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rysmithjr
08-02-2010, 12:53 PM
I need a few electrical things done, looking to do it by the book/to code/e-permits.

Add 110v circuit for patio/outside
add two gfci outlets outside on the side & front of house (above circuit).
Add attic fan (same circuit as above?)
Confirm installation to code on 220v a/c line and internal 110v outlet (previously added by tenant).

I live in Atwater Village, at 5 FWY between 134 & 2, between Silverlake/Los Feliz/Glendale.

Rob454
08-02-2010, 3:11 PM
GFCI circuits are used for bathrooms and baths within reach of a sink or tub/shower toilet/kitchen. Only for wet areas where you might drop a hair dryer/electric appliance and may be silly enough to try and grab it.
Running the attic fan off the GFCI circuit shouldn't be done. Not saying you can't do it but you shouldn't

You only need a GFI outlet at the first outlet coming off the main breaker panel. All the other outlets can be normal outlets as long as they are installed AFTER the GFCI. ( save yourself some $$)

rysmithjr
08-03-2010, 1:12 PM
Thanks. I figured "outside" counts as a possible wet area, and planned to use an outdoor gfci outlet. I wasn't planning on putting the attic fan on a gfci outlet, I wouldn't be able to reset it if it ever tripped. I just wanted the attic fan on the same *circuit* not *outlet*.

Lancear15
08-09-2010, 1:14 PM
Thanks. I figured "outside" counts as a possible wet area, and planned to use an outdoor gfci outlet. I wasn't planning on putting the attic fan on a gfci outlet, I wouldn't be able to reset it if it ever tripped. I just wanted the attic fan on the same *circuit* not *outlet*.

Yes, the outside recepts must be GFI protected, whether that be an upstream GFI recept, a GFI breaker, or GFI recept at that location doesn't matter, they must also have a weatherproof cover.

rysmithjr
08-25-2010, 4:02 PM
I have a company coming Friday to estimate the work.

Bump to find a calgun's sparkie looking for a piece of work.

davesAR15
08-27-2010, 1:19 AM
Depending what voltage your new attic fan is- it might need its own circuit.
single phase 120 or 240, and how big (amp wise) make sure you get the right fan.
The (3) receptacles at 120V should be fine- they can put them on a new circuit or branch from existing circuits...unless youre planning to use a heavy loads on these out door circuits. Safe just to put them on a new circuit if you have spare room.
Last time I checked- for residential- GFCI (ones without the rest buttons, but still have GFCI in them) were required for bedrooms as well- fire safety doesnt only involve wet environments. The GFCI was created to stop electrical arcs within the branch- prevent fires. Quick- someone check the latest NEC :)

G17GUY
08-28-2010, 11:22 AM
The GFCI was created to stop electrical arcs within the branch- prevent fires. Quick- someone check the latest NEC :)

GFCI- ground fault circuit interupter.

AFCI- Arc fault circuit interupting breaker.

Ground-Fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI). A device intended
for the protection of personnel that functions to deenergize
a circuit or portion thereof within an established
period of time when a current to ground exceeds the values
established for a Class A device.
FPN: Class A ground-fault circuit interrupters trip when
the current to ground is 6 mA or higher and do not trip
when the current to ground is less than 4 mA. For further
information, see UL 943, Standard for Ground-Fault Circuit
Interrupters.

210.8 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for
Personnel.
FPN: See 215.9 for ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection
for personnel on feeders.
(A) Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and
20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in
(1) through (8) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter
protection for personnel.
(1) Bathrooms
(2) Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor
located at or below grade level not intended as habitable
rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas,
and areas of similar use
(3) Outdoors
Exception to (3): Receptacles that are not readily accessible
and are supplied by a dedicated branch circuit for
electric snow-melting or deicing equipment shall be permitted
to be installed in accordance with 426.28.
(4) Crawl spaces — at or below grade level
(5) Unfinished basements — for purposes of this section,
unfinished basements are defined as portions or areas of
the basement not intended as habitable rooms and limited
to storage areas, work areas, and the like
Exception to (5): A receptacle supplying only a permanently
installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system shall
not be required to have ground-fault circuit-interrupter
protection.
FPN: See 760.41(B) and 760.121(B) for power supply
requirements for fire alarm systems.
Receptacles installed under the exception to
210.8(A)(5) shall not be considered as meeting the
requirements of 210.52(G).
(6) Kitchens — where the receptacles are installed to serve
the countertop surfaces
(7) Laundry, utility, and wet bar sinks — where the receptacles
are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the outside
edge of the sink
(8) Boathouses

210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.
(A) Definition: Arc-Fault Circuit Interrupter (AFCI). A
device intended to provide protection from the effects of
arc faults by recognizing characteristics unique to arcing
and by functioning to de-energize the circuit when an arc
fault is detected.
(B) Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and
20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in
dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms,
parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation
rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas shall be
protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter,
combination-type, installed to provide protection of the
branch circuit.
FPN No. 1: For information on types of arc-fault circuit
interrupters, see UL 1699-1999, Standard for Arc-Fault
Circuit Interrupters.
FPN No. 2: See 11.6.3(5) of NFPA 72®-2007, National
Fire Alarm Code®, for information related to secondary
power supply requirements for smoke alarms installed in
dwelling units.
FPN No. 3: See 760.41(B) and 760.121(B) for powersupply
requirements for fire alarm systems.
Exception No. 1: Where RMC, IMC, EMT or steel armored
cable, Type AC, meeting the requirements of 250.118 using
metal outlet and junction boxes is installed for the portion
of the branch circuit between the branch-circuit overcurrent
device and the first outlet, it shall be permitted to
install a combination AFCI at the first outlet to provide
protection for the remaining portion of the branch circuit.
Exception No. 2: Where a branch circuit to a fire alarm
system installed in accordance with 760.41(B) and
760.121(B) is installed in RMC, IMC, EMT, or steel armored
cable, Type AC, meeting the requirements of
250.118, with metal outlet and junction boxes, AFCI protection
shall be permitted to be omitted.


2008 NEC

Rob454
09-01-2010, 1:51 PM
The GFCI was created to stop electrical arcs within the branch- prevent fires. :)

Since when? GFCI are not designed to stop electrical arcs. its designed to stop electrical flow.

davesAR15
09-02-2010, 5:50 PM
Sorry I meant AFCI- thanks for the correction G17GUY.

I havnt done residential design for quite sometime.

Gotta luv them sparkies! The force is strong in this one...