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View Full Version : SAME EXACT GUN..... DIFFERENT COLOR


THEDUELLIST
08-05-2010, 2:41 PM
Good afternoon. I am a new member here. I have a question for the FFL's out there.

There is a particular Beretta PX4 Storm 9mm type F that I really want to buy. According to the DOJ list it is described as :

PX4 Storm Type F / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4" 9mm 12/14/2010


Beretta now has an "Olive Drab" version of the same EXACT gun. As far as I "seem" to be concerned, there is no indication of either the model number or the actual color of this gun on the list. I think this is a big grey area that can be challenged.

The model I want is: JSPX001

If this model can be shipped from a store/owner with 10 round mags, then wouldn't this pistol be California legal?:confused:

Thank you all for your time

socalblue
08-05-2010, 3:17 PM
Good afternoon. I am a new member here. I have a question for the FFL's out there.

There is a particular Beretta PX4 Storm 9mm type F that I really want to buy. According to the DOJ list it is described as :

PX4 Storm Type F / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4" 9mm 12/14/2010


Beretta now has an "Olive Drab" version of the same EXACT gun. As far as I "seem" to be concerned, there is no indication of either the model number or the actual color of this gun on the list. I think this is a big grey area that can be challenged.

The model I want is: JSPX001

If this model can be shipped from a store/owner with 10 round mags, then wouldn't this pistol be California legal?:confused:

Thank you all for your time

Nope. Current Roster rules require each & every version be certified ($$$). Big reason why there are active court actions for this very issue (Pena v Cid)

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Pena_v_Cid

Ballistic043
08-05-2010, 3:25 PM
its so stupid its funny. look at this


SW1911 SC / Alloy, Steel, Stainless Steel Pistol 4.25" .45 ACP 8/10/2011


SW1911 SC / Stainless Steel, Alloy Pistol 4.25" .45 ACP 7/11/2011


to the DOJ they are still two different guns. same caliber, model, and length though.

THEDUELLIST
08-05-2010, 3:48 PM
What arrogance that the "powers to be" have. The funny things is that we are not fighting the second amendment....they are! What a shame.

kemasa
08-06-2010, 9:50 AM
A similar example is the Glock 17, the OD version is listed separately. According the law, similar firearms can be added, but I think the manufacturer has to pay for the listing, although not the testing. Hopefully the lawsuits will clear this up soon.

Capt. Speirs
08-08-2010, 11:43 AM
Stainless Colt Python on roster, Blue, not.

It is about money, another form of tax, in my opinion. You are not going to convince me at all that it is about safety.

kemasa
08-08-2010, 1:50 PM
It is not about money, nor is it about safety. It is about harassment and making it difficult to buy a firearm. If they could just ban them all, they would like that better, but otherwise they make it difficult and expensive too.

shotcaller6
08-08-2010, 3:43 PM
I don't quite grasp what you are saying when you say " If they could just ban them all, that would be better." Did I missunderstand?

kemasa
08-08-2010, 3:52 PM
The anti-gun people would like to ban all guns, but since they can not do that, they do what they can to make it difficult to get a firearm, as difficult as possible. Money is not the issue, but if you also make it expensive to certify the firearms, then less firearms will be certified (the joke being that police can carry "unsafe" firearms not on the certified list).

Malthusian
08-08-2010, 4:02 PM
I don't quite grasp what you are saying when you say " If they could just ban them all, that would be better." Did I missunderstand?

It is not about money, nor is it about safety. It is about harassment and making it difficult to buy a firearm. If they could just ban them all, they would like that better, but otherwise they make it difficult and expensive too.

Read a little closer. I almost read it the same way

Eagle Armory
08-08-2010, 4:47 PM
Good afternoon. I am a new member here. I have a question for the FFL's out there.

There is a particular Beretta PX4 Storm 9mm type F that I really want to buy. According to the DOJ list it is described as :

PX4 Storm Type F / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4" 9mm 12/14/2010


Beretta now has an "Olive Drab" version of the same EXACT gun. As far as I "seem" to be concerned, there is no indication of either the model number or the actual color of this gun on the list. I think this is a big grey area that can be challenged.

The model I want is: JSPX001

If this model can be shipped from a store/owner with 10 round mags, then wouldn't this pistol be California legal?:confused:

Thank you all for your time


It would be a better system and simpler if they listed the actual MFG UPC or Model number(s), instead of the vague description they put out now. Though, I know they are not interested in making it easier on you guys out there.

kemasa
08-08-2010, 5:48 PM
Yes, the process could be better, but in reality the list should be vaporized. If a firearm is unsafe, the manufacturer will be sued out of existence. If it is unsafe, then the police should not be allowed to use it and should not be exempt from the list.

I did update my previous post to make it clearer, btw. Why do you think that ammo tax and the like are popular attacks? The CFLC letter is another example. If a person does not have a FFL, then they can ship all the firearms they want, but FFLs have to get the letter, making it more difficult and causing some FFLs to refuse to ship to CA, just like the anti-gun people want.

THEDUELLIST
08-08-2010, 8:51 PM
It would be a better system and simpler if they listed the actual MFG UPC or Model number(s), instead of the vague description they put out now. Though, I know they are not interested in making it easier on you guys out there.

I would almost hope they wouldn't list the actual mfg. model number. Reason being, I would think that would be a gray area that can be manipulated/exploited (by the buyer).

Example: It does not state on the list that it is a "Black" polymer gun. It only states polymer. So my thing is that as long as it does not specify the color of the polymer, then it should not make a difference if it is Olive Drab in color. Furthermore, no mfg. model number is indicated on the list............ Therefor (even though Beretta does have different model numbers for the black and olive drab) it should make no difference what the color is........ It's the same freekin gun!

kemasa
08-09-2010, 9:34 AM
That is fine for the buyer, but not so good for the FFL.

If the list was what it should be to ensure that only firearms are transferred which are on the list, then the make, model and serial number range would be listed, as well as the UPC code and other information. Remember, not all firearms are transferred with the original box/cases, so the firearm has to have enough information on it in order to determine if it is on the list.

But, the reality is that the list is just pure harassment and needs to go away. In the meantime, the police should be limited to the exact models on the list.

Eagle Armory
08-09-2010, 10:31 AM
That is fine for the buyer, but not so good for the FFL.

If the list was what it should be to ensure that only firearms are transferred which are on the list, then the make, model and serial number range would be listed, as well as the UPC code and other information. Remember, not all firearms are transferred with the original box/cases, so the firearm has to have enough information on it in order to determine if it is on the list.

But, the reality is that the list is just pure harassment and needs to go away. In the meantime, the police should be limited to the exact models on the list.

My thoughts exactly.

painkiller
08-27-2010, 9:42 PM
glad i have my od green usp,non roster of course....eat that doj