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rushta
04-25-2006, 4:12 PM
I have searched and am trying to figure out something on SBRs. I am acquiring a "M4 Commando" marked lower from a defense contractor and I would like to slap a 11.5 inch barrel on it. I know that you need an NFA tax stamp for that. My question is assuming the DOJ lists, once it is a registered AW could I fill out NFA paperwork and slap a short upper on it? Or would I be creating something that isn't covered by AW registration?

Stan_Humphries
04-25-2006, 4:17 PM
This does nothing to answer your question, but:

Where are you getting this barrel How much? And what makes you think that the DOJ is going to list your unique lower?

ohsmily
04-25-2006, 4:18 PM
Not in CA.

brando
04-25-2006, 4:24 PM
No NFA weapons in CA, period. I know, it sucks, but it's the law.

glen avon
04-25-2006, 4:25 PM
you can do anything the NFA allows - if your state allows it too.

CA does not. so it is an NFA and a state violation.

so you are SOL.

ohsmily
04-25-2006, 4:34 PM
No NFA weapons in CA, period. I know, it sucks, but it's the law.

Thats not quite right, there Class III weapons owners in this state who have had them for awhile. There are also a few class III dealers.

EBWhite
04-25-2006, 5:05 PM
Let us know about the upper your talking about

50 Freak
04-25-2006, 5:10 PM
Thats not quite right, there Class III weapons owners in this state who have had them for awhile. There are also a few class III dealers.

I don't know of anyone other than manufacters or the movie industry. No private Class IIIs I have heard of in my 18 years of collecting.

Ten Rounder
04-25-2006, 5:21 PM
I don't know of anyone other than manufacters or the movie industry. No private Class IIIs I have heard of in my 18 years of collecting.

Wrong, I have known several in the past, and know of one currently. Maduce, AK's, Ar's and a MP5 and he ain't Hollywood. There here, just nobody talks about them. In Cali I can't even shoot his, would have to go to Neveda to run the fun selector.

xenophobe
04-25-2006, 5:56 PM
I know of two, one is now gone, the other is a private citizen who was grandfathered... There are no 'new' private individuals with CA SBR, MB, DD permits

Josh
04-25-2006, 6:24 PM
I don't know of anyone other than manufacters or the movie industry. No private Class IIIs I have heard of in my 18 years of collecting.

Theyre around, they are just old as dirt. :D

bear308
04-25-2006, 6:36 PM
Theyre around, they are just old as dirt. :D
I know of one that can't be any older than 45.

shopkeep
04-25-2006, 6:48 PM
Supposidly some antique Machine Guns and Short Barreled shotguns that are somewhere around 75+ years old _MIGHT_ still be permitted to be possessed by collectors. I'm sure said collectors would have connections none of us here have.

As far as any modern weaponry (and anything WWI or newer) you're SOL if you're in California. They panic if it even LOOKS like a machine gun and call it an "Assault Weapon".

rushta
04-25-2006, 6:55 PM
Thanks, that answered my question. CMMG is selling refurbished colt commando uppers, but they can also be had with a permanantly attatched 5.5in flash suppressor bringing it out to the legal 16 inches. The lower I don't want to talk about on here until I find out what is happening with the list situation. Hope was also that if I could and my other lower didn't get listed I could slap a commando upper on my CMMG and have that. Oh well. It's not totally unique, but the company said they have one FFL in california and that makes me feel pretty confident that there aren't many around. They also have other models besides the M4 commando.

50 Freak
04-25-2006, 7:01 PM
Theyre around, they are just old as dirt.

Sort of like us grandfathered AW owners in about 50 years. No one "new" in CA will have them and only a handful of us will be left. We'll be a dying breed.

I wonder if my kid's kids will even be allowed to own a bolt action 22 short then?

BigAL
04-25-2006, 7:24 PM
I'm a bit confused. I would think a true Colt "M4 Commando" lower would definitely be select fire (milled and drilled w/ autosear and M16 fire control group). You plan on acquiring one of these from a defense contractor in hopes it will be listed by DOJ?

PIRATE14
04-25-2006, 8:30 PM
I'm a bit confused. I would think a true Colt "M4 Commando" lower would definitely be select fire (milled and drilled w/ autosear and M16 fire control group). You plan on acquiring one of these from a defense contractor in hopes it will be listed by DOJ?

Not always a multi select fire weapon...........:D

tpliquid1
04-26-2006, 9:28 AM
dont tell dont show. ekekke

bwiese
04-26-2006, 10:13 AM
Thanks, that answered my question. CMMG is selling refurbished colt commando uppers, but they can also be had with a permanantly attatched 5.5in flash suppressor bringing it out to the legal 16 inches.

So why not get a 16" bbl and not lose that velocity? Or even a 14.5" bbl + fixed flash hider. 11" barrels are very lame.

The lower I don't want to talk about on here until I find out what is happening with the list situation.

Why does that matter? Really, here's your choice/options:

If your lower is already listed and isn't reg'd as an AW, you're illegal.
If they list and your lower gets listed, you can reg as an AW. (DOJ memo is separate, with separate fight.)
If they list and your lower doesn't get listed, you can't have it as AW.


In fact, at this point, you should announce your oddball off-list lowers - so it won't be in limbo when & if DOJ lists.

Hope was also that if I could and my other lower didn't get listed I could slap a commando upper on my CMMG and have that. Oh well. It's not totally unique, but the company said they have one FFL in california and that makes me feel pretty confident that there aren't many around. They also have other models besides the M4 commando.

There's a good chance small companies, esp those out of business - and who made small runs of a given specific oddball model of lower - are likely to not be listed by DOJ by make/model. For example, they missed ASA's ASA-15 last time around - and that one was selling fairly well.

MicronuT
04-26-2006, 8:35 PM
just to make it clear..
nfa is federal and different than cali law.
your 11.5 is part of some federal restrictions.. and would only be legal if you put a 5.5in flashider on it making the overall length 16" just as the XM177's were originally designed...
these parts you can always get.. they are not illegal to own or possess. but it becomes illegal when a part like this is installed. kinna like the ten round fixed mag thing. your open mag well is illegal, if the pistol grip is "on".

somehow this kills alot more people in this configuration and has nothing to do with the owner..
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/5230/calvin2dq.gif

blkA4alb
04-26-2006, 9:18 PM
just to make it clear..
these parts you can always get.. they are not illegal to own or possess. but it becomes illegal when a part like this is installed.
I don't think you understand the constructive possession law. You can legally own a short barrel for a shotgun IF you do not own a shotgun to put it on, if you own the shotgun, you cannot have the barrel. You can be prosecuted by them saying that you intended to build an illegal weapon and that you have no other useful use for the part. They are illegal to possess if you own the firearm they are designed to be used on.

monkey
04-27-2006, 5:21 PM
I don't think you understand the constructive possession law. You can legally own a short barrel for a shotgun IF you do not own a shotgun to put it on, if you own the shotgun, you cannot have the barrel. You can be prosecuted by them saying that you intended to build an illegal weapon and that you have no other useful use for the part. They are illegal to possess if you own the firearm they are designed to be used on.

California does not have a "Constructive Possession" law, but it does exist at the federal level. For purposes of California law, you can possess the short barrel AND the compatible receiver and not be in violation of a possession law. The state could charge you with "Intent to Manufacture" under those circumstances as it would be pretty easy to show your intent in possessing both short barrel and compatible receiver.

Possessing both short barrel and compatible receiver IS a federal "Constructive Possession" felony however, it is identical in penalty to true "Possession". And there could also be "Intent" charges simultaneously to the CP charge depending on the circumstances, they are separate violations entirely. One's true "intent" has no bearing on constructive possession, prosecutors do not need to prove what you intended to do with the barrel and receiver, only that you possessed both of them simultaneously.