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mayo 111
08-04-2010, 12:02 AM
hey everybody, im new here.. i was recommended this forum because i had a question about some gun laws here in the bay area. so i searched and searched and could not find the answer to my question.. So im gonna post here

my question is could i legally carry a gun concealed without a license in my family's privately owned business in san francisco?

because i can do that in my home right?

Uriah02
08-04-2010, 12:06 AM
I would vote no, but I don't really have anything to site. At every local gun shop I've been to though most of the employees are packing hot, so that might not be an issue as long as you stay on your private property...

Richie Caketown
08-04-2010, 12:50 AM
in most places you can with the owners permission considering it is private property but the problem is that you are in San fransisco and if I remember correctly it also comes down to the type of property they owner whether its subsidized or not .... but hey im not a lawyer so im not given advice that should be taken into consideration

JDoe
08-04-2010, 1:37 AM
my question is could i legally carry a gun concealed without a license in my family's privately owned business in san francisco?

Are you legally an owner or part owner of the business or are you solely an employee?

SJgunguy24
08-04-2010, 1:46 AM
Yes, perfectly legal if that is your place of business and you are not a prohibited person.

12026. (a) Section 12025 shall not apply to or affect any citizen of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, who carries, either openly or concealed, anywhere within the citizen's or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(b) No permit or license to purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry, either openly or concealed, shall be required of any citizen of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, to purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry, either openly or concealed, a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person within the citizen's or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident. (c) Nothing in this section shall be construed as affecting the application of Section 12031.

E Pluribus Unum
08-04-2010, 2:10 AM
I would say NO.

As soon as the doors are open to the public, it is a "public area" and the exemption for carrying concealed in 12026 would apply to the OWNER of the business.


Your family member can give you permission to carry concealed in his home... but not in his business that is open to the public.

That is, at least, how I read the law... and I am NOT an attorney and this is NOT legal advise.

mcholak
08-04-2010, 5:24 AM
I don't have a "legal" opinion, I just remember one of the instructors in my first CCW class telling us stories about how people with CCW's have been harassed by the SFPD. Even reserve cops. In your business versus on the street are very different but you are definitely not in a gun friendly place. I would say you need to weigh the risks versus the potential rewards before making that decision.

AJAX22
08-04-2010, 5:36 AM
Concealed means concealed... If I had the owners permission I would do it.

Crom
08-04-2010, 5:56 AM
SJgunguy24 got it right. Inside the business it's okay. It's like your residence, inside okay, not okay in the front yard unless it's fenced in.

paul0660
08-04-2010, 6:50 AM
Pluribus, businesses are mentioned separate from private property, so in my opinion you are incorrect as far as the public access aspect is concerned.

mcholak, I don't believe any of those stories, despite their popularity.

The law is not clear......does it mean just owners or owners and employees.......does the other language in 12031 about "having" a loaded gun in a business include "carrying"?

I think Ajax is right, but you have to have the correct mindset. The fewer people who know, the better, and you have that gun to prevent injury or death, not just property.

hoffmang
08-04-2010, 8:15 AM
The law was specifically changed to allow those with permission of the owner to conceal while at work. See http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Unlicensed_Concealed_Carry

-Gene

SJgunguy24
08-04-2010, 8:17 AM
Pluribus, businesses are mentioned separate from private property, so in my opinion you are incorrect as far as the public access aspect is concerned.

mcholak, I don't believe any of those stories, despite their popularity.

The law is not clear......does it mean just owners or owners and employees.......does the other language in 12031 about "having" a loaded gun in a business include "carrying"?

I think Ajax is right, but you have to have the correct mindset. The fewer people who know, the better, and you have that gun to prevent injury or death, not just property.

The owner can give permission for employees to carry. I did it everyday, it wasn't required but encouraged.

Libertarian777
08-04-2010, 6:32 PM
Yes, perfectly legal if that is your place of business and you are not a prohibited person.

12026. (a) Section 12025 shall not apply to or affect any citizen of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, who carries, either openly or concealed, anywhere within the citizen's or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(b) No permit or license to purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry, either openly or concealed, shall be required of any citizen of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, to purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry, either openly or concealed, a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person within the citizen's or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident. (c) Nothing in this section shall be construed as affecting the application of Section 12031.

I'm not a lawyer either, and while this section seems to say its ok, don't forget that SF, being anti-gun, could conceivably revoke / not renew the business license your family has if they had significant issues with you carrying a firearm.

However, since you can legally carry concealed within your place of business, the question is, how would SF know? They can't send the police in to search you or your place without a warrant.

hoffmang
08-04-2010, 8:02 PM
I'm not a lawyer either, and while this section seems to say its ok, don't forget that SF, being anti-gun, could conceivably revoke / not renew the business license your family has if they had significant issues with you carrying a firearm.

OMFG CGF would love that case!

-Gene

SJgunguy24
08-04-2010, 10:58 PM
I'm not a lawyer either, and while this section seems to say its ok, don't forget that SF, being anti-gun, could conceivably revoke / not renew the business license your family has if they had significant issues with you carrying a firearm.
However, since you can legally carry concealed within your place of business, the question is, how would SF know? They can't send the police in to search you or your place without a warrant.


Revoke a business license do to personal feelings and or an unconstitutional law, can you say gettin' paid'?



OMFG CGF would love that case!

-Gene

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Window_Seat
08-04-2010, 11:01 PM
I could see GN and friends pulling such shenanigans. :D

Erik.