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View Full Version : Nuevo Laredo cartel shoot-out: After-Action report from BSOC


barrym66
08-05-2010, 3:25 PM
Lots of interesting information to note here re home/self defense in the actual report..note, it is NOT for the squeamish or after lunch! (Links to actual BSOC report are on the PDB link below).

From http://www.papadeltabravo.com/blog/?p=1147

Know Thy Enemy

Remember the big cartel-on-cartel shoot ‘em up in Nuevo Laredo? The Border Security Operations Center finally did something useful with their tax dollars and produced this fascinating after action report. Warning: It contains pictures of graphic trauma. Including one picture of a dead gangbanger that will make a zombie weep in frustration.

Some of my initial notes:


Automobiles and trucks are emphatically not cover. They are concealment at best and bullet magnets at worst!

Handfuls of loose 7.62×39 rounds at the site. All guns malfunction, even AK’s. Train accordingly.

Drug gangs aren’t just loading the TEC-9s and piling into the Impala anymore. They are coming equipped and trained for a sustained, coordinated engagement.

Common use of body armor.


Anyone still think there’s no place for the military style autoloading carbine for civilian self-defense? If you are not familiar with and/or own an AR, AK, FAL, M14 or similar (including ancillary gear such as extra magazines, magazine carrier, spare parts) perhaps you should fix that.


Again, content warning. Do not view after eating.

Spaceghost
08-05-2010, 3:39 PM
Interesting, noticed the ar receiver with no finish, I guess they are doing some home cnc work down there.

*Note to self* Head wounds from rifle rounds are nasty. You don't have to be a psychic from Gravedigger's dead body goose chase thread to know what was on their minds.

Tim Leese
08-05-2010, 3:56 PM
Mexico is worse than Iraq

Dangerpin
08-05-2010, 4:10 PM
Thank you for the very specific warnings. Gruesome stuff.

lazyworm
08-05-2010, 4:27 PM
all the damaged mags threw me off as well. Looks like we'd need to assume
some percentage of the mags will get damaged when SHTF.

frankm
08-05-2010, 4:35 PM
That's messed up, and these clowns cross our border too.

Spaceghost
08-05-2010, 5:16 PM
We don't know where the mags were recovered from. I am guessing that if you you mags are shot up like that on your chest rig, you aren't going to be around long enough to need them.

all the damaged mags threw me off as well. Looks like we'd need to assume
some percentage of the mags will get damaged when SHTF.

mbarnes
08-05-2010, 5:40 PM
This is really interesting. Is there any more articles on this firefight that may have more details on this event?

Durasteel
08-05-2010, 5:49 PM
We don't know where the mags were recovered from. I am guessing that if you you mags are shot up like that on your chest rig, you aren't going to be around long enough to need them.

Maybe if you were triple-stacking your mags in your pouches?

I've read where a cellphone stopped a .45 before...

crackerman
08-05-2010, 11:21 PM
Good analysis. The old banditos who spray and pray are long gone. We seriulsy need to update our tactics.


Oh and BOOM HEADSHOT :rolleyes:

stitchnicklas
08-05-2010, 11:44 PM
time to order that phaser from capt kirks Romulus surplus supply

Cali-Shooter
08-06-2010, 12:08 AM
all the damaged mags threw me off as well. Looks like we'd need to assume
some percentage of the mags will get damaged when SHTF.

Spot on. Thank GOD for rebuild kits. There is nothing more practical than a secret storage of rebuild kits in your closet or under your bed. If you don't agree, print out that picture of the bullet riddled Ak mags, and tape it to the inside of your closet, so you remember the need.

rojocorsa
08-06-2010, 12:50 AM
Oh and BOOM HEADSHOT

Someone had to say it. I still think that poop and vomit and nastier. Poop really grosses me out. But dang, them 7.62x39s are serious business.

Freagan
08-06-2010, 1:16 AM
These guys are getting official training from somewhere, even the terrorists coming out of al qaeda training camps aren't even near this level of preparation or as tactically disciplined

I honestly wonder if some PMF is making some side money off these guys

socalblue
08-06-2010, 1:24 AM
These guys are getting official training from somewhere, even the terrorists coming out of al qaeda training camps aren't even near this level of preparation or as tactically disciplined

I honestly wonder if some PMF is making some side money off these guys

Money buys lot's of things, including good training. The Darwin process has been hard at work down south & those that are left are experienced, motivated & trained.

elSquid
08-06-2010, 1:51 AM
These guys are getting official training from somewhere, even the terrorists coming out of al qaeda training camps aren't even near this level of preparation or as tactically disciplined


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Zetas

Hardcore folks.

-- Michael

BillCA
08-06-2010, 2:14 AM
Remember too that some of their operatives are ex-Federales who may have received U.S. training as well. I suspect many of them are fighters from other local Latin American countries or perhaps even Cuba.

I found it interesting they're using commercial radios to communicate. Probably stealing or buying radios of similar types for each tactical use. Recording the frequencies they use and P/L codes could be helpful in some cases.

The note about a radio charger and food indicating prolonged stays is enlightening. This means they may pre-position their people hours ahead of time and put them into final positions once their target has been spotted nearby. This means it may be possible to pre-scout an area and locate a possible ambush with the proper survelliance gear. Likewise it may be possible to jam their radios ahead of an attack (depending on the band/frequencies they use).

The scary part is their willingness to continually engage instead of making a hit & run attack. This can indicate a strategy of keeping some forces in reserve and adding them when necessary to complete the mission. Or indicate an increase in status/rewards for those who survive such missions.

Pont
08-06-2010, 2:52 AM
40mm HE grenade - no launcher recovered. I'm thinking the owner of that launcher got away.

Also, that would be a really sucky day to be the last guy into Walmart to buy shoes and find out they were out of stock.


The scary part is their willingness to continually engage instead of making a hit & run attack. This can indicate a strategy of keeping some forces in reserve and adding them when necessary to complete the mission. Or indicate an increase in status/rewards for those who survive such missions.
The mix of customized ARs and ultra-ghetto AKs suggests to me that there were core group leaders and then some sort of cannon fodder. The shoes seem like a really, really bad way of friend-or-foe recognition (can't see people's shoes in the heat of battle) and may have just been a sucker ploy to convince the cannon fodder they had a chance. Unless the ARs were all attackers and the AKs all defenders.

galekowitz
08-06-2010, 9:05 AM
Too bad that F-16 strafed that maroon suburban. It was a big loss in the firefight.

Gio
08-06-2010, 9:13 AM
Yikes!

Tim Leese
08-06-2010, 9:30 AM
Seeing this doesnt change my opinion of the Mexican drug cartels at all. They arent "sophistcated" and they arent "well trained".

They havent once engaged an enemy in a fair fight. They are ambushers of mostly innocent and unarmed subjects. The cartels like to storm buildings and dance halls and spray groups of teenage girls with autmatic gun fire from assault rifles. You call that "advanced military tactics" ??

I can assure you that if 20 well trained members from CalGuns came with their own store bought weapons for a fire fight with 20 cartel members that the cartel wouldnt even show up. The cartels arent in the business of fair fights. They are in the business of slaughtering unsuspecting and unarmed citizens.

I wouldnt be afraid to engage these two bit hoods.

Juice5610
08-06-2010, 9:46 AM
I saw this last week. The news now a days is that members from los zeta (ex mexican special forces gone rogue) took over two ranches in Laredo TEXAS! US SOIL! The media is not covering it and the towns sherrif/people are PISSED, The towen has been shut down for the last couple of days. I DONT KNOW IF THIS IS TRUE OR NOT. But heres a link

http://www.thecypresstimes.com/article/News/National_News/BREAKING_MULTIPLE_RANCHES_IN_LAREDO_TX_TAKEN_OVER_ BY_LOS_ZETAS/31835

Juice5610
08-06-2010, 9:49 AM
Seeing this doesnt change my opinion of the Mexican drug cartels at all. They arent "sophistcated" and they arent "well trained".


It would be nice if the above were true But the cartel responsible for that shooting were trained by US special forces to bring down other cartels and they decided the grass was greener on the other side and went for work for one of the cartels it was trying to bring down. Then they said F this and started theyre own cartel training their own people with the knowledge we provided them with.

I wouldnt be afraid to engage these two bit hoods.

You should be... I would be.

EDIT: Taken from the wiki link posted above


In the late 1990s, the Gulf Cartel leader, Osiel Cárdenas Guillen, wanted to track down and kill rival cartel members as a form of protection. He began to recruit former Mexican Army’s elite Grupo Aeromóvil de Fuerzas Especiales (GAFE) soldiers, originally trained in counter-insurgency and locating and apprehending drug cartel members. It is believed they were originally trained at the military School of the Americas in the United States[10][11] and by other foreign specialists of the United States, France and Israel. They were trained in rapid deployment, aerial assaults, marksmanship, ambushes, small-group tactics, intelligence collection, counter-surveillance techniques, prisoner rescues and sophisticated communications.

SuperSet
08-06-2010, 9:53 AM
You just said the magic words 'True or Not'. Have a healthy dose of skepticism when it comes to news, in general. For some reason, some people don't do the same for random blog postings. Sounds like BS to me.

I remember when this thread was posted on ARFCOM and everyone was talking about it. It's surprising considering we've been at war for almost 10 years and everyone acts like this is the first time they've seen a dead body or a shot-up vehicle.

Juice5610
08-06-2010, 10:03 AM
You just said the magic words 'True or Not'. Have a healthy dose of skepticism when it comes to news, in general. For some reason, some people don't do the same for random blog postings. Sounds like BS to me.

I remember when this thread was posted on ARFCOM and everyone was talking about it. It's surprising considering we've been at war for almost 10 years and everyone acts like this is the first time they've seen a dead body or a shot-up vehicle.

I hear you brother. Its not the first dead body we've seen its one of the first we've seen a couple of miles from our country as opposed to a dead body thousands of miles away. All the **** going on right over the border now a days has got me worried. What would keep this violence from spilling over to our side? Its not like our commander in chief would do anything major about it. He's bowing and shaking hands with murderers all over the world. A mosque was just approved for construction at ground zero for christ sake!!!. Our country is not once what it was. People need to wake up.

HCz
08-06-2010, 11:52 AM
I saw this last week. The news now a days is that members from los zeta (ex mexican special forces gone rogue) took over two ranches in Laredo TEXAS! US SOIL! The media is not covering it and the towns sherrif/people are PISSED, The towen has been shut down for the last couple of days. I DONT KNOW IF THIS IS TRUE OR NOT. But heres a link

http://www.thecypresstimes.com/article/News/National_News/BREAKING_MULTIPLE_RANCHES_IN_LAREDO_TX_TAKEN_OVER_ BY_LOS_ZETAS/31835

False. Some blog made up a story, and then some people who doesn't know better spread it around.

Some responsible people actually called the sheriff's around the area and cleared it up.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=325975&highlight=laredo
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=324907&highlight=laredo

rojocorsa
08-06-2010, 11:57 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Zetas

Hardcore folks.

-- Michael

This.

mbarnes
08-06-2010, 12:54 PM
Found some more pictures of the incident. Still more brutal stuff.

http://www.blogdelnarco.com/2010/07/nuevas-fotos-de-la-balacera-en-nuevo.html

CSDGuy
08-06-2010, 1:15 PM
The Los Zetas aren't your typical thugs. They were/are professionally trained in modern military combat techniques. The people that go do these things know what they're doing. You do NOT want to take these guys on by yourself. Think of them like a professional army... and treat them as such when considering fighting them. Would you want to take on a unit of highly trained soldiers? I wouldn't. Same thing. You want to fight them, bring your own highly trained soldiers, in sufficient numbers to wipe them off the face of the earth.

gotthelife4u
08-06-2010, 1:19 PM
Found some more pictures of the incident. Still more brutal stuff.

http://www.blogdelnarco.com/2010/07/nuevas-fotos-de-la-balacera-en-nuevo.html

All I can say to this is WOW. I am glad I have a strong stomach.

BigDogatPlay
08-06-2010, 1:21 PM
At least some of the "cannon fodder" may well be soldiers who've deserted (often taking their weapons with them) in search of a better payday. While some may only have had basic military training, certainly some will have AIT or beyond.

I'd concur that there probably isn't a tremendous amount of discipline on either side of this exchange, but sheer volume of fire can (in some cases) make up for that.

Tim Leese
08-06-2010, 3:54 PM
The Los Zetas aren't your typical thugs. They were/are professionally trained in modern military combat techniques. The people that go do these things know what they're doing. You do NOT want to take these guys on by yourself. Think of them like a professional army... and treat them as such when considering fighting them. Would you want to take on a unit of highly trained soldiers? I wouldn't. Same thing. You want to fight them, bring your own highly trained soldiers, in sufficient numbers to wipe them off the face of the earth.

When have they ever taken on a unit or group that even remotely compares to their numbers or armament ?

They are nothing more than thugs who target and kill mostly civilian and unarmed people.

Anyone can ambush and kill teenage girls at dance parties.

oddjob
08-06-2010, 4:38 PM
Zetas are very well trained and disciplined. They are not your "normal cartel." To go "toe to toe" with these folks with 20 cal gunners is just about like committing suicide. They will come at you with more soldiers and firepower. They have their informants and spies just about everywhere. Its like in the old days when we were told not to serve a search warrant at pager companies (investigating drug dealers). Its not that the upper management was "dirty" at all. It was the lower paid secretary and other support staff that was giving LEO's up. They were the ones who did the grunt work anyways. The Zetas know exactly where to find their informants.

Besides....I would guess most of the dead folks pictured are "victims" of the Zetas.

CSDGuy
08-06-2010, 4:52 PM
Don't get me wrong. The Los Zetas are definitely thugs. They're just not your typical thugs. They're well armed, well trained, and they're not (yet) stupid. They have their own training facilities. Their founders were Special Forces types.

From what I've read, I'm actually pretty thankful that they're in a turf war with the Gulf Cartel (their former employers)... Hopefully, they'll wipe each other out. However, they seem to also have an alliance with Los Negros, which has an association with MS-13...

offdeez
08-06-2010, 10:07 PM
Mexico is worse than Iraq

I read that you are more likely to be the victim of a homicide in our own capitol city of Washington D.C. than anywhere in Mexico. Homicide per capita that is! You just wont always get your head blown fro your shoulders here in the U.S., but this is a very dangerous world, not just in Mexico.

barrym66
08-06-2010, 10:26 PM
I read that you are more likely to be the victim of a homicide in our own capitol city of Washington D.C. than anywhere in Mexico. Homicide per capita that is! You just wont always get your head blown fro your shoulders here in the U.S., but this is a very dangerous world, not just in Mexico.

Uhhh, not sure where you are getting your data. ;)

DC's per-capita murder rate (at 31/100K) is the 4th highest in the nation, about 3 to 6X the typical major CA city (excepting Oakland), and over 6X the US per capita rate (at 5.4/100K). (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate)

Granted, DC's rate IS 2x the rate for ALL of Mexico, but still far lower than many of the high-risk cities in Mexico (such as Nuevo Laredo!). And it's DC, for chrissake...

The better comparison is total murder rate by country. Mexico's murder rate is almost 3X the US on a total per-capita basis... see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate .

Tim Leese
08-06-2010, 11:08 PM
I dare those cowards to step across the border. It would be game on !!

Freagan
08-07-2010, 1:16 AM
I dare those cowards to step across the border. It would be game on !!

They do everyday... they have actually been known to run across the border when theyre getting too much heat from the mexican military and hide in the US till things cool down

BillCA
08-07-2010, 2:57 AM
I dare those cowards to step across the border. It would be game on !!
Just before they dropped a 40mm on your head.

Drop the internet bravado. You sound like a fourteen year old. These guys are well trained and generally well equipped. The have taken on "equal" forces -- other cartels and gangs -- in firefights.

Their equipment says they're not just a bunch of drug sellers banded together for mutual aid. They've planned their operations, communicate with each other, coordinate their attacks, use military munitions, body armor and aren't afraid of a little 'colatteral' damage. Personally, if the fight is between rival drug groups, I'd just be inclined to hose down the streets from a pair of Apache's or use a few SuperCobras. But there's too much risk of colatteral damage for politicians.

I we used that stimulus package money to subsidize Texans who bought M1A rifles, or M1 Garands we might do some good. Start that firefight crap in our neighborhood and watch Texans play "remember the Alamo". :D

odysseus
08-07-2010, 3:01 AM
I'd just be inclined to hose down the streets from a pair of Apache's or use a few SuperCobras. But there's too much risk of colatteral damage for politicians.

F-18 and a few GBU-15s.

Mac
08-07-2010, 9:35 AM
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/mexico/12_dead_in_nuevo_laredo_shootout_98653859.html

Mexican Army. The way I read it.

Spaceghost
08-07-2010, 2:54 PM
OK, tell me I am not the only one to laugh at the dead guy wearing the Scooby-Doo shirt? I never pictured a cartel guy wearing one.

Dutch Schultz
08-07-2010, 3:13 PM
I'm not sure that, that is a cartel member. Kinda just looks like a guy who happened to be on that bus.

bambam8d1
08-07-2010, 3:17 PM
OK, tell me I am not the only one to laugh at the dead guy wearing the Scooby-Doo shirt? I never pictured a cartel guy wearing one.

lol yeah i found it surprising too haha. That guy who got shot in the head? It almost looked like his scalp was cut and peeled back... will getting shot in the head usuall do that? I always assumed it would be much ...less clean.. looking?

mbarnes
08-07-2010, 3:38 PM
OK, tell me I am not the only one to laugh at the dead guy wearing the Scooby-Doo shirt? I never pictured a cartel guy wearing one.

I'm guessing since he didn't have any tactical gear on or rifle near him and was inside the school bus he is most likely collateral damage.

Flouncer
08-08-2010, 9:28 AM
OK, I just went through all this and the links after 4 scrambled eggs and some really greasy bacon, 12 oz glass of cold milk . . . . . ..OK, so far. :eek: Where is my prize ??

Milsurps
08-08-2010, 10:25 AM
I wouldnt be afraid to engage these two bit hoods. :eek:

These are some really bad hardcore folks. They do not play well with others. :nono: