless your neighbor Sean Penn asks them.

By supporting the party that sells out gun owners you are in fact a gun taker and mark my words the Dems are going to go after your Kel-tecs soon enough.

Still cant name a Dem who votes against gun control can you?

Oh and Baca is not gun freindly, my buddy who works for him can back me up with that one. You can ask Baca yourself but I dont know his number in his private jet.:rolleyes:

mzimmers
05-29-2006, 4:10 PM
I don't often find myself defending democrats (I'm reminded of Mike Savage's slogan that liberalism as currently practiced in the USA isn't a political orientation, but rather a mental illness), but I think it's a bit simplistic and inaccurate to claim that all democrats are anti-gun.

I guess it comes down to what you mean by "on our side."

If you mean that they're out there soliciting signature for petitions to repeal existing gun laws, well, no, there probably aren't too many of them.

BUT: if you expand your definition to mean that they're not supporting additional legislation or encouraging others to do so, you might find a few.

I recently took my hunter safety training. In the coursework, there was a factoid which I'm almost positive came straight from the NRA, that in the USA, about 5% of the population is pro-hunting, another 5% is anti-hunting, and the rest of the population is indifferent. I realize that talking about hunting isn't the same as other aspects of gun rights, but there's got to be some overlap there.

I really can't believe that we'd have any rights left at all WRT guns if the democrats were massively against us. I think our real problem is that the anti-gun people are much squeakier wheels than we are. From my observations, with the exception of supporting the NRA through membership fees, most hunters/gun owners are fairly quiet individuals who collectively seem like an insular, almost incestuous group to outsiders.

The solution? Appeal to our nation's youth. Volunteer to teach safe gun practices to your local cub scouts (or girl scouts), or other groups. Or, take your child's friend to the range and let him shoot a few rounds of .22. Date the target for him and let him keep it. Invite him back.

Teach a child to shoot, and you've probably influenced a future voter for life.

hoffmang
05-29-2006, 4:11 PM
Ignoring Subway for a second, this is an issue that can cross party lines. I'm no Republican, but I'm a staunch 2A supporter. I think the interesting 2nd Amendment questions are about select fire rifles but I digress.

There are a couple of Dems in the California State Government who get B or better ratings from the NRA. I leave it to someone else to go do the work. Politically we need to be finding those Dems that we can pull over to supporting law abiding citizen's right to own and use guns.

The anti gun community has successfully used the AW ban to drive a wedge in the pro gun community. Subway here is a classic example but the worse one is that the NRA has to operate carefully around "AW"s. If we can peel more Dems off we can make it harder for the Antis to operate as well.

Centurion_D
05-29-2006, 4:14 PM
Lets all try to come up with a gunlaw that a Democrat didnt vote for.

Cant find any can you.

If the weather wasnt so great here this state would be a bigger dung heap, starting with Marin. (Yea that was a shot at the USMC O), you vote to keep the Dems in power yet none of them including Peloski will stand up for a Vet or a gun owner no matter how much money you guys give them....well unless your neighbor Sean Penn asks them.

By supporting the party that sells out gun owners you are in fact a gun taker and mark my words the Dems are going to go after your Kel-tecs soon enough.

Still cant name a Dem who votes against gun control can you?

Oh and Baca is not gun freindly, my buddy who works for him can back me up with that one. You can ask Baca yourself but I dont know his number in his private jet.:rolleyes:


This is why I don't vote demo. I have been voting Rep for as long as I can remember. I'm a one issue voter. I don't care about anything else except the 2nd amendment. I think RPK demo's don't give a damn about the 2nd amendment. I just want to make sure my vote goes to a pro gun candidate no matter what his stance is on anything else.

FreedomIsNotFree
05-29-2006, 4:17 PM
Sad fact is either party will sell us out the moment it is in their political interest....

I dont trust either party with ANY of my rights.....

Charliegone
05-29-2006, 8:24 PM
Lets all try to come up with a gunlaw that a Democrat didnt vote for.

Cant find any can you.

If the weather wasnt so great here this state would be a bigger dung heap, starting with Marin. (Yea that was a shot at the USMC O), you vote to keep the Dems in power yet none of them including Peloski will stand up for a Vet or a gun owner no matter how much money you guys give them....well unless your neighbor Sean Penn asks them.

By supporting the party that sells out gun owners you are in fact a gun taker and mark my words the Dems are going to go after your Kel-tecs soon enough.

Still cant name a Dem who votes against gun control can you?

Oh and Baca is not gun freindly, my buddy who works for him can back me up with that one. You can ask Baca yourself but I dont know his number in his private jet.:rolleyes:

Heres something interesting...

http://www.newsreview.com/sacramento/Content?oid=oid%3A33270

Heres one for you...

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/09/21/california.42/

Thats his father but.. they vote similar. Joe Baca Jr. HAS always voted pro-gun when he even doesn't have to since its pretty much lost cause for us...so yeah dude.. I'm sure he is anti-gun:rolleyes: His record sure shows it.:rolleyes:

You need to realize gun control advocates come in all shape and colors in the first article I have provided to you it clearly states that it is the extreme left that is messing up this state and THEY still do not learn! I sure hope this next election they lose..I highly doubt it though. Also...there are anti-gun republicans as well.. McPherson, ARNOLD, and Maldonado are not very pro-gun. If you are refering to Baca the sheriff THAT is not who I am refering to.:D

6172crew
05-30-2006, 10:40 AM
If you are refering to Baca the sheriff THAT is not who I am refering to.:D

I was talking about the COP, so I guess we arent that far off.;)

Charliegone
05-30-2006, 3:19 PM
I was talking about the COP, so I guess we arent that far off.;)

Ok. So we were talking of 2 different people.:D