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Cochise82
08-02-2010, 2:11 PM
I don't have my CCW in California yet, but I was wondering if I would have to notify my employer if I was carrying concealed while at work if they don't address the issue in the employee manual. I know it wouldn't be illegal, but could they fire me if they found out, or can they just as me to no longer bring firearms to the office from that point on?

Let me know what you guys think about this.

Freebird
08-02-2010, 2:16 PM
I don't have my CCW in California yet, but I was wondering if I would have to notify my employer if I was carrying concealed while at work if they don't address the issue in the employee manual. I know it wouldn't be illegal, but could they fire me if they found out, or can they just as me to no longer bring firearms to the office from that point on?

Let me know what you guys think about this.

Not really sure of the legalities of it, but to be on the safe side, I wouldn't without the owner/operator's consent. From what I hear it is a real pain in the rear to get a CCW in california, so i'd check up on that.

Andy Taylor
08-02-2010, 2:21 PM
California is an "At will" employment state so your employer can fire you for whatever they want to as long as it is not for race, creed, color, religion, gender, sexual orientation, and a few other protected things.

That said it is not a crime to carry the gun concealed if you have a CCW and the issueing agency didn't list that as a restriction, or as long as you don't work in a prohibited place such a the secure area of an airport.

Personally I would not ask. I would just do it and keep it concealed. They can't fire you if they don't know about it. Better to lose a job than be killed. Depending on their attitude about guns, they could fire you, or otherwise make your life heck for even asking.

Crom
08-02-2010, 3:11 PM
I think it is very risky to CCW while on the job depending on your individual circumstances of employment. If you have a family to support, it may not be worth the risk if you fear termination if your CCW is discovered. You could always keep your CCW locked up in your vehicle as an alternative.

Fjold
08-02-2010, 3:15 PM
If they don't address it in the employee manual, keep quiet about it and never let them see it.

MasterYong
08-02-2010, 3:25 PM
California is an "At will" employment state so your employer can fire you for whatever they want to as long as it is not for race, creed, color, religion, gender, sexual orientation, and a few other protected things.

That said it is not a crime to carry the gun concealed if you have a CCW and the issueing agency didn't list that as a restriction, or as long as you don't work in a prohibited place such a the secure area of an airport.

Personally I would not ask. I would just do it and keep it concealed. They can't fire you if they don't know about it. Better to lose a job than be killed. Depending on their attitude about guns, they could fire you, or otherwise make your life heck for even asking.

That's a common misconception about "at will".

I deal with a lot of HR issues here at my place of work, and it really isn't true that in CA they can fire you for just about anything they want. If we are detecting a problem with an employee and we suspect we may need to let them go if the problem persists, we have to be sure to document every infraction very, very carefully with witnesses present to ensure the employee doesn't later sue for wrongful termination. Out of several hundred employees we have had more than one (from our early days before we got careful about this stuff) sue us and we had to settle because we'd lose if we didn't.

That being said, if there isn't a zero tolerance policy towards weapons, or firearms in general, at your workplace they can't do anything but ask you not to bring it in again (assuming you aren't on some sort of early-employment probationary period). Once they've asked you not to bring it in again, it is now workplace policy and must be enforced equally with all employees. including management. If they fire you on the first offense, they're ASKING to get sued.

Still, the safest thing to do BY FAR would be to ask for permission Everything I mentioned above would be unpleasant for everyone involved and waste a lot of people's time.

TempleKnight
08-02-2010, 3:30 PM
I was thinking about this while reviewing my companies online coverage of EEO, safety and work place violence. 3 hours of training and they never said that you can't take a licensed gun to work. Shooting team members is discouraged (several conflict resolution techniques are discussed), but it isn't explicitly grounds for dismissal. Knives, on the other hand, are forbidden.

Flopper
08-02-2010, 3:31 PM
If they don't address it in the employee manual, keep quiet about it and never let them see it.

+1.

Concealed means concealed.

POLICESTATE
08-02-2010, 3:41 PM
That's a common misconception about "at will".

I deal with a lot of HR issues here at my place of work, and it really isn't true that in CA they can fire you for just about anything they want. If we are detecting a problem with an employee and we suspect we may need to let them go if the problem persists, we have to be sure to document every infraction very, very carefully with witnesses present to ensure the employee doesn't later sue for wrongful termination. Out of several hundred employees we have had more than one (from our early days before we got careful about this stuff) sue us and we had to settle because we'd lose if we didn't.

That being said, if there isn't a zero tolerance policy towards weapons, or firearms in general, at your workplace they can't do anything but ask you not to bring it in again (assuming you aren't on some sort of early-employment probationary period). Once they've asked you not to bring it in again, it is now workplace policy and must be enforced equally with all employees. including management. If they fire you on the first offense, they're ASKING to get sued.

Still, the safest thing to do BY FAR would be to ask for permission Everything I mentioned above would be unpleasant for everyone involved and waste a lot of people's time.

It varies from company to company, fact is, lawyers don't work for free and most people don't have the kinds of resources (particular when unemployed) to bring a successful lawsuit vs a company. There is plenty you can fire for on a first offense: defiance, insubordination, defacing company property, theft, violence etc... just to name a few with little to no fear of repercussions.

This big cases you hear about that have been pro bono work are serious **** ups with discrimination, sexual harassment, serious unsafe working conditions, with deep pocket companies. The ones where they lawyer knows that a pay off is guaranteed. They certainly don't represent your run-of-the-mill terminations.

But the classic way to "fire" someone these days is simply say you no longer need their services and their position is being eliminated. Then you open up a new position with a different job title and different job description, strip out some of the responsibility to justify less compensation and then hire someone new into it.

Happens all the time in high-tech.

This idea that you have to meticulously document every infraction is not accurate for non-union jobs. Bottom line is, if your employee fails to meet expectations, they're history. Have a little 1on1 with them, do a performance improvement plan and clip.

Just happened to a good friend of mine at a major hardware company a few months ago.

I would not dare to mention anything about bringing any weapons into the workplace where I work, I'd be on the short list in no time. Reputation is very important where I work and if people feel threatened by me I'm toast. Simple as that.

YMMV

Dubious_Beans
08-02-2010, 3:54 PM
California is an "At will" employment state so your employer can fire you for whatever they want to as long as it is not for race, creed, color, religion, gender, sexual orientation, and a few other protected things.

"You can't fire me! I'm high priest of the Order Of The Holy Discharge, and my religion REQUIRES me to carry at all times...." :p

Cochise82
08-02-2010, 3:57 PM
Thank you for all your input. I was thinking that if I did "ask permission" from the owner, that it would be between him and I and that no other employees (especially HR) would have to be aware of it. It would probably be a good idea to get something in writing though, as to protect me from and "issues" that may come up.

The problem would be that if he says no, then I would get fired if I do it anyway. So I guess it would be a gamble of how threatened do I feel at work vs. how much do I like making money. :rolleyes:

stix213
08-02-2010, 4:45 PM
They don't have to give you a reason you were fired. They can eliminate your position, cost cut, etc. They can even just update the employee manual the day they find out you are CCW'ing to ban that practice, and fire you the next day for violating their policy when you didn't notice the update.

OleCuss
08-02-2010, 5:07 PM
Flip side is that when you ask management they just might say, "sure, and if there's a threat I'm coming to your office."

Even in that case, keep it concealed. There are very few if any who need to know you've a firearm.

socal2310
08-02-2010, 6:25 PM
My inclination would be to carefully review the employee handbook and if no mention is made of firearms, keep my mouth shut regarding the issue. If you conscientiously practice deep concealment it will never become an issue and if you don't, you might have a problem even if they agreed to allow you to carry.

Outside of some legal or practical obligation to divulge, concealed means concealed.

Ryan

77bawls
08-02-2010, 7:16 PM
My work place doesn't allow guns. I'm the only one there at night, and there has been people that have came into the building, looking to steal stuff, while I was there. :eek:

JohanD
08-02-2010, 8:36 PM
What if it is not a private employer, but public like a library or park? Can they prohibit your CCW there?

Crom
08-02-2010, 9:24 PM
What if it is not a private employer, but public like a library or park? Can they prohibit your CCW there?

If it is allowed under the law, and there are no provisions in your employee contract or employee handbook then it must be legal.

paul0660
08-02-2010, 9:32 PM
If they don't address it in the employee manual, keep quiet about it and never let them see it.

Don't ask, don't tell, and two more words:

POCKET CARRY.