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Shoot-it
08-02-2010, 4:44 PM
Make sure to have written permission if on private property.I was hog hunting on a ranch and I got checked by 2 wardens.I had all the paper work.One was a liitle bit of a jerk he kept asking me if I shot anything like he was trying to trip me up or something.He even wanted to look at my knife to see if it was bloody.It was clean as can be I never used it.

He searched my back pack to and that was over the top I think.

All I can say the experience left a bad taste in my mouth.

spectr17
08-02-2010, 4:58 PM
Printable trespass permission slips. Print some, put them in a zip lock bag and stuff them in your pack and glove compartment, it can save you from a spendy ticket. It also shows your are a responsible hunter when you meet a rancher or farmer and ask for permission.

http://www.jesseshunting.com/permission-slip-1.pdf

LloydXmas250
08-02-2010, 6:46 PM
I'm not good with knowledge on laws but can they search your backpack without a warrant? Probably can, but it just pisses me off. It seems like they act like you're a criminal, not a hunter, and you just didn't get caught that time.

AAShooter
08-02-2010, 7:26 PM
I'm not good with knowledge on laws but can they search your backpack without a warrant? Probably can, but it just pisses me off. It seems like they act like you're a criminal, not a hunter, and you just didn't get caught that time.

Game Warden's have a broader power to inspect vehicles and bags, etc. than the average LEO.

Hunt
08-02-2010, 7:28 PM
I'm not good with knowledge on laws but can they search your backpack without a warrant? Probably can, but it just pisses me off. It seems like they act like you're a criminal, not a hunter, and you just didn't get caught that time.

I have heard Wardens have special "inspection" rights that exempt them from the 4th ammendment. At least that is what the hunter safety course instructor told us.

Shoot-it
08-02-2010, 7:31 PM
Thanks for understanding my point of view .
Maybe he was just doing his job but I was never treated like this before .To me they wanted to write me up real bad I don't know why but I had that feeling.

Anyway at least now they both know who I am and what my truck looks like so I should be good to go.

rooster85
08-02-2010, 7:43 PM
If you were on private land hunting with landowner permission, does the warden also need written permission? as long as ive been in california ive hunted our ranch and friends ranches without ever running into a warden.

ScottB
08-02-2010, 7:47 PM
Nobody gets an exemption to violate someone's Constitutional rights. Warden's rely on a "diminished expectation of privacy" as cover for questionable stops and searches. They just got spanked by a state appeals court for stopping cars to search for lobsters without sufficient probable cause.

California vs. Maikhaio (http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/2010/ca-lobster.pdf)

bigboarstopper
08-02-2010, 7:48 PM
I tell ya but nobody believes me.

taperxz
08-03-2010, 7:52 AM
I have heard Wardens have special "inspection" rights that exempt them from the 4th ammendment. At least that is what the hunter safety course instructor told us.

NO THEY DON'T!! Here is the trick, when they approach you and ask you what you are doing, Don't tell them!!! If you tell them you are hunting, they then have the right to ask for a license, tag, DL, rifle inspection, shotgun inspection, what type of ammo inspection, oh and guess what? All that crap is in your back pack and you just opened it up for him. If you have not harvested or shot at game he has no reason to ask for anything from you.

Warden asks you what you are doing, "well sir i am taking a hike right now" You do not have to tell him why you are hiking. Until you have taken a shot at or harvested an animal, the warden can not prove you are hunting.

For whatever reason, hunters seem to set themselves up for a search. Be polite and courteous but don't flap you gums. This is a lot harder for people fishing. If a warden glassses you with a fishing pole, he already has probable cause to ask for certain licenses, take ect. When hunting the warden has to actually see the take/attempt, or admission of hunting. JMO

AAShooter
08-03-2010, 7:58 AM
If you were on private land hunting with landowner permission, does the warden also need written permission? as long as ive been in california ive hunted our ranch and friends ranches without ever running into a warden.

The problem is that the warden's need to figure out if you are the landowner, guest or trespassing. They often know the landowner and are invited onto the landowner's land to enforce hunting laws. They often get in a situation where a neighbor will call and say someone is trespassing on the land and the warden has to go make a judgment call based on the information he gets from you.

If you want to make sure it is not a problem, get written permission. You got to remember LEOs get lied to ever day by "law-abiding" folks.

AAShooter
08-03-2010, 8:04 AM
NO THEY DON'T!! Here is the trick, when they approach you and ask you what you are doing, Don't tell them!!! If you tell them you are hunting, they then have the right to ask for a license, tag, DL, rifle inspection, shotgun inspection, what type of ammo inspection, oh and guess what? All that crap is in your back pack and you just opened it up for him. If you have not harvested or shot at game he has no reason to ask for anything from you.

Warden asks you what you are doing, "well sir i am taking a hike right now" You do not have to tell him why you are hiking. Until you have taken a shot at or harvested an animal, the warden can not prove you are hunting.

For whatever reason, hunters seem to set themselves up for a search. Be polite and courteous but don't flap you gums. This is a lot harder for people fishing. If a warden glassses you with a fishing pole, he already has probable cause to ask for certain licenses, take ect. When hunting the warden has to actually see the take/attempt, or admission of hunting. JMO

I don't believe that is entirely true. If you are hiking with a "means of take", then the warden in justified. Hunting is not limited to the act of taking a shot or harvesting.

Shoot-it
08-03-2010, 10:39 AM
Why do they now want to see if the knife is clean do they think I have poached animals and I am hiding them.

Well they don't know I lick all my knifes clean when I am done with them LOL.

Is it protocol to treat all hunters like poachers now???

CL&RR
08-03-2010, 11:05 AM
I was hunting on a friends land with written permission on me. I have to park on a public road and hike in a bout 3/4 of a mile to get into his property. The other day after a few hours of archery hunting I walk back to my car and there's Hwy Patrol Officer parked next to my truck. He asked if I had permissions to enter the land as signs were posted. I whipped out the permission slipped and he was very nice about it and was on his way. I guess it all depends on where you are and who you encounter that day.

VaderSpade
08-03-2010, 12:15 PM
I don't believe that is entirely true. If you are hiking with a "means of take", then the warden in justified. Hunting is not limited to the act of taking a shot or harvesting.

They lost that one in court "man in the woods with a gun". You have a right to keep and bear arms, they can not assume your hunting, but if you tell them you are they will bend you over.

F&G was writing tickets if you were in a hunting zone without a tag. I live in one zone but hunt in another. I was stopped going home, and the warden started writing me a ticket for not having a tag. I ask him what the hell he was doing. He said writing you a ticket for hunting without a tag for this zone.
I told him no way, you guys lost that one. He closed his book and let me go. Two weeks later a cousin got a ticket for the same thing and paid an $850.00 fine. They still try to enforce laws that are no longer on the books. KNOW your rights.

professionalcoyotehunter
08-03-2010, 12:23 PM
Remember tags are not needed for hunting coyotes so if they ask where is your tag just say you are hunting coyotes if you are in a zone where deer season is open.

Divernhunter
08-03-2010, 1:10 PM
Or just tell them you were going or coming back from plinking/target shooting. It is best to have a target or a soda can around.

IF someone calls about tresspassing it will usually be a sheriff or CHP that comes out not a game warden.

professionalcoyotehunter
08-03-2010, 1:21 PM
I wonder how they can tell you are not a relative unless you tell them.

ScottB
08-03-2010, 1:42 PM
Why all these sly little evasions? There seems to be a bias around here for a sort of weasely yet confrontative posture. I see it crop up on all kinds of topics. An air of deceit will only raise suspicions and poison an encounter that might have turned out differently. I have noted before I think some guys here put out way too much attitude.

I have been hunting and fishing more years than I care to admit to and I have never had a negative experience with a warden in the field - and I have had my share of encounters - with CA and USFWS wardens, Border patrol, various LEOs and once even the DEA and also including the D-17 wardens and MNP Rangers - whom I had no issues with

I'm sure some wardens are jerks or maybe they are just having a bad day, Just as I am sure there are a-hole hunters (I have met some of those) but whenever I hear these stories about some a-hole warden, I also wonder about the person writing it. Did he contribute to the bad encounter? What was his appearance? His demeanor? How did he greet the warden? Did he conspicuously unload and shoulder his weapon before approaching? (remember these guys work without backup and have no idea what kind of person you are or who else might be in the bushes) Were the answers to the warden's questions direct, polite and were they consistent with the observable facts?

Toby, if you hunt D-17 and the MNP, you might consider volunteering for some of the drinker and guzzler repair events held by Water for Wildlife or Society for the Conservation of Bighorn Sheep (SCBS). These are sanctioned by DFG and you can get to know the wardens outside of a license check. (They are fun and added bonus, the DFG gets additional federal funding based on reported volunteer man hours, so the more the merrier)

VaderSpade
08-03-2010, 2:06 PM
^^^" I have never had a negative experience with a warden in the field"^^^

I have never had a positive one. Starting at age 12 when I ran a little trap line for muskrats. This one warden would stop me every time he saw me. I never knew what he was fishing for, but he would check all my traps, and spend lots of time trying to get something on me.
He later lost his job for a peeping tom incident, and then was convicted for sex with a minor under 12. I shutter to think what he was really after all those years ago.
O and he's free now and is a warden in AZ.

VaderSpade
08-03-2010, 2:12 PM
"It is protocol to treat all hunters like poachers now."

This is the truth and why I quit trying to cooperate. They will take whatever you say twist it and use it against you.

OffGrid
08-03-2010, 2:24 PM
What the OP was talking about was while on private property.

Sure you can say ďI am target shooting, coyote hunting, hiking with a gun etc.Ē But if you are stopped by the Warden, CHP, Sheriff while on private property, with a gun, without permission. You are trespassing and I believe there is a charge of ďtrespassing with a weaponĒ or something along those lines. So make sure you have and can prove permission to be there.

All I know for sure is I get too damn many guys thinking they can do what ever the hell they want on my property. Iíd be happy to have the warden question some of the jackasses I have to deal with.

OP, thank you for the heads up. It could save someone some hassle from an overzealous or possible ego inflated warden.

VaderSpade
08-03-2010, 3:00 PM
Trespassing with intent to kill a mammal, I believe is the charge. Maybe a bird if it's bird season, But I've been charged with the former twice. Both times it was thrown out when I proved the land was timber land and not the ranchers land as HE claimed. This guy didn't want anyone even close to his place and would lie to the wardens to get you hassled. I have filed complaints, and have some great video from a hidden camera as the Rancher screams at me that I'm trespassing. "Right here" I say, "YES THIS IS MY PROPERTY" says the rancher. "Bull$*it this is Roseburg" "well that's mine over there" "well we're not talking about over there now are we" It was a fun video to make.
People post land that is NOT theirs all the time. Get a county property map.

VaderSpade
08-03-2010, 3:04 PM
I just have 60 acres but if you know me you can hunt and fish on my place (great catfishing). I decided I'm not going to be the land owner with a stick up my *$$, and it has paid off. Everybody watches out for everybody up here.

VaderSpade
08-03-2010, 3:43 PM
In the other case a video was also one of the deciding factors. I knew the warden was lying, but they would not give me a copy of his report. They told me I hadn’t been charged yet and that if I would take a values class, the charges would be dropped. Since no charges were filed I was not entitled to a copy of the report. I had to hire an attorney to get them to file the charges and get a copy of the report which was full of lies (rumors are the warden is sleeping with the ranch manger).
One lie I was able to prove was where the warden said my gate was WIDE open and he drove his marked patrol vehicle to my house (otherwise he had no right to be there).
I told his boss he was lying and that I wanted to file a complaint. “I stand behind my officers 100% and we will pursue perjury charges if you go forward with your complaint!” was his answer.
Well, I filed the complaint (it took forever to get a form) and he called me again pissed saying they would have me for perjury, the intimidation was blatant.
When I said guess what, I have a security video of your officer jumping my gate and walking the 600 feet to my house, his tone changed.
In the end they said the warden had made a MISTAKE on the report. They then doctored the report to cover their *****es, and dropped all charges.
The complaint was never acted on but I know the warden got his *SS in a sling.

pieeater
08-03-2010, 4:02 PM
Id post that all ive ever had is positive encounters. But im sure it would jinx me and id get jacked up on a dozen charges by the weekend. lol

toby
08-03-2010, 4:12 PM
Wow some of the things being said just are not true A warden has the right to ask,check search or whatever he or she wants if you are armed at any given time. If you don't think so? just wait! if you have a gun you are hunting according to them and if you lie and they find suspicion to search or check anyway....GOOD LUCK!

OffGrid
08-03-2010, 4:13 PM
I would love to be able to trust folks but after losing a nice little Angus bull calf to a negligent neighbor.

Had one jackass stop on the road and start shooting squirrels. Well he didnít see us behind a small grove of trees. But when I heard the shots, saw him and the puff of dust between us. He got the message real fast that I wasnít happy and was better armed.

Thank God for that two part epoxy or I would go broke replacing water troughs from ding dongs who think this is a park to let their kids run around and shoot stuff up.

Add to that the *** hats who want to hunt animals out of season, non-legal animals (little spike bucks), dump trash and think they can drive wherever they want on the grass I need to feed my cattle.

Screw it, itís not worth the headache. It turns out to be a matter of the safety, security and well being of my family.

If you donít have permission to be on my property, expect to be confronted by me the sheriff and the DFG and have every charge pressed against them that I can.

Damn, now im all excited I need a beer and a hug.

pieeater
08-03-2010, 4:19 PM
dump trash

We caught 2 guys dumping trash once, made them pick it up at gunpoint. Funtimes!!!

taperxz
08-03-2010, 4:25 PM
Wow some of the things being said just are not true A warden has the right to ask,check search or whatever he or she wants if you are armed at any given time. If you don't think so? just wait! if you have a gun you are hunting according to them and if you lie and they find suspicion to search or check anyway....GOOD LUCK!

MAJOR FUD!! A game warden has no more powers than any other LEO in the state!!

taperxz
08-03-2010, 4:28 PM
To put this FUD to rest, Would someone show me somewhere, anywhere, where there is documentation stating that a game warden has more authority than any LEO. Please show me where it states that a game warden can search you or places where another LEO's can't. I am really looking forward to seeing this documentation. OR is it all made up out of fear?

taperxz
08-03-2010, 4:30 PM
I don't care what anyone says! If he searched you or your vehicle he had to have probable cause or you gave him permission!

remsenlab
08-03-2010, 4:33 PM
I would love to be able to trust folks but after losing a nice little Angus bull calf to a negligent neighbor.

Had one jackass stop on the road and start shooting squirrels. Well he didnít see us behind a small grove of trees. But when I heard the shots, saw him and the puff of dust between us. He got the message real fast that I wasnít happy and was better armed.

Thank God for that two part epoxy or I would go broke replacing water troughs from ding dongs who think this is a park to let their kids run around and shoot stuff up.

Add to that the *** hats who want to hunt animals out of season, non-legal animals (little spike bucks), dump trash and think they can drive wherever they want on the grass I need to feed my cattle.

Screw it, itís not worth the headache. It turns out to be a matter of the safety, security and well being of my family.

If you donít have permission to be on my property, expect to be confronted by me the sheriff and the DFG and have every charge pressed against them that I can.

Damn, now im all excited I need a beer and a hug.

Amen to that. I have been stopped by DFG a few times on private land and I appreciate the work they do. I'm diligent in making sure that I hunt legally and responsibly and get really pissed off when I see the (all too many) jerks who can't be bothered by rules. So while I'd prefer to never have any interactions with law enforcement, when it comes to hunting I'm more than happy to see the DFG ensuring that the people who are hunting on private land are doing it with proper permission and in compliance with the rules.

ScottB
08-03-2010, 4:37 PM
Here is a 1984 1st District Court of Appeals ruling that addresses implied consent and expectations of privacy while hunting.

Betchart v. Department of Fish and Game (http://www.lawlink.com/research/caselevel3/61123)

Here is a portion of the ruling:

Hunters are required to be licensed. By choosing to engage in this highly regulated activity, there is a fundamental premise that there is an implied consent to effective supervision and inspection as directed by statute.

Wild game hunting is not a commercial enterprise (as are the liquor and firearms industries). Nevertheless, hunting takes place in "open fields" whether publicly or privately owned; this is a convincing factor that plaintiff's expectation of privacy while hunting is unreasonable. [7] Open field sites are regarded as so public in nature that searches are justifiable without any particular showing of cause or exigency. (People v. Dumas (1973) 9 Cal.3d 871, 882 & fn. 10 [109 Cal.Rptr. 304, 512 P.2d 1208].) "This hierarchy of protection arises not from the application of differing constitutional standards to various locales, but rather from an application of a single standard of reasonableness to all places in accordance with a fundamental understanding that a particular intrusion into one domain of human existence [such as the home] seriously threatens personal security, while the same intrusion into another domain does not." (Id, at pp. 882-883; see also Joseph v. Masonite Corp. (1983) 148 Cal.App.3d 6, 11-12 [195 Cal.Rptr. 629].)

The entries by the wardens are for the purpose of regulating and managing a state-owned resource. Thus, the circumstances are even more compelling than the warrantless inspections of privately owned assets authorized in the Biswell line of authority. The Legislature has given Fish and Game supervision over property belonging to the sovereign. [4d] The warrantless entries by authorized fish and game personnel onto open fields constitute only a minimal intrusion into the private use of the property. Such entries are permitted where game is present and hunting occurs. The inspections may not exceed the specific limited purpose of enforcing wild game regulations, absent probable cause. [158 Cal.App.3d 1111]

The judgment is affirmed.

taperxz
08-03-2010, 4:51 PM
Thank you for proving my point. Its like fishing. They still must establish you are actually hunting. For a search to begin you must tell them you are hunting or they must see you hunt.

The inspections may not exceed the specific limited purpose of enforcing wild game regulations, absent probable cause. [158 Cal.App.3d 1111]


This ruling only talks about open fields also. Not vehicles or homes.

toby
08-03-2010, 4:54 PM
RIGHT THERE^^^^^plain and simple

toby
08-03-2010, 4:58 PM
MAJOR FUD!! A game warden has no more powers than any other LEO in the state!!

You will soon learn otherwise by Mr Warden himself someday, sometime ,somewhere,why do you think they carry firearms,? to inforce and uphold the law governed by the states for those who don't wish play by the rules.

taperxz
08-03-2010, 5:02 PM
You will soon learn otherwise by Mr Warden himself someday, sometime ,somewhere,why do you think they carry firearms,? to inforce and uphold the law governed by the states for those who don't wish play by the rules.

My neighbor is a game warden!! ;)

taperxz
08-03-2010, 5:04 PM
RIGHT THERE^^^^^plain and simple

NO its not plain and simple because he left the rest of that out.


The judgment is affirmed.

King, J., and Haning, J., concurred.

?FN 1. All references are to the Fish and Game Code unless otherwise stated.

?FN 2. California Constitution, article I, section 13, states: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable seizures and searches may not be violated; and a warrant may not issue except on probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons and things to be seized."

?FN 3. California Constitution, article I, section 1 (section adopted Nov. 5, 1974), states: "All people are by nature free and independent and have inalienable rights. Among these are enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining safety, happiness, and privacy."

This California constitutional right of privacy "[i]n the search and seizure context ... has never been held to establish a broader protection than that provided by the Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution or article I, section 13 of the California Constitution." (People v. Crowson (1983) 33 Cal.3d 623, 629 [190 Cal.Rptr. 165, 660 P.2d 389].) The principal objective of this section is to prevent "'government and business interests from collecting and stockpiling unnecessary information about us and from misusing information gathered for one purpose in order to serve other purposes or to embarass [sic] us.'" (White v. Davis (1975) 13 Cal.3d 757, 774 [120 Cal.Rptr. 94, 533 P.2d 222].)

^^^^^ this is the part he did not copy and paste^^^^^^

lewdogg21
08-03-2010, 5:13 PM
Can a warden legally cross a locked gate without suspicion of illegal activity?

Such as at a duck club for example if the gate is locked. My belief is that unless he has probable cause he can't but he can wait for you outside of it.

taperxz
08-03-2010, 5:19 PM
My understanding is he can IF he sees you in the act of hunting. However, he is not supposed to interupt your hunt. When duck hunting i see them usually waiting for you to come out so they can inspect your take at the end of the hunt. I think the idea here would be similar to an LEO seeing something that would be regulated and then asking questions. For arguements sake lets say underage drinking and smoking. LEO witnesses this and then affirms and then the ability to cite.

taperxz
08-03-2010, 5:22 PM
In other words if you are hunting, he has the right to see your license and stamps upon demand.

pieeater
08-03-2010, 5:30 PM
Hmmm would all those empty bags of cracked corn and milo in the back of my truck be considered "suspicious" ?


Can a warden legally cross a locked gate without suspicion of illegal activity?

Such as at a duck club for example if the gate is locked. My belief is that unless he has probable cause he can't but he can wait for you outside of it.

taperxz
08-03-2010, 5:31 PM
Hmmm would all those empty bags of cracked corn and milo in the back of my truck be considered "suspicious" ?

And salt licks? Not if you are raising livestock and i do!;)

toby
08-03-2010, 6:08 PM
OK sorry I put in my .02 I'm old and never quite made it around the block, so carry on!

ScottB
08-03-2010, 6:41 PM
taperxz, I don't think it proves your point at all and I didn't leave anything out. I posted a link to the entire opinion. I suggest you read it all, not just the footnotes cited by the judge in support of the ruling Context is everything.

Can a warden legally cross a locked gate without suspicion of illegal activity?

Yes. There is a certain reasonable area around a residence that a farmer has an expectation of privacy, but as that ruling makes clear, open fields, private or otherwise, have no expectation of privacy. Wardens can and do enter private land legally. Game is considered public property.

This is from the same ruling:

The state has the duty to preserve and protect wildlife. California State Department of Fish and Game (Fish and Game) agents may without warrants reasonably enter and patrol private open lands where game is present and hunting occurs to enforce Fish and Game laws. We affirm the declaratory relief judgment.

Plaintiff Joseph C. Betchart is part owner of agricultural range land, and he, his family and guests hunt for deer on the property during deer season. Defendant Richard Macedo and other Fish and Game agents (wardens) routinely patrol the property to enforce provisions of the Fish and Game Code, mostly during deer season, with knowledge that game is present and deer hunting occurs on the property. The wardens have no knowledge of any violation of regulations by plaintiff, his family or guests. The wardens do not have permission to enter the property and have been requested to immediately leave, but have refused to do so until completion of the patrol. Entries are made by way of roads crossing the property; on one occasion a warden on the property climbed over a locked gate to enter other parts of the property.

taperxz
08-03-2010, 6:48 PM
taperxz, I don't think it proves your point at all and I didn't leave anything out. I posted a link to the entire opinion. I suggest you read it all, not just the footnotes cited by the judge in support of the ruling Context is everything.



Yes. There is a certain reasonable area around a residence that a farmer has an expectation of privacy, but as that ruling makes clear, open fields, private or otherwise, have no expectation of privacy. Wardens can and do enter private land legally. Game is considered public property.

This is from the same ruling:

So can any LEO!! My point is that the game warden has no more powers than any other LEO. An LEO is allowed to arrest for F&G violations if they see it or suspect it. All i am saying is that a warden has no more powers than any other LEO.

Shoot-it
08-03-2010, 6:50 PM
Well I told the first warden across the mid canal I was coyote hunting and that when he said he will call another unit to check me out.I yelled across the canal I had written permission from (blank) farms and gave the name.

It seems from what you guys said I gave them the fuel they needed but I was all legal so that why I told the truth.

He did ask for permission to search my back pack and I gave consent but what would have happened if i said no. I wish I would have stuck up more for my rights but at that time I was feeling intimidated .It's easy to say what you would have done on the forum but in real life it's different.

Happy hunting all

taperxz
08-03-2010, 6:52 PM
The section you copied and pasted also explicitly states that the wardens knew that deer hunting was going on. Read what was said carefully.

I own property and a warden IS my neighbor. If he sees me on my ATV with a rifle on it and sees me stringing barbed wire or repairing fence. There is no way he can or would confront me while doing so. He has to have some knowledge that the person or persons are in fact in the act of hunting. In my case he may come down to say hello but they have to have reasonable suspicion to act as they did in what you posted.

taperxz
08-03-2010, 7:05 PM
Well I told the first warden across the mid canal I was coyote hunting and that when he said he will call another unit to check me out.I yelled across the canal I had written permission from (blank) farms and gave the name.

It seems from what you guys said I gave them the fuel they needed but I was all legal so that why I told the truth.

He did ask for permission to search my back pack and I gave consent but what would have happened if i said no. I wish I would have stuck up more for my rights but at that time I was feeling intimidated .It's easy to say what you would have done on the forum but in real life it's different.

Happy hunting all

Be careful with that! In the act of hunting he is allowed to check for type of ammo. (condor range) or in a duck refuge they are allowed to check for how much ammo you have, and check to see what you have harvested.

Again my knowledge goes to only that they have to know you are or were in the act of hunting.

capitol
08-03-2010, 7:08 PM
one day the warden stopped us and asked for our licenses, what we were doing etc.

we talked for a bit and as we drove away my buddy accidentally said, "well ok we'll get out of your hair" (the warden was bald)

it wasn't so funny right then, but it sure was 30 seconds later :D

ke6guj
08-03-2010, 7:09 PM
OK sorry I put in my .02 I'm old and never quite made it around the block, so carry on!

there is nothing wrong with putting your two cents in. Just be sure what you are saying is true and the law, not what you think it is. FUD flows around firearms and hunting like water, and there is a lot of BS spouted off by both sides.

For instance, I know a CA guy who swears it is illegal to carry an unloaded handgun in TX. When questioned if he means with a CCW permit, open carried, etc, he doesn't have any specifics and just repeats that it is illegal to carry an unloaded handgun in TX, that TX law requires you to have it loaded.

Due to all the FUD that flows, those that do know what the law actually means have to correct people, and sometimes feelings get hurt. It isn't personal, just have to have a tough skin when dealing with this. Same with conversations with religion and politics, have to have a tough skin when talking about them, or you'll get your feelings hurt sooner than later.

toby
08-03-2010, 7:27 PM
No feelings hurt on my end, I don't give a rat's *** just stating it seems others know more than I and so I'll leave it at that.... good luck to them.

ScottB
08-03-2010, 9:16 PM
So can any LEO!! My point is that the game warden has no more powers than any other LEO. An LEO is allowed to arrest for F&G violations if they see it or suspect it. All i am saying is that a warden has no more powers than any other LEO.

And I agree. However, they apparently have some latitude in deciding who reasonably appears to be hunting, based on observable facts, and if you have a hunting license on you there is implied consent for more intrusive searches or questioning. The act of holding a hunting liccense appears to differentiate the encounter.

brianinca
08-03-2010, 10:48 PM
Just to throw something else into this stone soup, I know of a case about 6 years ago where a fellow got a ticket from DFG for hunting deer without a tag. He did in fact have a tag for pigs, but it was deer season so he got the ticket. He went in front of the Superior Court judge for this. The assistant DA had his "slam dunk" case setup, and the fellow's defense was "I was pig hunting, with a tag." DA says "there's no pigs up there!" Judge says "sure there are, I've been hunting up there for years!"

Several points arise from this. One, if you get a ticket, you get to see a judge. If you have a case, you will be heard. Two, DA's can be really stupid, if they were GOOD lawyers they would be in private practice. Three, IF you are innocent then do NOT pay the ticket, fight it!

Regards,
Brian in CA

Fireguy
08-04-2010, 1:17 AM
It is not a ticket, it is a summons to appear in court. You don't have the option to just pay the fine. You must appear before a judge in court and plead guilty or not guilty. If you plead not guilty you're schedule for a hearing in about six weeks where they will assign you a court date a couple of months later.

If you plead guilty you will be fined and pay court cost which can 2 x the fine. When you
leave the court you will have to pay all the cost and have a misdemeanor or felony criminal record.
DFG doesn't have infractions it's either a felony or a misdemeanor, it's not like a traffic ticket.

tpuig
08-04-2010, 2:18 AM
DFG does in fact have infractions...
If you look at the DFG Notice to Appear (FG-900), there is a place for the warden to circle whether the citation is a Misdemeanor or an Infraction. This is in the area where the code and section of the violation is written in.


It is not a ticket, it is a summons to appear in court. You don't have the option to just pay the fine. You must appear before a judge in court and plead guilty or not guilty. If you plead not guilty you're schedule for a hearing in about six weeks where they will assign you a court date a couple of months later.

If you plead guilty you will be fined and pay court cost which can 2 x the fine. When you
leave the court you will have to pay all the cost and have a misdemeanor or felony criminal record.
DFG doesn't have infractions it's either a felony or a misdemeanor, it's not like a traffic ticket.

Spyder
08-04-2010, 5:11 PM
I'm not good with knowledge on laws but can they search your backpack without a warrant? Probably can, but it just pisses me off. It seems like they act like you're a criminal, not a hunter, and you just didn't get caught that time.

Fish and Game Code 1006 gives inspection authority for a warden to check out gear, game and places where game could be stored. If you're hunting and have a backpack, you could be storing taken game in it so it is subject to inspection. Same with an ice chest while fishing.

I have heard Wardens have special "inspection" rights that exempt them from the 4th ammendment. At least that is what the hunter safety course instructor told us.

NO government agent is exempt from the 4th Amendment.

DFG does in fact have infractions...
If you look at the DFG Notice to Appear (FG-900), there is a place for the warden to circle whether the citation is a Misdemeanor or an Infraction. This is in the area where the code and section of the violation is written in.

7145 is probably the most common fish and game code violation. Merely fishing without a license.



Also, look at the definition of take, FGC 86. It includes the ATTEMPT to hunt, pursue, catch, capture or kill. That means you don't have to take a shot at a deer to be engaged in "taking" of that deer. Merely pursuing it with a means of take is enough.

portegee
08-09-2010, 12:51 PM
Can a warden legally cross a locked gate without suspicion of illegal activity?

Such as at a duck club for example if the gate is locked. My belief is that unless he has probable cause he can't but he can wait for you outside of it.

If they wanted to it wouldn't be that hard to establish probable cause, " I heard a gun shot go off before/after legal shooting time"
that's all they have to say to come across your gate. One of my hunting partners got a warning written on the back of his lic. for shooting too early even though we hadn't pulled out the ammo yet. I'm not saying all wardens/cops would do this but the probable cause game isn't that hard for them to get by, because at that point it's your word vs. theirs, and they'll win almost every one of those battles.

packnrat
08-09-2010, 11:10 PM
i had a young kid warden (much younger than me) back country dirt logging rd. sure look at my papers, then he said i am going to look at your guns, as he put his body into my truck. sure all in the open NO crimes involved just a VERY rude I am the cop attitude from him, he is right and i am wrong nuf said.

i have no problem helping leo's but when they treat me like dirt and i am just in his way, come on.
if this guy asked me for help some place i just would walk away. we as people do deserve to be treated better.
want to be respected...show some.

now on the other side i have even come across chp dot officer (older guy) i had a good laugh with, (rd side inspection). so not all bad.

Hrod8715
08-10-2010, 9:01 AM
Its always the younger wardens who act that way. The older guys have alway been pretty cool.

paul0660
08-10-2010, 9:33 AM
I know a CA guy who swears it is illegal to carry an unloaded handgun in TX. When questioned if he means with a CCW permit, open carried, etc, he doesn't have any specifics and just repeats that it is illegal to carry an unloaded handgun in TX, that TX law requires you to have it loaded.

......unless in a locked case, right? I think this takes the cake as far as misinformation goes.

Big Jake
08-10-2010, 9:44 AM
......unless in a locked case, right? I think this takes the cake as far as misinformation goes.
Or sheer stupidity!