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View Full Version : If you say "Fat chance of gun rights in CA"


Dreaded Claymore
07-31-2010, 6:26 PM
then you need to read this.

http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-n-z/victimaddiction.htm

Kick your victim addiction and step up to the plate!

I'm sick of you guys who talk about California like it's a separate country with no constitution on an island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. This is Calguns.net!

Most of the laws in this state don't make any sense, and not just the ones concerning firearms. The nation's first "three strikes" law was passed here. But durn burn it, the state is still inhabited by humans just like you and me, and this is still America!

The United States wasn't built in a day, and it sure as hell wasn't built by people who grumbled and muttered and kept sitting on their butts with no hope. If backwater colonists can defeat the most powerful military in the world two hundred and thirty years ago, without the aid of any Constitution or Bill of Rights, we sure as heck can change California now that we do have one, as long as we keep hope alive that it's possible.

Are you (wo)men, or mice? Then shut up and fall in!

Legasat
07-31-2010, 6:35 PM
I like their attitude!!!

Lone_Gunman
07-31-2010, 6:35 PM
I was in a gun store today and I said "well, hopefully we wont have to put up with this bullet button crap much longer." The response from the guy behind the counter and the other guy in the shop was pretty much - "It's never gonna happen, California won't ever give up." I just paid for what I was getting and left. Some people don't want to actually do anything in the fight so they just say defeatist things and go on with their day.

sevensix2x51
07-31-2010, 6:37 PM
oh, my bullet buttons already went away. im looking forward to the day i can take off my gripwraps and put my standard grips on!!! its coming, i can smell it. its like smelling the earth before the rain.... i can almost taste it... aww yeah.

hoffmang
07-31-2010, 7:58 PM
I was in a gun store today and I said "well, hopefully we wont have to put up with this bullet button crap much longer." The response from the guy behind the counter and the other guy in the shop was pretty much - "It's never gonna happen, California won't ever give up." I just paid for what I was getting and left. Some people don't want to actually do anything in the fight so they just say defeatist things and go on with their day.

Those were the same guys who used to swear that the bullet button was illegal and we were all going to jail...

-Gene

damon1272
07-31-2010, 8:00 PM
+100 SO TRUE!

FortCourageArmory
07-31-2010, 8:09 PM
I was in a gun store today and I said "well, hopefully we wont have to put up with this bullet button crap much longer." The response from the guy behind the counter and the other guy in the shop was pretty much - "It's never gonna happen, California won't ever give up." I just paid for what I was getting and left. Some people don't want to actually do anything in the fight so they just say defeatist things and go on with their day.

If asked, I tell my customers the exact opposite. I say since we have both Heller and now MacDonald on our side in the court that the fight has swung our way and in the very foreseeable future, we'll be discarding our bullet buttons and breaking our hi-caps out for a real party. Some call me an optomist, others shake their head in disbelief. Whatever...we're going to win.

BluNorthern
07-31-2010, 8:12 PM
Have to admit I get the "we're up against a stacked deck" mentality pretty regularly. Maybe this is my "Hi, my name is ******and I'm a victim addict" moment.

RRangel
07-31-2010, 8:26 PM
If asked, I tell my customers the exact opposite. I say since we have both Heller and now MacDonald on our side in the court that the fight has swung our way and in the very foreseeable future, we'll be discarding our bullet buttons and breaking our hi-caps out for a real party. Some call me an optomist, others shake their head in disbelief. Whatever...we're going to win.

It's more so that you're in the knowledge loop of correct information. Unfortunately there are people out there that have never searched for answers to the issue so what would they really know?

badicedog
07-31-2010, 8:29 PM
I'm counting the hours/days until I can send all my bullet buttons to DOJ with a fat smilie face on the mailer....:43:

jdberger
07-31-2010, 8:46 PM
we.
are.
winning.

Folks are already discounting the opinions of the professional antis. They just ain't buying what they're selling these days. They think they're delusional (and they are).

Witness Paul Helmke (Brady) and the folks at LCAV who've crowed that McDonald was a "win" for them because Justice Alito didn't call up the nation's gun owners and personally hand them an MP5SD.

They're kooks, they're clueless, and everyone knows that they are full of crap.

LCAV couldn't get the city council of Emeryville, who's Chief of Police is firmly in their pocket, to enact LCAV recommended laws. They completely overreacted when CGN suggested a peaceful protest of their celebration dinner (Celebrating 17 Years of Racist Gun Control).

And the hits promise to keep on coming.... :Gene:

To be fair, until the McDonald orals, I didn't see it either.

I was with a couple of Calgunners and we'd just watched the oral arguments in the Supreme Court. We were retrieving our coats and electronics when Paul Helmke bustled in. He loudly proclaimed to someone at the door of the crowded coat check room, "Tell them we're pleased! Tell them that we're really pleased!".

Right there, it dawned on me that those guys don't operate in the same reality as we do. That they're clueless. That we're kicking their asses and they haven't figured it out.

We.
Are.
Winning......

thayne
07-31-2010, 8:54 PM
Ive got my standard mag release button ready to install!

I think most gunnies are so used to losing they dont realize we're winning now.

ojisan
07-31-2010, 9:00 PM
An old fart's view:
Some of us have seen nothing but a constant erosion of our gun rights here in CA over the last 25 years or so.
Some of us have donated to, written letters, voted pro-2A and spent lots of time on Pro-2A activities that resulted in nothing.
Many of us have had our hopes raised, then broken many times.
It's hard to keep trying and giving when you get nothing time after time.
Feinstein, Boxer et all...it's clear the mail box and ballot box is not working.

Most people have no clue how the jury box / courts work, and no clue about how important the recent SCOTUS decisions are, or that there were any decisions at all.
It's amazing how many CGs, our very own, don't read the 2A forum and don't know what is going on.

I find myself feeling cynical, not expecting any real changes, as do many others.

Sad, only 8 of us turned out at a Los Angeles area BBQ to celebrate the 9th Circuit decision to Incorporate.
So few are aware of what is going on.
The world did not seem to care, and maybe they were right, because the 9th backed down from their decision.
Another stunning blow.

However, I do see a chance, a real chance, a real change, this time.
I too babble on about how good it will soon be to those who are unknowing.
They always look at me with disbelief, and often there are nods and winks to each other of "just humor him".
I realize that I sound much too hopeful to them, and I wonder if they are right.
It will take some real success to get people's attitudes to change.
Something significant like shall-issue CCW, end of the AW ban or end of the Roster to make people realize that change is really happening.

Despite my cynicism, I do believe the CGF / CRPA / NRA / 2AF will actually get something done, which is why I do support them.
I think if many were not so jaded, that there would be much more support for the 2A efforts being made now.
A solid win in any area above could result in changed attitudes and lots more support for the Pro-2A efforts.

May victory be ours.

Ksmash01
07-31-2010, 9:06 PM
we.
are.
winning.

Folks are already discounting the opinions of the professional antis. They just ain't buying what they're selling these days. They think they're delusional (and they are).

Witness Paul Helmke (Brady) and the folks at LCAV who've crowed that McDonald was a "win" for them because Justice Alito didn't call up the nation's gun owners and personally hand them an MP5SD.

They're kooks, they're clueless, and everyone knows that they are full of crap.

LCAV couldn't get the city council of Emeryville, who's Chief of Police is firmly in their pocket, to enact LCAV recommended laws. They completely overreacted when CGN suggested a peaceful protest of their celebration dinner (Celebrating 17 Years of Racist Gun Control).
And the hits promise to keep on coming.... :Gene:

To be fair, until the McDonald orals, I didn't see it either.

I was with a couple of Calgunners and we'd just watched the oral arguments in the Supreme Court. We were retrieving our coats and electronics when Paul Helmke bustled in. He loudly proclaimed to someone at the door of the crowded coat check room, "Tell them we're pleased! Tell them that we're really pleased!".

Right there, it dawned on me that those guys don't operate in the same reality as we do. That they're clueless. That we're kicking their asses and they haven't figured it out.

We.
Are.
Winning......

Whatever do you mean sir? It's totally not racist to keep gun stores out of places that are inhabited primarily by minorities.


We all know what happened to Traders in S.L. .......too many Black guys in OaKtOwN pulling off crimes with their (Il)legaly purchased pistols. Yeah, it's for their own good..............Shut down Bullseye C.V. and Irvington Arms, they're too close.

I hope at least 1 person saw the satire.


All joking aside, I am confident in a change in the attitude of 2A advocates that disable their credibility with an "all is lost, we can't win" attitude.

I try to do my part, by arming the public. :cool:

BTW, Traders not selling firearms does NOTHING to either discourage criminals from obtaining firearms, or using them illegally. I do wish they'd get their license back, and be responsible about it this time.

Arondos
07-31-2010, 11:32 PM
I would love to see responsible, competent citizens able to put themselves on even footing with the bad guys.

But it sure seems we have a long uphill battle when the LEO's that can allow people to carry don't see self defense as a valid reason unless there's a credible threat. To me denying a CCW because someone doesn't have a threat made against them is right on par with not bothering to have car insurance because you don't plan on being in an accident...

Kynoch
08-01-2010, 4:56 AM
then you need to read this.

http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-n-z/victimaddiction.htm

Kick your victim addiction and step up to the plate!
So true!

Some people ENJOY being miserable so they can whine...

fnslpmark112
08-01-2010, 5:45 AM
No one has EVER accused me of being a "rose colored glasses" type of a guy. I can usually find the dark cloud in any silver lining. That being said,

I am 100% confident we will win our right to own so-called AWBs, have shall issue CCWs statewide, and eliminate the "high cap" magazine ban.

... Just to mention a few.

VictorFranko
08-01-2010, 6:02 AM
It's going to be a tough row to hoe.
McDonald was only 5-4.
Many in this country and government don't give a damn about the Constitution or our rights, obviously four were sitting on the SCOTUS.
As soon as Obummer grants amnesty, there will be 40, 50, 60 million potential votes against our cause.
Count me in for the fight, but I'm just saying........

Dreaded Claymore
08-01-2010, 7:35 AM
Witness Paul Helmke (Brady) and the folks at LCAV who've crowed that McDonald was a "win" for them because Justice Alito didn't call up the nation's gun owners and personally hand them an MP5SD.

:rofl2:

steel
08-01-2010, 8:08 AM
If asked, I tell my customers the exact opposite. I say since we have both Heller and now MacDonald on our side in the court that the fight has swung our way and in the very foreseeable future, we'll be discarding our bullet buttons and breaking our hi-caps out for a real party. Some call me an optomist, others shake their head in disbelief. Whatever...we're going to win.

I'm with you on this 100%. We're going to see the day (in the not too distant future) when we can enjoy our freedom again.

N6ATF
08-01-2010, 8:34 AM
Witness Paul Helmke (Brady) and the folks at LCAV who've crowed that McDonald was a "win" for them because Justice Alito didn't call up the nation's gun owners and personally hand them an MP5SD.

That was part of the relief requested against a tyrannical government?

http://www.profilebrand.com/funny-pictures/category/cats/712_baby-wants-cat.gif

turbogg
08-01-2010, 12:40 PM
I would love to see responsible, competent citizens able to put themselves on even footing with the bad guys.

But it sure seems we have a long uphill battle when the LEO's that can allow people to carry don't see self defense as a valid reason unless there's a credible threat. To me denying a CCW because someone doesn't have a threat made against them is right on par with not bothering to have car insurance because you don't plan on being in an accident...

Exactly! It's our right to bear arms. But the lib-dems want us disarmed, and feeling like victims, so they can jam the "don't worry, I'm from the gov and I'm here to help" horse cr@* down our throats. There is indeed a growing anger and frustration in America about all of this! It's about time!

Freagan
08-01-2010, 3:25 PM
I think by the time we finally get to remove the bullet buttons and finally are allowed to acquire hi-cap mags, most of us won't be able to afford enough ammo to appreciate it :(

Kynoch
08-01-2010, 5:56 PM
Exactly! It's our right to bear arms. But the lib-dems want us disarmed, and feeling like victims, so they can jam the "don't worry, I'm from the gov and I'm here to help" horse cr@* down our throats. There is indeed a growing anger and frustration in America about all of this! It's about time!
The knee-jerk response of spewing sewage like "lib-dems" does nothing but turn people off. Sure it makes some feel good to make/read such comments but in the end it turns off a heck of a lot more people.

Plenty of pro-gun liberal Democrats out there. You're doing the pro-gun camp a disservice by making such comments.

J.D.Allen
08-01-2010, 8:18 PM
No one has EVER accused me of being a "rose colored glasses" type of a guy. I can usually find the dark cloud in any silver lining. That being said,

I am 100% confident we will win our right to own so-called AWBs, have shall issue CCWs statewide, and eliminate the "high cap" magazine ban.

... Just to mention a few.

Don't forget CCW reciprocity, or shall issue for out of state residents...:D

Kynoch
08-01-2010, 11:15 PM
we.
are.
winning.

Folks are already discounting the opinions of the professional antis. They just ain't buying what they're selling these days. They think they're delusional (and they are).

Witness Paul Helmke (Brady) and the folks at LCAV who've crowed that McDonald was a "win" for them because Justice Alito didn't call up the nation's gun owners and personally hand them an MP5SD.

They're kooks, they're clueless, and everyone knows that they are full of crap.

LCAV couldn't get the city council of Emeryville, who's Chief of Police is firmly in their pocket, to enact LCAV recommended laws. They completely overreacted when CGN suggested a peaceful protest of their celebration dinner (Celebrating 17 Years of Racist Gun Control).

And the hits promise to keep on coming.... :Gene:

To be fair, until the McDonald orals, I didn't see it either.

I was with a couple of Calgunners and we'd just watched the oral arguments in the Supreme Court. We were retrieving our coats and electronics when Paul Helmke bustled in. He loudly proclaimed to someone at the door of the crowded coat check room, "Tell them we're pleased! Tell them that we're really pleased!".

Right there, it dawned on me that those guys don't operate in the same reality as we do. That they're clueless. That we're kicking their asses and they haven't figured it out.

We.
Are.
Winning......
Who makes/made that sexy revolver in your avatar?

jdberger
08-01-2010, 11:36 PM
Who makes/made that sexy revolver in your avatar?

Not a clue. It's part of an Oleg Volk poster.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k238/iceracerx/GUNS/20SHOTREVLOVER-1.jpg

ETA: Google is my friend. (http://www.google.com/search?q=20+shot+revolver&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1)

It's a Lefaucheux (http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=315).

curtisfong
08-02-2010, 12:22 AM
McDonald was only 5-4.


It was 5-4 for due process vs PorI.

It was 9-0 for incorporation.

Uriah02
08-02-2010, 12:41 AM
I continue to hope, but based on many of the non-calguner type attitudes I see and hear I think the state will go bankrupt and anarchy will loom before PRK becomes a free state.

Fyathyrio
08-02-2010, 1:40 AM
Before the Navy sent me to San Diego, I was stationed near Memphis, TN and part of a large Jeep club with many gun enthusiasts. If you think apathy in this state is bad, try the parts of the nation where it's currently relatively easy to get guns. I did a nice summary of Heller, McDonald, the civil rights aspects and cases going forward on their forum and only got two replies...both from peeps that used to live in CA. They just don't see it as a problem, and have accepted the small erosions in the right they've had to face as acceptable. I guess once it's harder to get guns then beer they may notice.

Wherryj
08-02-2010, 8:43 AM
then you need to read this.

http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-n-z/victimaddiction.htm

Kick your victim addiction and step up to the plate!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreaded Claymore View Post
I'm sick of you guys who talk about California like it's a separate country with no constitution on an island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. This is Calguns.net!

Most of the laws in this state don't make any sense, and not just the ones concerning firearms. The nation's first "three strikes" law was passed here. But durn burn it, the state is still inhabited by humans just like you and me, and this is still America!

The United States wasn't built in a day, and it sure as hell wasn't built by people who grumbled and muttered and kept sitting on their butts with no hope. If backwater colonists can defeat the most powerful military in the world two hundred and thirty years ago, without the aid of any Constitution or Bill of Rights, we sure as heck can change California now that we do have one, as long as we keep hope alive that it's possible.

Are you (wo)men, or mice? Then shut up and fall in!


Kalifornia just THINKS that it is an island with no Constitution. Unfortunately our Pols have the heavily ingrained...thus the heavy lifting involved to change things.

Kynoch
08-02-2010, 12:31 PM
I continue to hope, but based on many of the non-calguner type attitudes I see and hear I think the state will go bankrupt and anarchy will loom before PRK becomes a free state.

LOL!! :rolleyes:

CAL.BAR
08-02-2010, 1:36 PM
No one has EVER accused me of being a "rose colored glasses" type of a guy. I can usually find the dark cloud in any silver lining. That being said,

I am 100% confident we will win our right to own so-called AWBs, have shall issue CCWs statewide, and eliminate the "high cap" magazine ban.

... Just to mention a few.

See this is where "being in the know" can hurt you. As a 16 yr criminal defense atty, I am WELL versed in the actual court cases involved and our "progress" of late. Unfortunately, NOTHING mentioning in ANY ruling by ANY court STATE or FEDERAL even comes close to saying that states can't put "reasonable" regulations on rifles (i.e. AW's). And California maintains that it is doing just that. . . putting a "reasonable" regulation on AW's. Well w/i the state's purview. Keep those bullet buttons handy! You're children and GRANDCHILDREN are going to need them in CA. (hate to be the bearer of reality)

thayne
08-02-2010, 2:04 PM
See this is where "being in the know" can hurt you. As a 16 yr criminal defense atty, I am WELL versed in the actual court cases involved and our "progress" of late. Unfortunately, NOTHING mentioning in ANY ruling by ANY court STATE or FEDERAL even comes close to saying that states can't put "reasonable" regulations on rifles (i.e. AW's). And California maintains that it is doing just that. . . putting a "reasonable" regulation on AW's. Well w/i the state's purview. Keep those bullet buttons handy! You're children and GRANDCHILDREN are going to need them in CA. (hate to be the bearer of reality)

Militia weapons, IE AW's are specifically protected in the constitution. They are also a class of weapons commonly used in other states. There's no way the AW ban could pass strict scrutiny.

jdberger
08-02-2010, 2:06 PM
It was 5-4 for due process vs PorI.

It was 9-0 for incorporation.

This is incorrect.

It was:
4 for incorporation thru DB
1 for incorporation thru PorI
4 against incorporation.

They plurality took it.

I believe you are referring to the Heller decision in which all 9 justices agreed that the Second Amendment referenced an individual, however, only 5 thought that DC violated that right.

radioburning
08-02-2010, 2:07 PM
The way I see it, it's a never ending battle. We'll win some, and we'll lose some. What counts is how hard we fight, and how smart we fight. Defending our rights from anti-Americans(that's right, I said it) will never end.

Sure seems like they've been getting the business end of the CGF boot lately though.:43:

Secret
08-02-2010, 2:11 PM
It's going to be a tough row to hoe.
McDonald was only 5-4.
Many in this country and government don't give a damn about the Constitution or our rights, obviously four were sitting on the SCOTUS.
As soon as Obummer grants amnesty, there will be 40, 50, 60 million potential votes against our cause.
Count me in for the fight, but I'm just saying........

holy ****, opened my eyes :eek:

POLICESTATE
08-02-2010, 2:43 PM
holy ****, opened my eyes :eek:

What do you see?

ZX-10R
08-02-2010, 3:26 PM
Democrats in CA suck. I do not pity CA at all and am quite happy when CA suffers...I am happy because the populace either through ignorance or misinformation, continues to vote in people who do nothing to better their lives but instead coddle the poor and appease the lazy...HAHA CA.

When I used to tell people I was from CA in WA they laughed and usually said, "sucks to be you".

Seriously people in this state need to stop crying and just enact the change by voting all the democrats and life long politicians out. I do not care if you vote Republican or not but for Gods sake, get rid of the democrats already.

Rant done. Thank you.

chris
08-02-2010, 4:19 PM
See this is where "being in the know" can hurt you. As a 16 yr criminal defense atty, I am WELL versed in the actual court cases involved and our "progress" of late. Unfortunately, NOTHING mentioning in ANY ruling by ANY court STATE or FEDERAL even comes close to saying that states can't put "reasonable" regulations on rifles (i.e. AW's). And California maintains that it is doing just that. . . putting a "reasonable" regulation on AW's. Well w/i the state's purview. Keep those bullet buttons handy! You're children and GRANDCHILDREN are going to need them in CA. (hate to be the bearer of reality)

do you have proof other than your experience that brings you to this conclusion other than this state is like a box of Fruit Loops?

with the two landmark cases in the last two years (Heller, and McDonald) you can say for certain that we will have to keep BB's and so on for our children and grandchildren. that's a far stretch considering what the CGF, CRPA and NRA are doin since these two cases.

i'm saying that you are pessimistic at best. i have seen our 2A rights go right down the drain here. and now with Heller, and McDonald on our side. i'm betting the opposite to your prediction.

Hunt
08-02-2010, 6:06 PM
It's going to be a tough row to hoe.
McDonald was only 5-4.
Many in this country and government don't give a damn about the Constitution or our rights, obviously four were sitting on the SCOTUS.
As soon as Obummer grants amnesty, there will be 40, 50, 60 million potential votes against our cause.
Count me in for the fight, but I'm just saying........

the most important thing is to keep a conservative SCOTUS as we can see these politicians today don't give a damn about the Constitution. 5 Sotomayors and there is big trouble.

Secret
08-02-2010, 7:29 PM
What do you see?

man... it would blow your mind away if i told you :p